Thread: The Nature of Dream Control

Anyone have any thoughts on whether emotions are something that require your attention to exist, or whether they they are independent entities?

I really feel that the initial sections were very interesting and worthwhile.

Later additions, delving deeper into Magic, Psychic Energy, Living dream characters etc just rankle me.

It almosts feels like one of those cults where your told a few things that seem to make sense about your general well being, http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...07&postcount=1 then BAM suddenly your souls are made from ancient space aliens and Tom Cruise is your best pal. http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...&postcount=175

My understanding is that the primary sections of DV are focused on practical aspects and science of lucid dreaming, which should be respected.

It seems to me that vunerable newbies, filled with the wonder and awe of lucid dreaming, might be all to ready to attach spiritual significance to dreams. Something they might not do when armed with more information and experience.

Personal beliefs, spirituality, religion and all that stuff is absolutely fine, but there is a dedicated space for discussion of the same.

Originally Posted by midgitmage

Anyone have any thoughts on whether emotions are something that require your attention to exist, or whether they they are independent entities?

Independent I think, but can be influenced to a small extent. Usually they're influenced only by suppression, though.

Originally Posted by moonshine

It seems to me that vunerable newbies, filled with the wonder and awe of lucid dreaming, might be all to ready to attach spiritual significance to dreams. Something they might not do when armed with more information and experience.

Personal beliefs, spirituality, religion and all that stuff is absolutely fine, but there is a dedicated space for discussion of the same.

QFT +1

Oh uh.. Moonshine and Arutard made it in this beautiful thread. Please don't argue with them as they will spam it and ruin it completely.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Oh uh.. Moonshine and Arutard made it in this beautiful thread. Please don't argue with them as they will spam it and ruin it completely.

They both had good points though.

Originally Posted by DrewFever

They both had good points though.

What, that people aren't smart enough the think for themselves?

Even the more questionable aspects of this thread were valid metaphors for dream control.

Besides, it's too late to debate that now. This thread has been hovering around the top page of this subsection for over a year now, and with over 17000 views, the "damage" is already done.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

What, that people aren't smart enough the think for themselves?

Even the more questionable aspects of this thread were valid metaphors for dream control.

Besides, it's too late to debate that now. This thread has been hovering around the top page of this subsection for over a year now, and with over 17000 views, the "damage" is already done.

A significant proportion of the discussions are unquestionably "beyond dreaming".

DV makes an effort to seperate what science has proven and understood from what amounts to - at best - "personal belief systems".

In my view we shouldn't be contaminating the main boards with this these kind of discussions. People will be even less likely to accept Lucid Dreaming as legitimate if the boards are contaminated with Spiritual and Cultish chatter.

DV has provided a sub-forum for those who wish to indulge in the same.
The respectful thing to do would be to make use of that forum, instead of taking a strange delight (ChaybaChayba!) in the fact that some benefit of the doubt has been given. Up until now.

Originally Posted by moonshine

DV makes an effort to seperate what science has proven and understood from what amounts to - at best - "personal belief systems".

Well, as a side note it have to be said, that Lucid dreaming is (at the best) barely proven (but not universally recognized) and obviously not understood at all. And most of the "skeptics" when judging this or that thing on this topic are actually do not really know the science between dreams or brain, and have to rely on personal belief system which may or may not resemble actual state of matters in said science fields.

Originally Posted by moonshine

A significant proportion of the discussions are unquestionably "beyond dreaming".

DV makes an effort to seperate what science has proven and understood from what amounts to - at best - "personal belief systems".

In my view we shouldn't be contaminating the main boards with this these kind of discussions. People will be even less likely to accept Lucid Dreaming as legitimate if the boards are contaminated with Spiritual and Cultish chatter.

DV has provided a sub-forum for those who wish to indulge in the same.
The respectful thing to do would be to make use of that forum, instead of taking a strange delight (ChaybaChayba!) in the fact that some benefit of the doubt has been given. Up until now.

I get a kick out of how much this thread offends you.

Try using this next time...

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I get a kick out of how much this thread offends you.

Try using this next time...

Offended? I'd say concerned was more accurate.

To be honest, I think that what you really get a kick out of is the fact that your clearly intentional bait and switch seems to have muddied the waters enough to keep this thread from being moved.

Which, lets be honest, isn't the same as validating talk of dream walkers etc.

I found this site about vitamin B6
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=108

And I quote near the bottom:

What are toxicity symptoms for vitamin B6?

Imbalances in nervous system activity have been shown to result from high levels of supplemental vitamin B6 intake. These imbalances do not seem to occur until supplementation exceeds 2 grams per day. The National Academy of Sciences has set a Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 milligrams for adults 19 years and older, largely based on the issue of imbalanced nervous system activity described above.

and i am over 19, so i guess it means only 100 mg a day, and that 2,000 milligrams is when u notice those imbalances, so i think if you are wanting to try vitamin b6, i would say just take the 100 mg pill, and maybe like a glass of apple juice and a banana before you go to sleep, and see that works

...just my guess cuz i really wanted to try b6 but i was afraid of toxicity levels and having it mess up my body. but looks good with what they said any comments?

Lawl, what?

wrong section posted in had too many DreamView windows up lol

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Oh uh.. Moonshine and Arutard made it in this beautiful thread. Please don't argue with them as they will spam it and ruin it completely.

The fact is, if you can't accept criticism or debate theres a place where you can discuss your beliefs.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=46286

'Beyond Dreaming' was not created for debate, but rather, it exists for members who believe in the sort of topics that fit into its scope (such as OBEs, dream precognition, astral projection, etc.) to have peaceful discussions amongst themselves. I understand many of us don't believe in the material that fits within that forum (myself included) but enough people do that we have given them their own forum to discuss it. For those who doubt and would prefer debate the truth behind such phenomenon, I would suggest using other forums (such as 'Extended Discussion'), since, quite frankly, you're not discussing anything "beyond dreaming" but rather using science and natural laws instead.

This forum is not here so that members who feel like denouncing every topic that appears in here can do so. If you want to state your beliefs (or lack thereof) on a subject then do so in a civil and considerate manner; do not continue to create needless fights. There is no reason to continue to tell every member who posts in the Beyond Dreaming forum about astral projection [for example] that it doesn't exist. This forum is for those people who believe in that stuff to discuss it peacefully and without condemnation. Remember that.

DV moderators have been respectful enough to provide this service.
Its a shame that certain posters don't have enough respect to make use of the facility.

For some reason the MODS have yet to move this thread.

In the meantime, if you insist on posting in these forums, you're assertions are open to criticism and debate.

Lol, I really appreciate you bumping this thread for me Moonshine. They say there's no such thing as bad publicity. I say everything requires your attention to exist.

You'll be happy to know I'm working on a "clean" version of this tutorial. In the meantime, if you'd care to debate any aspects of this thread you don't agree with, please feel free to do so. But to bash the whole thing on principle alone makes me suspect you're harboring resentment because of the argument we had over non-rem dreams.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Lol, I really appreciate you bumping this thread for me Moonshine. They say there's no such thing as bad publicity. I say everything requires your attention to exist.

Not sure of your point cusp. Though if you are actually happy I've bumped this thread, then you seem to prove one of my points.

Originally Posted by moonshine

To be honest, I think that what you really get a kick out of is the fact that your clearly intentional bait and switch seems to have muddied the waters enough to keep this thread from being moved.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

You'll be happy to know I'm working on a "clean" version of this tutorial. In the meantime, if you'd care to debate any aspects of this thread you don't agree with, please feel free to do so. But to bash the whole thing on principle alone makes me suspect you're harboring resentment because of the argument we had over non-rem dreams.

Thanks for your permission.
Clearly the aspects of the thread I don't like are the beyond dreaming topics.
As well as the sly way they were introduced.

I enjoyed our debate over NREM dreams.
There nothing wrong with having your assertions challenged and tested.

Something a few "believers" could do with learning.

For some reason the MODS have yet to move this thread.

Because the tutorial itself is fairly grounded. It just left openings for some BD topics. It's a good tutorial and has been helpful to me in LDing, as it has to many others. If it was moved to BD most people would not have gotten that. (I wouldn't have.) It's not as if BD topics can't come up in the other threads, (if it relates to the thread,)! They just shouldn't be a main topic of discussion, I should think.


But I agree that NS/DW are fairly off topic here.

Originally Posted by spockman

Because the tutorial itself is fairly grounded. It just left openings for some BD topics. It's a good tutorial and has been helpful to me in LDing, as it has to many others. If it was moved to BD most people would not have gotten that. (I wouldn't have.) It's not as if BD topics can't come up in the other threads, (if it relates to the thread,)! They just shouldn't be a main topic of discussion, I should think.


But I agree that NS/DW are fairly off topic here.

The way I read the thread, it was the Cusps deliberate intent to lay the ground work before bringing in the dream walker whammy.

I agree with you on the original tutorial. In point of fact, I'm sure there's sensible advice in other dreaming sub-cultures. The trick is to extract the useful information, and to assess it rationally.

The whole thread need not be moved. Just the suspect posts.

Give it a rest Moonshine, nobody's moving anything.

I didn't plan this as a nefarious plot to sneak in the concept of shared dreaming. But I don't feel that I came up with those ideas for dream control on my own as much as I'd like to take credit for them. So I had to mention where the inspiration came from. I wanted to be honest even at the risk of sounding crazy.

You're starting to sound like one of those militant vegans who try to browbeat everyone into seeing things their way.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Give it a rest Moonshine, nobody's moving anything.

So are you adding clairvoyance to your list of powers now?

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I didn't plan this as a nefarious plot to sneak in the concept of shared dreaming. But I don't feel that I came up with those ideas for dream control on my own as much as I'd like to take credit for them. So I had to mention where the inspiration came from. I wanted to be honest even at the risk of sounding crazy.

I'm not convinced. Theres a difference between mentioning where you learned the info, and laying out the nightstalkers legend.

...and then dream sharing.
...and psychic energy.
...then magic, shamanism and wizards.

Just sayin'

Originally Posted by The Cusp

You're starting to sound like one of those militant vegans who try to browbeat everyone into seeing things their way.

Uh huh. Burn the heretic.

I look forward to your "clean" tutorial. I honestly think you do yourself a disservice by shoehorning in occult aspects into what might otherwise be very useful advice.

Originally Posted by moonshine

So are you adding clairvoyance to your list of powers now?

In the thousands of years mankind has observed the various mountain ranges on the earth, never once have those mountains gotten up and danced the Macarena. Is it not a logical deduction to assume they are not going to get up and dance the Macarena anytime soon?

Originally Posted by moonshine

I'm not convinced. Theres a difference between mentioning where you learned the info, and laying out the nightstalkers legend.

...and then dream sharing.
...and psychic energy.
...then magic, shamanism and wizards.

Just sayin'

I don't recall mentioning anything about psychic energy. As for the rest, sure, but you present it out of context. The only point I was trying to make was that those rules of dreaming seem apply to the waking world as well, which would imply that the waking world is nothing more than a dream.

As much as you may claim to disagree with that statement, here you are using those very rules in a RL scenario against me.

1. Everything requires you attention to exist.

That also implies that if you don't give something attention, it will cease to exist.

You're only focusing on the more outlandish sounding aspects of this thread while ignoring the more pertinent points. I've invited you to debate these things, but you doggedly refuse to acknowledge anything beyond your narrow point of view.

2. The more attention you give something, the more related detail it creates.

In every post you've made so far, you're just repeating yourself, adding nothing new or relevant to the discussion.

3. All change and new elements introduced strictly follow archetypes or schemata.

You're attempting to transmute this thread into something it's not by invoking the generalized archetype of psychic phenomena with all it's associated ridicule.

4. Strong emotions have a devastating effect on shaping your immediate environment.

Your derisive attitude is the icing on the cake.


Well done! You might have succeeded against someone not as well versed in the subjective nature of reality, but in this thread you attempts are akin to pissing in the ocean.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

The only point I was trying to make was that those rules of dreaming seem apply to the waking world as well, which would imply that the waking world is nothing more than a dream.

If that is truly your only point, then this thread should most definitely
be moved to Beyond Dreaming.

Originally Posted by moonshine

If that is truly your only point, then this thread should most definitely
be moved to Beyond Dreaming.

Then why don't you try holding your breath until that happens?

Originally Posted by moonshine

DV makes an effort to seperate what science has proven and understood from what amounts to - at best - "personal belief systems".

This thread is at heart all about personal belief systems. They are an integral part of dreaming, and you can't study dreaming without taking that into account.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Love your thread Cusp, it only keeps getting better and better, this is were all the true info on dreaming can be found! This is on a totally different level than all those other tutorials, compared to them you're like the Einstein of dreaming and they are the scientists from the dark ages.. be careful to not get burned on the stake someday tho.. lol.

Your being burned at the stake analogy is very fitting all of a sudden. Moonshine is certainly trying...

how do i redream a dream ????. Please reply xxXxX