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    Thread: The Nature of Dream Control

    1. #1
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      The Nature of Dream Control

      I believe there are but two simple rules that govern and dictate the shape every single aspect of dreaming. I believe this holds the key to the true nature of dream control, and that understanding it leads to much more frequent lucid dreams as well.

      I'm also beginning to suspect that this rule applies to the waking world as well, and that the dream control skills mastered through understanding of this concept can be used to influence the waking world. I expect this to be demonstratable, not as a physical proof, but as something that can be experienced.

      1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.

      2. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on.


      It sounds overly simple, but the implications are infinitely complex. Every single dream unfolds according to those two rules without exception. This isn't anything new, but something you've been doing all along without being aware of it. It may not be clear at first, but like one of those hidden pictures you have to look at cross eyed, it eventually jumps out at you. You just have to learn how to see it.

      I have a lot to say on this subject, and hardly know where to begin. I'll be making a series of posts where I try to expand on various aspects and applications, many of which may have small exercises, tasks or questions. I'll of course try to answer any questions in the meantime.

      Either this will completely change the way you dream, or I'm completely nuts. I'm anxious to find out which, so feedback and participation will be greatly appreciated.


      I want to note that strong emotions have an overwhelming role in shaping dreams, much like a colored lens. Emotions are still something you pay attention to, but their effects are so dramatic I feel they deserve a special mention.

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      1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.


      While this may seem obvious, it's still one of the most basic principles of dreaming. The only things that exist in a dream are things that you are aware of. It's not complete world that you wander around in and explore. As soon as you stop paying attention to something and forget about it, it ceases to exist. If you are in a closed room and can't see the outside, then the outside doesn't exist. When you open to door to go outside, it could lead anywhere, into space or hell or the city of the mole people.

      The point is, nothing exists in your dreams until you become aware of it. Much like Schrodinger's Cat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

      This can be a useful tool I've used effectively in the past to deal enemies while lucid. If you don't pay something any attention, it will cease to exist. Kind of like when your parents told you as a kid to just ignore whoever is bothering you (I hate it when they're right!).

      The skill to be learned here is to learn what things you pay attention to. Ask different people who walked down the same street what they saw, and a bird watcher would tell you about the rare wood pecker he saw, a child would tell you about the playground they passed, your wife would tell you about those shoes on sale, and I would tell you about that girl in the short skirt. What are the things that captivate your attention, and how do these things make you feel? How do they affect your life?

      Some things you pay attention to are beneficial, and some are detrimental. If you are prone to only noticing the bad in people, then interacting with people is going to be a pain in the ass. If you focus more on the good in people, then it can be a rewarding experience.

      You have to learn to selectively ignore the things that don't do you any good, and focus on those things that accomplish your goals. During a dream, the effects of doing so are quite drastic, but practicing this while awake will have echoed results in your dreams, as well as be beneficial to you on several levels in RL.
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      2. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on.

      The first rule determines the content of your dreams, this one determines how much of that content is going to be in you dreams.

      The key to using this rule to your advantage is balance. Too much attention can pull you in like a black hole, creating a universe of detail which can also captivate your attention, further aggravating the situation. On the other hand, if you don't pay elements in your dreams enough attention, they become unstable in accordance with the first rule of dreaming, that things need your attention to exist.

      There are many "traps" in dreaming that capture your attention, distracting you with unnecessary detail. A good example is a tooth dream. You notice something wrong with your teeth, take a closer look, and then find more things wrong with them the more you look. This is something you don't want to get trapped in, but this kind of extreme can be used to your advantage. By focusing more on the positive and useful elements you will overwrite the dream scene with new detail. The degree of change depends on what you focus on (first rule) and how much you focus (second rule).

      Let's take a closer look at the second half of this rule now. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on. Initially I thought there would be a great many things vying for your attention which had a culmulative effect on shaping the dream. But in practice there were very few main elements, and the links between them were very straightforward.

      The detail that arises from your increased attention or focus is formed by mental associations in your mind in relation to the element of your focus. These mental associations can take many forms, some direct, some abstract, like associated memories tied to a place or object. But this doesn't mean you have to settle for random associations. There are always unlimited ways to zoom your focus, even when there are relatively few elements to choose from.

      Say you were to focus on a physical object. You could focus on what it is, what it's used for. You could focus on it's age, history, previous owner. You could focus on it's texture or what it's made of. Or you could use it to reach related memories, perhaps ones with useful elements you could use or expand on. Try each of those perspectives while experiencing strong emotions and you can tweak the flavor of your dream even further. Each of these approaches to the same element will yield different yet reliably predictable results.
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      A Deeper Look at the Effect of Emotions

      Again, I feel emotions deserve a special mention. I'm assuming for the moment that emotions are something that require your attention to exist as well. But I'm not too sure about that at all, and the emotional influence may turn out a third rule. Anyone have any thoughts on weather emotions are something that require your attention to exist, or whether they they are independent entities?

      Emotions are like a filter or like a color lens. Each emotion shapes your dreams in predictable ways, affecting both your surroundings and the behavior of DCs. Anger will cause harsh colors and sharp angles, and my cause DCs to fight or fear you. The effects of fear are obvious, painfully so in dreams.

      Both this Emotional technique and the the Attention technique can be used independently, or in combination with each other. Sometimes it may be better to use one technique over the other. The emotional technique won't change the physical elements as drastically as the Attention technique, but will change the look, feel and mood of the dream, as well as influence DC behavior.

      By practicing this you will begin to notice that DCs are puppets and you are the puppet master, only your emotions are the strings. You can influence the way DCs act, and the types of things they say, but not what they say. It's interesting to note that people in RL react the same way in the presence of strong emotions as do DCs. After the confidence and practice gained from using this in dreams, it would stand to reason that this could be used to influence people in RL as well. It seems people do this all the time anyways, but very clumsily for the most part.

      You must be capable of being able to summon up any emotion at will, and not let the ones that arise naturally to rule you. The benefits of positive emotions are obvious, but even the so called negative emotions have their uses. Anger can often make thing go your way. Even fear could be used to lure someone close, then you switch to a confident rage. But you would have to actually feel the fear, not feign it. And always make sure you are in control of the emotions, not the other way around.

      Strong emotions are best as well. So strong they radiate out from you, or perhaps vibrate would be a more appropriate term. I think this part ties into Aquanina's work with High Vibrational Frequency.

      This can be practiced in dreams, or in RL like a reality check. As with the previous parts, these things become more apparent in RL after you become accustomed to seeing the dramatic effect they have in dreams.

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      Schemas and AI

      I was going to expand on Archetypes, Schemas, and Artificial Intelligenge to try to give a better understanding of the types of associations that are made when new detail is formed as a result of your attention. But it turn out Archetypes are a type of Schema, along with stereotypes, social roles, and worldviews. Of particular interest inception of the Schema concept.

      The following article is from the Wikipedia entry on Schemas.

      The original concept of schemata is linked with that of reconstructive memory as proposed and demonstrated in a series of experiments by Bartlett (1932). By presenting participants with information that was unfamiliar to their cultural backgrounds and expectations and then monitoring how they recalled these different items of information (stories, etc.), Bartlett was able to establish that individuals' existing schemata and stereotypes influence not only how they interpret 'schema-foreign' new information but also how they recall the information over time. One of his most famous investigations involved asking participants to read a Native American folk tale, "The War of the Ghosts," and recall it several times up to a year later. All the participants transformed the details of the story in such a way that it reflected their cultural norms and expectations, i.e. in line with their schemata. The factors that influenced their recall were:

      * Omission of information that was considered irrelevant to a participant;
      * Transformation of some of the detail, or of the order in which events etc were recalled; a shift of focus and emphasis in terms of what was considered the most important aspects of the tale;
      * Rationalisation: details and aspects of the tale that would not make sense would be 'padded out' and explained in an attempt to render them comprehensible to the individual in question;
      * Cultural shifts: The content and the style of the story were altered in order to appear more coherent and appropriate in terms of the cultural background of the participant.

      Bartlett's work was crucially important in demonstrating that long-term memories are neither fixed nor immutable but are constantly being adjusted as our schemata evolve with experience. In a sense it supports the existentialist view that we construct our past and present in a constant process of narrative/discursive adjustment, and that much of what we 'remember' is actually confabulated (adjusted and rationalised) narrative that allows us to think of our past as a continuous and coherent string of events, even though it is probable that large sections of our memory (both episodic and semantic) are irretrievable to our conscious memory at any given time.

      Further work on the concept of schemas was conducted by Brewer and Treyens (1981) who demonstrated that the schema-driven expectation of the presence of an object was sometimes sufficient to trigger its erroneous recollection. An experiment was conducted where participants were requested to wait in a room identified as an academic's study and were later asked about the room's contents. A number of the participants recalled having seen books in the study whereas none were present. Brewer and Treyens concluded that the participants' expectations that books are present in academics' studies were enough to prevent their accurate recollection of the scenes.


      For starters, lets look at the factors that influenced recall.

      * Omission of information.
      First rule, without your attention, things can't exist

      * Transformation of some of the detail; a shift of focus and emphasis in terms of what was considered the most important aspects of the tale;
      Again, a combination of the first and second rule, and your most powerful tool in dream control.

      * Rationalisation: details and aspects of the tale that would not make sense would be 'padded out' and explained in an attempt to render them comprehensible to the individual in question;
      Second rule, attention creates detail.

      * Cultural shifts: The content and the style of the story were altered in order to appear more coherent and appropriate in terms of the cultural background of the participant.
      This sounds like the effect emotions have on dreams. Is it possible different cultures have an identifying emotional state?

      These factors responsible for flaws inconsistencies in long term memory just happen to be the tools of dream control! The links to memory make me wonder if dreams are really dynamic memories kept alive by our attention.


      And now for an Artificial Intelligence approach. A binary yes or no system may be easier to picture than fancy notions like Schemata.

      Consider training an artificial neural network to understand language, starting with a concept like tree. You could manually create links to words like grows, leaves, branches. Alternatively, you expose the network repeated instances of trees until it learns on it's own. Links to words like outside would be formed, but not all instances of trees would necessarily be outside, some may be indoors, so another link to indoors is formed. But the majority of trees being outside, the path to "outside" gets used more and gains weight, becomes more substantial. The more connections or paths your word has, then better the understanding your AI will have.

      You have to learn to travel those weighted paths or synapses without getting lost within their endless nature.

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      I would like some feedback on this. I could go on and on, but if nobody cares, I'll keep it to myself.
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      You just proved the existence of the "Somebody else's problem" (SEP) fields.

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      you've had alot on your mind I'd advise people not to skim over this, I had to read that 3 times to grasp what your saying and you've opened the door on a few subjects. emotions- I never really thought that would have effects on your dream, I'll use that to my advantage. attention tech- one thing I've had trouble with is boobs, I like your bad teeth example because that ties in with my problem. when I go to fuck a girl I take off her shirt and her tits are terrible not just small but oddly shaped, the more I'd look at them the worse they would get. I've yet to solve this problem and I think you have the answer but how do I look at the good side with them?
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      I ate a Dream Pie CrazyJelly's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by arby View Post
      You just proved the existence of the "Somebody else's problem" (SEP) fields.
      Hah! Hitchikers guide to the Galaxy FtW!!! xD
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    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by arby View Post
      You just proved the existence of the "Somebody else's problem" (SEP) fields.
      Lol, I used the SEP analogy in relation to this subject elsewhere!

      Quote Originally Posted by Soldier View Post
      one thing I've had trouble with is boobs, I like your bad teeth example because that ties in with my problem. when I go to fuck a girl I take off her shirt and her tits are terrible not just small but oddly shaped, the more I'd look at them the worse they would get. I've yet to solve this problem and I think you have the answer but how do I look at the good side with them?
      The way excessive attention works is kind of like tunnel vision. You zoom in and it creates lots of related detail. I've been thinking about how to do the opposite of this, and I think it would be using Peripheral Vision. Instead of focusing one one element, try to take in as much of the scene as possible. I've yet to experiment extensively with this, but if my theory is correct, it using your peripheral vision should keep things more stable.

      In relation to your boob specific problem, there are many associations in your mind with the concept of "boob". They can be nasty like in you dreams, with associations like oddly shaped, wrinkly, veiny, ect. You could view it in a reproductive role, with associations such as mild, child, reproduction, ect. Or you could go with aesthetic qualities, firm, round, bouncy. Try to follow the links that take you where you want to go without taking any wrong turns.

      You could also pay attention to other dream elements that have similar properties as you'd like to see in your boobs. Perhaps ripe fruit, water ballons, or... uh... fluffy pillows?

      Try not focusing on things as a whole, but only on selective qualities that you want to amplify.
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      After a lot experimentation, I have some thoughts on how this works in practice.

      There seems to be a more general control, rather than specific control. Say I wanted to summon a monster with 6 arms, 8 eyes, purple fur, hooves and a tail. It most likely wouldn't work. But I could summon a general monster, and then tweak it's characteristics until becomes like I want.

      It also seems to work more reliably when you focus on your goal, but not how you accomplish it. First of all, it's really hard to know where to begin to make something happen. When you have infinite possibilities at your disposal, it's hard to pick just one. By focusing on what you want, the "how" will take care of it's self.


      Back in the Real World

      I've been keeping an eye out for this process in action in the waking world, and I'm beginning to see it happening more and more. I've been a little shy in practicing this type of dream control in RL, mainly because I feel bad about manipulating people like that.

      The other day on the bus, this woman had caught me checking out the girls on the bus. Not wanting to seem like a perv, I figured this would be a good time to reset my attention. So I focused in on the first thing I noticed, the yellow hand bars on the bus. Actually I just focused on the color yellow, zooming in my attention like I do in my dream. Immediately the yellow color became 2-3 times brighter than it was originally. After that I began to see bright yellow everywhere, where I hadn't noticed it before. People wearing yellow outside the bus, yellow on the store fronts, just everywhere. There was so much yellow around me, it no longer seemed real, but dream like. It just didn't seem possible that there would be that much yellow around, it was like a tooth dream gone bad, only I was pulled into a sea of yellow!

      One application of this kind of dream control over people I don't feel bad about using, is flirting. I've never been much good at that, but now it's a whole new ball game. Things like how to capture and direct a girl's attention are so much easier now. Before it was like playing a game where I didn't know the rules, now it's like a game of Calvin Ball, where I make up the rules as I go along so that things turn out in my favor.

      Another application I not sure I should go through with is at work. My partner at work is hard to get along with. He wasn't in yesterday, and I worked with another guy who's partner didn't show. We were both happy to have a break from the people we work with. Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't switch partners. Using this technique, I could make it happen easily with only a few words here and there, without anyone that I was the one that made it happen. But just because I can change something doesn't mean I should. Would things really improve if I went ahead with it? Asking directly to switch partners would cause a lot of tension at work, and the boss probably wouldn't do it just to spite me. But this subtle approach to change is very tempting.

      First off, I want to mention an article I came across (which I can't find at the moment) which supports my dreaming/awake link. It said that the dreaming state persists even while awake. So while you dream, you are just dreaming. But while you are awake, you are awake + dreaming. It would suggest dreaming is the totality of existence. Anyone see anything about that? I've had too many beers to find it right now.


      Going back to the notion that your dreams are formed by sum of your attention, where you direct your attention while dreaming has a direct influence. But there is also a residual spillover effect from where you direct your attention in the waking world. This spillover can be from the that day's events, or events deep in your past.

      Which raises the question "How much can you pay attention to at once?" Or what is the maximum number of things that it is possible to pay attention to? For an indirect, roundabout answer, I'd like to introduce the notion of The MonkeySphere. The following is a very entertaining article on the subject.

      It also sheds some light on the behavior of DCs, and how we view them.

      http://www.cracked.com/article_14990...keysphere.html
      Last edited by panta-rei; 03-09-2009 at 11:01 PM.

    12. #12
      Member Mini Man56's Avatar
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      I'm WAY too lazy to read all that, but I saw the two rules at the top and how you think it might affect real life. In fact, I use this method a lot, and it IS a lot like dream control. If you're intrested in mastering life control, (yeah, not dream control, LIFE control) rent the movie called "The Secret." It explains EVERYTHING. Trust me, it will chande your life! Now don't think I'm crazy, I'm not saying things insta-poof like in dreams, and your still not gonna be able to fly, but just look into it.
      What if I told you that I am dreaming right now?
      That your whole life is a lie?
      That the laws of physics as you know them are incorrect?

      Furthermore, what would you do if I told you I'm going to wake up as soon as you finish reading my signature?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mini Man56 View Post
      I'm WAY too lazy to read all that, but I saw the two rules at the top and how you think it might affect real life. In fact, I use this method a lot, and it IS a lot like dream control. If you're intrested in mastering life control, (yeah, not dream control, LIFE control) rent the movie called "The Secret." It explains EVERYTHING. Trust me, it will chande your life! Now don't think I'm crazy, I'm not saying things insta-poof like in dreams, and your still not gonna be able to fly, but just look into it.
      OK, I finally watched The Secret. I hadn't before now because I felt I knew what it was about, but I never realized how close it is to my dream theory. A lot of it echoes what I've been trying to say. They beat me to the punch!

      Still, I'd like to scratch a little deeper than that, or at least approach it from another angle. In this case dreaming.

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      Con - sci - ous - ness LucidM!nds's Avatar
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      Sounds interesting...

      So, basically what you're saying is
      I direct my attention to a guitar. Once I give it my attention, it exists because I'm aware of it...Then I can observe the details of the guitar...

      I see a red Fender Stratocaster. It's got six strings, and a mohagany fretboard with sharktooth inlays. 24 frets total, and three humbucking pickups. It's got one volume control, as well as two tone contol knobs on the bottom right side of the body. It's got a whammy bar and a black pick guard

      With the description of said guitar, once could assume I covered the basics like:
      -color (red)
      -Brand (Strat)
      -Manufacturer (Fender)
      -body type (six-string, 24 frets, mohagany fretboard, sharktooth inlays)
      -accessories (whammy bar, volume and tone knobs, pick guard)

      So let's say I want a Gibson instead...

      Here's where Schemata comes in. A Schema is simply a building block that helps build an image in your mind. So let's take "guitar"

      When you think of guitar, what comes to mind?
      Amplifiers Players strings manufacturers
      -half-stack / -Angus Young / -Earnie Ball / -Fender
      -bass amp / -Jimi Page / -DR / -Ibanez
      -effects box /-Slash / -D'ajarrio / -Gibson

      I wanted a gibson, bit I'm paying attention to a Fender. Using the schemea of "guitar" I can customize my guitar the way I want. I already know what a 'Gibson Les Paul' looks like, so I can change the Fender Strat's shape into that of a Gibson. Now let's say I still wanted the sharktooth inlays on my Gibson...Well, just take the inlays (and, pretty much any other desirable feature) and put them on the fretboard of the new guitar you've just made.
      My new guitar:

      I see a gold Gibson Les Paul. It's got six strings, a mohagany fretboard with sharktooth inlays. 24 frets, and two humbucking pickpus. No whammy bar, no pick guard, and two volume and tone knobs each.

      Basically, the details of the object of attention are effected by the amount of information you've accumulated within your schema of said object.

      Does this make sense? Did I understand the subject correctly? Let me know!
      Last edited by LucidM!nds; 04-29-2008 at 07:51 AM.

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      Yes LucidM!nds, I say you've got the gist of it.

      Although I don't know how reliable it would be for fine tuning relatively minor details such as the type of guitar in your scenario. I've been using it in a broader perspective. Like using the Mahogany of the body to create the forest the wood came from, or just using the guitar it's self to summon groupies.

      For instance, I recently had a dream where I was traveling through my own intestines. In the following night's dreams, I was able to use that experience to give a DC who was harassing me a major case of gut rot, effectively incapacitating him.

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      The first part is interesting in that it also relates to real life. Right now Mr. Cusp, you exist in my reality. I see your icon and your posts. As soon as I look away and/or forget about you, you cease to exist in my reality. Though you are funcitoning whereever you are, you, and most of the 6 billion people on this planet DO NOT EXIST. As soon as I give my attention to something, it exists again.

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      Member Mini Man56's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Grassclip View Post
      The first part is interesting in that it also relates to real life. Right now Mr. Cusp, you exist in my reality. I see your icon and your posts. As soon as I look away and/or forget about you, you cease to exist in my reality. Though you are funcitoning whereever you are, you, and most of the 6 billion people on this planet DO NOT EXIST. As soon as I give my attention to something, it exists again.

      I wouldn't say that. He contributes to reality with his attention too, and I doubt he's gonna forget himself. But if NOBODY was paying attention to something, then it would cease to exist.
      What if I told you that I am dreaming right now?
      That your whole life is a lie?
      That the laws of physics as you know them are incorrect?

      Furthermore, what would you do if I told you I'm going to wake up as soon as you finish reading my signature?

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      If someone's actions do not directly influence my life, then they do not exist. Same goes for you. As soon as you forget about this topic, I cease to exist in your world since I have no dirct influence on your decisions in your life.

    19. #19
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      Like someone who thinks they saw a UFO. To them, they know it's real, but to a non believer, it's not. How about people who are undecided? It's kind of like Schrodinger's Cat. I've actually heard a theory that says the reason the government is covering up UFOs is because if the public acknowledged them it would make them more real and they could travel here easier, or something like that. (Just an example, please don't debate UFOs here)

      As you can see for two simple rules, it sure gets complicated pretty fast. The Secret left a lot stuff out. I've been putting off getting into the kind of RL existence confusion above, because it's equivalent aspect in dreaming is Shared Dreaming. And the last thing I want is for this thread to be buried in the beyond dreaming section. I'm going to have to get into that eventually, but I'd like to get a few more constructive posts in on it's dreaming applications before I completely ruin this thread's credibility.
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      Nice one Cusp

    21. #21
      imj
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      I believe there are but two simple rules that govern and dictate the shape every single aspect of dreaming. I believe this holds the key to the true nature of dream control, and that understanding it leads to much more frequent lucid dreams as well.

      I'm also beginning to suspect that this rule applies to the waking world as well, and that the dream control skills mastered through understanding of this concept can be used to influence the waking world. I expect this to be demonstratable, not as a physical proof, but as something that can be experienced.

      1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.

      2. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on.

      It sounds overly simple, but the implications are infinitely complex. Every single dream unfolds according to those two rules without exception. This isn't anything new, but something you've been doing all along without being aware of it. It may not be clear at first, but like one of those hidden pictures you have to look at cross eyed, it eventually jumps out at you. You just have to learn how to see it.

      I have a lot to say on this subject, and hardly know where to begin. I'll be making a series of posts where I try to expand on various aspects and applications, many of which may have small exercises, tasks or questions. I'll of course try to answer any questions in the meantime.

      Either this will completely change the way you dream, or I'm completely nuts. I'm anxious to find out which, so feedback and participation will be greatly appreciated.


      I want to note that strong emotions have an overwhelming role in shaping dreams, much like a colored lens. Emotions are still something you pay attention to, but their effects are so dramatic I feel they deserve a special mention.
      Yes, you are 100% correct. I use emotion, paying attention to items I want to use in the lucid dream to 'create' the lucid dream. No emotion = No lucid dreams.

      IMJ

    22. #22
      Con - sci - ous - ness LucidM!nds's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      Yes LucidM!nds, I say you've got the gist of it.

      Although I don't know how reliable it would be for fine tuning relatively minor details such as the type of guitar in your scenario. I've been using it in a broader perspective. Like using the Mahogany of the body to create the forest the wood came from, or just using the guitar it's self to summon groupies.

      So instead of using the root of a cherry tree to create another cherry tree with different color fruit/leaves, you can use the root to create furniture (perhaps entire buildings) out of cherrywood?
      Last edited by LucidM!nds; 05-01-2008 at 06:59 PM.

    23. #23
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by LucidM!nds View Post
      So instead of using the root of a cherry tree to create another cherry tree with different color fruit/leaves, you can use the root to create furniture (perhaps entire buildings) out of cherrywood?
      You could do both, but the first one sounds easier. It's more of a natural connection.

    24. #24
      Member Wicked's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post

      1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.


      I attest for the truthfulness of this rule. One of my LD tricks to rid of things is to stop thinking about them and distract my mind with other things. That's how I got rid of a tsunami (which is a recurring theme that I usually have problems with) once, by turning my back on it and thinking of other things. Another time, a huge wild dog-like beast was lunging toward me. It missed, and I didn't turn around and didn't think about it. It just never appeared for a second round. It dissapeared.

      EDIT: I forgot to mention, this rule is often a pain in my butt, as it severely limits the speed at which I can fly. I just can't think up new landscape fast enough to keep up, and very rarely does my subconscious does this job for me. Usually I am left with limited speed (and very limited flight ceiling for that matter), although some flying techniques I've read about on this board helped me somewhat in this regard.

      2. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on.


      Incredibly correct as well. In one LD I admired how detailed the world is, that I can closely see the skin pores on the back of my hand, and all the multitude of details on an office desk (including the desk's texture, a plant with small details like leaves, unopened letters lying about, pens etc.) But for the heck of me, I can never remember what I'm wearing in this dreams. That's because I never put any thought into it, I just know that I'm dressed, and that's it. If I put any thought into it, I suspect I will discover I'm naked or something (although in contrast with my childhood dreams/nightmares, being naked in a dream doesn't disturb me in the slightest. The people surrounding me will react in any way to my nakedness only if I will so).
      Last edited by Wicked; 05-02-2008 at 09:03 PM.

    25. #25
      Member Wicked's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      Schemas and AI

      I was going to expand on Archetypes, Schemas, and Artificial Intelligenge to try to give a better understanding of the types of associations that are made when new detail is formed as a result of your attention. But it turn out Archetypes are a type of Schema, along with stereotypes, social roles, and worldviews. Of particular interest inception of the Schema concept.

      The following article is from the Wikipedia entry on Schemas.

      The original concept of schemata is linked with that of reconstructive memory as proposed and demonstrated in a series of experiments by Bartlett (1932). By presenting participants with information that was unfamiliar to their cultural backgrounds and expectations and then monitoring how they recalled these different items of information (stories, etc.), Bartlett was able to establish that individuals' existing schemata and stereotypes influence not only how they interpret 'schema-foreign' new information but also how they recall the information over time. One of his most famous investigations involved asking participants to read a Native American folk tale, "The War of the Ghosts," and recall it several times up to a year later. All the participants transformed the details of the story in such a way that it reflected their cultural norms and expectations, i.e. in line with their schemata. The factors that influenced their recall were:

      * Omission of information that was considered irrelevant to a participant;
      * Transformation of some of the detail, or of the order in which events etc were recalled; a shift of focus and emphasis in terms of what was considered the most important aspects of the tale;
      * Rationalisation: details and aspects of the tale that would not make sense would be 'padded out' and explained in an attempt to render them comprehensible to the individual in question;
      * Cultural shifts: The content and the style of the story were altered in order to appear more coherent and appropriate in terms of the cultural background of the participant.

      Bartlett's work was crucially important in demonstrating that long-term memories are neither fixed nor immutable but are constantly being adjusted as our schemata evolve with experience. In a sense it supports the existentialist view that we construct our past and present in a constant process of narrative/discursive adjustment, and that much of what we 'remember' is actually confabulated (adjusted and rationalised) narrative that allows us to think of our past as a continuous and coherent string of events, even though it is probable that large sections of our memory (both episodic and semantic) are irretrievable to our conscious memory at any given time.

      Further work on the concept of schemas was conducted by Brewer and Treyens (1981) who demonstrated that the schema-driven expectation of the presence of an object was sometimes sufficient to trigger its erroneous recollection. An experiment was conducted where participants were requested to wait in a room identified as an academic's study and were later asked about the room's contents. A number of the participants recalled having seen books in the study whereas none were present. Brewer and Treyens concluded that the participants' expectations that books are present in academics' studies were enough to prevent their accurate recollection of the scenes.

      For starters, lets look at the factors that influenced recall.

      * Omission of information.
      First rule, without your attention, things can't exist

      * Transformation of some of the detail; a shift of focus and emphasis in terms of what was considered the most important aspects of the tale;
      Again, a combination of the first and second rule, and your most powerful tool in dream control.

      * Rationalisation: details and aspects of the tale that would not make sense would be 'padded out' and explained in an attempt to render them comprehensible to the individual in question;
      Second rule, attention creates detail.

      * Cultural shifts: The content and the style of the story were altered in order to appear more coherent and appropriate in terms of the cultural background of the participant.
      This sounds like the effect emotions have on dreams. Is it possible different cultures have an identifying emotional state?

      These factors responsible for flaws inconsistencies in long term memory just happen to be the tools of dream control! The links to memory make me wonder if dreams are really dynamic memories kept alive by our attention.


      And now for an Artificial Intelligence approach. A binary yes or no system may be easier to picture than fancy notions like Schemata.

      Consider training an artificial neural network to understand language, starting with a concept like tree. You could manually create links to words like grows, leaves, branches. Alternatively, you expose the network repeated instances of trees until it learns on it's own. Links to words like outside would be formed, but not all instances of trees would necessarily be outside, some may be indoors, so another link to indoors is formed. But the majority of trees being outside, the path to "outside" gets used more and gains weight, becomes more substantial. The more connections or paths your word has, then better the understanding your AI will have.

      You have to learn to travel those weighted paths or synapses without getting lost within their endless nature.
      OK, the part about schemes was clear, even though I don't see how that's relevant to LDs. But the AI part... it's like it's Chinesse.

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