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    1. #1
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      Violence in lucids

      So why are people against violence in lucid if it's just a dream?
      Studies have shown that mediums like video games actually make people less violent so dreams should be the same.
      Any insight?

    2. #2
      I am become fish pear Abra's Avatar
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      Some people think that hurting dream characters is morally wrong because it is you, not a videogame character, performing the deed in a realistic scenario.

      Personally, since I seek to be the "hero" character in my dreams, I'm not very violent. If I as trying to rid myself of aggression, I'd be more likely to talk it out than to play punching bag.
      Abraxas

      Quote Originally Posted by OldSparta
      I murdered someone, there was bloody everywhere. On the walls, on my hands. The air smelled metallic, like iron. My mouth... tasted metallic, like iron. The floor was metallic, probably iron

    3. #3
      Member Grunkie7's Avatar
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      Just a few things I've heard over time.

      Some think it reflects your inner desires (i.e. you would do it in real life if you could)
      Some think the dream characters and dreamworld is real in some sense (Essentially, it's NOT just a dream)
      Some people think it has the same negative effect on the brain as the real act. (brain thinks its the same as killing a real person)


      Myself, although I have little experience in LDs or LD violence, I don't find anything wrong with fighting/killing. However, I imagine everyone has their own moral limit. If someone tells you how they enjoy slitting DC throats and watching them writhe and bleed to death, you'd probably be a little disturbed no matter what you believe.

    4. #4
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      I don't enjoy the violence so much as the movement and the challenge. Ofter I'll be fighting a DC, and when one of us is about to land blow, we hold back at the last moment, concede a point to the opponent, and start fighting all over again.

      Although I do love slaughtering zombies. No need to feel guilty about killing something that's already dead.

    5. #5
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      I'd rather dream about cute girls, personally.

    6. #6
      Member Jhony's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by iank View Post
      I'd rather dream about cute girls, personally.
      lol.

      I don't do violence in dreams unless it's against someone evil (super hero scenario).

      I guess I'm more of a hero man than a villain.

    7. #7
      無駄だ~! GestaltAlteration's Avatar
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      My personal view is that there truly are no boundaries in lucidity. Everything is a fabrication and therefore not hurting anything. Your one chance to do anything without consequences.

      If I feel the urge to blast someone's head off than I'll do it. They won't much care when I wake up. If anything I see violence as an outlet for pent up feelings in reality, therefore therapeutic.

    8. #8
      Logical Fool
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      My policy is strictly self defense. Anything else makes me feel horrible afterward, regardless of what I think about "reality" at the time.

    9. #9
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      I would submit a number of points for your consideration:

      • Causing harm to a dream character is in itself permissible since there is no actual harm occurring. For that we would need a real person.
      • Thus I would say that most violence visited upon dream characters is acceptable, since in most cases this would be part of scenario much like a video game or a good book or movie. Violence is a fact of life, and if we wish to have a creative dream that mimics the scenarios, dangers, and challenges of life then violence may be a part of that acceptable scenario.
      • However, even violence in fiction can be unacceptable if it passes certain boundaries. That is, if the imagined violence is meant to be a celebratory, titillating, sadistic (not necessarily sexual) affair then it is wrong.
      • The reason it is wrong is not that there is harm occurring, but because the pleasure derived from real imagined suffering is disordered (i.e. it goes against the proper constitution of the human person) just as the pleasure derived from actual suffering is disordered (though the former is less grave than the latter).
      • Therefore, if you want to go Matrix on some DCs, that's fine. But if you want to go Saw or Medieval torturer on them, NO.


      The line between what is just action-adventure fun and what is sadism is each dreamer's to distinguish, since it is the individual who is best able to examine his own conscience. I would say at the least, if one finds oneself enjoying sadism in an LD, even though "it's just a dream" there should be cause for concern.

      One final thought: it also matters what condition the dreaming mind is in. Are you aware enough to make free choices which thus are open to moral investigation? Or are you essentially another set-piece of the dream world, as determined in your actions and your emotions as the scenery. Again, only the individual judging honestly can say.

    10. #10
      I am become fish pear Abra's Avatar
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      I agree with Lux on many points. If you know it's a dream, and are trully lucid, why would you need to kill it? If you are fully lucid, you know it can't hurt you. Besides, it is more constructive to face your shadow in a non-aggressive way (talking it out).

      So, in dreams, if you are fully lucid, you should be violent for sport. The enemy should be something/someone you summoned on purpose (zombies, ninjas, pirates, Chuck Norris, etc.). I also agree on the Matrix vs. Saw point.
      Abraxas

      Quote Originally Posted by OldSparta
      I murdered someone, there was bloody everywhere. On the walls, on my hands. The air smelled metallic, like iron. My mouth... tasted metallic, like iron. The floor was metallic, probably iron

    11. #11
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      It's your mind. If you feel uncomfortable by merely *thinking* violent things in waking life you might feel uneasy in dreams too.

      Some people use the moral statement, I don't care about that. It's all inside my head, there is no moral. There are no other people to hurt.

      Ps. I use LD practice combat too. For remembering techniques and playing different outcomes I prefer to think it as HC imagination training.
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

    12. #12
      with the power of 28!! seeker28's Avatar
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      I prefer to be fairly peaceful in my LDs because violence can be so distracting! I end up forgetting what I wanted to do and spend the whole dream fighting. Sometimes that can be fun (especially at the end of a very frusterating week). But I have other stuff I want to do more than fight and kill.

      And plus, most of the DCs in my dreams are recurring characters. I like to think of them as individual aspects of my mind and personality manifest in a way I can interact with them. And I like to be nice to myself. However, occasionally I do kick everyone's ass!
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    13. #13
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      I think people should do whatever the hell they want in their dreams. I also don't think that DCs are real people or really matter. I also don't think that by damaging a dream character you'll be injuring any part of your brain. I mean, say I summon my liver and hack it to pieces, I doubt I'll be dying of liver failure. There's always the possibility, but I'm not a believer in that.

      So, when I feel like being violent in a lucid I'll be violent, but I usually don't do anything of that nature unless there is an aggressor DC who needs to be taught a lesson.

    14. #14
      King of All Wild Things Tarsier's Avatar
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      The only time I am every violent in my LDs is when I have been shot at by someone, or there are innocent DCs in danger. Yeah, the super hero thing basically.
      LDs since joining DV:
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    15. #15
      Call me Dime if you like. Dimetrodon's Avatar
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      I have no problems with violence in lucids, but, I mean, here's the whole of your subconcious spread out on a map for you, and I'd rather explore it then kill it. Maybe if someone's attacking you, then it's fine, but I think there are better things to do.
      Goals: Fly [] Teleport [x] Have a long conversation with a DC [] Meet my dream guide [] Ride a dinosaur [x] Tour other planets []

    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
      Studies have shown that mediums like video games actually make people less violent..
      Citation? Source, please?

      Stance#1: fine fine fine;

      Stance#2: sick sick sick.

      Is there anyone on this site who is over 15 years old?

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiro View Post
      Is there anyone on this site who is over 15 years old?
      I find that an odd comment? What makes you think so, just for curiosity? are people being immature in general?
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Unelias View Post
      I find that an odd comment?
      Are you kidding? Maybe it's your non-native speaking status..

      But this place is overrun with teenagers.. just check out the "Xmas present" threads..

      In fact, just check out all the threads..

      Kiddies kiddies kiddies.. everywhere.

      Quote Originally Posted by Unelias View Post
      What makes you think so, just for curiosity? are people being immature in general?
      Oh purLEEZE! Can't you get it from just reading? Or are you also a teenager?

    19. #19
      21 lucid PSPSoldier534's Avatar
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      I tend to be violent only when situations push it. Like being threatened with a pistol (Krav Maga pistol disarm ) or when I take out my anger. Same applies to RL, except the taking out anger. Then I just punch my pillow.
      dilds: 19
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    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiro View Post
      Are you kidding? Maybe it's your non-native speaking status..

      But this place is overrun with teenagers.. just check out the "Xmas present" threads..

      In fact, just check out all the threads..

      Kiddies kiddies kiddies.. everywhere.



      Oh purLEEZE! Can't you get it from just reading? Or are you also a teenager?
      Well back here people are quite mature in general. Your behavior doesn't fit in definition of mature in Finnish scope. Maybe in your England it is mature to act like you do and bash every thread in the progress, but not here where I live in.

      You seem to somehow see this thread as black/white thing. I think it is far from it.
      Last edited by Unelias; 12-26-2008 at 11:25 AM.
      Jujutsu is the gentle art. It's the art where a small man is going to prove to you, no matter how strong you are, no matter how mad you get, that you're going to have to accept defeat. That's what jujutsu is.

    21. #21
      Overseer of oneirons Phantasos's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
      So why are people against violence in lucid if it's just a dream?
      The main problem is that no one really knows what dreams are, so when one says "It is just a dream", he is actually saying "It is just no-one-knows-what". At the other side, if dreams are, for example, projections of our inner self then by killing DC you are actually killing a part of yourself.

      So, the main idea is that as we do not really know what dreams are, one should be careful when he is going berserk .

    22. #22
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      I can't hit in dreams. When I dream, nobody can cause physical harm to another person by striking.

      We try, oh God we try. I can swing as hard as I can possibly imagine. Dead on shot, complete connection and everything. The punches slow down more and more the further I go, and by the time I make contact it's like a friendly touch.

      It's frustrating because one of the things I value most is the ability to protect myself and physical strength.

    23. #23
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      How, exactly, can you go jedi on Sith's asses if you're not gonna be violent in any way?
      _______________________________________________
      All I want is to spend the time I normally waste sleeping being a jedi!


    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Chipmunk View Post
      So why are people against violence in lucid if it's just a dream?
      Does that mean you know what dream are so you can say "it's just a dream"? Think twice. You don't know what dreams are, the same as you don't know what waking life is. All you do is to individually believe something. And even if the whole of humanity does believe the same, that doesn't make it a fact.

      Anyway, your behavior reflects yourself, no matter in what situation. So what would it say about yourself when you violate others?
      Last edited by gigaschatten; 01-06-2009 at 11:57 PM.

    25. #25
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      I remember having a non-lucid dream in which I had to defend myself against a knite. In the end, I had a knife to his throat (haha, a knife to a Knite's throats, sounds similar! Knife, knite!) and I was trying the most I could but I wasn't able to dig the knife inside the knife so i gave up and left to do something less violent.

      In brief: Violence that gets to blood isn't so fun

      That was a non-lucid dream so yeah... but getting back on the topic, i think the same way then Lux does. If you enjoy makeing your enemy bleed and getting tortured, well then, let's say you're going to become (or already are) a psichopath for you will gain pleasure in torturing someone living or just the sight of blood...

      For the "just fighting/not so much gross stuff" lots of people do it actually...
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
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      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

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