Originally Posted by moonshine
Wow. Your really throwing everything at the wall with this one.
I can see why you're called ClouD. I think smoke-screen would me more accurate though...
I think I see your problem.
No. Your trying to manufacture a fallacious argument.
The above is your definition, not mine. I don't really care what you've decided the term means.
Time Dilation, to me, and I would suggest to most, describes the actual stretching of time. For example, literally having two minutes worth of experience in 1 minute of real time.
"oh the dream seemed longer than the time it actually took" is a subjective opinion. I have no problem with anyone making such a statement. But it is, for obvious reasons, essentially meaningless.
"The dream actually was longer than the time it actually took" is bullshit.
You're the one desperately trying to mix up subjectivity and actuallity. I never have.
Some salient points:
1) We get 2 hours of REM Sleep, in total, in any one night. Time Dilation aside, anyone claiming to have had 8 hours of dream in any one night is Bullshitting.
2) The Scientific research demonstrated that dream time passes the same as real time.
3) Dreams are difficult to recall in full. They are also disjointed. It is all to obvious how an accurate assesment of time can be flawed.
This does not however = time dilation.
4) Lucid dreams of course have additional clarity. Science has show that lucid dreamers assesment of time passing does concur with reality.
4) Anyone who claims to have experienced 10 years in one night of dreaming is bullshitting. Any variation on the same is bullshit.
Time is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE. Dreams are ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE. One minute cannot be two minutes, simply they are both subjective, sometimes 'one minute' feels longer than a supposed 'one minute', but stretching something subjective is inclusive of the term subjective.
Experience is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE. You just don't get it do you.
"The dream actually was longer than the time it actually took" is bullshit.
I agree, that's impossible, because time is subjective.
"oh the dream seemed longer than the time it actually took" is a subjective opinion. I have no problem with anyone making such a statement. But it is, for obvious reasons, essentially meaningless.
Meaningless? Since time is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE, as well as experience is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE, then the subjective opinion is the only thing that can be taken for any evidence. You cannot objectively analyse whether the opinion is true, nor can you analyse whether someone has 'dilated time' within their dream, because it is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE.
Time is ONLY ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE and ENTIRELY RELATIVE. There is nothing else to it, there is no objectivity that can ever be known. That is actuality.
1. I'm not arguing with you on your cynicism, solely because you can only disbelieve or believe with the inexperience. You cannot say for certain yes or no without stupidity, because it is not certain and can never be unless you end up experiencing. You can only truthfully say you don't know.
2. Time is relative, they can't prove shit all. No-one can. I don't give a fuck what some stupid scientist thinks he has proven, when time is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE.
3. Difficulty is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE. Some people find it hard to remember where they left their keys, some people don't. What you are saying is not fact, at the most it is a stupid belief or disbelief. Time dilation cannot be measured, because it is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE.
4. Not all lucid dreams have greater clarity in comparison to normal dreams, there are hundreds on this website that can attest to that. A lucid dreamer's assessment of time is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE. Science can only determine possibility in this regard, and 'supporting evidence' at best, is completely stupid because and individual's assessment is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE.
5. I don't know. I'm not stupid enough to say it's bullshit because since time and experience is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE, then it is impossible to know without the personal experience.
You're right, I'm talking to a wall. You're an imbecile or a troll, I'm not going to continue this *discussion* since you are acting or are actually so ignorant.
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