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    Thread: Dramatic improvement in dream recall

    1. #1
      Member FateTrader's Avatar
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      Dramatic improvement in dream recall

      Hello oneironauts,

      I just wanted to share with you my very recent experience on dream recall but first I wanted to describe “environment” a little.
      I have been on and off the dream experiments, purely because I have much trouble remembering my dreams and yes I have been trying to keep my dream journal for a while. It did help me a little with the recall but not very much. I’m doing a lot of meditation mostly because I am interested in raising the Kundalini energy. I do a bit of chakra meditation, so hum, and few other types in conjunction, depending on a day I do one or combination I find the most appropriate at the time.

      Recently I have found out about brain stimulation with low current electricity called tDCS, transcranial direct current stimulation. I am quite interested in neuroscience and everything relating to mind and perception so I have done an extensive research and according to many scientific papers from around the world it is regarded as quite safe method with no side effects, it has been known for over 100 years but recently it is getting a new momentum, there is a lot of research going on. Benefits include treating depression, improving memory, improving cognitive abilities and much more. Electric current by flowing through the brain causes slight changes or increase in neural activity. There is a lot more to it but I am going to stop here and come back to the subject. I have decided to make myself the device and try it.

      After using this device for few weeks I can say it did make my depression go away and I feel much happier. But the one interesting effect what it did to me is that I started to remember much more dreams and I have to say a lot more not just few. They are also very clear, not hazy and thorn to pieces as I used to have. I have changed electrode montage recently from depression to memory and learning and this has really made a difference in dream recall.

      I will keep using this montage now to find out how much improvement in dreams I can get. If anyone is interested you can find a lot of info just googling tdcs diy and parts required to make it are really cheap.
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    2. #2
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      I have done an extensive research and according to many scientific papers from around the world it is regarded as quite safe method with no side effects
      Can you show us that research? Not trying to start an argument, but just recently we had scientists raising concerns about DYI tdcs devices. The thing is, we don't know the full extent of possible side effects/risks inherent to them. Especially like the article points out, about them being used without proper knowledge, which could up in a very bad way.

      Great that it works for you, but I wouldn't go out and recommend people to use tdcs to improve dream recall
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      Quote Originally Posted by nito89 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by zoth00 View Post
      You have to face lucid dreams as cooking:
      Stick it in the microwave and hope for the best?
      MMR (Mental Map Recall)- A whole new way of Recalling and Journaling your dreams
      Trying out MILD? This is how you become skilled at it.

    3. #3
      Member FateTrader's Avatar
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      Did I recommend anything? I merely stated my own observations and if anyone wants to try it it is his own choice.

      Scientists raising concerns, but of course they will. Some will be genuine concerns about people and some will be also genuine concerns but for other reasons like charging lots of money for the sessions at the clinic. By the way you can find a lot about doctors already using it. There was recently a paper issued asking government for taking control of the matter. Anyway you can find out scientific papers what is required and how to build it and there is no magic or any special knowledge required to do it. This is the whole reason why it is not in the spotlight, big medical companies can not make enough money from it. It is just to simple and cheap to make and does not cost much to use it just the price of the batteries.

      But if you so believe in their good will and honesty about their concerns, what does it tell you when decades ago first time was proposed to use amalgam fillings for teeth and at first it was by many of them regarded as an absurd, after all it contains a lot of mercury, the most poisonous substance to human body. But never the less it was introduced and used on us for many years and still is. This is just one example.

      You want some information here it is, first some articles:
      The Crimson White | Direct stimulation may increase cognitive performance
      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/ma....html?hpw&_r=0
      Zapping your brain enhances your love of classic art - health - 31 October 2013 - New Scientist
      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/sc...ind.html?_r=1&
      Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation and Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation in Consultation-Liaison Psychiatry - TMS Therapy in Los Angeles
      The Hidden Costs of Cognitive Enhancement - Wired Science
      Don’t try this at home: Researchers use tDCS to release your brain’s strongest opioid painkillers | ExtremeTech
      Frontiers | Making long-term memories in minutes: a spaced learning pattern from memory research in education | Frontiers in Human Neuroscience
      Shinzen's Blog: Meet My New Girlfriend: tDCS
      http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/201...ctrochemistry/
      https://googledrive.com/host/0B_K26Q..._the_zone.html
      £500 electric shock machine can boost learning and memory - but scientists worry it could be misused | Mail Online
      Amping Up Brain Function: Transcranial Stimulation Shows Promise in Speeding Up Learning: Scientific American
      DARPA Study Uses Video Game to Research tDCS, Finds More Amps Mean More Frags
      Neuroscience: Brain buzz : Nature News
      Servier | Transcranial direct current stimulation in the treatment of depression | Medicographia

      here you can find tons of scientific papers on it
      tdcs - PubMed - NCBI
      IEEE Xplore - SearchResult

      and some more here
      http://www.trans-cranial.com/research/index.php

      There is much more but you will have to find it yourself.

      BY NO MEANS I DO ENCOURAGE ANYONE. DO WHAT YOU WILL IT IS YOUR LIFE.
      Last edited by FateTrader; 12-02-2013 at 02:03 AM.
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    4. #4
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      Maybe I sounded a bit blunt, (and sorry if I did!) but rest assured I wasn't trying to dismiss the value of your input
      My concern is more about the fact that DYI poses some risks especially for people who tend to use these devices without proper knowledge about their possible side effects or proper management of the equipment. Because the technology itself fascinates me as much as the next guy: there's is a thread hidden around DV which talks about neuro-modulation and it's possible use on lucid dreaming.

      Maybe in a few years we will all be using it ^^
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      Quote Originally Posted by nito89 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by zoth00 View Post
      You have to face lucid dreams as cooking:
      Stick it in the microwave and hope for the best?
      MMR (Mental Map Recall)- A whole new way of Recalling and Journaling your dreams
      Trying out MILD? This is how you become skilled at it.

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      No problem Zoth I was pretty defensive myself,

      I understand it does sound very worrying to put some home made "electric shocker" on your head. Once again I don't encourage anyone to do so. I am just so very happy with my results that I wanted to share them with everyone. Most likely this method of brain stimulation will never become very popular because there is just not enough money to make for the companies. But in last year or two there are popping out some companies who try to put it on the market, the most recent one is FOC.US - transcranial direct current stimulation for gamers they aim in computer gamers market. I have not tried it simply because it is a bit overpriced at the moment $249 a piece. This is the reason for DIY it costed me only about $30 to make in parts. I am just wondering how much of it is a placebo effect, it does what I want it to do but who knows if it is just me anyway even if this is placebo effect I am happy with the results.

      This night I remembered my dreams again and I am so happy about it, no lucidity as yet thugh. I had only 3 LDs I remember and one of them was super vivid kind of a hallucination dream or a matrix style if you will. I saw, felt smelled touched everything in it as in real life but amplified many many times more (I didn't use any drugs in my life so it is not it) and this is why I so badly want to learn how to achieve it. I am not only looking for LD but for this another world of super experiences.
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      Cool - thanks for the thread and the link-collection FateTrader - and congratulation!
      And for the appeal to be responsible with such experiments as well, Zoth!
      I´ve been not really believing my husband, when he announced, building one of these - and really functional - would be easily doable.
      But is it "safe"?
      Rather not, I´d say - if it is able to induce any effects - of course there is potential to induce negative effects implicitly there.
      And I think, there are known negative effects.
      I forgot now, what was considered more prone to side effects - this or the trans-cranial-magnetic-stimulation. I believe it was the latter, which had shown some nasty effects.
      Maybe got to do some research as well - one thing to definitively take into account would be - do not use, when being a known epileptic.
      There was also something mentioned somewhere - Wikipedia it was I think - that it is hard to do placebo-controlled studies, due to a sort of prickly sensation on the scalp being there, when done for real and absent otherwise?

      Can you confirm that?

      I will send my husband a link in here - and "incubate him with it" once more - hehe - I will report if he tinkers something together.
      When first his interest welled up - he somehow came off it and did not build something after all.
      If he does - I got to read up on side-effects and all as well as him - can´t let him fry his brain away by mistake!!

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      What montage are you using, that has given you improved dream recall?

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      StephL
      There may be side effects as with everything but according to research available they occur very rarely and most of them include burning the skin with the electrode (this may happen when the electrode is to small in size, seeing a phosphene (light flashing in the eyes when having electrode to close to the eye) I had this two times it was when I turned it on and then gone, or a headache.

      As for the sensations, yes you can feel sometimes a bit of itchiness under the cathode mostly, I felt it few times, nothing to worry about it is not very noticeable.

      Main thing is to dip the electrode well in the saline solution almost to the dripping point so it stays wet for whole 20min.

      Here I have put some information together with my own device schematic, it is done in very simple way so it is easy to follow even if you have no knowledge of electronics whatsoever.

      My device is powered with two 9V batteries in series it gives 18V and it uses 1x 4k7 resistor 1x 5k switched potentiometer and 1x 0-20 mA ammeter.



      RationalGaze
      I am mostly using montage with Anode on F3 and Cathode on FP2 image but also I have tried once Anode FP1 cathode FP2 (memorization montage) and after this one it started but now I have moved a bit higher anode in the first montage and this works much better for me, I must have had it to low at first, I feel great difference now.
      Last edited by FateTrader; 12-03-2013 at 01:34 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      StephLI am mostly using montage with Anode on F3 and Cathode on FP2 image but also I have tried once Anode FP1 cathode FP2 (memorization montage) and after this one it started but now I have moved a bit higher anode in the first montage and this works much better for me, I must have had it to low at first, I feel great difference now.
      OK, just to make sure I understand clearly... The montage that has helped your dream recall was [email protected] and [email protected] but with JUST the anode raised a bit higher up?
      Last edited by RationalGaze; 12-03-2013 at 08:38 AM.

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      RationalGaze
      I have been using the device for just over 2 weeks, 99% with "Depression" montage and just once memory montage. What I noticed is that the effects are not straight away apparent they slowly "build up". Same with the dreams I started slowly remembering them but just recently after doing memorization montage I had 3 days in a row very nice memories of them which makes sense "memorization montage" so I am going to try it again soon maybe tonight.

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      I think it might be too early to associate this device with your improved dream recall.

      I have had random bouts of incredible dream recall (2-5 dreams a night) that lasted about a week and then recall went way down, but am unable to attribute them to anything specific. If I had been playing video games that week I might have said that gaming improves recall, but it would just be anecdotal evidence at best.

      If you still have excellent recall a month from now, that would be stronger evidence but still not conclusive, since the act of paying attention to your dreams and writing them down might increase your recall all on its own (synergistic relationship).
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      I agree it is not conclusive, I will continue using the device and I will post any progress or regress when it occurs. I have done memory stimulation yesterday and remembered a long and vivid dream that night, again no conclusions there this is what happened, it may be coincident that I want to remember them and since I use device I subconsciously make myself to do so "placebo" either way I am happy it works

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      Hi FateTrader.

      Your tDCS experiments seem fascinating although I would always proceed with caution and to not 'over use' such a home made device in a session or to use sensible breaks between sessions and frequency of usage over time.
      I apologize that I haven't had chance to view the many links. I guess one of those articles would answer usage times and recommended frequency of use (for safety.)

      I too am quite interested in brain states and dreaming too. I did download a schematic (last year) that I sort of recognise on the main link you have posted.

      I was a bit coy at making one and trying it out however!

      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      Here I have put some information together with my own device schematic, it is done in very simple way so it is easy to follow even if you have no knowledge of electronics whatsoever.

      My device is powered with two 9V batteries in series it gives 18V and it uses 1x 4k7 resistor 1x 5k switched potentiometer and 1x 0-20 mA ammeter.
      I have checked your YouTube video (via Schematics 1. My tDCS device.)

      Here are some of my concerns:

      1. Simple should not mean cutting corners (see fuse note.)
      2. If a person who builds the circuit has no electronics knowledge then he should always have his or her circuit checked over by someone who has knowledge like an electrical/electronic student or engineer preferably.
      (It is always best to err on the side of caution.)

      I.e: In the video you are hooked up to a single 9v battery with different resistors, etc. although you are using a current limiting semiconductor, etc.
      However You have no fast-blowing fuse in the anode lead (from what I can see.) That is a safety issue!

      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      I agree it is not conclusive, I will continue using the device and I will post any progress or regress when it occurs. I have done memory stimulation yesterday and remembered a long and vivid dream that night, again no conclusions there this is what happened, it may be coincident that I want to remember them and since I use device I subconsciously make myself to do so "placebo" either way I am happy it works
      Good luck and stay safe!

      EDIT: Technically you have a built in protection fuse in the in-line Ammeter (200 mA?) which would still be far too high though.
      Last edited by Highlander; 12-04-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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    14. #14
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      Highlander

      The youtube video "My tDCS device" is no mine, it is just a title someone else used.

      I too don't have the fuse in my device, I am still considering buying one, it won't be a problem soldering it in to my current rig it has plenty of room for that. They are quite expensive over $20.

      My tDCS was built by combining the ideas from few different schematics. I have used 18V power source due to the impedance drop, you can read about it here . There are 2 significant parts resistor 4700ohms and potentiometer 5000ohms if one of these fails maximum current will be about 3.8mA which is not much and not harmful, lab tests shown that 140mA can do permanent damage so I suppose both of the parts would have to blow in the same time for that, quite unlikely but not impossible...

      I'll try not fry my mind

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      Highlander

      The youtube video "My tDCS device" is no mine, it is just a title someone else used.
      Ok, sorry. Thanks for clearing that one up. I thought it important to mention though.

      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      ...you can read about it here .
      To read further the site page required me to log in!

      Quote Originally Posted by FateTrader View Post
      There are 2 significant parts resistor 4700ohms and potentiometer 5000ohms if one of these fails maximum current will be about 3.8mA which is not much and not harmful, lab tests shown that 140mA can do permanent damage so I suppose both of the parts would have to blow in the same time for that, quite unlikely but not impossible...

      I'll try not fry my mind
      You would still have to bear in mind the actual speed a component or fuse 'blows.' I.e. the shorter time you are exposed to the abnormally high current, then the better if you cannot totally remove the risk.

      Measurements are best taken with an accurate calibrated piece of test equipment, where possible to eliminate errors.

      Regarding the figure of 140mA causing permanent damage:
      Was this a human subject by any chance?
      What about (non-)permanent damage like seizures, epilepsy, etc. I suppose those effects are in between the figures you quote?
      Last edited by Highlander; 12-05-2013 at 01:49 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
      To read further the site page required me to log in!
      I have a link on my website to the pdf file, here it is. To be honest I have just read the Abstract section.

      Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
      You would still have to bear in mind the actual speed a component or fuse 'blows.' I.e. the shorter time you are exposed to the abnormally high current, then the better if you cannot totally remove the risk.
      You are right I will get a fuse soon, better to be safe than sorry.

      Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
      Regarding the figure of 140mA causing permanent damage:
      Was this a human subject by any chance?
      140mA was done on mice, I am not sure how this releates to humans but it was done with intention of finding out how it would affect us so I am assuming in this matter brain of a mouse is enough eqiovalent to ours.

      Quote Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
      What about (non-)permanent damage like seizures, epilepsy, etc. I suppose those effects are in between the figures you quote?
      I haven't found anything about this kind of damage, according to many different sources I have read so far there is very little side effects if any. I doesn't exclude the possibility of showing up some unseen yet effects.

      I admit I am taking the risk on this one but the volume of tests done and the fact that this method is already used in various clinics by doctors for some years now seems quite reassuring. I am convinced that taking farmaceutical stimulants is far more risky than this method, there is so many side effects to different drugs and yet everybody just takes them so reclessly. For instance infamous prozac, I have never taken anything like this but just reading about this stuff puts me off. I don't have any depression I am using this montage because there is so many other effects it produces that I find it usefull for me. I have built my device for focus, memory and learning improvement purpouse. I haven't used learning montage yet, memory montage I have used just twice so far. I am going to do a break now maybe for a week or two and the try from scratch the memory stim, to start clean.
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      Hi FateTrader.

      Thanks for the link and the clarification in your post.

      I guess the lowest voltage, least length of time and smallest current you can use with the recommended breaks and correct procedures outlined to give the required results and risk if you are experimenting unsupervised is the more preferred option if you are going to use such a device.

      I think it would be prudent to note and record any findings, especially anything unusual.

      I'm sorry if I come across like the 'H & S police' but I thought I best air my concerns considering this is a public forum, especially as epilepsy is in my family, etc.

      I totally agree regarding drug side effects and toxicity. Some Doctors do dish them out like sweets which doesn't help the patient in the long term.
      There are even disclaimers on flashing Led lights used in 'brainwave entrainment' gadgets and videogames, etc.

      Regards.
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