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    Thread: OneofMany's series of inexplicable Dream Yoga events workbook....

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      OneofMany's series of inexplicable Dream Yoga events workbook....

      Hi!
      *Waves* Okay, so this would be my first attempt at an online workbook, so I might try to derive some aspects of other workbooks and apply it here so this workbook looks more constructive, and appealing to my eye. As you (maynot)know, I like it to be fun to look at as well as write. I do think I'm going to print out the lessons though as I think that will help me focus on the task until I memorize them. Tape the lessons to focus on for the week to my fridge or whatnot...

      So I've been mostly focusing on Dream Yoga Basic Skills: Lesson #1: Sensory Awareness Meditation, although version #1 is Listening to a Noisy World. Although, it's a listening exercise, I've been leaning on the visual aspects. So rather than get lost in my thoughts or head, I try to bring my awareness to everything in my visual field. I try to soften my focus, utilize my peripheral vision, and try to widen my field of awareness. It feels like I just take a deeper breath with my eyes. I've noticed a distinct difference in my focus(& facial tension) whereas it seems like I will focus my field of vision on a specific area, and may find myself squinting, but when I relax my focus to take in a broader field, I relax a bit. I've also noticed more, like I couldn't see a traffic light ahead, but noticed the reflection on the side of another car. In certain contexts(fairs, busy events,etc.), I tend to get overwhelmed by all the visual noise or clutter, and it feels like I can take more in without being overstimulated and able to relax more, without my awareness suffering due to blocking out information. Such as before I would prioritize visual stimuli, and tune out other noise, now I just relax, try to be softly aware of several things at once but not clinging, grasping or hyper-focusing at one subject. I hope this is correct methodology....(?)

      In reflection as to how it's affected my dreamstate, I've noticed more vivid dreams, (the colors seem to pop, scenery, etc. seem more alive) and come back with more visuals upon awaking.

      Also, when I was putting the youngest one to nap, I was rocking her in the chair, so thought it would be a good time to practice. I kinda bounced around from focusing on one subject and trying to focus on many. It was a long night prior, after a small amount of time, I was struggling to stay awake, so I decided to fall asleep(it's like I release, I feel a wave of sleepiness and ride it to unconsciousness if that makes sense).

      It seems like only a few minutes had passed and I woke up, the little one was still asleep, but I noticed that it was pitch black except for the narrow field of vision I was focused on, which had a similar appearance to a flashlight/torch. I shifted my focus on my surroundings, trying to figure out the cause for the strange visual anomalies. Wherever I focused my awareness, was illuminated, and what was not was dark(very much like a flashlight in the middle of darkness, except technically, it was the afternoon and sunny). I ended up concluding that I was awake(not LDing) but perhaps my body was asleep, given that it was noon, and the sensations were similar to an OBE but I wasn't out. So I just focused here, then there, far and close, noting what I saw and didn't see. I increased my aperture of focus, then hyper-focus in, I could see the pores on the skin of my little one's face, the soft curve of her cheek, then I tried to meditate, and focus internally, watch my thoughts, etc. not sure what to do(many uh now what do I do moments?)....then I decided that the little one would most probably be up late at night again given her owl-esk nature so I decided to slip off into unconsciousness to see if that would help me with the long night ahead. I watched myself slip into a deeper state of unconsciousness, then I black out. I wake up a couple minutes later....now I'm wondering if I did it wrong or should have approached it differently? Not sure what to do in that state(whatever it was)?

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      I like you already.

      Welcome to the class. You will find that later lessons do get into the visual field and are very related to what you have writen here. I may take up to a week or so to respond, but feel free to ask questions and report what you learn.

      As far as the state you were in, there is no one thing you should do. It sounds like some type of dream or trance like state. Perhaps what you could call only part way asleep. There are really 3 basic classes of meditation you may use in such a state. It depends on your goals and spiritual needs. The first is discipline building. Many of the lessons I teach focus on that. Second is relaxation/experiencing. Third would be interacting with your mind or spirit. Ultimately, all 3 at one time. But for you, at this moment, I recommend just the relaxing/experiencing. Have fun at first, and just get a kick out of any odd stuff that shows itself. It does get very odd if you stick with it.

      Have fun!
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Hi,
      Thanks for the warm welcome. I like the pace of the lessons, and taking a week or so to respond sounds appropriate/reasonable to me. Plus it gives me time to practice, reflect, type it up/post it, etc.

      So, yup I printed out the lessons. :face palm: I think I meshed up the later lesson(visual based) with the first one. It helps to have them on the fridge, I do imagine though I'll take my time through each lesson, so been practicing lesson one proper, and will follow up with a write up and questions after a week(or so) on it. I don't currently have any questions and want to practice more doing a write up. I appreciate the time you take to answer my questions, and doing these lessons out like this, it really helps!

      It's good to hear how there isn't like a you should do this not that thing, and to focus on relaxing/experiencing for this stage rather than stress out on doing the right thing. A dream/trance-part way asleep like state sounds about right, I've been low on sleep lately to boot. So one can use these trance/dream like states for discipline building? I understand mind/spirit aspect and fun/experience, but totally never thought about discipline, did I gather that correctly?

      It's just really nice to have someone who's BTDT, it makes such a big difference. I am interested in discipline building (I do need improve that indefinitely), so I'm happy how there's a focus there. I have my own particular goals which I'm not too comfortable disclosing although I imagine are lassie faire(depending on region), but basically pushing myself to the furthest possibility/potential.
      Anyway, big thank you and best regards!

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      Yes, you can use the state to work on mental discpline simply by attempting to create specific effects. You may for instance try to imagine you are floating, and must develop the subtle mental process of getting your half asleep brain to create the effect. Such discpline improves your ability to stay aware and focused in an altered state and improves control inside an LD.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Hi,
      Yes, you can use the state to work on mental discpline simply by attempting to create specific effects. You may for instance try to imagine you are floating, and must develop the subtle mental process of getting your half asleep brain to create the effect. Such discpline improves your ability to stay aware and focused in an altered state and improves control inside an LD.
      Oh that's so cool! Okay, so what I'm getting is that by "create the effect" means full effect, "as if" so to speak, I can see how that would really benefit a LD.

      Okay, back to work....
      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 1
      I found this to be considerably harder to do than the visual mishmash I did earlier. The first few days especially, I noticed how I felt "off" balance or vulnerable favoring my hearing, and had to keep pulling myself back to listening rather than open my eyes and analyze the sound. Keeping my eyes partially opened, but not focusing on listening helped till I got comfortable with closing my eyes as well as having a solitary location helped with the initial discomfort.

      When I practiced, I noticed a few things, my house is really noisy,.... just the house itself, creaks, groaning wood, then DS's bunny is so loud, rip this, dig that, throw a toy here or there.... I tried not to attach to them(as in pleasant/unpleasant) nor sharply focus on one sound in particular. At first(and still although to a little lesser extent)my mind just jumping from one thing to another, which I was taken aback by as I found it easier to focus on visual stuff without getting lost in thoughts or just felt it easier to "hone-in" visually. Whereas with listening, I had a hard time placing the source of the sound or focusing on listening to the world in general. So every time I caught myself thinking about the sound, a storyline, chores, etc. I reeled myself back to listening to the external world. It seemed that especially for the first days it was mostly hoping back on the saddle everytime I slide off. S

      ometimes I would focus on DH's fishtank as there are a multitude of sounds from there, or I would focus first on the loud sounds, then filter through them to more subtle sounds. Or inside environment to then outer environment, say house to yard to street, or immediate area to further and further away or loud to quiet, like shifting focus from loud bunny to trickling water from the fishtank to wind blowing on the roof. Trying to make a game I guess of how low I could go, or experience each layer of sound, although at first it was one sound at a time. I tried to attempt this anytime I could, mostly during naptime, waiting in the school pickup, and bedtime. I found it so challenging but really fun as well.

      Some observations; I thought it was funny how this had brought to my awareness how little I depend on listening/hearing my environment, and am so highly dependent on my vision. Just really habitual in the visual side I guess, and I would experience some restlessness with focusing on listening solely which took some time to work through, it felt like an exercise regime, where I would work my way up little by little.

      Also in regards to listening, I found that I favor listening internally than to externally; so say I'm milking, and rather than using the rhythmic sound to zone/fog out and daydream; I had to really focus on staying present, and listen to the sounds of the milk, or surroundings. I found that difficult as well, rather than use sound to go foggy to my external environment, I had to maintain awareness so a bit of shifting gears there, which was a challenge but got easier over the course of a few days.

      In dreams, I noticed they have gotten more basic or simplistic, in the past sound was mostly absent(as well as people), if you ever played Myst, Myst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, that'd be how they are in general, generally go to the same place over and over, yada yada... anyway, for the past week, I've generally stayed in one room(not the same one) which is sparse(a desk or two), and a sentence/conversation/speech is highlighted or I notice the sounds in my dreams now more so than before.

      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 2
      I realized just how much work I needed to do before comfortably diving into level 2 properly, so I decided that to focus more on the basics so mostly did since my first post(4/21). I did dabble in it a couple times in the past two days though...
      Perhaps it's just my thing, so I went back to layers of earlier, and rather than focus on one aspect or sound within a certain octave, I tried to widen my focus, whilst keeping them separate. It felt alot like juggling, and I was dropping the balls. I found myself mentally switching focus back and forth rapidly and having a hard time widening the periphery soften the focus. So much more work needed.

      I don't have any too many pressing questions, although, I'm sure I missed some(alot of) things. Some things I imagine just takes more practice to work through, such as the monkey-mind effect, and Level 2 in particular I think will take some considerable practice to really get. I like how there's a stillness, more of a surface stillness that occurs when I got some of the restlessness underwraps, which confused me a little, I wouldn't say it's no thoughts, but it feels maybe more like fuller presence in the moment, I'm not sure what it is called/to call it really though(?). I feel I've wrote a novel so I'm going to stop here. :0P Anyway, it's been really cool so far, and really enjoying the process.
      Last edited by OneofMany; 05-02-2013 at 03:24 AM. Reason: finishing up:D

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      Hi again. Sounds great! Amazing how most of us lived decades with out really noticing much of what happens with our senses.

      The mental process does start a lot like juggling. This stuff should be challenging and that is what will lead to growth. I am glad you are not rushing.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Hi,
      Yeah totally, I really like how this last few lessons have brought to my awareness how much I miss already, I imagine I've just seen the tip of the iceberg on stuff I miss.

      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 2
      I've had more time to practice, and noticed the juggling sensation/feeling to lessen and it getting easier to maintain focus for longer periods of time. I still notice that if I practice as I'm going about my day, I still lean towards visual stuff, but if I close my eyes, after about twenty to thirty minutes, I start to loose sense of my body. It seems like there is alot of steering going on with myself. I continue to focus on listening and try to hold as many sounds equally in mind without sounding cacophonous. I try not to get irritated or distracted from my goal of maintaining focus on listening without focusing on how I feel like say I'm tilting in space/body morphing(like my neck feeling like it's creaked to the side but really I'm erect). After a few minutes though I get rather restless, and open my eyes, then go back to focusing, but once those sensations start, they seem to increase unless I stop and start over. This did bring back memories of when I was little, I would focus on an object to lessen pain or use it as a method of pain control during say a trip to our dentist. Rather similar sensations of loosing sense of body and trying to "be" the object I would look at. Except here it's with sounds and not interested in the side affects.

      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 3
      In trying to keep on practicing at every moment I can grab, I noticed how in life and dream are similar many ways. Whereas in the dream world, I'll get sidetracked by my impulses and loose lucidity easily or have trouble getting/maintaining lucidity. Similar occurs in life, where I go about my day, try to maintain focus on staying aware, then Oh, lookie a cute duckling, and bam, lost focus or this/that reminds me of how I need to do xyz, but hey something else needs to get done. When I do finally get in the "groove" it feels awesome though, as long as I can maintain it, and although I'm not doing this to "feel good," it's still nice. When things get really loud, like yesterday, when both kids were talking simultaneously, one saying "shoes!...pants!...more shoes!..etc." as we walked past people, and my other little one was asking about getting a cookie all by himself, it was so hard to listen to both kids, environment, etc. and not muddle it together. Which I did.

      Funny thing in dreaming, I noticed that aside from just daily stuff playing out, when I tried to meditate inbetween dreams to clear out all the junk from the day, so to speak. My next dream was me meditating in a fog/mist. So yeah.

      Question?--So when practicing listening or any of the exercises, as I've noticed it happen basically everytime I meditate with my eyes closed(after a particular amount of time passes), when I loose sensation of my body, should I ignore it and continue on the subject of focus? I toss those things under normal stuff not to get excited nor annoyed at, but at times I just get irritated with how distracted I get over it, like the other day, I felt like I was slowly falling over to the side, then I was worried I was, but it turns out I wasn't...what do you recommend?
      Thank you.
      Last edited by OneofMany; 05-10-2013 at 04:20 PM.

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      Let's start with the sensations, such as falling. On this forum we refer to hypnogogic imagery or hallucinations. The short hand for this is HI or HH. The subject comes up in attempting to go directly from a waking state into true sleep, while maintaining awareness. This is refered to as a WILD attempt. If in the brief time the meditater can trick the bodily functions to switch in sleep mode, while staying aware, a dream forms, then it is automatically a lucid dream.

      So, that is what we can refer to (HI) when talking about altered preception gained through meditation. What you do with them is up to you. I recommend for now, that you do not attempt to control them. I also do not want you to be so focused on the goal of a lesson, that you respond with self judging thoughts. If you stray from your intended meditation, notice, and try not to engage your mind much. We live way to much in our monolouge thoughts. You will need to learn to experience and observe with reduced 'words' in your head. Therefore, if you have strayed and think "stop it, you must focus" that very act is undesirable. Better to enjoy the HIs if you have got that far, and come back to the lesson in a minute.

      Here is a cute observation. Hippies get high in order to experience altered states, while dream yogi get H.I. for the same puprose. The next 3 times you reach a odd state of warped sensation, try not to think, forget about everything, and attempt to just observe the 'odd stuff'. Then please document briefly watch you experienced. No rush or time frame on this.

      Next, I want you to observe an interesting human ability. This is the ability to form new neural pathways. Simply, do these lessons seriously one more time. Really spend a few minutes thinking about what happens during them. Then set them aside for 3 weeks. During that 3 weeks, attempt to enjoy your sense of hearing in a new enriched way, but do not do the formal lessons. You should pick another lesson and try to get absorbed in a new type of skill. Then, after 3 weeks of working on a new lesson, I want you to switch back. Find the time to attempt each lesson and then truely analyze your result compared to 3 weeks prior. I think you will be suprised.
      What happens is you have now focused enough on a lesson that if you give your brrain a bit of time, it will grow neurons in anticipation of you calling upon it again. So, great job so far. I really do like your workbook.
      Last edited by sivason; 05-18-2013 at 07:14 AM.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Oops, sorry, I've been typing this over the past two days, didn't realize you had responded.

      If you stray from your intended meditation, notice, and try not to engage your mind much. We live way to much in our monolouge thoughts. You will need to learn to experience and observe with reduced 'words' in your head. Therefore, if you have strayed and think "stop it, you must focus" that very act is undesirable. Better to enjoy the HIs if you have got that far, and come back to the lesson in a minute.
      Okay, yeah definitely, that's what I've been doing. I didn't realize that HIs can occur during meditation, :face palm: I put it under a limited/narrow definition of falling asleep.

      while dream yogi get H.I. for the same puprose. The next 3 times you reach a odd state of warped sensation, try not to think, forget about everything, and attempt to just observe the 'odd stuff'. Then please document briefly watch you experienced. No rush or time frame on this.
      You know, sometimes I wondered about it if drugs caused similar sensations as an HI....Okay, will do. Thanks.

      Next, I want you to observe an interesting human ability. This is the ability to form new neural pathways.
      Yes! I have noticed that in doing meditation, over the course of some months, things have changed noticeably, that would only point to form new neural pathways. For example, I was dx'd with brain damage many years ago, but then my symptoms started to improve, for example, facial recognition.

      Simply, do these lessons seriously one more time. Really spend a few minutes thinking about what happens during them. Then set them aside for 3 weeks. During that 3 weeks, attempt to enjoy your sense of hearing in a new enriched way, but do not do the formal lessons. You should pick another lesson and try to get absorbed in a new type of skill. Then, after 3 weeks of working on a new lesson, I want you to switch back. Find the time to attempt each lesson and then truely analyze your result compared to 3 weeks prior. I think you will be suprised.
      What happens is you have now focused enough on a lesson that if you give your brrain a bit of time, it will grow neurons in anticipation of you calling upon it again.
      Awesome, okay! I really like your idea. I'm going to write this down so I'll remember to do it. It usually takes me a few tries to get something to stick to memory.


      This week's entry-------->
      This week has been more hectic than normal..everyone getting sick, stuff breaking(car, mower, fenceline), and urgently needing mending/picking/processing/etc. Whatever, that's what lists are for...

      So, it turns out I was mostly doing the wrong one this time, geez, I remember checking the list but things have been so hectic as soon as I put one thing down, someone cried, or get me this, draw on that, really on my toes, I *thought* I read the right section turns out not but anyway.... not practicing as much as I should have, but still tried to stick to schedule/layout....Also trying to build on the meditations, and with each new lesson, incorporate it into the next one, while also, still devoting time to focusing exclusively on the task at hand/next lesson. So several things going on.

      Version 2: Feel an Intense World-Level 1At first impulse, I was worried about this exercise, I tend to get really irritated and overwhelmed by touch like sensory overload. Usually when I "feel an intense world" I turn to advil and such to dull the physical sensations as well as wear clothes to cover my skin as I feel so irritated by the soft touch of grass, a brush of the wind. I'm not sure how to deal with them, lot's of physical sensations, so I think this is a good exercise for me in developing better coping techniques or not be so bothered by sensations. I decided to first mostly stick to feeling one body part at a time, like my hands or feet, say as they touch the ground, as even that can get annoying especially this week with all the rain, I get really annoyed by all the input. I think just being tired and stressed is making it harder to handle all the physical sensations or lowering my personal threshold as I noticed stuff that only bothers me once in a while has become a nuisance, such as a button or fabric seam of my clothes.

      Practicing this outside was easier than doing this inside sitting still, so outside, when it was sunny, and less mucky out, felt the grass, damp, pants clinging to my ankle, the harshness of the grass, how sharp each blade is as I'm pulling it out of the ground, I did end up cutting myself on the grass, but hey, that's what callouses are for. I felt how the sharp blade just slid through my skin, usually I don't notice getting those superfical cuts from weeding but I found it interesting how just focusing on the sensations of my hands sure brought that to my awareness. I dig my hand in my weedy onion bed, I feel blindly, each plant in it's own distinction, onion, burr, pull, onion, clover, pull, onion, grass, pull, the burrs have such a funny feel, sticky, stringy, rather than the cold, smooth edges of the onion blades. I imagine the weeds are screaming as I rip them out of the ground, I wonder what it feels like to be a weed, ripped out of the ground, then I refocus on sensation rather than imagery.

      So sitting, trying to focus on my sensations, I would feel a chair button jab me in the back, then the fabric of the chair now bothers me, it's so rough/course. My pants have a seam which presses against my skin, I try to ignore it, I eventually roll my pants up so the bump on the seam faces out, and shift in the chair so the button lays more flat so I don't feel it as much. So I shift my focus more narrowly to body sensations, muscle tension, and feel how the pressure and irritation is affecting my body, I notice the various parts of my body holding lots of tension, and try to relax my muscles, from face, jaw, neck and downwards, which helps a bit.

      I've been trying to just get out of the irritated state of mind, and I just call it that as it's been muddy, and wet, kinda sink into the ground, suction kinda muddy. I liked listening to the bubbles and sounds of water peculating down, but physical wise, ugh. Which I know is all my problem, just not sure what to do when encountering lots of irritating sensations. Do you have any recommendations when you're just buggy?

      On a cool note, while dreaming, I remembered what I've been practicing during the day so during the dream, it was an irritating one about my family, and sister doing her old tricks. Go figure? LOL. A dc had asked to deal with what was bothering me, I told her that I wasn't willing to discuss it as I was having a good time and didn't want to ruin the moment by thinking about painful stuff. Anyway, long story short, I noticed my feelings well up. I watched as my emotions started to rise, and then I blocked them, but I remembered how during the day I've been trying to express myself rather than suppress emotions so I moved my block(which I imagined as a hand stopping the wave of emotion), and watched the emotion rise, crest, then cede. I was happy I didn't get swept away with the emotion and managed to experience it without becoming overwhelmed, it was like standing next to an ocean and watching the waves, the emotions weren't me, but occurred in me. I hope that makes sense :0) So I'm not sure how to bring that(whatever it is?) to waking state or daily living state? How to maintain it? I'm not sure what it is called but I've crudely called it being an empty vessel or comparing it to a soup bowl, where I identify with the bowl and my thoughts/emotions are the soup or I am the sky and thoughts/emotions are the clouds. Does it naturally occur when one both allows non-clinging/grabbing expression?

      Thank you for doing this, it has really been so very helpful.
      Best Regards, and have a good weekend!
      Last edited by OneofMany; 05-18-2013 at 03:22 PM. Reason: added stuff :P

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      All of that makes good sense. Your current inability to access fine tactile sensation with out irritation is just something to work on. Remember you have a lifetime to improve. The very fact that you have run into a road block, shows you will be able to work directly on something that will improve your enjoyment. I am sure that if you practice this stuff, then you will gain more capacity to tolerate and maybe even learn to enjoy subtle tactile awareness. No quick answer, just time and practice.

      Being able to observe your emotion as something seperate from the core 'you' is a valuable skill. It is the kind of goal people chase when they talk about detachment. It is simply that they still have emotion, but can look at it as stimuli instead of a truth.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      All of that makes good sense. Your current inability to access fine tactile sensation with out irritation is just something to work on. Remember you have a lifetime to improve. The very fact that you have run into a road block, shows you will be able to work directly on something that will improve your enjoyment. I am sure that if you practice this stuff, then you will gain more capacity to tolerate and maybe even learn to enjoy subtle tactile awareness. No quick answer, just time and practice.
      Thanks. I do like how you don't have a quick answer/fix though, as I tend to find those suspicious. Time and practice suites me well, that I can do.

      Being able to observe your emotion as something seperate from the core 'you' is a valuable skill. It is the kind of goal people chase when they talk about detachment.
      Okay, I never heard of detachment, it makes so much more sense than what I've heard as an explanation (beginning stage of schizophrenia, psychosis, depersonalization, self-hypnosis, and a sign of bipolar disorder type 1 from those in the psychology fields). I thought it was a good thing, it seemed helpful, but it's so different from "normalcy" (and feedback so negative) it's hard for me to put into context aside from how it effects daily life as an enhancer or detractor at which point I say, it's good to hear you feedback as well, so pragmatic and balanced. Plus, your answer makes so much more sense as at the time I started to experience that, I had been working on my attachment issues, and reviewing my life experiences as neither good/bad but just as it is(experience), questioning my nature/existence, and tossing out the stuff that hinders my life(which turned out to be most everything.).

      Thank you, your answers are very illuminating!

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      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 1 Part Deux. This time around, although time has been pressing(graduation/parties/summer vacation) and I haven't had as much time to just sit and listen. So on this weeks reflection, I am disappointed in how little solid spans of time I ended up getting accomplished. Still, I've found it highly satisfying and easier in a sense, perhaps, things going along more smoothly.

      I'm trying not to judge, or analyze so much, unless something is incredibly grating happened, such as last night at the bookstore, sitting, listening to a busy world, when some parents kept ignoring their kids screaming for attention(I was right there and it was really piercing, but the parent's were like....la la la, oh screaming?), and subsequently loosing them; so then the parents started to scream(the kids were fine, enmeshed in books, just ten feet away the parents). And I'm trying to ignore the really loud screaming right next to me, and focus on other sounds, it was soo hard to hear anything besides the screaming interaction. But now, I do know why people leave to the forest to meditate.

      I still drift with thoughts or imagination, especially with the instances that I found personally grating, first I tried to let go, relax, and put it in perspective. That generally didn't work So I would reflect on the nature as to why I was so bothered with it, (whether I should do something or no; speak up/stay quiet, etc.)and try to understand why, with some understanding, I did find that it was less bothersome, othertimes, I couldn't figure it out, and just left the area to another more peaceful location. Which to me was more of a hedge than a resolution.

      With dreams, it's been funny how much more sound has been in a more prominent role, such as DCs singing, and more music overall. Like in one the other night, just a general dream of rocks rolling down a hill, smiling and singing the whole way.

      Questions-->If you listen to a noisy world, and hear say, a domestic dispute(for lack of better term)? What do you do? How do you recommend bouncing back from it? I find that I get really churned up from situations some of these touchy situations and subsequently harder to relax and let go.
      Last edited by OneofMany; 05-26-2013 at 10:01 PM.

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      I would say that kids screaming or domestic disputes are biologically hardwired into our systems as negetive attractors of attention. It is important to help a screaming child and to move away from an angry man, so it triggers things inside us.

      I would consider the presence of such things too disturbing to bother with a listening exercise. In a general sense as far as personal development and meditation/yoga skills go you can learn to suppress the adrenal response to such things. It also offers an interesting challange which is just to practice intense focus on anything else. If you develop the level of focus needed, then you should be able to de-prioritize the sensory input from the distraction. This will allow you to be mildly irritated, but not distracted by the noise.
      Last edited by sivason; 05-27-2013 at 09:44 PM.
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      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      I would say that kids screaming or domestic disputes are biologically hardwired into our systems as negetive attractors of attention. It is important to help a screaming child and to move away from an angry man, so it triggers things inside us.
      That's reassuring. It sounds like you live in a rather progressive area. I wish people would drop the old fashioned beliefs of how one shouldn't handle one's own infant/child here. From what I understand, there's alot of pressure to "train" the infant, or prevent it from "manipulating" the parent's with it's crying. I could really turn this into a rant, but I digress....

      I would consider the presence of such things too disturbing to bother with a listening exercise. In a general sense as far as personal development and meditation/yoga skills go you can learn to suppress the adrenal response to such things
      Yes, this last incident didn't give me the "shakes" so much, but the one from two weeks ago(baby gurgle-screaming) just I could feel the adrenaline rush. I hate confrontation, and with just the thought of a possible argument, I start to feel drained, as well as my muscles tense, then afterwards, shake/tremor for awhile, yada yada. So I can see how overcoming the adrenal response would be positive or learning how to either take it in better stride or shake off the effects sooner to be ideal. I've been told I'm have a good poker face or don't show the effects until afterwards, so I can put it to the side as I try to stay focused on say talking to the parent or trying to call the police without loosing my cool.

      On a positive note, I've started to notice sounds more and more that I didn't know exist. It's just weird, even at times when I'm not practicing, perhaps it's just because it's a habit or whatnot. But I've heard the subtle sonnet/sounds of a melody of my kid's movie, I didn't know was there, we've had it for over a year, and I really never heard it before. And now the bunny is really noisy, not just with chewing or throwing toys, but vocalizations that two weeks prior I never heard(I thought he was a vocally quiet bunny prior to such occurrences). So it's weird to me, as I just never really focused on sounds much before, and now it's like a whole new world, a richness I never even thought of.
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      I am glad about all of that. I sense you are a good person and hope some of my class will somehow improve your enjoyment,,, I think you probably deserve to enjoy life.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      No worries. IMHO, points of suffering are just obstacles of the mind, opportunities to explore, learn, and grow, these things pop up now and then.

      I can see how your classes have the side effect of enjoyment. As they force me to focus on things I've long tried to ignore or suppress, so rather than run away, now is time to face them, although there would be a temporary state of uncomfortableness or adrenaline rush, in handling the issue at hand, there's a potential to remove the barrier and allowing free flowing of whatever, the removal of resistance/going with one's flow so to speak would subsequently cause enjoyment(or peace).

      So learning to handle a noisy world irregardless of stimuli is a valuable skill indeed, although one may open up to the suckiness, one also opens up to more beauty, and to handle both ends of the spectrum the first task is to open up in the first place. Then there's that thing where once one opens up to the fullness of it all, it's easier to find that pivotal balance point in the middle, and it's harder to get knocked off balance by the external stimuli as one is perfectly balanced internally.
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      Very nice thoughts.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Thanks,
      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 1 Part Deux. So, I guess I'll name the theme this week, social experiments....we have some old friends visit, and it was pretty much sun up to well into the night with friends. I'm not socially inclined so it was tiring, like mountain climbing, fun, but really had my fill of socializing after a couple days. Then I mostly gave up on my old hangouts of solitude to practice, although given the opportunity, I certainly take the chance. It's summer vacation here, and there's just mobs of (social & lonely)people everywhere. I follow all of the rules for antisocial behavior, as soon as I see a person who looks like they want to talk(you know that glance), I'll smile, but keep my distance(usually several feet does the trick but even then people will yell talk?), pull my book out(as a cover to meditate also physical signal of "leave me alone"), I'll be mostly/minimally unresponsive, but they keep on talking!?

      So I modified the practice for social situations, I was getting really irritated/short tempered with out my "down/antisocial" time, and not getting much relief so looked to incorporate the practice to help with the irritation before I lash out....rather than spend the thinking/struggling to escape, thinking about how to improve my antisocial body language or that running of the thoughts or internal commentary that usually occurs during conversations, I just tried to evaluate my prospects and modify/adjust accordingly.

      Some folks, the only remedy was to walk far, far away,(as feasibly possible) as they keep on talking, like a recording(NPD-inclined folks who talk about themselves NON-stop), which can be funny to observe, but that's not a high priority atm, and just got bored of the rhetoric fast. With the most other folks, I just try to sit(mentally) and be open, listen w/o judgement, or trying to escape, just try to focus on the moment. Listen, to the words slip by one after another, then I tried to increase the balance of "noise" by trying to hear the tones, emotion behind the words, etc. and since I'm practicing listening, everytime I noticed I was focusing on body language, the furrow of a brow, swift shift of the eye to the distance over my shoulder, I would tune back into the words. (Like changing the frequency on a radio).

      Observations->Generally social situations tend to be exhausting/draining, there's alot of information a person transmits in a small amount of time, and I tend to find people's behaviors odd/confusing sometimes conflicting(bodily language vs. spoken language...ex. shakes head no; says: yes, I'd like that. then I determine what they really mean/want) When I noticed myself getting really irritated with the people, I stopped, noticed what was so irritating, then try to relax into the flow of things rather than resist or figure out how to get out of it. It seemed to help in feeling less drained, made it more of a challenge and less pointless...which was fun.

      With regards to dreams, I've noticed that although it still happens at times, they are less "telescopic"(just central point clear or with detail) and more 360* or panoramic. It's been funny, not only just so much more detail throughout, but even in the breathe of the dreamscape, it's not so much like a Monet anymore...even reading in LD was more "realistic" in that it didn't matter how many times I focused or turned away and looked back, the words were the same, which is unusual for myself. The detail in a few Dreams & LDs where really fun to just take in, as if I could see a landscape in whole, but each leaf or blade of grass as well.

      Questions-->None.

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      Great improvement in your dreams! The later lessons will enhance that even more.

      I enjoyed your observations on social settings. I would like you to experience something interesting about human voice and your mind. Here it is, we feel the need to seek meaning in every human voice. Because words convey specific images to the mind, we rarely can experience the human voice without it having a distracted seeking element to the experience.

      I find that exposing yourself to music in a langue you do not understand, somewhat relives this, and allows you to find a new way of taking in human voice. I did this lesson, back in the day, and used a koerean pop star tape. the young woman had a very nice voice and the songs had varying tempo and such, but i could not attach a mental image or thought to even one word of what she sang. I simply played the tape whenever I could, such as driving, until my mind completely relaxed as far as trying to derive meaning from the voice. After about 3 days I saw the point in the lesson. I reached a place where this woman's voice was experienced more like a birds call or an instrament. Some how this allowed me to adjust in daily life, so that when I deal with people, I can take in the voice without the mental drain of a hundred word pictures forming in my mind. You can then listen to a person, like you would a stream. You still hear the message, but limit the mental tiredness and noise inside of you.

      I have an interesting song for you to listen to. It is very popular so it will be easy to find on u-tube. It is Gangnam Style, by Psi.
      It has a fun happy exciting rythm, but it is largly in Korean. Listen and observe that when the words are in English "Oh sexy lady" you use a different kind of mental process. this stuff is very very subtle, but give it a shot, you may discover something, even if you can not put it into words.

      Try any music that you find sounds ok, but is not in a langue you speak even a bit of.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Awesome ideas! I have Psi's songs on my mp3, usually I just imagine what the words mean, rather than like you said as not attach anything to the words....I think I might look up some other songs and download as well as sometimes, when I hit a groove, I like to keep it going. Thanks, it sounds challenging and fun!
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      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 1 Part Deux. subcategory: Noisy People Sounds
      I really like the versatility of this practice. It's like a blending of various aspects of my life and incorporating them into a practice, whereas before I had music to listen to, and music to meditate to, now they blend into one. Given the situations I jumped between listening to people, and music when I was able. I preferred the ease of the music, as it seemed I could just let go, so to speak, easier. With people, I noticed three types of patterns/results, I fell into for the most part, with music, I didn't feel I had enough solid time to devote to really immerse myself into the experience.

      Observations->In regards to the public/get-togethers/etc., with most folks, it was more like remembering to catch a current of a wave; occasionally I'd loose focus, but not hard to slip back into the tide...it was nice as the idle chatter seemed less pointless or now purposeful.

      I did notice a distinct different between two folks that I exchanged words with/conversed(?)....when I was listening to an non-native speaker in particular, her accent was thick, and I wasn't familiar with the sound substitutions so I noticed that for the most part I didn't understand what she said, and asked for more participation in the conversation, so it seemed like I was just concentrating on each sound. I liked the accent, it was really difficult to just relax, and noticed how I was just so anxious or more on guard/edge, certainly less relaxed or with the flow.

      With another person, I've talked with her before, she's kinda funny. I knew her patterns of speech/conversation, as she'd talk, it really didn't matter to who; she'd just turn and rotate to anyone near her, she didn't have a mind-mouth filter, she talked about her constant barrage of thoughts racing in her head accompanied by twiddling fingers on either side of her head each time she said "thoughts." Anyway, I noticed it was easier to go with the flow as I didn't worry about having to be prepared to answer any questions, or anything deep; she did ask questions, but they were more to herself than anyone. I noticed that by the third(?) time I talked with her, I just kinda sat back, and took a mental deep breath, I didn't focus on responding and it was like a soft focus or perhaps I just didn't hinge on any one word, I noticed that it started to feel like when I do a sitting meditation, where things soften/blend, and I started to get drowsy. So I think perhaps I relaxed too much there.

      Sometimes, it feels like I'm on a precipice, or it's on the tip of my tongue kinda feeling, something is important, but I just don't get it. :shrug: So here's my crude attempt at verbalizing a cloud-like abstract feeling I've gotten....

      What I've learned from comparing the different situations, how I handled each one, etc. I think that my resistance to the situation was why I found social interactions to be so draining/tiresome. I noticed in various situations, that the less I struggled internally with the moment, the less stressed I got, even meditative at one point. I've also noticed that I can allow or not allow myself to get pulled into a conversation, which personally has a similar feeling as going from lucid to non-lucid whilst dreaming. I'm hoping that with practice(IRL), I'll become more lucid in dreams, as well as catch those moments in dreams to become lucid with greater frequency; just as IRL catching myself in loosing track or swept up in the moment. I can see how you say listening is to a person is like a stream.

      With music, it was funny, because, I think that I hadn't really listened to the music, I was just playing soundtrack to the images/thoughts. Sitting with the sound, purely was difficult. If the song had words, I'd just imagine the scenery, or with the non-English speaker, I'd catch myself conjuring up meaning. To sit, with the sound itself and not loose myself in the imagery was difficult, but I want to practice more with this as I don't think I'm quite "getting it" yet.

      Dreamtime stuff->I noticed that both with LD/dreams, that I can read, and whereas historically, the words would jump/shift/blur as I'd look at them, and I would only have a very narrow focus, like a magnifying glass of clarity I could(if at all read), and outside that narrow circle of focus it would get progressively blurrier(and darker). I've had a few dreams/LDs, where lucid or not, I could read. It was strange, and perhaps spent too much time during a LD looking at papers, notes, etc., and how I could read the entire paper for example, and it looked just like IRL. I could look away, and look back and it still was the same text, and still crisp/defined. On the downside, I don't think I can use blurry text as a dream sign, I did recognize that I was dreaming irregardless, but worried that I need to do something about this as the dreamstuff are changing.

      Questions->Is it normal for dreams to change with meditation/dream yoga?
      In the past(& currently), I tied my dream signs/RC to external indicators, I see I need to stop anchoring myself to the ever changing dream state to induce lucidity, I have a question but not sure how to ask...do the practices somehow create an internal anchor of awareness?

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      I love your observation! You are a great student.

      It is normal and expected that by practicing meditation or dream yoga that the experience of dreaming will drastically change. I am not sure how anyone gets far in LDing who does not practice similar things while awake. You will find that you will no longer need to focus on items in the dream causing lucidity, but instead will understand what it feels like to be alive to an extent that you can 'feel' when you are dreaming.

      Here is a recent thread that has some very wise members discussing the topic of awareness training and how it effects LDing, http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Thanks! I really don't think I would have reached my summations without contemplating what you had written earlier in light of the events that transpired.

      You will find that you will no longer need to focus on items in the dream causing lucidity, but instead will understand what it feels like to be alive to an extent that you can 'feel' when you are dreaming.
      I really like this, it's inspiring. So awesome.


      Thank you for the link too! I'll be off on traveling/visiting family, so I imagine it'll be a good test of ADA IRL.
      Best Regards!
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      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.-Level 1 Part Deux. subcategory: Noisy People Sounds/words, ADA So I continued on, it's been fun! Combining the ADA has been very helpful, although I've found it tricky to balance between internal-external awareness, for example, when we found out about my hubby's friend dying suddenly, I tried to listen openly and deeply to hubby talk about how shocked and saddened he was(it was a sudden/unexpected death), whilst also observing, but not suppressing, nor loosing my objectivity(?) of watching my own internal wave of sadness. So still some juggling going on.

      So, during vacation, I noticed a pattern that I found buggy during the listening to noisy people, or conversations with hubby. Normally, I don't focus on trigger words with people in general, trigger words meaning that I can say a key word(or phrase) to elicit a knee jerk reaction(pos/neg) of the subject in the manner I choose.

      Anyway, sometimes I noticed that there are certain repeated lexiconic and behavioral patterns that pop up in a short time frame, that kinda make me go huh? One of that happened was/is words, how if I said anything that indicated less than definite, the receiver would take that as improbable. I found that annoying, as to me probable is similar to highly likely or pretty sure or 80-90% sure, so I noticed there was a considerable disparity between what message I thought I was conveying to that which information actually was being received(such as in directions). Naturally, if the error was on my part, I choose to correct/modify my choice in lexicon or deal with it, also, I like to understand why this occurred as it does seem to pop up a bit and I do think that I may be missing some part of subconscious dialog or unconscious exchange people seem to have that I just don't get.

      So by analyzing and comparing past episodes of trigger words, social experiments I've done on family members(I thought it was funny they really didn't catch the pattern of my repeated exchange, until I pointed it out.), and discussing with hubby why he didn't believe me(even thought the same thing kept happening), our respective philosophies of language, and using him as a base model of understanding "normal" people. I came to the following conclusions/hypotheses...

      Observations->Perhaps this may be crude and an unrefined way of saying this, so I'll try to phrase this well......Words are empty, they are meaningless. They are like empty vessels, and we fill them with meaning.

      So by perhaps a consensus agreement, a few(or majority of) people can agree on a base line of what that word means, like love, there is this general accepted idea of the meaning. I've always thought of words as having a "fuzzy" meaning, or have a bit of wiggle-room but hubby was telling me how words are concrete, and meanings, absolute across large spans of people. I naturally disagreed with him as that was just illusionary, given the nuances of how life experience can color the word, and there are so many inflections/nuances that context will divulge the intent of information as well as body language.

      I saw that the problem that was occurring for me, was that I was misunderstanding where other people's base line. I operate from a less-than concrete lexicon of which I've been brandished about numerously, but prefer it nonetheless and just operate from a "different" base so to speak. So, I like to think of things being indefinite, and how there may be a "core" consensus agreement, but personal subjectivity can alter the base line and cause misunderstanding, I "thought" that was common, but now I think that perhaps people just really mistake their perceptual reality as an absolute. It's more like, they mistake their thoughts for reality or their perception of the word for the true-absolute-concrete meaning.

      Given that I like empowerment, I saw how it seems that people forget that they give meaning to the words, and not that the words give meaning to the people/receiver. They give their power away to the word, or empower it, but forget that somewhere along the lines of growing up perhaps that is what's going on. So then when a word triggers a person, they give their power away to the word, rather than bring it back to themselves, they externalize, think this word has this inherit meaning, when it only has as much meaning as they give it.

      Dreamtime stuff->I've heard people will dream of write poems and works of art, then make it IRL. I had dream where I was writing a poem to a friend for her birthday, I thought I'd share it....it goes: roses are red, so is bacon, look! You've made it past Macon. (Note: she actually did drive past the town of Macon recently) I was really happy in the dream I could read, write, and rhyme something with bacon.

      Questions->Open to criticism and what not. It's getting late, and hopefully this all makes sense.

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      LOL! A bacon is a bacon, by any other name, and would smell just as yummy.

      Write this word on a piece of paper ---Jesus--- and ask your husband what the word is.

      Then show him the phrase--- I found Jesus at church ---

      follow it up with this written phrase --- He then hid again, and I found Jesus under the slide, they boy does not hide well---
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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