Chakra visualisation help

The book Tibetan yoga of dream and sleep was, like many others here it seems, responsible for igniting my interest in dream yoga, but as an instructional book there are many qns I have about the teachings.

Whilst it is off the topic with the lessons presented here I hope I might get some advice from those familiar with the practises in the book.

The first stage of the Main Practise talks about visualising a red lotus and a Tibetan A at the throat chakra as we fall asleep. My question relates to the visualisation.

I find it difficult to visualise the image because it is outside of my vision space so to speak. In other words when I visualise the lotus I principally sense/see it in my field of vision. Trying to 'feel' it at the chakra inevitably leads to me visualising it to a degree in my vision - which isn't my throat!

To deal with this, Last night I was experimenting with visualising my body from an external point of view - like a mirror beside my bed for example. This helped me to much more strongly visualise the lotus as I could 'see' myself as a whole as opposed to it only being 'below my chin'. Does anyone know whether visualising me from an external perspective is detrimental to the practise?

And/or have some advice on visualising the lotus at the throat chakra in the way it is presented in the book?

Finally are there any implications with mixing these kind of visualisations of chakras with mantras employed by 'contemporary' LDers. So mantras people recite that are not linked to dream yoga. Or should the practise be left as presented in the book. In this instance it doesn't explicitly state to recite a mantra at this part of the practise.

Thank you!
JB

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Originally Posted by imJB

The book Tibetan yoga of dream and sleep was, like many others here it seems, responsible for igniting my interest in dream yoga, but as an instructional book there are many qns I have about the teachings.

Whilst it is off the topic with the lessons presented here I hope I might get some advice from those familiar with the practises in the book.

The first stage of the Main Practise talks about visualising a red lotus and a Tibetan A at the throat chakra as we fall asleep. My question relates to the visualisation.

I find it difficult to visualise the image because it is outside of my vision space so to speak. In other words when I visualise the lotus I principally sense/see it in my field of vision. Trying to 'feel' it at the chakra inevitably leads to me visualising it to a degree in my vision - which isn't my throat!

To deal with this, Last night I was experimenting with visualising my body from an external point of view - like a mirror beside my bed for example. This helped me to much more strongly visualise the lotus as I could 'see' myself as a whole as opposed to it only being 'below my chin'. Does anyone know whether visualising me from an external perspective is detrimental to the practise?

And/or have some advice on visualising the lotus at the throat chakra in the way it is presented in the book?

Finally are there any implications with mixing these kind of visualisations of chakras with mantras employed by 'contemporary' LDers. So mantras people recite that are not linked to dream yoga. Or should the practise be left as presented in the book. In this instance it doesn't explicitly state to recite a mantra at this part of the practise.

Thank you!
JB

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Do not feel like you should stick to the practice as presented in that book. It is kind of a cool book, but I was not overly impressed. Flexibility is far more important than tradition. Of course a tradition is something some feel 100% compelled to follow rigidly, but not me. I want to go beyond what is traditionally passed down and deep into what can only be experienced and not expressed (and have). The use of mantras is a wonderful tool in LDing, so start exploring it if you wish.

Putting that aside, lets address the core of your question. When your eyes are closed what is the source of your inner vision? Is it still your eyes? When you dream, is it your eyes that are sending the signals your brain uses to create the visual field? In fact, it is not. The inner world is only tided to our traditional trained responses and expectations until we can get past that. You expect vision to take place directly in front of your face, but internal vision is not limited by the location of the eyes. It takes a lot of relearning, and I am not saying it is easy. You will notice I am teaching many lessons and have yet to get to chakras? I think developing the skills in my lessons develop the inner world to a state better able to work with energy and chakras.

But lets jump into it as far as this one question goes. I want you to close your eyes and try to forget about your face and the position of your body. Simply visualize that you are looking down a well. Despite the fact that your eyes are facing forward or up, you are to imagine you are looking down a well. Get over the feeling that you are looking forward. As you get past believing all vision must take place in front of your eyes, imagine this well is going from your crown down to your feet/ If you are currently at the level of your eyes then looking down is looking towards your throat and up is towards your crown. Imagine that you can see something way off down in the well. Now imagine THAT YOU ARE FLOATING DOWN TOWARDS IT. IT SHOULD BE IMAGINED THAT IT IS GETTING BIGGER AND NEARER, NOT BECAUSE IT IS RISING, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE MOVING DOWN FROM THE EYES AND NOW ARE USING INTERNAL VISION FOCUSED AT YOUR THROAT. You can, with practice view any of the chakra by actually moving your internal vision up and down this 'well' and going to that location.

Sorry, it is not an easy cliché bit of advice. It is fairly advanced mysticism, so you should assume it will take a shift in how you process information and looking at things you thought you understood (like vision) in new and strange ways.

Good luck. I have said I will only teach advanced energy work to those who read all of my printed lessons and show they have worked on them. I may answer one more question on such advanced topics if you wish, and I will certainly have no problem sharing general (non-secret/ mystic) ideas with you. Please consider working through the skills I set forth, I think they are the best way to start.

Hi Sivason,

Thank you very much for your advice here. I take your point about jumping around on the lessons and the need to progress in a linear fashion. You've obviously noticed a few of my questions on some of the more advanced threads, alongside my comments that I am a beginner. I think it's fair to say that the book has influenced my direction somewhat and like you point out it is hard for me to not be drawn toward the 'traditions' of the book and respect the fact they come from such a long linage - as a 'scientist sort' it's hard to argue with that kind of evidence. And without a personal teacher it feels 'smart' to adhere to a direction.

I will try take on board your recommendation of maintaining flexibility. To that end I am trying to work onto a personal schedule to LDing which at the moment is a bit of a hybrid between so e of the images in the book and the DiILD/MILd techniques presented here (obviously many links). The mystics of the book is interesting to me so I think it will assist to motivate me to be consistent.

In regards to Dream Yoga and your lessons, I can definitely see they are long term focus. My challenge, knowing my personality, is not to try all at once and ensuring I build my practise. At present I am trying to improve my concentration/awareness via Zhine meditation (at present about 2x 15mins sessions per day to start), your awareness meditations often as a move throw my day. The visualisation skills you described in the intermediate lesson are fascinating to me and despite it being a few levels from my beginner level I seem to have some success with it. I feel capable of 'summoning' the primary colours and variations. Patchy colour admittedly but I am able to see a distinction between colours as I shift my intentions between them. Exciting stuff for a novice! Ha ha

I've bee practising this as part of my zhine meditation (at the end). My goal is to increase the vividness and colour in my dreams so I hope these will assist.

I really like your description of the 'well' vision. It actually feels very intuitive and I will try to use it in my visualisations. I'm confident I can apply it.

I haven't had success in being lucid yet (although many years ago I got to stage of having two, it took me a couple of months to get there back then) or even RCing in a dream I must admit but I have seen a huge increase in my dream recall which to me is the solid foundation I am trying to build.

/endmonologue!!!

All the best