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    Thread: The quest for enlightenment, lucid dreams and dream yoga of HeWhoShapes

    1. #1
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      Cool The quest for enlightenment, lucid dreams and dream yoga of HeWhoShapes

      This whole "dream yoga" thing looks quite fascinating, so i will give it a go!

      I started doing v1 step 1 2 days ago, but only started seriously now, so i probably need a few days of work on that.

      Gotta feeling this will be amazing, let's hope i'm right!

      edit: To be quite honest, even after reading the introduction I really didn't understand the concept of yoga very much and how is it different than meditation(assuming it is different) so if you could explain that to me I would be grateful, I love to learn!!
      Last edited by HeWhoShapes; 07-12-2014 at 12:29 PM.
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      Meditation is a specific mental practice with many verities. The term yoga means disciplined art. So most yogas will use some forms of meditation. Perfecting a sport or instrument would also be forms of yoga, and probably do involve meditation like frames of mind.
      These lessons are put together because they greatly enhance the part of the brain that you use to LD or dream in general. Many students have benefited from the general mind expanding nature of this course regardless of their goals related to dreaming.
      HeWhoShapes and AlexaMtz like this.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Basic Skills: Lesson #1: Progress so far...

      Ok, wow these were some really crazy 2 weeks I had. I did practice the sensory awareness meditation and i'm currently in level 2, and it is hard! like REALLY REALLY HARD!! espically if youv'e had sleeping problems lately and your country is kinda bombarded and in a big mess lately.

      But actually level 1 was really good, I did it for a few days and I think i'm pretty good. I heard all kinds of sounds from people walking outside to birds and my computer fan(my computer is in my room you see).

      Then came level 2 I kinda started slaking and the madness described in brief above kicked in and now I don't really know if I should move on to level 3 because I might not have adequate practice.
      That being said, when I did practice, it was AMAZING!!! hearing all of the sounds was really interesting and fun for me, even though I got bored after awhile I even fell asleep several times! (it was just so relaxing for me...).

      So should I just move on or continue work on level 3?

      Also a really wierd question, but my bed is located to the right of my window, which means I really exercised my left ear to catch all of the noises from the outside. Does focusing on one ear more that the other is a good or bad thing?

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      I would not worry about which ear gets the most noise. Try doing exercise #3, but also occasionally go back to each earlier lesson. As you move through the skills you will be able to find you have also improved on the earlier lessons. It is good that this relaxes you. A big part of meditation in general is learning to relax, even if you accidently fall asleep.
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      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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      Yeah I had a bit of a haitus with this one :\

      But I shall return!!

      Basically since last time i found that after the auditory excersices I found myself to be more aware of sounds in my eviorment, which i assume was the point.

      I did a bit of the "feeling intense world" thing, but not very serious and I will come back to it, i hope to give you results next week...

      Just too add for my defence, I have been doing a ton of ADA\mindfulness and since dream yoga and ADA are similar(if not the same?) then i guess my return to dream yoga would be easier...
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      My(long term) lucid dreaming goals!
      []Break my dryspell []Telekenesis []"Know" Scarlett Johannsen
      []Visit ancient rome(preferably as a jewish migrant\trader)
      []Destroy rome as a germanic barbarian invader
      []Talk to Gandalf about lucid dreaming and philosophy
      []Talk to my subconsious about improving dream recall and getting more lucids!!!!

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      I started doing vipassana meditations a week or 2 ago, still need to get back on that dream yoga though...
      My(long term) lucid dreaming goals!
      []Break my dryspell []Telekenesis []"Know" Scarlett Johannsen
      []Visit ancient rome(preferably as a jewish migrant\trader)
      []Destroy rome as a germanic barbarian invader
      []Talk to Gandalf about lucid dreaming and philosophy
      []Talk to my subconsious about improving dream recall and getting more lucids!!!!

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      HeWhoShapes,

      Congratulations for realizing the potential value of Buddhist practices!

      Out of curiosity, what method and teacher of Vipassana meditation do you follow?

      I don't practice strictly Vipassana meditation, but rather I practice a combination of Samatha and Vipassana. I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of Buddhist teachings and practices, but the goal of Samatha practice is to develop tranquility and concentration, whereas the goal of Vipassana is to develop insight. According to the Pali Canon, the Buddha did not separate these two aspects of meditation into two different practices, but rather taught them as a unified whole, both being integral parts of one's development in a mutually supportive fashion.

      I initially started with Vipassana practice after some of my friends went on a ten day Vipassana retreat and reported their experiences, but after a decent amount of studying and practicing, I came to discover that the development of Samatha was a necessary foundation for Vipassana, and switched to a Samatha/Vipassana method in which one first focuses on developing tranquility and concentration, and then as a natural progression begins to experience the insights that can only arise once a significant degree of Samatha is cultivated. I have made wonderful progress as a result of this change in my practice and I recommend it to anyone starting out with Vipassana alone. I also recommend daily study of the Dhamma as a way to really solidify your practice and encourage a lasting wholesome change of perception throughout one's daily life. There are tons of free resources online, such as books, essays, and audio talks. I especially recommend the teachings of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Ajahn Brahm, and Joseph Goldstein, for both methods of practice and Dhamma teachings.

      As far as Dream Yoga goes, while it was not taught by the Buddha, but was an invention of a later generation of monks, it certainly has its benefits, as it incorporates several aspects of the Nobel 8 Fold Path such as right view, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. It also offers potentially transformative experiences and insights into the nature of self and reality which many Theravada Buddhist practitioners choose not to incorporate into their practice because it is not the Buddha's original teaching.

      The end goal of Dream Yoga, as you may know, is to develop one's awareness to a high enough degree that one is able to die consciously and become awakened upon death during the "Bardo" or intermediary stage of the life/rebirth cycle, probably what most would refer to as the "afterlife." The main problem I see with this practice is that one must take it in faith that the Bardo exists, that it is possible to become awakened after physical death, and that rebirth is a reality, while hoping that all this work in the dream state isn't for nothing. On the other hand, the Theravada practice of meditation leads to tangible and experiential changes and benefits so that it becomes more than faith that liberation is possible through this path, as one experiences a slightly greater degree of liberation with each day of skillful practice. But I believe there are certainly benefits to the practice of Dream Yoga aside from the end goal of becoming liberated after death, and I think it can serve as a "last chance attempt" to become liberated during this life if one's daily practice of the 8 Fold Path does not achieve this goal before death. I use Dream Yoga to compliment my daily practice of meditation and the 8 Fold Path, although I do not believe it is crucial.

    8. #8
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      My awareness lessons are in the same vane as ADA and others. I feel however, that these lessons actively build a higher capacity for awareness.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    9. #9
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      Ok don't worry I'm getting there!

      I'm starting to work on level 2 of touch awareness and I will post my experiences. Did it twice today and in the second time I felt a very strange blissful feeling of calm which definitely motivates me to continue!

      I also think I should move into the intermidate stuff, especially the visualization which I want to practice on, plus saying that these will improve DILDS and WILDS really wants me to practice it!

      In short I'm really motivated, but time to turn it into practice!
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      One quick question sivason. Once I'm done practicing the exercises you put forth, I feel inclined to ask the question: what next? Rehearsing them, adding new ones?
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      Don't worry I haven't forgotten!

      Quote Originally Posted by VinceField View Post
      HeWhoShapes,

      Congratulations for realizing the potential value of Buddhist practices!

      Out of curiosity, what method and teacher of Vipassana meditation do you follow?
      that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNmxxbqJMxI

      Quote Originally Posted by VinceField View Post
      I don't practice strictly Vipassana meditation, but rather I practice a combination of Samatha and Vipassana. I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of Buddhist teachings and practices, but the goal of Samatha practice is to develop tranquility and concentration, whereas the goal of Vipassana is to develop insight. According to the Pali Canon, the Buddha did not separate these two aspects of meditation into two different practices, but rather taught them as a unified whole, both being integral parts of one's development in a mutually supportive fashion.
      I'm afraid I know nothing of such practices, I am going to lectures about buddhaism so maybe the meditation techniques will popl up eventually!

      Quote Originally Posted by VinceField View Post
      I initially started with Vipassana practice after some of my friends went on a ten day Vipassana retreat and reported their experiences, but after a decent amount of studying and practicing, I came to discover that the development of Samatha was a necessary foundation for Vipassana, and switched to a Samatha/Vipassana method in which one first focuses on developing tranquility and concentration, and then as a natural progression begins to experience the insights that can only arise once a significant degree of Samatha is cultivated. I have made wonderful progress as a result of this change in my practice and I recommend it to anyone starting out with Vipassana alone. I also recommend daily study of the Dhamma as a way to really solidify your practice and encourage a lasting wholesome change of perception throughout one's daily life. There are tons of free resources online, such as books, essays, and audio talks. I especially recommend the teachings of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Ajahn Brahm, and Joseph Goldstein, for both methods of practice and Dhamma teachings.
      like I said, I know nothing about the different types(not proud of it too ) but I guess i'll get into it if I find good books/knowlage about it.

      Quote Originally Posted by VinceField View Post
      As far as Dream Yoga goes, while it was not taught by the Buddha, but was an invention of a later generation of monks, it certainly has its benefits, as it incorporates several aspects of the Nobel 8 Fold Path such as right view, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. It also offers potentially transformative experiences and insights into the nature of self and reality which many Theravada Buddhist practitioners choose not to incorporate into their practice because it is not the Buddha's original teaching.

      The end goal of Dream Yoga, as you may know, is to develop one's awareness to a high enough degree that one is able to die consciously and become awakened upon death during the "Bardo" or intermediary stage of the life/rebirth cycle, probably what most would refer to as the "afterlife." The main problem I see with this practice is that one must take it in faith that the Bardo exists, that it is possible to become awakened after physical death, and that rebirth is a reality, while hoping that all this work in the dream state isn't for nothing. On the other hand, the Theravada practice of meditation leads to tangible and experiential changes and benefits so that it becomes more than faith that liberation is possible through this path, as one experiences a slightly greater degree of liberation with each day of skillful practice. But I believe there are certainly benefits to the practice of Dream Yoga aside from the end goal of becoming liberated after death, and I think it can serve as a "last chance attempt" to become liberated during this life if one's daily practice of the 8 Fold Path does not achieve this goal before death. I use Dream Yoga to compliment my daily practice of meditation and the 8 Fold Path, although I do not believe it is crucial.

      Very interesting stuff! unfortunately i'm not sure there is an afterlife, I mainly wish to study dream yoga to lucid dream(an idea i thought about is that i try to mantain consiousness from the waking state to the dreaming state before bed and enter sleep with that consiousness, kinda like WILD exect I'll be lucid the entire time and never lose consiousness!. No idea why i added that, guess I just got excited ny the concept! XD )

      I have heard of the 2 different types of buddhaism(thedrevada and mahyana) but again, I know nothing of their practices(except the dream yoga is mahyana and vipassana thedrevada correct?).


      for sivason: I kinda slacked lately, but i did do alot of sensory meditation and found that doing it with my eyes open is WAYYYYYYY more challenging then with eyes closed.

      I also did a little bit of visualization practice before bed but i always fell asleep after a while(though i did see alot of intense colors like bright purple and green, almost got a WILD while doing it!).

      Now i'm currently working on step 4 which i tried yesterday but fell asleep in cuz i was really tired this week but i'll stick with it!

      I also thought about the goal i mentioned to VinceField about maintaing costant consiousness as we go to sleep. I think this is the secret of many dream yogis, there awake all night because they bring their awareness with them to sleep and never leave it!

      I think if i'm able to maintain consiousness the whole night i will be a LDing master and i will never be asleep, only lucid the whole night!(definately easier said than done...)
      sivason likes this.
      My(long term) lucid dreaming goals!
      []Break my dryspell []Telekenesis []"Know" Scarlett Johannsen
      []Visit ancient rome(preferably as a jewish migrant\trader)
      []Destroy rome as a germanic barbarian invader
      []Talk to Gandalf about lucid dreaming and philosophy
      []Talk to my subconsious about improving dream recall and getting more lucids!!!!

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by HeWhoShapes View Post
      Don't worry I haven't forgotten!
      No worries friend, my words were for your benefit alone. But thanks for the thought.

      I don't know if you noticed, but the first comment of the video reads, "this is not vipassana." Many following comments are of a similar nature. I'd recommend researching the techniques and methods of ordained monks who have had proper training. You never know what you're getting from outside sources.

      I'm afraid I know nothing of such practices, I am going to lectures about buddhaism so maybe the meditation techniques will pop up eventually!

      like I said, I know nothing about the different types(not proud of it too ) but I guess i'll get into it if I find good books/knowlage about it.
      Well, here are two excellent starting points: two short books by two of the most respected teachers in Theravada Buddhism with detailed meditation instructions, as well as related knowledge of the Buddhist path related to the practices that is crucial to understand if one is to progress with their meditative practices.

      Thanissaro Bhikkhu: With Each and Every Breath

      Ajahn Brahm: The Basic Method of Meditation



      Very interesting stuff! unfortunately i'm not sure there is an afterlife, I mainly wish to study dream yoga to lucid dream(an idea i thought about is that i try to mantain consiousness from the waking state to the dreaming state before bed and enter sleep with that consiousness, kinda like WILD exect I'll be lucid the entire time and never lose consiousness!. No idea why i added that, guess I just got excited ny the concept! XD )
      What you have described is WILD, although it is far more difficult to achieve it at the beginning of one's sleep cycle than it is in the early morning when one has already had some rest. Also, I believe you have made a false correlation with the idea of loosing consciousness. WILDS may or may not include a break in consciousness. WILDing before sleep will not ensure that one will not loose consciousness during the execution of the method- in fact, it is probably just the opposite, as consciousness is most prone to remaining aware after it has already had some rest.

      I have heard of the 2 different types of buddhaism(thedrevada and mahyana) but again, I know nothing of their practices(except the dream yoga is mahyana and vipassana thedrevada correct?).
      Correct.

    13. #13
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      not much progress with level 4, it really is hard. i sense things a bit and the fall asleep. I think i'll move to " mixing it up" and try this after that
      sivason likes this.
      My(long term) lucid dreaming goals!
      []Break my dryspell []Telekenesis []"Know" Scarlett Johannsen
      []Visit ancient rome(preferably as a jewish migrant\trader)
      []Destroy rome as a germanic barbarian invader
      []Talk to Gandalf about lucid dreaming and philosophy
      []Talk to my subconsious about improving dream recall and getting more lucids!!!!

    14. #14
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      Sorry it has took me so long to reply. Sounds like you are having good results and experiencing interesting things.

      When you finish lessons, remember them and take the general ideas to live in a manner that uses these skills. The general experience is one of subtle changes to your awareness in daily life. Do not put a lesson aside, just adapt so that you have the awareness gained and keep it.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

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