DVA Reorganization

Okay....so now that Shift is out, we need to start thinking about anything that needs to be changed at DVA.


Here is the plan at the moment. I will try to finish Shift's class as best I can. I'll have time off from school in a couple of weeks to do any major work on DVA. In the meantime, please give any suggestions or input or ideas about anything that should be changed.


So, what I think was done right:

Personally I think the way we started doing classes went pretty well. Lectures in chat are really fun and give students time to ask questions in real time and get clarification on things. Having DJs for students all together is also really useful, because it's easier to keep track of student DJs. The badge system is a fun idea, and gives people motivation, so I'm hoping to keep that. The syllabuses are useful because it might help us all cover the same basic info that's needed for each class, and we can all look at them to make sure we haven't forgotten anything important.

What I'm on the fence about:

Homework assignments were not too bad, however, I've never been a big believer in homework so I think that keeping it on the lighter side is best--something that takes less than ten minutes. It's helpful to have them because you can see who was paying attention and see how much people are really learning. Having a final quiz is useful for making sure people remembered the key points, and of course it gives you a solid reason to give a badge. I do have concerns of classes being too demanding of people; on the other hand, I'm not sure how much students want out of it as far as getting really involved and doing a lot for the class.


What I think needs to go:

The student applications (probably gone now anyway) are/were a little bit long, and a few of the questions were a little condescending (I think there was one like "why should you be chosen as a student?").

I think having prerequisites clogs up the whole program and slows it down. Most of my students in the intro class really didn't need it. I think the SoS and SP classes are unnecessary--they could either be combined into one short class or covered at the beginning of a WILD class.

So while we could keep the Intro class, I believe the main classes ought to be recall & Dreamsigns, DILD, WILD, and Dream Control. I would also love to see some different classes based on exploration and experimentation, for example having more adept LDers complete certain lucid tasks like trying to get the lights on in a dream.


When it comes to teaching, unless it's something solid like sleep stages, it's mostly opinion of the teacher. We shouldn't be setting ourselves as the end-all experts of anything, IMO, it could be more like an expanded adoption program, where each teacher has their own experiences and advice and knowledge to offer. I'm hoping that the profs/students will have a more friendly relationship, in that the teachers aren't putting themselves up above students.

As a whole, DVA is much too complicated and intimidating. I think it's best to keep it simple and friendly and fun. :)

I personally like the idea of the webinar or workshop format. Schedule a series of classes to run for a week or month. Anyone can attend and participate. No pre-requisits(sp), no formal sign up process.

A professor/student friendlier version of the program would be a nice change. Most of the things that were discussed dealt with eliminating "what if" factors, and setting a standard to who was teach classes. I think we should try to find out who would be willing to teach classes at a less stringent manner than before.

As for the homework, I still think it's good as long it's nothing too big. Like mine for dream control was to look at the current TOTM and write down how you would see yourself completing it and describe what types of control methods they would be considered. That takes like five minutes? And it also helps the student think about achieving things in lucid dreams. IMO if the homework motivates in some kind of method, and it's not super long then it should be considered, but not required for a class. Other classes like DILD/WILD ect could just use tests for badges.

As for the prereqs, they bogged down how the classes were being taught. As for SP/SOS is concerned, as long as the meat and bones of it are involved in the WILD course then I'm all for it being dissolved. If a simple syllabus to include the basics for a pre WILD course can be created I'm all for that too. I just want to stop seeing "was this SP?" on the forums at one point in time....or at least have more people that can answer them in a more knowledgeable manner. Keep in mind that these people with badges are probably going to be answering questions in the forums, and it's going to mean something to people in the on topic section.

As for the apps...all we would need is basic time available info. Unless the professor was willing to change the course time, or the professor decided to just make a post saying "blank class is going on at X, if you can make theses times and dates, post here". It's a good way of making sure that the classes will be filled with people who are willing to learn, and will show up. It will also be a good way to make sure class limit are set.

I guess it all depends on who's willing to teach once the new standards come out. Hopefully we'll end up with more people willing to teach classes than last time.

I've moved a lot of the threads from the staff area and oaks lab to the filing cabinet. They have 5 day expiring redirects on them.

EDIT:
Also I put temporary brief descriptions of threads that were stickied and now have nothing but a "."

Cool. Thanks Akono.

I'll be putting up an ammouncement sometime tonight that DVA will be going under restructuring and opening back up in a few weeks.


The application system...I don't think is such a bad thing--at the very least it helps with timezones if we'll be doing anything in-chat. But I agree that they should be much shorter. I think the more detailed questions, if we have them, can be asked in the class forums as a sort of getting-to-know-you thing for the class.

I think that some classes can be offered that don't have in-chat lectures and are entirely forum-based like workshops. That's another option. If this is done, it would still be nice to have some set times that students can go into the chatroom for Q&A sessions.


Agreed that we should be giving people basic info about sleep stages, SP, HH, and all that, especially before a WILD class. I'm just not too keen on a whole class on the subject of SP or SoS.


Seeker: I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand, I'd like to keep it completely open. On the other hand I want to have some way to keep the badges for finishing classes because I think it's a really neat idea. Personally I liked having a smaller class because I felt like the students got to know each other more and it was easy for me to interact with every single person in the class and help them inidividually. On the other hand, I don't like DVA being so restrictive about letting people into classes. I definitely think prerequisites should generally be thrown out.

Great ideas :D How have the classes gone, so far? Have people been committed, shown up to the lectures, and completed the homework?

I'm with Seeker, where a workshop type setup sounds more realistic. I only say that, because I don't expect much from people. It is more open, so people can follow along even if they don't want to commit. If the current system seems to be working, then lets stick with it. You guys know better than I do.

RB: I was really surprised at how active people were. Out of ten students, one of them never showed up to anything. The remaining nine averaged about 4/5 classes--only a few of them only missed one class or so. Pretty much everyone did every homework assignment and kept their journals up, and everyone got at least 8/10 on the final exam. So I would say it was pretty successful. :)

I'm still on the fence on the workshop stuff. On the one hand, other than a few student DJs there was really no reason to make everything so secret/private as far as the actual classes. On the other hand, there's something enticing about being allowed in special/private forums and getting badges for completing classes.

I could go either way, and I'm think there could even be a compromise between these two things, where it would be easy to join the class a person wants, but for example the Library and possibly even the Classrooms would still be invisible to other members. I dunno. :P

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Originally Posted by Naiya

Seeker: I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand, I'd like to keep it completely open. On the other hand I want to have some way to keep the badges for finishing classes because I think it's a really neat idea. Personally I liked having a smaller class because I felt like the students got to know each other more and it was easy for me to interact with every single person in the class and help them inidividually. On the other hand, I don't like DVA being so restrictive about letting people into classes.

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I feel the same way. I hope we come up with some kind of means for compromise. I know I'll sound a little bit like a broken record, but if/when we get more professors to teach classes there will be less issues revolving around how many people can get into a class.

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Great ideas :D How have the classes gone, so far? Have people been committed, shown up to the lectures, and completed the homework?

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From what I've seen, yes. The only short coming I've seen with the program student wise, is people coming to classes a little late. Other than that, it's been good on other areas such as helping boost IRC chat numbers from time to time.

Yeah more professors is a big one, that would make things a ton easier.

It sounds like a good thing to do might be to have a "professors workshop". I would be willing to bet there are at least some people who might be good at being a professor and enjoy it, but are not confident enough. If we had a class to sort of get potential professors up to speed in the same format that DVA classes are held in, then it would not only get them to be more confident about the material but also how they would be teaching in general.

I would like to do something in DVA...I just don't know what exactly. I don't really have the time to be a professor and my availability changes too much.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It sounds like a good thing to do might be to have a "professors workshop". I would be willing to bet there are at least some people who might be good at being a professor and enjoy it, but are not confident enough. If we had a class to sort of get potential professors up to speed in the same format that DVA classes are held in, then it would not only get them to be more confident about the material but also how they would be teaching in general.

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This is a good idea. I'd love to be a professor but I'm also not really confident about teaching a class. I had been meaning to go through Shift's chat logs to see how she was teaching things to get an idea of what was expected of a professor etc., did she manage to delete them all? :? I think a really simple workshop would suffice, nothing major. I think professors should be "certified" to teach certain courses though. Maybe? A simple workshop of some kind could take care of this and encourage more professors to take on courses.

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

did she manage to delete them all? :? I think a really simple workshop would suffice, nothing major. I think professors should be "certified" to teach certain courses though. Maybe?

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Yeah, she deleted all the class chats.

If someone can make a syllabus of what they're teaching, then it's safe to say that they should be able to teach without a "certification". A syllabus tells a lot about what the professor knows, and what parts of the subject they're going to discuss. The staff should be able to look at them and see what needs to be added, or taken away. If they're oblivious to what's needed, then all we have to do is direct them to some information.

I don't think a certification is needed really. If anything we could have dry runs of classes within the staff to make sure things are up to speed. If they don't feel confident with that, then we could have a staff member sit in on classes to assist just in case the professor doesn't know something. Of course it shouldn't be talked over the class...but just a friendly pm saying "need help on this one" or something.

From my understanding we're getting away from the complication of things right? If people want to teach a particular subject, then that alone already establishes that they have knowledge on the subject. Once they write out the syllabus, and it's looked over, then it's go time, or no time.

I think a professors workshop is an awesome idea. It doesn't need to be a requirement for teaching but for anyone unsure about teaching, it can help build confidence. Remember, no one expects you to know everything about everything. For example you can answer tough questions about wild by saying it isn't your forte and to forward those questions to someone else. A lot of classes don't really require a lot more than basic knowledge and applying that. The logs should still be up for my class, btw. :)

Good points Akono! Especially about the "uncomplicating" things. :) I agree.

And thanks Naiya, I will definitely check out your class logs. :)

I would sit in on a professor's workshop. Time commitment would be a factor in whether I could actually teach a class, but it's something I'd consider. I don't know if I'd be the best person, really, not being a very methodical LDer :cheeky: The only 'induction' I use is suggestion/incubation, and really just deciding to focus on LDing is enough to ramp up frequency and intensity. I've never even kept a regular DJ or done RCs while awake, just took time to think about my dreams throughout the day and practiced mindfulness. I could possibly do some kind of class on mindfulness and lucid dreaming, but that's more about practice than conveying concepts.

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Originally Posted by Taosaur

I would sit in on a professor's workshop. Time commitment would be a factor in whether I could actually teach a class, but it's something I'd consider. I don't know if I'd be the best person, really, not being a very methodical LDer :cheeky: The only 'induction' I use is suggestion/incubation, and really just deciding to focus on LDing is enough to ramp up frequency and intensity. I've never even kept a regular DJ or done RCs while awake, just took time to think about my dreams throughout the day and practiced mindfulness. I could possibly do some kind of class on mindfulness and lucid dreaming, but that's more about practice than conveying concepts.

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That's fine--I'm thinking we can do this in such a way that no one will be obligated to teach afterwards. For example, if you don't have the time now, you might decide later down the line that you do have time. :)

Either way, all staff is always welcome to sit in on any classes, and before any of this stuff with Shift happened I was hoping to hold a few staff-only classes to give anyone interested more well-rounded knowledge of dreaming and lucid dreaming. Not to mention an ulterior motive to get any staffers back into LDing if they haven't been into it for a while. :cheeky:

Reuploaded some PDFs that were missing from the professors resources thread. Also edited the thread so it shows Aquanina as the original poster.

As for this thread I was thinking we could make our own email account to send anonymous information. something like DVAevaluation same password, and have them send it to an account called DVAstaff. Or use the dreamviews email account depending on how much mail it gets.

Anyone else from staff wanna chime in on this?

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Originally Posted by Akono

As for this thread I was thinking we could make our own email account to send anonymous information. something like DVAevaluation same password, and have them send it to an account called DVAstaff. Or use the dreamviews email account depending on how much mail it gets.[/FONT]

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Ah, yes. Definitely. We'll need our own email account.

I think I might have grabbed a few pdfs that shift posted regarding Sleep Paralysis. I need to find them.

Email account, yes I agree. :)

Anywho, finals are pretty much over for me, so it's time to really get started fixing DVA.


So -- To prevent further drama and other BS, we've moved the rest of Shift's crap and everything else in DVA to the Graveyard. Any individual posts and resources other staffers made or anything else that needs to be retrieved in the future can still be accessed but I would like to leave any threads which Shift created or made contributions to in the Graveyard.


(This doesn't include student DJs, if they want them back, then go ahead and move them.)

Shift is getting her wish. Everything of hers will not be used by us. I would like for us to start from scratch.

Now, DVA is not going to be the bloated, complicated, intimidating monster it once was. I would like to keep it simple and friendly whenever possible. I'm asking all staffers to please contribute anything they can from opinions and suggestions to offering to teach if possible. To help, check out the new DVA forums. Thanks! :shadewink:

Sounds good Naiya. I pretty much agree with all of your ideas about the DVA. I think pre-reqs should be abolished. I also think that SoS and SP do not need their own classes. Really I think we could get by with just Dream Signs & Recall, WILD, DILD, Dream Control. Those should be the four main courses running consistently.

Then I would also like to see a few more classes taught every once in awhile, perhaps if the demand is high enough...and we can poll people to determine this. These can be done like classes or workshops, and I would love love love to attempt to bring some sleep/dream experts in to give a lecture or something. I think it would be a great idea to attempt to find some experts in the field who would be willing to helps us out in teaching a class, and then we'll promote their book or whatever all over the place. :P It could be a nice mutually beneficial arrangement.

We need to start, I think...at the beginning...since we are scrapping all of shift's stuff. Perhaps a simple...statement of purpose about what we want to accomplish with this? It's easy to get lost sometimes if you don't know where you started from. So a DVA mission statement, or guideline or something would be helpful. Then we need to go through all the different aspects of how we are going to run things, like with student applications, how many students in a class, how often do we want to have classes running (ideally), etc. etc.

Agreed on the classes. :) Some basic onces and then some others that are special and taught by maybe one person based on that person's strengths.

Mission statement, yes--doing a bunch of mod cleanup from Banana and CE going crazy so will get to that tonight. :)

OK guys, to prevent further drama we renamed all the DVA subforums and descriptions. All DVA stickies and announcements in the general on-topic forums are in the Graveyard. We will make some new ones once DVA is fixed up. :)

If you have any suggestions about the DVA subforums, go into the DVA staff forum and post 'em there. For example we don't know if we only need one classroom forum or more than one at this point, so if we end up needing to add things or adapt things to how the program will be run then that's no problem. :)

From now on we can have all the discussion about the DVA program in the new DVA subforums.

A guide on how to make a class is now posted. For those of you who want to teach but are unsure how, be sure to check it out! :)

So what's going on guys? We almost good to go?

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Originally Posted by louie54

So what's going on guys? We almost good to go?

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I copied/pasted all the info on the core classes and applications with the DGT account, and moved all the old stuff into the DVA archives to clean it up a bit. The only thing thats left are getting stickies out, and applications to to potential professors, and finding more of them. Other than that, it looks like all systems are go.

Ok so what do the classes look like/what will they be like? I mean as in, will it be a chatroom, thread, pm, etc.

I don't have sticky privileges anywhere but here, but I think we should be sticking professor apps (I think we have enough students at this point), then maybe everything else, like you said.

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Originally Posted by louie54

Ok so what do the classes look like/what will they be like? I mean as in, will it be a chatroom, thread, pm, etc.

I don't have sticky privileges anywhere but here, but I think we should be sticking professor apps (I think we have enough students at this point), then maybe everything else, like you said.

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I moved the thread from my class into this forum so it could be visible to you. :)

The way we did the classes originally was by having students use a DJ/workbook in the classroom subforum of DVA, posting their dreams and assignments there. Lectures were pre-set times and were held in a special, password protected room in IRC. After each of my lectures, I usually stayed in chat for another hour or so to answer any questions the students had.

This format seemed to work pretty well, IMO. On average, 7/9 students were in chat during the lectures. I was quite surprised. Every single student updated their DJs and did the assignments.

I can sticky the Prof. Applications in the on-topic boards for you. :)

That would be good :)

Damn, I feel like I'm spamming kind of, but I got started :)

I just wonder how much is necessary. Like should I post the application in all the on-topic forums, or just a couple?... I don't know.

EDIT: I also wonder, if we should change the title to just "Professor Applications" instead of how I just did it as "We Need YOU!"

Don't worry about double posting.

I'm thinking the stickies should go in Attaining, Dream Control, ect. Places like BD and the newbies zone would be unnecessary. I'll probably be doing this tomorrow though, since I'll be off to bed pretty quick. :P

And yeah, I'll be sure to have the titles "professor applications."

Ok well I didn't know I could change them myself, so I did that already.

Thank you :)

Oh. That made it easy then. xD

I stickied them all. :)

I appreciate it Naiya :)

Now... what else. Do we need to create schedules for our students?

Edit: Someone should probably let staff know to carefully look over those threads occasionally because I know we've been having some issues with people who disagree with Shifts banishment.

Ok umm... so far we got nothing :P

I would really like to have this place start up sometime by the end of this month, but we need more professors.

Hmm, I'll try harassing PMing some people. :)

PMed the following:

Walms
KingYoshi
Man of Shred
Akono
Aquanina
Ames
Robot Butler
Xaqaria
Man of Steel
The Cusp
O'nus
Invisible Woman
Jeff777
slash112
Hijo de la Luna
ShadowNightWing
SpiritoftheWolf
Cloud


Pretty much all of them expressed interest in teaching at one point or another, and a couple are already on the list of teachers, but it's a good reminder to them lol. :P


P.S. What was the decision about classes like shared dreaming and other BD topics? Because a lot of people are asking for a shared dreaming class. If we did that, I would definitely invite Nomad and Raven to teach it. :)

Hmm what about Adam? I think we was going to be a professor at one point. Thank you very much for that :D

As for BD, I'm alright with it. I mean if people are interested in learning it, then it should be available. Especially since there seems to be quite a few people who want to learn. I wonder though, if we allow it, should we sort of inform them that parts of the subject can't be proven? Or should we just leave it alone? I understand that our community has some sort of pride in the fact that we're into science.

Maybe we should create a poll?

Ah, forgot Adam! Thanks. :)

I agree with the BD stuff...if people demand it, then there's no reason not to have it. But I also think that it should come with a very big disclaimer that it's scientifically unproven and the class is based on personal experience/speculation. A poll is probably a good idea yeah. :)

So far we've got Cloud and Hijo de la Luna on board. :D

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It sounds like a good thing to do might be to have a "professors workshop". I would be willing to bet there are at least some people who might be good at being a professor and enjoy it, but are not confident enough. If we had a class to sort of get potential professors up to speed in the same format that DVA classes are held in, then it would not only get them to be more confident about the material but also how they would be teaching in general.

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As a new professor I agree!! I only say that as this is also the first semester i will be taking classes at DVA....while simultaneously teaching for my first semester at DVA :cheeky: As I was never a student...I have no idea how Im going to teach this online course LOL!! Eh, I have the feeling it will all shake out...im just still waiting to get the full scoop on how it works.

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Originally Posted by waving on oceans

As a new professor I agree!! I only say that as this is also the first semester i will be taking classes at DVA....while simultaneously teaching for my first semester at DVA :cheeky: As I was never a student...I have no idea how Im going to teach this online course LOL!! Eh, I have the feeling it will all shake out...im just still waiting to get the full scoop on how it works.

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Hehe, looks like you found the place. This is the subforum I was talking about. :)

You should also be able to see ones like "DVA archive, current courses, student workbooks." If not let me know. We re-arranged them several weeks ago and the admin panel still shows the original usergroups so it's a bit screwy. :panic:

Hey, on the main DVA page, should we start creating new threads for the sign-in. Like "Meditation Lucid Dreams", "WILD" "DILD", etc. It's sort of easy to get lost in the general sign-in thread as waving on oceans was pointing out.

Sounds like a plan. So are we ready to launch in the next week?

We just need to make sure Hijo creates that syllabus and do you happen to know who's teaching what?

I do think we should be ready.

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Originally Posted by Naiya

Hehe, looks like you found the place. This is the subforum I was talking about. :)

You should also be able to see ones like "DVA archive, current courses, student workbooks." If not let me know. We re-arranged them several weeks ago and the admin panel still shows the original usergroups so it's a bit screwy. :panic:

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Im happy to say i've done some exploring and most of my questions are being answered ><

As far as starting new threads/topics in the subforums....im sure you all have a system. I wanted to ask before I started new threads here and there :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Naiya

Sounds like a plan. So are we ready to launch in the next week?

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I think if we pick a date and let everyone know it would shape together pretty quickly. I usually work well....if I have a deadline :cheeky:

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Originally Posted by waving on oceans

Im happy to say i've done some exploring and most of my questions are being answered ><

As far as starting new threads/topics in the subforums....im sure you all have a system. I wanted to ask before I started new threads here and there :biggrin:

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Hey man, don't be afraid to start a thread here. Do what you need to do (as said in our PM). We would actually appreciate it as long as you stick to DVA business.

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

Good points Akono! Especially about the "uncomplicating" things. :) I agree.

And thanks Naiya, I will definitely check out your class logs. :)

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Hey Aquanina,

Did you find those class logs?? Id like to look at them too.

The class logs should be in this thread.