The bootlegs of Pacz Makaveli days are awesome. With the original music that Pac had you could hear his true vision. He also touched on many other subjects besides his beef with Badboy.
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The bootlegs of Pacz Makaveli days are awesome. With the original music that Pac had you could hear his true vision. He also touched on many other subjects besides his beef with Badboy.
oops,
looks like I missed this topic
I'll read through it properly tonight and post something
Ok, lets disucss, it dsiappoitns me that this ahs become about polotics rather than 2pc shakur and his outlook, however, if I must
First of all, my typing is awful, I believe that as most people are on this forum have a good level of intelligence they can decipher what I'm saying with very ltitle difficulty, if you encounter any words you cannot understand jsut ask.
Now weve covered that small hiccup.
Communist is such a strong word, such an extreme word.
First and full msot I bleieve in eradictating the problem
The problem is expolitation and robbery, the reason is captialism, and alls its forms, namely imperialism
So before I am a communsit, a socialist or an Anarchist
i am anti- Capitalist, my beliefs lie routed in Marxist economics and the Labour Theory of Value, it can be soon quite clerly that capitalism is but a robbery system.
Now the solution.
i beleive in collective ownership, some would say that makes me socialist.
If it is possible to bring abotut he enccesary cahnges via gradul reform, im all for it
but it has been a rare moment in histroy when this can actually succees, so it seems we are elft with no choice but reolvution.
Im fully indian, i am very very comfrotable with the trachings of Ghandi, to this date he remidns one of my idols,
however, at times he was wrong,
it is true that at times the ends jsutify the means
Why do you think there ahs never been an anarchist government in history?
of coruse, they refuse to form politcal parties and they are against violent reolvution
and epaceful reolvution will obviously achieve nothing i nthis day and age
this era of massive armies.
It seems that the only times we have had a communist government we ahve achived this by viplent reolvution
Fidel Castro
Lenin
are the two msot memorable.
Yes these governments went o nto make msitakes, this doesnt cotnradict the fact tht thru violent reovlution the ends were achieved.
Luther King also yes is one omy heroes,
However, I beleive his view and Ghandis view has failures
its too simplistic
I tried paficism, but it cannot only be taken to a certain degree
Malcolm X in his alter more englishghtend days, i tihnk udnerstood this.
Imran
yeh yeh yeh
go make sum other witty comment o nsu mtoher topic
you enver add anything substantial i mafraid to say
nthoing at all
yes your funny congratulations
now say something worth saying?
yes ok tht was terrible terminology
Imran
I did have something to say. Comprehension, it's a skill.
.......and then.....
I can’t believe I just saw all 5 of those statements within the same context. Not only do the last three points contradict the first, but they are all hypocritical of the second.
Your argument, aside from being closed-minded (though, notice, I said 'your argument' and not you as a person, so keep that in mind), isn’t even realistic…
1:
No. Rap is a method of delivery. It is not a topic or set of topics, nor do all rap artists embrace all the same philosophies, have all the same background, or believe in all the same values. You are speaking of rap as if it is a subject matter, and not simply a form of expression, which is much like saying “Dancing is garbage” and is, fundamentally, close-minded.Quote:
meh... but whatever. who cares. rap is 99.9% garbage.
[/b]
2:
Really? Ever hear of Digable Planets? Matisyahu? (who has a more reggae style but is, unquestionably, a rapper) Ever hear any of the countless, undiscovered rappers out there who have anti-violent philosophies? Ever hear of Christian rap? Arabic rap? (which I threw in just to show you that, unless you understand Arabic, you have know idea whether or not the artists even mention “guns” in their text)Quote:
regardless of how positive a rapper is in the majority of his music. you better believe he has a song out there about shooting someone, even if it's for entertainment value or not
[/b]
Not only are there one or two people on this earth that are non-violent and have used rap as their medium of choice but there are enough of them to label entire sub-genres, as in the so-called “Christian Rap” - and even that is only describing those that follow the Christian Faith, or choose to write about Christian values. To say that there aren’t non-violent rappers - or even to say that every rapper, regardless of how positive they are in their majority, has a song about shooting someone - is downright ignorant. Being someone with a completely non-violent rhyme-style, myself, I’d find that statement offensive if I didn’t see it as absolutely ridiculous.
You also don’t seem to acknowledge that many (most, I’d imagine) of the people that are the voices of popular American hip-hop grew up in surroundings where gunplay is, unfortunately, the norm. Many of those people that even have the subject of shooting someone in their raps speak of it on the basis of self-defense. They speak of it in terms of not being a victim and having the strength to shoot, should they find themselves being attacked by pseudo-thugs, crooked cops and wanna-be gangsters, not in the sense of glorifying gunplay. Living in the areas that many of them lived; advertising that you aren’t afraid to “blast back” is an effective, arguably necessary, way to keep yourself from being labeled an easy target. It’s Common Sense, really, that many rappers (even those who may have started out brash and aggressive) change their ways as their lifestyles change, and move on to write much more positive and eloquent lyrics. If this is why rap is such a big joke in music (which is not the reason that I believe) then it’s a prejudicial joke - you know – one of those types of jokes that are only funny to those people who don’t understand or relate to the lifestyle.
3:
Now this….Quote:
i've heard "underground" rap before and with a few exceptions, it's just as mindless as the trash that gets played on TV.[/b]
…let me just put into perspective how ignorant this statement is.
I love a lot of rock music. And even though it’s something that I love and respect enough to search for unfamiliar artists and take the time to learn to play many of their songs on my guitar, I know it’d be absolutely idiotic of me to try to classify the majority of rock as anything, and narrow the remainder down to just a “few exceptions.” Why? Because songs (no matter the genre) differ in style and substance from person to person, or group to group. Statistically, without hearing just shy of 100% of any genre, it is nearly impossible to state what the majority of that genre is. With “underground” hip-hop meaning that which isn’t easily accessible through mainstream outlets, and the easily millions of undiscovered rap artists, worldwide, I’m going to go ahead and (yes) assume that you, someone who apparently doesn’t even like rap, are not in a position to rate 99.9% of the genre.
Call me “assuming.” (or assumptive, whichever)
As with so many others (and I just get really tired of having to say this) your problem doesn’t seem to be with the concept of rap music (or at least, you haven’t been able to logically show how you came to your conclusion of “rap is 99.9% garbage”). You just seem to have a problem with the content of many of the rap artists that you’ve heard, (which I can't really disagree with) but to imply that you’ve heard all, or even most of the rap artists out there, (let alone most of their Songs) in order to justify your opinion, is complete BS.
ME LIKE CHANGES!
EDIT: Damn it Oneironaut you know how to argue! I didn't actually read the post, but.. damn!
Well i'd have to admit that i'm being rather conclusive in my judgement. Of course i've never heard all of the rappers in the world, did you really expect me too in order to come to an opinion? wait let me go learn every language known to man, listen to every rapper out there, read biographies on them so that i can come up with a realistic analysis of the genre. you wait here.
Of course my opinion is based on what i've heard/experienced. they got common sense merit badges where your from? you deserve one.
Blah, blah, blah. You don't have to break down the concept of "gangsta" rap for me. I'm well aware of inner
city violence as well... quit putting them on a pedastal, like they're the aristotals of our time with their oh so metaphorical interpretations of social climate and financial botheration. Surely they must be the obelisk that holds the fabrics of society together. god bless those little troopers.
Well obviously i don't like rap. that's why i've taken the time to write about the rubbish of it's subject matter (wait there are christian rappers too.. but that doesnt really count as music anyways).
wow did you break out the thesaurus for that one. or is that simply the edjucating tip for the day?Quote:
or assumptive [/b]
i was intimidated at first when i saw the amount of text you wrote in response to my
obviously-not-so-obvious attempt to simply dismiss the genre as crap. Then i realised it was mostly filler.
you could've just done this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music
and told me my view was narrow minded. but thanks for taking the time to type it all out. To save you the trouble of carpal tunnel syndrome, i'm giving up on this topic simply because i don't feel like micro-managing another topic i simply don't care about. but thanks for that informative essay of how different people are not the same person...really helped clear up that whole "bruce lee is god" conundrum that perplexed me for all of these years.
back on topic...tupac is dead.
P.S: I hope you've also realised that the majority of my posts are steeped in sarcasm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasim
to save me and you from writting/reading a wall of text.
Haha. Now how did I know I wasn't going to get a level-headed reply?
"Apology" accepted. :chuckle:
To come to the opinion that you did, in your initial post, and be credited for actually being able to back it up?
....Yup. :wink:
So, lets say I've met .25% of the muslims on this planet, all of them terrorists, and go around stating the conclusion that "99.9% of Muslims are terrorists." I'd say the person that explains to me why I should state my conclusion differently deserves a common sense badge because, with a statement like that, I'd know it wouldn't be going to me.
Tell ya what; If you can point out to me, anywhere in my post, where I have put those who have experienced inner-city violence on pedastals, or implied, basically, anything in your quote, I won't call you an idiot for accusing me of it. Deal?
I was simply explaining why many of them would have the concept of "shooting someone" in their raps, which has nothing to do with their place or status in the world. That little rant of yours was a complete straw-man.
....I rest my (entire) case.
Nope. That was an experiment.
It's funny how people who play grammar/spelling police on others always take offense when others do it to them. Isn't it?
My pleasure. Trust me. :content:
Wait! Let me go read every post you've written on this forum, find your most prevalent tone of text, and relate it to your opinion on this particular subject to try to discover your affinity for sarcasm while, at the same time, dumbing myself down to fit your implication that I don't know what sarcasm is. You wait here! :happy:
Gooooood idea. :goodjob2:
But yeah, back on topic:
I agree. Tupac's dead. :)
maybe i am clueless about the old hip hop but i like talib kweli.
:bravo: Oneironaut wins.
For anyone who doesn't feel like reading the entire thread, here's my interpretative summary of the debate between geeves and oneironaut:
Geeves: I heard some rap on MTV, and it sucks. Therefore, all rap sucks.
Oneironaut: It is ignorant to pretend that you have listened and heard more than a small fraction of the variety of lyrics and music that hip-hop and rap has to offer. Many underground rappers fit that stereotype to a much less degree.
Geeves: Well, despite what you say, rap still sucks. And yes, I heard a couple of undergorund rappers. They weren't that great either, which supports my conclusion that the entirety of the rap and hip-hop genre, except for a measly .1 percent is garbage.
Oneironaut: There are many other types of rap that completely put forth a non-violent message, and again, it is ignorant to pretend that all songs are about "shooting someone" by hearing only a small percentage of rap. To claim that 99.9 percent of rap is garbage without actually listening to 99.9% percent of rap (or even a small fraction of that, for that matter), is completely ridiculous and makes you lose credibility.
Geeves: You suck! Nyeah!
Oneironaut: OK.
Hell yeah. Talib is one of my favorite artists. I have only heard peices of his new album (on top of most of his older stuff, of course), but it seems he's taken a really mainstream twist in that one, which I don't like. Hopefully it's just a quick way to make a buck, and he goes back to his original style. He'd really let me down, if he doesn't.
Where's my badge?! :content:
[Edit: LMFAO @ Ataraxis!]
What is Hip-Hop?
What is Underground Hip-Hop?
It all started out in the Bronx - with kids wanting to make music for little or no outlay - nicking their parents record collection, chopping the beats up on turntables, and re-arranging them into a different sounding rhythm
Now, it's all very well for me (a guy in his room with 2000 odd records) to make a track using 2, 5, 10, or even 50 different records
"Ooh, I like the snare on that, lets nab it - slow it down a tad, and oooh crikey - a fast backspin on the snare makes a cool hi-hat sounding sound" - that type of thing
great, you might think
but fast forward to a professional music situation
you are proposing to sample 10 different records in order to make 1 track? in order to just break even with the sampling royalties, you have to sell thousands
so, we have a problem
The very essence of hip-hop in the commercial world is defeated by royalty fees
Solution No. 1
Sell millions of copies in order for it to be workable
Timberland and Neptunes (et al) spring to mind
These big commercial record labels nit-pick songs according to market trends
Solution No. 2
1 song sample hip-hop tracks
where, in essence, you're just re-making the song you're sampling
Fugees - Killing me softly
Coolio - Gangsta's paradise
and many others spring to mind
Solution No. 3
Don't go commercial at all
Keep on making your beats in your bedroom
sell them out of your car boot at hip-hop concerts
Set up an Ebay shop and sell over the net
anything
just avoid the royalty fees
Verdict
The best, and truest hip-hop is not on the shelves of HMV (or whatever high street record stores you have in your country)
The hip-hop that is on those shelves has been through a meat grinder, in terms of hip-hop music styling
This is one of the differences between commerical & underground hip-hop
What is Rap?
As greg said, rap is a method of vocal delivery
call it the "opposite" of singing
Generally,
Singing accompanies a leading melody
the melody leads, and the vocals follow
rapping, however, produces a counter-beat to contrast with the instrumental elements of the melody
it's the interaction between the beat and the vocals that produces the syncopated rhythms of hip-hop
just a method of vocal delivery
is the Pet Shop Boys' song "West-end Girls" rap?
I'm jumping the gun a bit here,
I'm missing out the different roles an MC (rapper) can play, and why
but I'll come back to that later
Different Subject Material
Like any type of music,
hip-hop tracks can span lots of different subject material
Sometimes, when a track was released, that differed from what had gone before
it spawned a sort of "sub-genre"
it's the same all across the music world
and hip-hop is no different
In 1982, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five released a track called "The Message"
this spawned a sub-type of hip-hop
called, at the time, Message Rap
This different style focused on story-telling
a sort of stark warning of social problems present
Typically, it told a fictional story
and starred caricatures of the artists performing the song
in exaggerated circumstances
In certain respects, it was akin to a short film
anyway,
Gangsta rap is a derivative of this style......
Now......
remember what I said before about the solutions to the sampling rights problem?
solution No.1
What type of subject material is likely to sell the most?
bear in mind that 80% of all hip-hop merchandise sales are to middle class white kids
(yep, ironic ain't it)
This effectively pigeon-holed hip-hop (on the commerical level, at any rate)
into this narrow sub-type of hip-hop
We fell astray from Tupac.
I'm not a big rap fan in general, but I have bought some rap CD's over the years. As for Tupac, I'm not that into his music, but I like some of his movies. I know Tupac mainly from VH1 documentaries. Which leads to my question... Why do you think he was murdered? He got shot at least one time before the shooting that killed him, and after it happened, his ex-friend Biggie Smalls (Notorious B.I.G.) came out with a song titled "Who Shot You?" or something like that. Tupac believed that Biggie had him shot and bragged about it in his song. Somewhere in there, Tupac was publicly making playful remarks about having slept with Biggie's wife, Faith Evans. Biggie flat out refused to play back in song. Soon after Tupac was murdered, Biggie was murdered. That makes it sound like Biggie must have had something to do with Tupac's murder. On the other hand, there is video footage of Tupac's involvement in a gang beating of a gang member at a casino in Las Vegas the night he was shot. There's a lot more to the scenario, but that's the stuff that really caught my attention.
I have never talked to Tupac fans about what they make of all of that. What do you think happened?
anyone here like atmosphere? or aesop rock?
It's hard to say. Personally, I think that the shooting had something to do with what went on between him and Biggie, but Tupac really put himself out there, so I'm sure he had more than his fair share of enemies -whether it was someone(s) he's personally offended, or people just jealous of his fame. Who knows? But I was never really that much of a fan, so I'm probably not the best person to answer. :P
There are no winners in a bitching contest, only bitches. (This is not to say Onerionaut is a bitch. In fact, if he's a bitch, then I'm the weakling Fairy Godmother or something).Quote:
Oneironaut wins[/b]
Why does the majority of rap singers have the following----- Featuring;
Jay Z featuring co punk and biggie smoovy and tupak shilack and ice tea and ice cube and Puff daddy???
You watch their videos and it is a bunch of rappers hanging out in a big crown with naked booty.
Can't they make a record on their own? In all seriousness.
Well, that's simple; because so many people love collaborations. This isn't just rap. It's in just about every medium I can think of. Movies have "all star casts." Comic books have "crossovers." Music has "collaborations." It's a way of catering to more than just one audience, and branching away from a single voice or flow, by adding the stylings of another artist. Everybody does it. It just seems that rappers do it much more often. The dynamics usually don't come from the music, seeing as how most rap seems to take the emphasis off of musical changes, aside from a few pivotal points (hook, bridge, verse). The music, in rap, is secondary (whereas in many other forms of music, the instrumentation(word?) is at often at the fore-front) so, by adding other rappers, it just gives a linear act a little more flavor....provided those rappers are good of course.
"The music, in rap, is secondary (whereas in many other forms of music, the instrumentation(word?) "
Thank you. :thumbup:
Well I hope that wasn't misinterpretted. By "music" I meant, the instrumentals, and they are still very important, but where, in a lot of other music, the instrumental changes are often much more dynamic than the vocals, in rap (for the most part) the lyrics and technique are supposed to be the main attraction.
Just thought I'd clarify. :wink: