Thread: Hip-Hop vs. America

I saw that and wanted to watch it but my sister made me watch New York Minute.

Anyway my opinion on music is that it is a direct reflection of the culture. If people think there's too much violence in hip-hop, for instance, maybe the cops could patrol the ghetto once in a while and help a brotha out. Like Tupac said, "I didn;t create thug life, I just diagnosed it." If they think it's all material and they don't care about any issues, it's cause they listen to music about what they aspire to have themselves, the dream is to rise out of the ghetto and a signifier of that, unfortunately, is high priced stunners and 8 girls in tow.

I just think like, you know how some retards blame heavy metal for kids' shooting up their schools? It's retarded, the fact that they were listening to (certain) heavy metal is just a warning sign that the culture they live in is screaming for help. And why not? The average American kid's life is psychologically unhealthy. Their music didn't catalyze, it acts as a temporary outlet, actually, so violent music is actually healthy for people so they don't have as much tension inside.

So yeah, that's just my opinion.

Not all hip hop has a bad message, but a great deal of it does. That which does is primarily a result of a state of society. The violence and indifference to human life and rights and its terrible influence on social attitudes resulted in a market for music with pro-gangster mentalities. From there, a lot of people who don't have gangster mentalities started getting entertained by the music because they think it sounds good and because they are intrigued with the gangster image, which is why people love movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas. I think that explains why the music exists and why it is popular.

Then there is the question of how that music is affecting society. It seems to me that its effect on society is tiny compared to society's effect on it. There is some feedback from the music's influence back on the social climate that created it, but I think a person's local social and family climates are much more powerful than some image that comes with music.

I remember in the 80's, when I was in junior high and high school, the big fuss was over heavy metal. It was seen as such a big deal. Just like with gangster rap, there were some knuckleheads who took heavy metal way too seriously and sacrificed their dogs and sometimes their mothers to Satan. But the vast, vast majority of people who loved heavy metal were just entertained by it and did not take its messages seriously. I used to blast Slayer daily on my car stereo, but I never once even contemplated becoming a devil worshipper or tearing off people's limbs. I still sang along with the songs that talked about that stuff like it was the thing to do. As far as I could tell, I was representative of most heavy metal fans in that way. The people who did dig up bodies and kill their mothers had very serious family and mental issues in the first place. The music did not suddenly make them that way. I think the same is probably true of gangster rap. A song cannot turn a person into a sociopath. It takes a bad upbringing or a brain chemical imbalance for that to happen.

99% of the hiphop you see on TV, isn't talking about anything real, though.
It's all material driven. theres no question the kids watching it, look up to these dudes, and try to imitate and mimic what they see. I think the music does lead to some messed up shit. kids want diamonds to look the part, start selling crack, or playing stick-up kid to get said diamonds. obviously not all kids, but you get the point. on the same token, its a good outlet for other kids, as was said.

HipHop music had a profound effect on my life. I've been making music for 6 years, because of it. The people I hang out with, best friends, "associates" etc.. Are all people I met through making music, with a few exceptions of life long friends. Im no longer a fan of mainstream rap. well some of it. but I listen to a lot of underground hiphop. everyone including me, hears the material mainstream stuff first though. for me, it lead to a deep appreciation and love for music, thats had plenty of positive effects in my life, as it has for a lot of others.

I completely support peoples right to say whatever they want in their music, obviously.
I just wish theyd say something of meaning and value. instead of the same old tired shit theyve been saying since gangster rap gave way to bubblegum rap. I think if anything, rap music today reflects just how shallow society can be.

anyway, not really going anywhere with this. just dropping 2 cents into the bucket.

Damn. It was really good. I'd suggest anyone who's interested in this kinda thing to find out when it comes on again and try to catch it.

Omnius Deus:

Though I see that side of it, I disagree, to some extent. The problem comes when someone either tries to blame the music by 100% or defend the music, by 100%. Sure, it's not the music's fault that society is the way it is, but the music and the way it's portrayed and glamorized plays a large role. It seems to me that a lot of artists don't really realize how powerful music really is. Many of them (especially in the gangster rap genre) do what they do to make money. That's it. Bottom line. If people like what they hear and the artist sells records, cool. That's all that matters. They don't realize there is more to it than that.

For some people (especially young people) music is religion. It is something that is in their ears day in and day out, for hours and hours on end. Tupac didn't create thug life, but he put it on a platform that is one of the most powerful platforms to ever exist - and I'm not saying he's wrong for that, at all. I'm saying that those that do it need to at least take responsibility for the consequences of such a thing. Tupac is a bit of an exception, because he sits in a gray area, in relation to the Pop-Hop artists of today. He didn't exactly glorify Thug Life. He spoke about it on a realistic level, and he showed a realistic struggle to cope with the situations that he lived in, while striving for more.

We are in a completely different era of hip hop than what Tupac wrote (as far as mainstream goes). Kids still listen to this stuff just as often, but the message has degenerated so far that they aren't even getting the sense of balance that Tupac spoke about. They are getting the glorification of some of the most vile aspects of the hip-hop culture. It is like Brain Washing. If you sit someone down in a chair, strap them in, and play propaganda through their eyes and ears, from an early age, eventually that person will begin to fall in line with that line of thinking. Everything else will seem alien. This is what happens when people choose their favorite artists out of the trash they have easy access to.

So, no, the music is not at fault, alone, but it has a hand in it. The artists, producers, radiostations and other media outlets have to take part in the blame. Artists like to blame the parents, but I feel that's a bit of a cop-out. Parents can only dictate to their kids so much. When the kid is out in society, at school, at friends' houses, whatever, anything goes. Some of the wildest nut-case-kids have come from the homes of very fit parents, because of outside influence.

Universal Mind:

Gangster rap is not like Heavy Metal, though, in that (yes, because of society) the majority of the fan base lives in a world where the source material is much more attractive, on a perceived level of necessity, than heavy metal. Many of the kids who are "doing what the music tells them to do" live in really shitty conditions. Reaching the goals that are proposed in ganster rap (stacking money at all costs, cars, screwing as many women as humanly possible, slinging drugs to make a quick buck) are hardly given any other option than to emulate that lifestyle. The music itself is a very powerful recruiting tool, for that reason - more-so, I'd say, than heavy metal. When you have nothing, you feel you have to get something, and when you see and hear all these "gangsters" flashing their money cars and chicks around, and making it look so easy, how hard do you think that would be to stay away from? Sure, it's not a change that's going to happen overnight (No, I don't think a single song can turn a person into a sociopath) but continued exposure to an entire genre of amoral lyrics - set to attractive music that allows your body to want to move while the lyrics just sort of infiltrate your mind, whether consciously or subconsciously - over the years, definitely can.

Awoke:

I completely agree with you. The affect that music has on people works both ways. I was exposed to gangster rap WAY before I was exposed to positive hip-hop. Because of my background (which is where I agree with UM and Omnius) it lead to a bit of distaste for the state of what I thought "Hip-Hop was." The songs alone, were not enough to turn me into a sociopath. But that is, in part, because I didn't start really listening to hip-hop until I was well into my teens, and I already knew the kind of person that I was.
But, it wasn't until a few years later that I discovered more underground hip hop, from conscious, positive artists. Not only did it change my perspective on Hip-Hop, but it re-enforced my outlook on life, and made my passion for positivity and creativity so much stronger. It amplified my emotions and made the importance of a positive outlook so much stronger for me.

There are just too many consequences for degenerative, negative media being in the mainstream. And sure, artists have the right to do what they want with their music. It just really bothers me - as a parent, especially - to see the ignorance they display to what that kind of pollutive "entertainment" helps to do to society. Sure, it may be "made" for adults, but it's shown 24hrs a day on basic cable channels and major public radio-stations. No parent can shield their children from that. It's not possible. It just bothers me that many "artists" just don't care.

You know what's worse? There are some people who believe eating meat is the cause of those school shootings.

Rap sucks

Hip hop sucks

All music that I don't listen to sucks

Simple as that

If somebody likes something that you do not see the reason of, ignore it (unless it's something morally wrong in every way and could hurt other people).

Ignorance is bliss. Eh, Cymek?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Ignorance is bliss. Eh, Cymek?

Damn straight.

Originally Posted by CymekSniper

You know what's worse? There are some people who believe eating meat is the cause of those school shootings.

Rap sucks

Hip hop sucks

All music that I don't listen to sucks

Simple as that

If somebody likes something that you do not see the reason of, ignore it (unless it's something morally wrong in every way and could hurt other people).

Wow, aren't you the posterboy for closed-minded, ignorant, backward, and self-glorifying pricks?

Oneironaut: My cousin mentioned that program but I thought nothing of it until now...do you know where I might be able to watch it online?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

Wow, aren't you the posterboy for closed-minded, ignorant, backward, and self-glorifying pricks?

Oneironaut: My cousin mentioned that program but I thought nothing of it until now...do you know where I might be able to watch it online?

Close-minded? Ignorant? Backwards? Self glorifying prick?
Actually I'm just tolerant of this type of thing. I have a different opinion of what I believe is good and what isn't and I don't go around telling people to think a certain way or do certain things because bla bla bla, this causes unnecessary conflict. There are more powerful forces that can counter whatever negative effect rap has on our youth after all.

Originally Posted by CymekSniper

I have a different opinion of what I believe is good and what isn't and I don't go around telling people to think a certain way or do certain things because bla bla bla, this causes unnecessary conflict.

Buuuuuut...making a blanket (yes, close-minded) statement such as "hip-hop sucks", when it's a culture or genre that you've never taken the time to actually understand - yet other people, that you may be insulting, have grown up on it and are passionate about it's more positive aspects - doesn't create unnecessary conflict?

If you were so adamant about not wanting to "create unnecessary conflict," you wouldn't have chimed in on a genre - that you obviously haven't taken the time to familiarize yourself with - with such a derogatory comment.

Marinate on that for a moment.

[Edit: In the same breath, Jeff, no need to come at him that way. You should expand on your point of view, before hauling off and just slinging-names, ya know? But, aside from that, no I don't know where you could find it online, yet. They had a website posted at the bottom of the show, during the credits. I can't remember what it is, right off-hand, but I'll look around for it and post it if I can find it.]

Originally Posted by CymekSniper

There are more powerful forces that can counter whatever negative effect rap has on our youth after all.

Yea, it's called prison, after it's too late.

I'm j/king around but it's kind of right...

I love rap/hip-hop and have been listening to it all my life. I have all good views about it. I even accept the worst of the worst (meaning offensive/bad) of gangster rap. Actually, this is my favorite kind of rap. Not really just because of the lyrics, but because it seems this type of rap always has the catchiest and best beats. And with a 2,000 watt system, bass owns in gangster rap, sorry.

Forgot to mention, I wouldn't allow my kids to listen to the heavily explicit rap until they are 15 or so... But I don't have kids yet.

For anyone with subwoofers, put daz dillinger- "My system" on a CD... and 3 6 mafia- late night tip. Those songs bump like a mofo. They aren't the coolest songs, but they really are some of the coolest bass lines.

Edit: That show was really great. Did anyone else find it a bit annoying at times though???

Thanks Oneiro Hip-Hop/Rap "can be" poetry with music. I say can be because not all hip-hop/rap music is worth listening to imo

Originally Posted by Michael

Yea, it's called prison, after it's too late.

I'm j/king around but it's kind of right...

I love rap/hip-hop and have been listening to it all my life. I have all good views about it. I even accept the worst of the worst (meaning offensive/bad) of gangster rap. Actually, this is my favorite kind of rap. Not really just because of the lyrics, but because it seems this type of rap always has the catchiest and best beats. And with a 2,000 watt system, bass owns in gangster rap, sorry.

Forgot to mention, I wouldn't allow my kids to listen to the heavily explicit rap until they are 15 or so... But I don't have kids yet.

For anyone with subwoofers, put daz dillinger- "My system" on a CD... and 3 6 mafia- late night tip. Those songs bump like a mofo. They aren't the coolest songs, but they really are some of the coolest bass lines.

Edit: That show was really great. Did anyone else find it a bit annoying at times though???

If you have a nice stereo system in your car, put on Thug Luv by Bone thugz and Tupac, it's...wow :O

I F'ckin love that song. ^

Yeah, double post.

Originally Posted by Michael

Edit: That show was really great. Did anyone else find it a bit annoying at times though???

Annoying how? Yeah, I found some of the rapper's stances a bit frustrating, because they didn't seem to understand anything past "Well, we are making major money off of it, so we are going to do what we do," but that's about it. I was kind of impressed with Master P. though. He seems to have really turned his life around. Nelly had a lot to say but I think, fundamentally, he's definitely on a different page than what I believe. It was good to hear all those sides of the debate, though, so I can't say that the show was annoying.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

If you have a nice stereo system in your car, put on Thug Luv by Bone thugz and Tupac, it's...wow :O

I have it on a cd.... somewhere. I used to listen to bone thugs like a friggin religion. Isn't that the song with gun shots in the background? I can't remember much more than that

Thanks tho! I'll be sure to Ipod it and see how it hits tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Michael

Isn't that the song with gun shots in the background? I can't remember much more than that

Yup. That's it.

Dooom Dooom Doooom Doo-Doooooooom. *Chick-chick* BOOM BOOM. Heh.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Ignorance is bliss. Eh, Cymek?

No shit. Wow.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Buuuuuut...making a blanket (yes, close-minded) statement such as "hip-hop sucks", when it's a culture or genre that you've never taken the time to actually understand - yet other people, that you may be insulting, have grown up on it and are passionate about it's more positive aspects - doesn't create unnecessary conflict?

If you were so adamant about not wanting to "create unnecessary conflict," you wouldn't have chimed in on a genre - that you obviously haven't taken the time to familiarize yourself with - with such a derogatory comment.

Marinate on that for a moment.

[Edit: In the same breath, Jeff, no need to come at him that way. You should expand on your point of view, before hauling off and just slinging-names, ya know? But, aside from that, no I don't know where you could find it online, yet. They had a website posted at the bottom of the show, during the credits. I can't remember what it is, right off-hand, but I'll look around for it and post it if I can find it.]

I guess I should have worded that statement differently. I see what you mean though. I can be a bit blunt sometimes.

And I can be the hammer passing judgement on people sometimes. I meant what I said, I just shouldn't have said it.

Originally Posted by Michael

I have it on a cd.... somewhere. I used to listen to bone thugs like a friggin religion. Isn't that the song with gun shots in the background? I can't remember much more than that

Thanks tho! I'll be sure to Ipod it and see how it hits tomorrow.

That's the one it's on my ipod right now hahaha

yeah, Thug Love was the jam back in the day. I dubbed that whole Art Of War double disc to a casette. Constantly rewinding that song.