Thread: DS vs. PSP

Hmm... I'm not sure, but knowing me, i'll probably buy one of each. Cause I'm like that a lot.

ill probably get neither (cuz im pretty much broke) but if i had the money id go with the PSP, just cuz ive been a fan of sony playstation since its been out. besides im sick of mario, theres too many games about him.
hmm, i wonder how long the battery will last...i read somewhere only a few hours.

i dont really think they will do all that well, since the games will be fucking expensive .... they'd better crank out some REALLY good zelda clones on there will it be worth having one.

Originally posted by CT
i dont really think they will do all that well, since the games will be fucking expensive .... they'd better crank out some REALLY good zelda clones on there will it be worth having one.

You'll want the DS then.

The PSP is going to have battery problems for sure, with the disc drive and everything. But the graphics on the PSP totally owns the DS.

though decision. the PSP is much cooler, but on the other hand DS has that funny thouch-screen. it all depends on the games...

And i'm not sure how well the whole 3D thing on handhelds is going to be either... god, I wish they would just continue to make some good RPG games for the normal gameboy like Links Awakening, and others... I would so buy those, the whole atmosphere of those games, dark green on yellow.... who needs fancy colours and 3d shit?

I'm more interested in future portable gaming devices based on the Imageon chip.

I have the DS abd i love it! IST SO COOL. I DONT THINK ID GET THE PSP.

DS...like having an N64 in your hands. If that is not amazing to you, I don't know what would be. And don't expect it to take too long to have, say the Xbox's graphics on a hand-held...

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
DS...like having an N64 in your hands. If that is not amazing to you, I don't know what would be. And don't expect it to take too long to have, say the Xbox's graphics on a hand-held...

I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon.

I will get the psp, i left nintendo 5 years ago and went to sony and im very confortable with it. Nintendo games are nice but playstation games have more variety.

Well here's my story...

The first time I saw the Game Boy Advance out I thought it was a joke (like someone was photo-manipulating a photograph or something)... I was at the mall two days ago when I heard about it. This kid's brother wanted to go into this store (video game store) so we went there. There was the thing and I'm like "wtf?!" I played it a little (there was a little stand demo version of metroid or something I think (the one with samus)). It was AWESOME.... The touch screen gives you so much more capatibility. The only advantage of the PSP seems to be the larger screen and better graphics but other than that, the DS seems wayyyyyyy better... That, and the DS is a lot cheaper (but still expensive).

I am going to get neither because of the price and stuff but...

Why would someone get a PSP for about $200 when they can get the Playstation 2 for $150. Confuses me...

Originally posted by Squall+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squall)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Joseph_Stalin

DS...like having an N64 in your hands. If that is not amazing to you, I don't know what would be. And don't expect it to take too long to have, say the Xbox's graphics on a hand-held...

I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon.[/b]

You underestimate the power of the information age, and technological evolution as a whole. The advancement leaps happen right under your nose. Besides, I am not talking about two years from now. I meant along the lines of 2008, perhaps (about 3-4 years). By then, we'll have definately have Xbox 2s and such, and we'll make fun of the graphics of long past, but by that time, the manufacturing process goes up, and lowers in price, and we viola. Handheld.

Hope so.

But I'd still go for virtual reality. Maybe a dream machine with games you can buy. That'd be so awesome. And you can have LAN sleepovers except it'd be a lot of sleeping... Okay I'd better not get carried away lol.

I can't see games utilizing the DS's touch screen, and in my oppinion.. its ugly. I see it as being a less expensive alternative to the PSP, aimed at younger crowds who would abuse a handheld more.

The PSP on the other hand.. it came as a huge disappointment to hear that it would use wifi instead of bluetooth (battery consumption issues).. but the battery isn't so much of an issue with the PSP for a number of reasons. It will be easilly removable.. and removing it will not affect your progress on a game, it will stay right where it was when you powered it off. Many games will be designed to lower read-on-the-fly usage which would drain the battery quickly. Yes, the big ass widescreen TFT is gonna eat some juice... but as said before, its easy to carry spare rechargables should you need them (hell i bought the sony-ericsson k700i cellphone, fully knowing the battery sucks, and its the best phone i've ever seen).

Sony has always been known for pulling off high-quality stuff (look at the ps2, it uses a 128-bit processor from the ground up, while the xbox uses a 32-bit processor designed much later, and the ps2 holds its own). The PSP will not be a disappointment. Its graphics are equal to the PS2's and the games promise not to just be ports, but whole new sequels. Sony has not only the hardware, but like 50 developers backin the PSP. So without a doubt, i'll pick the PSP for the older crowd. The DS i think will be tailored more like the gamecube, to be less expensive and more durable.

I'll include a bit on the PS3, not that its related, but its cool anyways. Microsoft nor Nintendo will be able to compete with it.. Now before anyone jumps in.. i can back this up. The PS3 will be using cell processor technology. Most of you probably have not heard of this, however it is a VERY powerful technology that is sorta implemented in the Apple PowerPC processor. Sony, Toshiba, and IBM are designing it to be based on the PowerPC but MUCH more powerful. Basically it is made up of multiple processor cores hyperlinked together to allow each to work on seperate jobs, therefore increasing efficiency and speed. This sounds very futuristic.. but expect to see some computers rolling out with this in 2005. The PS3 is slated for early 2006.

More on the specs now, and offa the technology. First estimates on the Cell's power were 1 teraflop, but Sony has updated the number to 2 teraflops. Now.. this is much more powerful then any PC made today with the best specs. 1 teraflop is over 100 times the processing power of a Pentium 4 2.4ghz and quite a bit more powerful then Microsoft’s 3 -3.5GHz G5 CPUs. The PS3 will be among the top 300 processors on earth.

"That's where the apparently outrageous performance claims come from; a four-way assembly running at a planned 4 GHz offers 32 x 4 = 128 Gigaflops in potential floating-point execution. A 64-way supergrid made by stacking eight eight-way assemblies would have a total of 512 attached processors and could, therefore, break 2 teraflops if data transportation kept up with the processors."

Basically 8 processing units running at 4ghz each make up a core and they can fit up to 64 of these CPU cores in an array. Its doubtful they will actually put 64 of these to equal 2 teraflops.. but its possible to see 16, even 32 (32, being a teraflop).

PS3 will use Bluray, the new Sony DVD technology which allows developers to store much more on a DVD. Thats about all i know on it. I heard the first PS3's for devs, the chips ran so unstably that they overheated and melted through the board. So the devs had to make a special freezer for them. Its looking better now though (no.. the ps3 won't come in a mini-fridge, sorry). Oh yeah, the game developers are having a problem making the games because no current PC can handle the graphics, so they must be emulated.

Its all good, Sony is really starting to become a hardware powerhouse, and I honestly don't think nintendo and microsoft will be able to keep up.

32 of those will probably generate quite a lot of heat. And remember this is the future you're talking about, I doubt AMD, ATI, nVidia and Intel will just sit still and wait. (Dual-core due for fall next year as an example)

And where did you hear/read that Sony invented blue-laser DVDs? The fact that a blue laser enables better storage has been known as long as we've had CDs. It's just the cost and manufacturing that's the reason we don't have them until now.

Originally posted by TheUnknown
I can't see games utilizing the DS's touch screen, and in my oppinion.. its ugly. I see it as being a less expensive alternative to the PSP, aimed at younger crowds who would abuse a handheld more.

The PSP on the other hand.. it came as a huge disappointment to hear that it would use wifi instead of bluetooth (battery consumption issues).. but the battery isn't so much of an issue with the PSP for a number of reasons. It will be easilly removable.. and removing it will not affect your progress on a game, it will stay right where it was when you powered it off. Many games will be designed to lower read-on-the-fly usage which would drain the battery quickly. Yes, the big ass widescreen TFT is gonna eat some juice... but as said before, its easy to carry spare rechargables should you need them (hell i bought the sony-ericsson k700i cellphone, fully knowing the battery sucks, and its the best phone i've ever seen).

Sony has always been known for pulling off high-quality stuff (look at the ps2, it uses a 128-bit processor from the ground up, while the xbox uses a 32-bit processor designed much later, and the ps2 holds its own). The PSP will not be a disappointment. Its graphics are equal to the PS2's and the games promise not to just be ports, but whole new sequels. Sony has not only the hardware, but like 50 developers backin the PSP. So without a doubt, i'll pick the PSP for the older crowd. The DS i think will be tailored more like the gamecube, to be less expensive and more durable.

I'll include a bit on the PS3, not that its related, but its cool anyways. Microsoft nor Nintendo will be able to compete with it.. Now before anyone jumps in.. i can back this up. The PS3 will be using cell processor technology. Most of you probably have not heard of this, however it is a VERY powerful technology that is sorta implemented in the Apple PowerPC processor. Sony, Toshiba, and IBM are designing it to be based on the PowerPC but MUCH more powerful. Basically it is made up of multiple processor cores hyperlinked together to allow each to work on seperate jobs, therefore increasing efficiency and speed. This sounds very futuristic.. but expect to see some computers rolling out with this in 2005. The PS3 is slated for early 2006.

More on the specs now, and offa the technology. First estimates on the Cell's power were 1 teraflop, but Sony has updated the number to 2 teraflops. Now.. this is much more powerful then any PC made today with the best specs. 1 teraflop is over 100 times the processing power of a Pentium 4 2.4ghz and quite a bit more powerful then Microsoft’s 3 -3.5GHz G5 CPUs. The PS3 will be among the top 300 processors on earth.

\"That's where the apparently outrageous performance claims come from; a four-way assembly running at a planned 4 GHz offers 32 x 4 = 128 Gigaflops in potential floating-point execution. A 64-way supergrid made by stacking eight eight-way assemblies would have a total of 512 attached processors and could, therefore, break 2 teraflops if data transportation kept up with the processors.\"

Basically 8 processing units running at 4ghz each make up a core and they can fit up to 64 of these CPU cores in an array. Its doubtful they will actually put 64 of these to equal 2 teraflops.. but its possible to see 16, even 32 (32, being a teraflop).

PS3 will use Bluray, the new Sony DVD technology which allows developers to store much more on a DVD. Thats about all i know on it. I heard the first PS3's for devs, the chips ran so unstably that they overheated and melted through the board. So the devs had to make a special freezer for them. Its looking better now though (no.. the ps3 won't come in a mini-fridge, sorry). Oh yeah, the game developers are having a problem making the games because no current PC can handle the graphics, so they must be emulated.

Its all good, Sony is really starting to become a hardware powerhouse, and I honestly don't think nintendo and microsoft will be able to keep up.

I think you fail you to see beyond what the specs may tell you. Also, your concept of 32 bit and 128 bit is a little off. In comparison, the PS2 uses many more polygons than necessary on various in game objects, because of it's design and processor speed, etc. The Xbox excels here, because it simplifies the process greatly--not so much by a fast processor, but by raw memory. This is also why it in fact so large.

Also, as said, the machine (PS3) sounds like it will create A LOT of fucking heat. Expect more noise from this than from a computer clocking 3.5 gigs and carry an 6800...

The cell technology: Sounds great and all, but your games are going to be limited to a few engines, I am sad to say. All of you FPS's will look surprisingly similiar, and your RPG's, etc.

Processor design, 'split-job' system: Once again, you'll be able to cook eggs on your machine, and no doubt it'll be very large. Sounds efficient, but coding on this bitch will be another pain.

Your speed is nothing but theoretical. Unless you made the perfect game, you have lost effeciency in design. I'm not saying your speeds are not possible, I am just saying that they can never be reached through normal developing means.

Take a look at the Xenon stat's and i'll play devil's advocate, too. It has flaws. All do. But while your PS3 is made for idealistic power, speed, and function, the Xenon aims to tap every source to be as efficient as possible. Efficiency is key. It has always been. Take a good video card, but without some good ram and a decent processor, nothing works. Have a decent processor and good ram, but a crappy video card? Same problem. Things need to work and interconnect properly, and must work efficienctly (It's 1 mb cache for it's three processors is an example of efficiency. You sacrifice some raw speed for some backed speed, and everything's smooth [xenon]).

And, just for a good laugh: "Sony has always been known for pulling off high-quality stuff". Let's just say I couldn't finish reading for another few minutes (my old DVD players and tvs are FINE examples, and not to mention my shitty PS2 disc drive--I've gone through two, count 'em, two Playstation 2s, in just 2 years (back in 2000 and 2001).

I've owned MD players and Sony-Ericsson cellphones through the years now.. you can't convince me sony makes shit.

Another thing, as I mentioned, the PS3 is going to shoot for efficiancy. Yes, its going to make some heat, but the chips will be optimized at that point, so its not going to be anything like the prototypes. Coding on it I don't think is going to be as hard as you think. Supposidley the dev kit is supposed to be excellent (off-topic again, i hear Sony is going to work on a whole new graphics system.. to oust DirectX's lead, which i hope to god they do because DirectX is shit and devs are too lazy to work with OpenGL.) IBM also said they would adapt a *NIX based operating system to work on the cell (most likely linux-based, which is cool, won't have to deal with winblows shit like microsoft has.)

About bluray, Sony has not "invented" it. However, they hold many patents to the technology (technology they developed.. like the liquid crystal that alows a blue laser, solid crystals crack when used in a blue laser assembly.)

I've owned MD players and Sony-Ericsson cellphones[/b]

So have I. With a hammer.

Originally posted by TheUnknown+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheUnknown)</div>

Another thing, as I mentioned, the PS3 is going to shoot for efficiancy. Yes, its going to make some heat, but the chips will be optimized at that point, so its not going to be anything like the prototypes. [/b]

Can you show me the source of how they plan to accomplish that low heat? Unless it's going to be a completely new way of designing CPUs from the basics up (not that likely) more speed = more transistors = more heat.

Originally posted by TheUnknown@

Coding on it I don't think is going to be as hard as you think. Supposidley the dev kit is supposed to be excellent (off-topic again, i hear Sony is going to work on a whole new graphics system.. to oust DirectX's lead, which i hope to god they do because DirectX is shit and devs are too lazy to work with OpenGL.) IBM also said they would adapt a *NIX based operating system to work on the cell (most likely linux-based, which is cool, won't have to deal with winblows shit like microsoft has.)

No matter how good the SDK will be. If it's using parallell processing power then the only good way to get any real advantage out of that will be by using simultaneous threads and even making a game using dual CPUs in a good way can be a real pain. Not to mention debugging it, ouch! Now try to do it with 8-12 threads. Good luck.
And just how much have you done in DirectX and OpenGL to back up those statements?

<!--QuoteBegin-TheUnknown

About bluray, Sony has not \"invented\" it. However, they hold many patents to the technology (technology they developed.. like the liquid crystal that alows a blue laser, solid crystals crack when used in a blue laser assembly.)

Fair enough

I personally just can't see the PS3 being viable within 2 years.

Specifically BECAUSE it has 2 tera-flops, and all that.

Financially, i can't see it being affordable for the average person.
All that stuff is gonna cost a lot. I mean. To transfer 2 teraflops of data, to and from the processor is gonna take a pretty impressive data bus system. Not to mention the RAM would have to be able to keep up, which would be pretty impressive. then on top of that, the heat dissipation systems would be fairly complicated. (ever tried pricing out a water-cooling system for a PC?? bet it cost a fair bit didn't it?)

I'm interested in this Blu-Ray though. How much does it store, and how fast can it read it off the disc?? fast enough to keep the processor fed?

The other point, (may be sorta moot, but) all this power.. it's gonna take electricity. and lots of it. how big of a hit would that be on my power-bill each month? lol.

anyway. that's my 2 cents.. maybe i'm just being back-wards thinkin' like the old guys that said we'd never have computers in our houses.

Like I said, you cannot underestimate the rate of technological advancement.

Say something like "broadband on your phone in a few years" and people want to laugh. Then they finally see it come out and they're the first one's out to buy the 1200 dollar piece of crap (Sadly, the first's are always pretty bad, and very expensive).

It's the same with plasma screens. There's burn in, and people still buy them, but in just a few years, burn in will be solved, and we'll have something half the price (yes, I know I'm mixing economics, but please bear with me). Companies and devices fluxuate in patterns.

However, when it comes to gaming consoles, many things are worked out to make it excessible to the consumer and the developers. Meaning, that half the things they promise you in the design phase are not possible when the system is released. The point of these is to raise eyebrows, and get the developers syched-up to make the end-all Uber-console. However, a lot of companies fail to set the bar between realism and idealism.

Ok, a few things to note.

#1. If you don't believe that breaking 1 teraflop barrier is believable in ps3 and personal computing.. believe it. IBM hasn't just started working on cell techology. Maybe it seems to be a new techonology, but it is not. Apple had implemented a very similiar techology in the PowerPC, the processors used in the PS3 and new PC's will have been based offa the PowerPC design, however IBM and Sony have taken it further.

#2 Kaniaz.. i'm not going to waste my time writing a response to senseless bashing that has no basis..

#3 Power consumption may be an issue for you. I doubt they will release a system thats going to burst into flames from the heat however. Perhaps you fail to see past the fact that they may not be utilized the whole time, certain portions of the cell will do things like graphics, while others handle processing and memory management. Think about it.. if you stress your PC's CPU, or even your vid card's GPU, the temp is gonna rise, obviously they can underclock chips and optimize them to not throw off as much heat. A nice sized heatsync and fan can dissapate the rest of the heat (who knows though.. it'd be awesome to see a water-cooled PS3 heheh)

#4 This should answer the rest of your questions on the bluray. http://www.blu-ray.com/info/. Just for your information though Blu-ray employs a 36Mbps data transfer rate and this is what it can store:
A single-layer disc can fit 23.3GB, 25GB or 27GB.
A dual-layer disc can fit 46.6GB, 50GB or 54GB.

#5 The early 2006 rumor comes from a few Sony employees letting it leak. However that is most likely jap release date. The US release will most likely come later in 2006. Sony may push the date back however if game developers are not ready.. nothing is set in stone.

#6 I don't think i mentioned it.. but it seems also sony will release two versions of the PS3. There will be a standard issue, much like the PS2 today, with PS3 hardware, then there will be a higher-end PS3, much like the PSX, which has things such as a harddrive and enhanced home theater stuff. This is a rumor, but it has a good basis, and seems probable Sony will head that way (the psx sold like crazy in Japan).

#7 I admit, i have only worked a little with OpenGL and not much with DirectX. I can't answer how they are going to handle the SDK at all. I do hate DirectX however and I say this mostly because of its liscensing and lack of being open-source. Well, tear me apart on that one, but that was mostly oppinion based.. not fact-based statement. (I have to admit though... Sony has become pretty bad with copy-protection and licensing lately. Look at OpenMG Jukebox heh. Microsoft is still worse though)

I think I hit most points there. Any grey areas and I'm sure i'll hear them, especially #7..

Originally posted by TheUnknown+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheUnknown)</div>

Ok, a few things to note.

#1. If you don't believe that breaking 1 teraflop barrier is believable in ps3 and personal computing.. believe it. IBM hasn't just started working on cell techology. Maybe it seems to be a new techonology, but it is not. Apple had implemented a very similiar techology in the PowerPC, the processors used in the PS3 and new PC's will have been based offa the PowerPC design, however IBM and Sony have taken it further.
[/b]

lemme rephrase that. i think it's possible. but i just don't see it happening in 2 years. i mean, look at how long it took us to go from 1ghz to 2ghz?

Originally posted by TheUnknown@

#3 Power consumption may be an issue for you. I doubt they will release a system thats going to burst into flames from the heat however. Perhaps you fail to see past the fact that they may not be utilized the whole time, certain portions of the cell will do things like graphics, while others handle processing and memory management. Think about it.. if you stress your PC's CPU, or even your vid card's GPU, the temp is gonna rise, obviously they can underclock chips and optimize them to not throw off as much heat. A nice sized heatsync and fan can dissapate the rest of the heat (who knows though.. it'd be awesome to see a water-cooled PS3 heheh)

SWEET!!! Let's build a REALLY fast chip.. then.. NOT USE IT!! booya! if we turn it off and slow it down it might be just as fast!! Why would they design an uber-chip and then underclock it?

<!--QuoteBegin-TheUnknown

#4 This should answer the rest of your questions on the bluray. http://www.blu-ray.com/info/. Just for your information though Blu-ray employs a 36Mbps data transfer rate and this is what it can store:
A single-layer disc can fit 23.3GB, 25GB or 27GB.
A dual-layer disc can fit 46.6GB, 50GB or 54GB.

thanks for the info. very enlightening. especially for those of us too lazy to "research" lol.
but.. ah geez! that's my entire hard-drive on one disc! OY!