Thread: Obama supports 'the right' for ground zero mosque

You're at war with terrorists. Not Islam.

Obama has said the only thing he could possibly have said without violating your own constitution.

I don't understand any of this controversy. It's a blatant logical fallacy. Why shouldn't a mosque be built? I assume nobody would object to a church. Hence you're saying the problem is with Islam. And obviously the problem with Islam was that the terrorists were Muslim. So... the inference here is that the terrorists were bad, and the terrorists were Muslims, hence Muslims are bad. Which is the fallacy. The terrorists also had beards. Are people with beards allowed near ground zero? Also, they were all men. Surely that's not a coincidence... I guess the only logical conclusion is that all men are bad, right? Let's not build any public toilets for men near ground zero, either. To do otherwise would be a flagrant insult to American history.

I wonder if there are any churches in Oklahoma City. I hope not. That would be a desecration! Remember that guy who killed all those people with that bomb; he was Christian, right..?

I think its an awful idea, but disallowing the building of a mosque is wrong as well.

It's funny to see people blame an entire religion on the actions of 20-or-so nutjobs, though.

The whole reason we are at war is because the American people's emotions were played since 9/11 in which they were told/implicated it was Islam. Are people really that blind? Seems so since we are in the Middle East for this reason, though now the table cloth has been pulled off the table to reveal a different reason why we are over there. It is a complete bait and switch.

Really people? You are completely missing the point. If you were president, why even insert yourself into the situation? There is literally no gain or point for him to do so. It just creates a new controversy.

Also, what do I think about it? I think the war is bullshit and even if I believed in the war I wouldn't be blaming the actions of a select few on the majority. You two need to re-read my first post because what I'm saying completely went over your heads.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Also, what do I think about it? I think the war is bullshit and even if I believed in the war I wouldn't be blaming the actions of a select few on the majority. You two need to re-read my first post because what I'm saying completely went over your heads.

Easy there, tough-guy. I wasn't replying to your post. I was merely sharing my experiences with people getting all pissy about the mosque and my thoughts on the building of one.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

The whole reason we are at war is because the American people's emotions were played since 9/11 in which they were told/implicated it was Islam. Are people really that blind? Seems so since we are in the Middle East for this reason, though now the table cloth has been pulled off the table to reveal a different reason why we are over there. It is a complete bait and switch.

What are you talking about? You went to war with Afghanistan because the regime there supported the terrorists which attacked your country. Not because they were Muslims?

When has that ever been the official line? There would be outrage if something like that were ever stated by the administration. And even if it were implied by the previous administration, Obama's rhetoric has never been anything like that.

You're not making any sense at all.

Really people? You are completely missing the point. If you were president, why even insert yourself into the situation? There is literally no gain or point for him to do so. It just creates a new controversy.

Um... because he's the president? Aaand... all he did was reiterate the constitution?

I really don't like Obama and I think he is a moron, and I hate all his policies, and honestly I think he policies are evil. However in this case he is actually right. They bought the land, they can build whatever they want on it. Simple as that.

Evil? Like... Adolf Hitler evil?

Ah well. Democracy's a bitch, ain't it?

Well they are both socialist, who like to expand government to extreme sizes. I wouldn't quiet go that far though, because there is still a huge difference between the two, and I doubt Obama is ever going to out right kill anyone.

So how much has Obama expanded the government again?

As for being socialist: aren't we all just a little bit socialist?

I don't see what the fuss is about. There's been a mosque (the Masjid) four blocks from the World Trade Center location for over 40 years and no one says anything about that.

eta: Hilter was fascist, not socialist.

The postal system is socialist, public schools are socialist, police force is socialist, medicare and medicaid is socialist, welfare is socialist, etc... So yes, we are all a little bit socialist. Socialism is a bad word that people use to instill fear and anger. How has Obama expanded the government? Did he create a new department called Homeland Security? Anyway, off topic.

As to why he said it? Why not? I am sure a lot of people who already hate him and fear him and Muslims will get their panties in a bunch over this statement, but, so what? Freedom is freedom, and you know that freedom of religion is given to us so we don't realize that we don't have other freedoms. At least we can choose what we believe, instead of how we live.

Originally Posted by Alric

Well they are both socialist, who like to expand government to extreme sizes. I wouldn't quiet go that far though, because there is still a huge difference between the two, and I doubt Obama is ever going to out right kill anyone.

I wouldn't go so far as to call him socialist. Corporatist fits fairly well.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

As for being socialist: aren't we all just a little bit socialist?

Depends on your definition of socialist.

Originally Posted by Alric

I really don't like Obama and I think he is a moron, and I hate all his policies, and honestly I think he policies are evil.

Liberals: object to using taxpayer money to kill people


Conservatives: object to using taxpayer money to save people

Bush being an idiot, doesn't make Obama any less of a idiot. He has increased government spending, increased government handouts, the health care stuff, the bailouts, all the new government offices he created, there is just a huge list of things he did to increase government.

Its also funny how you say liberals are against the war, but Obama isn't against the war and he is supposed to liberal. Funny how he says stuff like that, then gets elected and doesn't do anything he said. We are still waging the same wars and ever, and spending even more money on them.

Originally Posted by Alric

Bush being an idiot, doesn't make Obama any less of a idiot. He has increased government spending, increased government handouts, the health care stuff, the bailouts, all the new government offices he created, there is just a huge list of things he did to increase government.

All in response to the big fuckin' recession that Bush created. It's working, btw.

Its also funny how you say liberals are against the war, but Obama isn't against the war and he is supposed to liberal. Funny how he says stuff like that, then gets elected and doesn't do anything he said. We are still waging the same wars and ever, and spending even more money on them.

Obama set a scale for troop withdrawal from Iraq, one of the most pointless wars in U.S. history. The only reason we're still in Afghanistan is that the Taliban actually sort of poses a legitimate threat. Pakistan does have nuclear weapons, and the Taliban is invading. The Taliban, not Iraq, was directly responsible for 9/11. Even this, though, is not enough to convince many democrats and liberals in the house and senate. Republicans still encourage the war, but the dems are getting cold feet, and are craving troop withdrawal. Obama himself actually proposed a timetable for troop withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by Mario92

All in response to the big fuckin' recession that Bush created. It's working, btw.

As much as I hate defending Bush, it was not his fault completely. It had been coming for a while. People such as Ron Paul were talking about a housing crisis as early as 2001, I believe. Federal actions in housing areas were occurring in 2000 as well.

And merely stating "it's working" while talking about Obama's response to the economy is rather shallow and could use a bit of explaining.

Pretty much everybody was as stupid as each other really. But leaders really should be the ones to get a handle on things.

My parents always said the debt binge was a ridiculous fairytale. Unfortunately the way things have turned out, the idiots who caused this mess by spending loads of money they never had any valid reason to think they'd be able to pay back have extremely low rates now, whilst the people who were responsible and saved are now having their money stolen by the state inflating it away.

It's far too early to say if what Obama's doing is 'working' though. There's plenty of signs it isn't, and we'll only really know when events have transpired.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

As much as I hate defending Bush, it was not his fault completely. It had been coming for a while. People such as Ron Paul were talking about a housing crisis as early as 2001, I believe. Federal actions in housing areas were occurring in 2000 as well.

They saw it coming. Yet they did nothing to stop it. Regulating the banking industry would likely have at least dampened the blow.

And merely stating "it's working" while talking about Obama's response to the economy is rather shallow and could use a bit of explaining.

Thanks to the Obama bailout of GM, for the first time in a long time, GM is reporting profit. Job loss has slowed down considerably, and housing is returning to its former glory. At the very least, Obama hasn't hurt anything.

Originally Posted by Mario92

They saw it coming. Yet they did nothing to stop it. Regulating the banking industry would likely have at least dampened the blow.

Thanks to the Obama bailout of GM, for the first time in a long time, GM is reporting profit. Job loss has slowed down considerably, and housing is returning to its former glory. At the very least, Obama hasn't hurt anything.

Indeed, some saw it coming. Those that saw it coming warned others. Those that were warned decided to ignore it. In 2003-04 Ron Paul was warning about a housing bubble, yet the most popular of mainstream economists ignored the warnings. "Look at all of this growth! We're fine!" seemed to have been the common thoughts before the bubble burst.

You're looking to trim branches when you should be striking at the root of the problem. The problem is not "doing nothing to stop it." Actions to dampen the blow, especially regulating the banking industry (on top of all the regulations already in place) may have dampened the blow for a short time, but the effects would be prolonged and worse in the long run.

Thanks to the Obama bailout of GM, for the first time in a long time, GM is reporting profit. Job loss has slowed down considerably, and housing is returning to its former glory. At the very least, Obama hasn't hurt anything.

It seems that you read Geither's post in the NY Times stating the recovery is upon us and decided to run with it. Unfortunately jobs are still being lost (131k during July, 10.5m since '07), inflation (value of the dollar is still going down) and debt is growing by leaps and strides (nat'l debt will be ~13.6t by the end of the year [and that's not even counting the unfunded liabilities which makes the current debt look like chump change), and even those in the mainstream media are coming to the conclusion that a "double-dip" recession is likely.

I'm reminded of a quote that I heard about a year ago (this isn't the exact quote): "Wile E. Coyote [playing the part of the economy] runs off a cliff, hovers, falls, then grabs on to a weak, withered branch and MSNBC reports that the economy is recovering."

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

You're looking to trim branches when you should be striking at the root of the problem. The problem is not "doing nothing to stop it." Actions to dampen the blow, especially regulating the banking industry (on top of all the regulations already in place) may have dampened the blow for a short time, but the effects would be prolonged and worse in the long run.

What is your solution?

It seems that you read Geither's post in the NY Times stating the recovery is upon us and decided to run with it. Unfortunately jobs are still being lost (131k during July, 10.5m since '07), inflation (value of the dollar is still going down) and debt is growing by leaps and strides (nat'l debt will be ~13.6t by the end of the year [and that's not even counting the unfunded liabilities which makes the current debt look like chump change), and even those in the mainstream media are coming to the conclusion that a "double-dip" recession is likely.

I'm reminded of a quote that I heard about a year ago (this isn't the exact quote): "Wile E. Coyote [playing the part of the economy] runs off a cliff, hovers, falls, then grabs on to a weak, withered branch and MSNBC reports that the economy is recovering."

Obama walked into the office with a starting national debt of $10.6 trillion. Job loss is ongoing, but at a slower rate than before. I'm not saying Obama has been doing a perfect job, but for the most part, I agree with his actions. There's only so much that can be done.

So Obama got into office and the debt was 10 trillion, and now its 13 trillion and you think that is a good thing? You must be one of the people who thinks the only way to get out of debt is to spend more money. I wont even go into the horrible logic involved in that, because I think we all know how stupid the idea is.

It seems like a slap in the face to us Americans....But they have the freedom of religion so I wont complain.

As for being socialist: aren't we all just a little bit socialist?

Do we have to be?

It seems like a slap in the face to us Americans....But they have the freedom of religion so I wont complain.

...and an American is what, exactly..?

Well They are building the mosque here........we had to go through 9/11 which was a rough day for our country. If you think Im putting Americans on a pedestal I am not. I was just stating that its a bit strange to put the Mosque there.

Other than that I could care less about it.