Anyone want to leave society?

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

There is nothing crazy about having survival skills. There is nothing crazy about practicing going into the woods with just a knife and thriving.

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Clearly Tommo wants to take this far more seriously than survival skills and practice. What he is posting makes it sound long term.

And?

If I don't particularly enjoy anything this current western society has to offer me, why shouldn't I seek something else?

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Originally Posted by tommo

If I don't particularly enjoy anything this current western society has to offer me, why shouldn't I seek something else?

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Oh, no no. Please do feel free to live in a quiet place. Just don't be a psycho about it and think you can build your own house out of logs and hunt your own food and survive with nothing. That is just mad.

You aren't abandoning society. You are abandoning innovation and technology because you think old times were so great. Which they weren't.

Nothing wrong with that. There are people who do that and it is fun. In fact, people have always been doing that as long as there were people. This society is only a modern thing. It is really sad that animals have more rights than people sometimes. An animal is allowed to go live in the woods. A human is not allowed to unless he owns the land, and pays taxes. If he doesn't own the land then he is trespassing. Even homeless people don't have equal rights. While they cannot pass laws making it illegal to be homeless, they make laws around the homeless people making it impossible for homeless people to not break the law. People are more prejudiced against homeless people than any other minority. It is so widespread that it isn't even questioned. For example: in most places it is illegal to sleep anywhere accept in a house, or hotel, etc.... Even in your van or motor-home it is illegal to sleep. But they only enforce these laws on the people who are leaving society.

If someone wants to spend the rest of their life hunting and gathering and living in a wikiup the more power to them. There are people who like homesteading and living on the frontier and rightly so. Different strokes for different folks. In the state of Alaska wild game makes up about 70% to 80% of the food consumed by the whole state.

Tommo, learn to make fire, learn to make an atlatl and bows and arrows and traps, to preserve meat and to tan hides. Learn to stay warm and dry. Learn where to find clay and how to make pottery and fire it. Learn how to make baskets and cordage. Find some friends who also like this and go practice it. It is so much fun when you successfully make your first fire without match or lighter, when you build a warm, dry, comfortable shelter, and can produce all the food you need. It just gets lonely. Also it is much easier for a group of people to work together than for an individual to survive. You will be too busy every day unless you live in the tropics.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Nothing wrong with that. There are people who do that and it is fun. In fact, people have always been doing that as long as there were people. This society is only a modern thing. It is really sad that animals have more rights than people sometimes.

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Whoops
There goes your credibility.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Whoops
There goes your credibility.

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Nice counter-point.

Thanks Dannon, I've looked up some of those things before. Just looking forward to putting them in to practice.
I really do want to try it on my own, at least once. But if I find people who want to do the same, that would be great also.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

There is nothing crazy about having survival skills. There is nothing crazy about practicing going into the woods with just a knife and thriving. There are thousands of people who do this. There is nothing crazy about not trusting this society to support us. However.... people do need companionship or else they go crazy. You need to have someone else around, even if he or she is a jerk or a bitch. Or else your best friend will end up being a basketball, or a rock. Hermits are either crazy or very spiritually advanced. The normal person needs people, or at least a dog or a cat.

So, a group of like-minded people can support each other and create their own society that is more harmonious to their spirit than this current psychotic society. There is nothing wrong or crazy about rejecting this society if you have a better idea. And going back to nature is always a better idea. Being independent is hard and lonely. We are social creatures, we are inter-dependent. But what are you dependent on right now? What are you inter-dependent on? We are dependent on gas and oil, corporations and banks, etc... They need our labor and time in order to give them power and we need them to survive. What if this is not what fulfills you? What if you would rather be inter-dependent on your tribe, your family and friends, and nature?

I have many friends here in Colorado who practice and teach survival skills. They can go into the woods with just a knife and their shoelaces and thrive. I used to do this, but it was lonely. I don't really need much, but I do need a circle of great stand-up people to be with. The Indians all work together to survive, and they had a great society. America's founding fathers learned more about democracy from the Indians than they did the Greeks. But now look at our democracy! They are trying to hold onto their ways, the Indians are.

It is fine to leave society if you have a better idea. I have lived on many communes and visited hundreds, but I always left because the people may have had a good life, but they were not my family/friends. They were mostly old hippies and were very boring. I also have spent lots of time with anarchist/ squatter/ gutter-punks and although sometimes it was fun, mostly it was unhealthy and still dependent on society.

So I have arrived at sailing. Sailing I will be intimately related to the elements, I will be self-sufficient, and I will have friends to spend time with on the open ocean and at port towns. I will not be confined to a nook of the forest, I can go into town and party all over the world. If society collapses my friends and I will be OK. Most of the time it will be easy lounging on deck with a steering wheel, and sometimes it will be an adrenaline filled battle with a storm. There is a society that left society and still can enjoy culture and that is the sailors.

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If you ever come to Victoria BC (port town, Navy are here) send me a PM. I'm sure you wont be for many years, though.

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Originally Posted by tommo

Maybe you need to do it too then. To realise that you don't need other people. You are correct though, and I'm not saying your choice is stupid either.

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I love camping and i'd LOVE to learn how to track like Locke from Lost, i thought that guy was awesome! but i'm just not into living in nature long term or short term unless it's a weekend thing in the bush.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Whoops
There goes your credibility.

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I am not trying to be credible to anybody, I am just talking the truth. Your response is an ad hominem. Those who hear me recognize it. If an animal has the right to live in the forest, why not man? I am not saying that animals have more rights than people, I am just saying that this is a right that animals have that humans don't. I could probably think of other rights that animals have that people don't. Ok, an animal is allowed to rape another animal. A mountain lion is allowed to kill a deer outside of deer hunting season. An animal is allowed to catch a fish anyway they can while people have to use the difficult method of a fishing pole. There are easier ways, but illegal, to catch a fish. Of course, an animal might not also give these rights to a human. A bear might say "You aren't allowed here, this is MY land." and kill me like in Grizzley Man.

@LucidFlanders: I have been to Victoria a couple times, very beautiful. Next time I go I will PM you if I remember to.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

If an animal has the right to live in the forest, why not man?

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Because man is not just any old animal. I am not talking about rights. Like any ANIMAL we create our own society. Ants have their dirt hill nests. Bees have their hives. Humans have their towns and cities. Its natural for creatures to live in societies of their own.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that our society is a natural one that encourages sanity and happiness that we deserve. Leaving THIS society doesn't necessarily mean cutting off all relationships. There is actually a loose-knit society of survivalists out there who work together, not to mention Indians who still live the old way where they can get away with it, as well as a good portion of the population of out of the way places like Alaska, the Northern Territories, Siberia, Northern Scandinavia, and many big mountain ranges as well as lots of South America. Leaving THIS society to live a more natural and fulfilling life is fine, if someone wants to do it. It is one thing if you don't see the point of it or don't prefer it, but to criticize others for wanting to do it, or just being interested in the idea is kind of strange.

tommo is not the only one who wants to leave this society. I also do. What do you think of my sailing idea? Is that crazy? There are tons of sailors who have done just that. I have left society already many times and if it weren't for certain obligations I would not be part of it now. There are many alternative societies out there that one can be a part of. There are a few societies that don't use money but have quite a modern technology of farming, etc. Actually more modern than our society's because they are completely self-sufficient and even produce their own fuel sustainably. That one is in Colombia but you have to trek some 40 miles through guerrilla infested jungle to get there. But there are pan-continental movements going on. I recommend tropical living because it is so much easier. Except that for some reason tropical areas seem to have either lots of violence like revolutionary war, civil war, racial war, or it is overtaken by the rich. It is funny how people can't live in peace in paradise. The Hawaiians were living in Paradise but somehow they would keep fighting each other, even though they had one King and Queen. But I lived very well outside of society in Hawaii. I was on Kauai but there is much more opportunity for that on the Big Island. There are lots of Vietnam Vets who live out there outside of society on the Big Island. South Western Oregon and Northern California has a lot of fugitives of the law living outside of society. Texas and New Mexico and Arizona has a lot of people living in the desert. The southern appalachian mountains also has lots of people living out there but they are kind of dangerously weird. Have you seen the movie Deliverance?

Anyway, the challenge is to provide yourself with enough food. You burn a lot more calories in that lifestyle trying to hunt up a little food. It is virtually impossible to be a survivalist or a homesteader outside of the tropics and be a vegetarian. I did it, but in the winter I did depend on society for some food, much like the hermits of China. That is an interesting story: during the Cultural Revolution in China the army hunted out hermits and killed them. The ones who survived were the most extreme hermits living deep in the Kunlun Mountains (Mountains of the Moon) some of the tallest mountains in the world. But even they would come into town to buy tea and rice every once in a while. They were also mostly vegetarian and lived in extreme climate conditions. But it was their mastery of Taoist energy cultivation that enabled them to thrive and in some cases documented at living as long as 140 years and remaining kung fu masters and mentally alert.

The desert is kind of easy to live in if you have a source of water because there are plenty of rodents and rabbits to live off of. You could learn falconry and your falcon could be your friend and also get jackrabbits for you. I bet javelinas are tasty. But stay away from armadillos, they carry leprosy. Also, there are quite a few tasty cacti but most are bitter. The bitter ones taste better when roasted. Also roasted grasshoppers are a delicacy and a good source of protein. Just get a nice stick and swat them while you walk through the grass. Each time you kill one impale it on your skewer like a kabob. When your skewer is full make a small fire and roast them and you have lunch! Also you got to pick a butterfly's wings off before you eat him. Slugs make a good soup broth and add some wild onions and sunchoke tubers and yum! At first a lot of your food will taste bland because you probably don't have salt to put in it. But eventually your taste adapts and it tastes good. You get all the salt you need from the food. But if you live by the ocean then you have a source for salt and iodine. Iodine is important. I don't know how all these people thrived without iodine. That is why I never went too long without some sea-salt.

For shelter you need two things: dry and insulating. Insulation is having air space in the walls. I guess tepees aren't so insulating but back then they were covered with buffalo hides rather than canvas. In a pinch you can take a garbage bag and fill it with crumpled up newspapers to use as a sleeping bag. And you can use cardboard as a sleeping mat to insulate you from the cold ground. But that is urban survival.

Shelters are fun to build. Especially if it is not a matter of life and death. I have built lots of shelters, most of them temporary that I took down when I left. But I built a nice A-frame cabin in Northern California once. I salvaged a wood-burning-stove from an abandoned cabin. I actually carved a cave into a sandstone cliff once. I worked on that for about two years and it ended up being a very nice spacious protected comfortable inconspicuous home. I think I already told you that I lived in a cool redwood tree-trunk. Those were the days! Wikiups are easy and fun to build. It is difficult to waterproof them but I usually had a tarp. The best way to waterproof them is to shingle them with bark and clay mixed with grass. You can use just grass if you want to thatch it but I never did have the patience for that nor was I ever successful. And to think that you have to do it again once the grass rots! I also built a hut in the canyon in Sedona Arizona out of rock and dirt with a stick and grass roof. It barely rained there.

Ah... if I didn't have responsibilities and obligations and commitments right now I would be living that way now. Now I live in a tent and have a car and have a job and buy most of my food... But someday! Someday soon! I can see that I could be free in six years, if the world will wait for me.

By the way, in event of societal collapse, WWIII, famine or epidemics the best place to survive in the States is Western Colorado/Eastern Utah or Northern Nevada and Eastern Oregon.

As far as sailing goes, in the tropical areas there is the risk of falling prey to pirates. Pirates in the South Pacific and in Southwestern Asia and in the Mediterranean and off the coast of Africa. That is why sailors sail together in small fleets.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Yes, but that doesn't mean that our society is a natural one that encourages sanity and happiness that we deserve.

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Natural? Well that is NATURAL human behaviour. And who says natural is "good" anyway? Rape happens in the natural world. So does murder. You saying we should adopt that too? And since when are all animals sane and happy? That's not guaranteed in the wild, and truly we can't tell how emotionally and mentally comfortable any animal is, if at all.

You know what else isn't natural? Lucid dreaming. "Naturally" we as humans aren't suppose to constantly be aware in our dreams, and most of the human race isn't even aware of how to do this.

Whatever...

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Yes, but that doesn't mean that our society is a natural one that encourages sanity and happiness that we deserve. Leaving THIS society doesn't necessarily mean cutting off all relationships. There is actually a loose-knit society of survivalists out there who work together, not to mention Indians who still live the old way where they can get away with it, as well as a good portion of the population of out of the way places like Alaska, the Northern Territories, Siberia, Northern Scandinavia, and many big mountain ranges as well as lots of South America. Leaving THIS society to live a more natural and fulfilling life is fine, if someone wants to do it. It is one thing if you don't see the point of it or don't prefer it, but to criticize others for wanting to do it, or just being interested in the idea is kind of strange.

tommo is not the only one who wants to leave this society. I also do. What do you think of my sailing idea? Is that crazy? There are tons of sailors who have done just that. I have left society already many times and if it weren't for certain obligations I would not be part of it now. There are many alternative societies out there that one can be a part of. There are a few societies that don't use money but have quite a modern technology of farming, etc. Actually more modern than our society's because they are completely self-sufficient and even produce their own fuel sustainably. That one is in Colombia but you have to trek some 40 miles through guerrilla infested jungle to get there. But there are pan-continental movements going on. I recommend tropical living because it is so much easier. Except that for some reason tropical areas seem to have either lots of violence like revolutionary war, civil war, racial war, or it is overtaken by the rich. It is funny how people can't live in peace in paradise. The Hawaiians were living in Paradise but somehow they would keep fighting each other, even though they had one King and Queen. But I lived very well outside of society in Hawaii. I was on Kauai but there is much more opportunity for that on the Big Island. There are lots of Vietnam Vets who live out there outside of society on the Big Island. South Western Oregon and Northern California has a lot of fugitives of the law living outside of society. Texas and New Mexico and Arizona has a lot of people living in the desert. The southern appalachian mountains also has lots of people living out there but they are kind of dangerously weird. Have you seen the movie Deliverance?

Anyway, the challenge is to provide yourself with enough food. You burn a lot more calories in that lifestyle trying to hunt up a little food. It is virtually impossible to be a survivalist or a homesteader outside of the tropics and be a vegetarian. I did it, but in the winter I did depend on society for some food, much like the hermits of China. That is an interesting story: during the Cultural Revolution in China the army hunted out hermits and killed them. The ones who survived were the most extreme hermits living deep in the Kunlun Mountains (Mountains of the Moon) some of the tallest mountains in the world. But even they would come into town to buy tea and rice every once in a while. They were also mostly vegetarian and lived in extreme climate conditions. But it was their mastery of Taoist energy cultivation that enabled them to thrive and in some cases documented at living as long as 140 years and remaining kung fu masters and mentally alert.

The desert is kind of easy to live in if you have a source of water because there are plenty of rodents and rabbits to live off of. You could learn falconry and your falcon could be your friend and also get jackrabbits for you. I bet javelinas are tasty. But stay away from armadillos, they carry leprosy. Also, there are quite a few tasty cacti but most are bitter. The bitter ones taste better when roasted. Also roasted grasshoppers are a delicacy and a good source of protein. Just get a nice stick and swat them while you walk through the grass. Each time you kill one impale it on your skewer like a kabob. When your skewer is full make a small fire and roast them and you have lunch! Also you got to pick a butterfly's wings off before you eat him. Slugs make a good soup broth and add some wild onions and sunchoke tubers and yum! At first a lot of your food will taste bland because you probably don't have salt to put in it. But eventually your taste adapts and it tastes good. You get all the salt you need from the food. But if you live by the ocean then you have a source for salt and iodine. Iodine is important. I don't know how all these people thrived without iodine. That is why I never went too long without some sea-salt.

For shelter you need two things: dry and insulating. Insulation is having air space in the walls. I guess tepees aren't so insulating but back then they were covered with buffalo hides rather than canvas. In a pinch you can take a garbage bag and fill it with crumpled up newspapers to use as a sleeping bag. And you can use cardboard as a sleeping mat to insulate you from the cold ground. But that is urban survival.

Shelters are fun to build. Especially if it is not a matter of life and death. I have built lots of shelters, most of them temporary that I took down when I left. But I built a nice A-frame cabin in Northern California once. I salvaged a wood-burning-stove from an abandoned cabin. I actually carved a cave into a sandstone cliff once. I worked on that for about two years and it ended up being a very nice spacious protected comfortable inconspicuous home. I think I already told you that I lived in a cool redwood tree-trunk. Those were the days! Wikiups are easy and fun to build. It is difficult to waterproof them but I usually had a tarp. The best way to waterproof them is to shingle them with bark and clay mixed with grass. You can use just grass if you want to thatch it but I never did have the patience for that nor was I ever successful. And to think that you have to do it again once the grass rots! I also built a hut in the canyon in Sedona Arizona out of rock and dirt with a stick and grass roof. It barely rained there.

Ah... if I didn't have responsibilities and obligations and commitments right now I would be living that way now. Now I live in a tent and have a car and have a job and buy most of my food... But someday! Someday soon! I can see that I could be free in six years, if the world will wait for me.

By the way, in event of societal collapse, WWIII, famine or epidemics the best place to survive in the States is Western Colorado/Eastern Utah or Northern Nevada and Eastern Oregon.

As far as sailing goes, in the tropical areas there is the risk of falling prey to pirates. Pirates in the South Pacific and in Southwestern Asia and in the Mediterranean and off the coast of Africa. That is why sailors sail together in small fleets.

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You've truly traveled. I'm assuming you learned all this by going to these places?
I'm quite envious, and I think I'll have to either move to Europe or America.
Out here in Australia all we have is pretty much desert or modern civilisation hehe.
Of course there's some amazing beaches that I would love to live in if I find a secluded area there.
All our rainforests etc. are watched by the state though, so I'd have to kill anything I ate with a knife or spear etc. I spose.

How do the Chinese Hermits live in the mountains on a vegetarian diet?
Unless it's the less snowy regions? Going by google images it looks snowy for the most part.
I definitely want to visit China one day and Japan and find some Buddhist teachers.

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Originally Posted by tommo

I'm quite envious, and I think I'll have to either move to Europe or America.

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Why so western oriented?

Europe is so western isn't it? I know most of it is, but some isn't.

For some reason when I say Europe, I've always meant the huge chunk of land that contains Europe and Asia. Must have learned it wrong when I was a kid or something so it comes out when I don't think about it before I say it.
Nevertheless, there is still Sweden, Iceland etc. which are not really western, depending on how you define that.

The reason I said that is clearly because there are more diverse landscapes there. I like Australia's completely unique landscape, it's beautiful, but there are different ones out there that I would like to see as well.

I would not mind trying some of that Western medicine i'm always hearing about from DV. I get migranes a lot so something natural that works will be a better way to go then living off asprin which is harmfull in the long run (go figure it does not mention this on the bottle IIRC). Perhaps even try out that chi some of the guys use that makes tin foil turn hot and steamy.

I'm just going to drop in and drop out just as quickly, for the purpose of making a reading suggestion. This should be beneficial to anyone participating in this discussion who finds the idea of living outside of mainstream society to be outlandish. The book is called Ishmael, written by Daniel Quinn. Keep an open mind and you'll get a lot out of this simple book.

Take it or leave it :p

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

I would not mind trying some of that Western medicine i'm always hearing about from DV. I get migranes a lot so something natural that works will be a better way to go then living off asprin which is harmfull in the long run (go figure it does not mention this on the bottle IIRC). Perhaps even try out that chi some of the guys use that makes tin foil turn hot and steamy.

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You mean Eastern?
Most of it is useless. Besides making you feel good via placebo.
But there are medicines better, or at least as good as (depending how you measure it), Western medicine in Eastern medicine.
Especially for migraines; there are psilocybin mushrooms and DMT.
50mg of psilocybin works for most migraines and you'll probably barely even notice a change in perception.

BTW, aspirin is natural. It comes from willow bark.

I'm not sure why you posted that in here. There's probably something I'm missing, but I'll give you this information nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by tommo

You mean Eastern?
Most of it is useless. Besides making you feel good via placebo.
But there are medicines better, or at least as good as (depending how you measure it), Western medicine in Eastern medicine.
Especially for migraines; there are psilocybin mushrooms and DMT.
50mg of psilocybin works for most migraines and you'll probably barely even notice a change in perception.

BTW, aspirin is natural. It comes from willow bark.

I'm not sure why you posted that in here. There's probably something I'm missing, but I'll give you this information nonetheless.

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Maybe it was Eastern, i forget. I posted it because you were talking about Western.

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Originally Posted by tommo

You mean Eastern?
Most of it is useless. Besides making you feel good via placebo.

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/facepalm

This sums you up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tommo

You mean Eastern?
Most of it is useless. Besides making you feel good via placebo.
But there are medicines better, or at least as good as (depending how you measure it), Western medicine in Eastern medicine.
Especially for migraines; there are psilocybin mushrooms and DMT.
50mg of psilocybin works for most migraines and you'll probably barely even notice a change in perception.

BTW, aspirin is natural. It comes from willow bark.

I'm not sure why you posted that in here. There's probably something I'm missing, but I'll give you this information nonetheless.

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I don't know if I would take DMT for migraines. I guess psilocybin could work. If I were you i would just make some cannibinoil and add it to food. You will get pretty stoned depending on how much you add, but it should take away your migraines easy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tommo

Europe is so western isn't it? I know most of it is, but some isn't.

For some reason when I say Europe, I've always meant the huge chunk of land that contains Europe and Asia. Must have learned it wrong when I was a kid or something so it comes out when I don't think about it before I say it.
Nevertheless, there is still Sweden, Iceland etc. which are not really western, depending on how you define that.

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Iceland is really cold most of the year. A couple of friends lived there for a few years - you need a job and a house for sure. They worked with disabled people and it wasn't actually payed that badly and a (really nice) place to stay was included. There are not many countries, where you can just start living in the wild.

A while ago I was also getting sick of the same old (and Europe and Northern America are not really all that different) and wanted to explore more of the world. So I moved to Cambodia (that's just me, have been here for about a year now) and am loving it. (I went about it relatively smart) There are many people here doing all kinds of things: Musicians, Artists, NGOs, Cultural Managers, Teachers, Journalists, People that opened up a bar or guest house, and many more. But most of them have something interesting to tell, it's a more 'fun kind of society'. You can try out different things, meet people that have lived in alternative communities, regularly travel to india, have travelled all over the world, you can do retreats around SEAsia (meditation or whatever), recently I met a guy who basically just lives with fishing families and goes out fishing every morning - there are many more options... and of course there are a lot more countries in this area to pick. And you have a lot of options to choose from, even as an entrepreneur.

Just a thought: Explore a little what's out there before just dropping out entirely. Just try out a few things first and see what may be right for you. You are definitely not alone with the need to get out - and many people have done it. Compare, experiment, find your way.

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Originally Posted by Emecom

I don't know if I would take DMT for migraines. I guess psilocybin could work. If I were you i would just make some cannibinoil and add it to food. You will get pretty stoned depending on how much you add, but it should take away your migraines easy.

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lol DMT works. Psilocybin is DMT anyway. Just not N,N-DMT.
Of course you would only need a tiny dose as well.

Cannabis works too.

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Originally Posted by dajo

Iceland is really cold most of the year. A couple of friends lived there for a few years - you need a job and a house for sure. They worked with disabled people and it wasn't actually payed that badly and a (really nice) place to stay was included. There are not many countries, where you can just start living in the wild.

A while ago I was also getting sick of the same old (and Europe and Northern America are not really all that different) and wanted to explore more of the world. So I moved to Cambodia (that's just me, have been here for about a year now) and am loving it. (I went about it relatively smart) There are many people here doing all kinds of things: Musicians, Artists, NGOs, Cultural Managers, Teachers, Journalists, People that opened up a bar or guest house, and many more. But most of them have something interesting to tell, it's a more 'fun kind of society'. You can try out different things, meet people that have lived in alternative communities, regularly travel to india, have travelled all over the world, you can do retreats around SEAsia (meditation or whatever), recently I met a guy who basically just lives with fishing families and goes out fishing every morning - there are many more options... and of course there are a lot more countries in this area to pick. And you have a lot of options to choose from, even as an entrepreneur.

Just a thought: Explore a little what's out there before just dropping out entirely. Just try out a few things first and see what may be right for you. You are definitely not alone with the need to get out - and many people have done it. Compare, experiment, find your way.

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Thanks mate. I am definitely going to travel a bit first.

As for the cold, I love it. Besides my hands hurting constantly, but that's not really a big deal.
I would love to live there. It just looks beautiful and calm. I also hear that there are whales right off the shore.
Also Sigur Ros live there :lol: haha

Thanks for the advice! :D

Oh I didn't know that about DMT. While I knew it occurred naturally in animals, I always just thought of in the ayahuasca form which is suppose to be pretty powerful. But yeah I think Iceland would be awesome as well. But for now I want somewhere tropical!