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    Thread: Internet censorship

    1. #101
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      I do not think that downloading copyrighted songs and movies for free is right. I do it, I'm not going to deny that, but I agree with you who are against this that it is not right. But this proposal is interfering with my freedom of speech. And if there is anything I'm willing to fight for, it is my freedom of speech. This proposal gives the American government the right to
      - force google to censur the search results
      - shut down youtube
      - shut down twitter
      - shut down facebook
      - shut down Wikipedia
      - shut down a number of free debating sites around the world

      All of the websites that does not review the users post before publishing them are in other words at risk of being shut down if this proposal is accepted. Sites, where people are expressing their opinions and using their freedom of speech.

      You may say that you trust your government and the companies not to abuse their power. You might be right, but do you really want to be forced to rely on trust?
      With this new law, you can be sentenced to five years in prison simply by by posting a video of you singing a cover of a song on youtube.

      I say that if you give them this power, even if it is with a good purpose, eventually they are going to use it.

      Protest here: Avaaz - Save the Internet!
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    2. #102
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      I'm not too worried. Besides... worst comes to worst (as in complete internet shut/lockdown) we still have librarys, telephones, pmail (get it? physical mail! I crack myself up).

      Also, I'm in Canada... where for better or worse... many laws are 'lax' compared to US laws. I got an email from Warner Brothers (through shaw) because I downloaded Inception (not as great as I hoped) that essentially said "We know you downloaded copyright material... please stop... pretty please." There were no consequences hinted at... just a plea from a multimillion(likely billion) dollar corporation to give them another $30. Canada is awesome... so I figure even when (if) shit hits the fan in the US, we'll have a fews years till the splatter reaches us in any real way.
      Last edited by mindwanderer; 12-17-2011 at 06:13 PM.

    3. #103
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      mindwanderer I got the same message a few times for downloading something too.
      Problem was it was on a P2P network, and I was uploading it by accident because I forgot to remove it from my P2P folder. lol

    4. #104
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      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      mindwanderer I got the same message a few times for downloading something too.
      Problem was it was on a P2P network, and I was uploading it by accident because I forgot to remove it from my P2P folder. lol
      I don't understand how you guys can even get found out like that. Torrents are supposed to be almost impossible to track, and I've personally pirated thousands of dollars worth of material and never gotten an email...

    5. #105
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      Torrents are impossible to track?
      Oh wow....
      All you have to do is go to View Peers and there's a list right there of everybody's IP address who's downloading/uploading it.

    6. #106
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      Torrents are easy to track, but technically you can't be held accountable for anything going on in a torrent. You're only uploading bits and pieces and then somebody pools together what you sent with what others sent, to create a full file. For this reason, piracy is completely without risk in Denmark, unless you are literally retarded.
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    7. #107
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      < music > There has been an absolute explosion of originality in the last decade.
      I absolutely do not agree. It's all been done before in some form or another - there is no "original" music. The last "new pop music" rhythm format set to music was reggae.. and that was based on 4/4 - they just put the snare on 3 and the bass on 1, 2 and 4. All the so-called modern "experimental" techno/rhythm/improv stuff is rehash of what's already been. Nothing new under the sun...

    8. #108
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      The belief that anyone owns their ideas is absurd. The only ideas that you can claim as your own are the ones that you never express to anyone. The very act of communication is giving ideas to other people to use as they wish. Every musician 'steals' ideas from other musicians to make their own music. Every artist 'steals' concepts from other artists, from the world around them. Every thought in your brain is a combination of thoughts that you have 'stolen' from somewhere else. If someone is an artist, they don't need to try to protect their ideas from spreading to other people without their consent because it is in their best interest for those ideas to spread as far and wide as possible. They don't need to worry about other people making money off their ideas because people will be clamoring to pay them for their next one; the one that can't be stolen because it hasn't been communicated yet.

      The only people that are worried about ideas spreading without their consent are those people that have paid an artist to express an idea and therefore think that they are the new "owners" of said idea. They don't have the power to create new ideas and so they have to try to squeeze old ones for everything they are worth. This is a useless venture. Once you release an idea into the wild, it defies private ownership by its very existence.
      tommo and cmind like this.

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    9. #109
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      My favourite quote from art college students (heard it many times) was:

      Q) What are your formative influences?

      A) I haven't got any.
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    10. #110
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      The belief that anyone owns their ideas is absurd. The only ideas that you can claim as your own are the ones that you never express to anyone. The very act of communication is giving ideas to other people to use as they wish. Every musician 'steals' ideas from other musicians to make their own music. Every artist 'steals' concepts from other artists, from the world around them. Every thought in your brain is a combination of thoughts that you have 'stolen' from somewhere else. If someone is an artist, they don't need to try to protect their ideas from spreading to other people without their consent because it is in their best interest for those ideas to spread as far and wide as possible. They don't need to worry about other people making money off their ideas because people will be clamoring to pay them for their next one; the one that can't be stolen because it hasn't been communicated yet.

      The only people that are worried about ideas spreading without their consent are those people that have paid an artist to express an idea and therefore think that they are the new "owners" of said idea. They don't have the power to create new ideas and so they have to try to squeeze old ones for everything they are worth. This is a useless venture. Once you release an idea into the wild, it defies private ownership by its very existence.
      Well put.

    11. #111
      Xei
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      Xaqaria: how does that work with art which costs anything to produce? The idea that people would pay for the next product in the artist's brain isn't particularly connected to reality. Once a video game developer releases their product for example, it can be spread instantly. Why do you think people would give any money to the developer if it were not mandatory? There is no incentive here.

    12. #112
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      The belief that anyone owns their ideas is absurd. The only ideas that you can claim as your own are the ones that you never express to anyone. The very act of communication is giving ideas to other people to use as they wish. Every musician 'steals' ideas from other musicians to make their own music. Every artist 'steals' concepts from other artists, from the world around them. Every thought in your brain is a combination of thoughts that you have 'stolen' from somewhere else. If someone is an artist, they don't need to try to protect their ideas from spreading to other people without their consent because it is in their best interest for those ideas to spread as far and wide as possible. They don't need to worry about other people making money off their ideas because people will be clamoring to pay them for their next one; the one that can't be stolen because it hasn't been communicated yet.

      The only people that are worried about ideas spreading without their consent are those people that have paid an artist to express an idea and therefore think that they are the new "owners" of said idea. They don't have the power to create new ideas and so they have to try to squeeze old ones for everything they are worth. This is a useless venture. Once you release an idea into the wild, it defies private ownership by its very existence.
      God damn, well said man!

      "As soon as you say your idea out loud, then it can go and, live on it's own"

    13. #113
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Xaqaria: how does that work with art which costs anything to produce? The idea that people would pay for the next product in the artist's brain isn't particularly connected to reality. Once a video game developer releases their product for example, it can be spread instantly. Why do you think people would give any money to the developer if it were not mandatory? There is no incentive here.
      You're being deliberately dense here just to stick to a position which is obviously flawed. The original publisher/developer can give people packaging (which some people value a lot), additional materials (for example the Skyrim box comes with a map), technical support, patch support (say you can only download a patch if you have a proof of purchase), security of knowing you're not downloading viruses, etc etc. Do all these features justify the current price of games? Probably not, but who the hell are you to say what the price of a video game should be?

      With music, the artist can make money from packaging, additional materials like biographies or sheet music, concert tickets, etc. Again, the only problem is your extreme lack of imagination.
      Last edited by cmind; 12-20-2011 at 01:07 AM.

    14. #114
      Xei
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      Uh... I'm not. The developer is. You're the one saying it should be free. Derp.

      Your solution is that they are going to recoup the development costs by selling boxes to people who want them? Not exactly realistic, is it?

      Especially bearing mind you also think anybody should be able to make the box, and the cost of materials is about 10p.

      Anybody can download additional content and patches just like anybody can download the game in the first place.

    15. #115
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      If you really think that torrents are anonymous, try this out:
      www.youhavedownloaded.com

      While I'm not against illegal downloading, I still think it's important to know that you're being watched by a lot of people and agencies.

    16. #116
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Uh... I'm not. The developer is. You're the one saying it should be free. Derp.

      Your solution is that they are going to recoup the development costs by selling boxes to people who want them? Not exactly realistic, is it?

      Especially bearing mind you also think anybody should be able to make the box, and the cost of materials is about 10p.

      Anybody can download additional content and patches just like anybody can download the game in the first place.
      Ok now go ahead and read my last post? Derp?

    17. #117
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vertebrate View Post
      If you really think that torrents are anonymous, try this out:
      www.youhavedownloaded.com

      While I'm not against illegal downloading, I still think it's important to know that you're being watched by a lot of people and agencies.
      That site doesn't actually work, btw.

    18. #118
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      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      That site doesn't actually work, btw.
      I don't know how much information they've actually collected, and I know they haven't gotten any information from my static IP address.

    19. #119
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Xaqaria: how does that work with art which costs anything to produce? The idea that people would pay for the next product in the artist's brain isn't particularly connected to reality. Once a video game developer releases their product for example, it can be spread instantly. Why do you think people would give any money to the developer if it were not mandatory? There is no incentive here.
      This is how these things actually do work. Developers do not front a bunch of cash to make a game and then hope it sells, production companies pay developers to make a game and then the producer sells the game with the hopes that they will be able to sell enough copies to make a profit off of their investment. The developer has gotten their money by the time the game hits the shelves (or is available for download or whatever); unless they also have some sort of profit sharing percentage in their contracts which wouldn't surprise me.

      Regardless, the production companies are hiring developers that have a portfolio of work that they like. Just like writers who shop around their first book but then the publisher pays them a retainer to write their next one. Unless people are trying to pass off an artist's work as their own, artists are very rarely the ones who are complaining about its illegal distribution.

      I think its funny that some people say that the only time it isn't okay to pirate movies or music or whatever is when it is a small time independent artist's work, since that is the one group of people that would most like their work to 'get out there' any way possible, even if it means they aren't getting as much money as they theoretically could if all those people paid for it. New artists will often willfully give their work away just so that more people will be exposed to it. If they are successful, it means that the right people have seen/heard their work and commission them to do something new.
      Last edited by Xaqaria; 12-20-2011 at 05:11 AM.

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    20. #120
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      It most likely only tracks popular public trackers, which will only catch a very small fraction of anything.

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    21. #121
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      Go to your computer’s Start menu, and either go to “run” or just search for “cmd.” Open it up, and type in “ping [website address],”


      Once you have the IP for a website, all you really need to do is enter it like you would a normal URL and hit enter/press go. Typing in “208.85.240.231” should bring you to the front page of AO3, for example, just as typing “174.121.194.34/dashboard” should bring you straight to your Tumblr dashboard.

      My suggestion is to make a list of all your website IP addresses now, while you still can. Here's an example:

      Spoiler for IP list:
      tommo likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    22. #122
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      Apparently Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Amazon, etc. may boycott SOPA (under the condition that it passes, which they'd hope it doesn't pass at all of course.) by shutting down their sites until it is repealed. I made a thread on the topic http://www.dreamviews.com/f36/sopa-u...sponse-126328/
      tommo likes this.

    23. #123
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      Even if just one of those sites shuts down with a message to its users explaining that they are boycotting SOPA, the millions of brain dead users (think facebook) who can't go a day without that shit will throw a huge fit. It will be interesting to watch, that is for sure. If only the airlines stood up for themselves this way when TSA was first created.
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    24. #124
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      Even if just one of those sites shuts down with a message to its users explaining that they are boycotting SOPA, the millions of brain dead users (think facebook) who can't go a day without that shit will throw a huge fit. It will be interesting to watch, that is for sure. If only the airlines stood up for themselves this way when TSA was first created.
      Yes, but I personally doubt any of those sites will go through with it. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm rarely wrong.

    25. #125
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      Quote Originally Posted by cmind View Post
      I'm rarely wrong.
      >.>
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      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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