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    Thread: Are Republicans delusional or knowingly ruining the country?

    1. #1
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      Are Republicans delusional or knowingly ruining the country?

      We've been going with Trickle-Down Economics for about 30 years now, and Orwellian words like "job-creator" still get thrown around as though allowing the wealthy to make even more money has actually created more jobs. Adjusted for inflation, since 1966 the average worker's salary in the bottom 90% has gone up 59 dollars per year. Meanwhile, in the top 10% its gone up over $116,000 and in the top 1% it's gone up $366,623.

      While worker productivity has remained just as high, their wages have nearly completely flat-lined compared to wage growth prior to 1966. Corporate profits are at record breaking highs, Wallstreet is doing better than ever before, meanwhile unemployment is higher than it's been since the Great Depression and the homeless population has continued growing steadily.

      So the facts are out, trickle-down economics are bullshit, the entire republican model to economic recovery is bullshit, and their desire to invoke european styled austerity will fail just as hard as it is in Europe. So there's really only one question left, are Republicans evil, or stupid?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      The current fuck up is a democrat, buddy boy. Republicans are fucked but so are democrats. Sorry.

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      I think calling "job creator" an Orwellian term is slightly hysterical. Personal greed does motivate entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs do create businesses which create value and employ people. The only point of contention is how far you take the concept; it's a quantitative issue, not a qualitative one.

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      We haven't been following trickle down economics, and the US is anything but capitalist... Republicans are pretty stupid but they aren't the only cause of the US's turmoil. Both demand and supply side economics are bullshit as both rely on the government to intervene in one area or another, which is the ultimate cause of recession.

      Corporate profits are at record breaking highs, Wallstreet is doing better than ever before,..
      What historical fiction novel are you writing?
      So the facts are out, trickle-down economics are bullshit
      Hard to believe your claim to "facts" when you can't get your own facts straight.
      "La bellezza del paessa di Galilei!"

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      It's not trickle down economics when the rich are giving half of what they earn to the government. I think we should finally try trickle down economics on a real level. I bet it would work wonders. An economy is fueled by the buying of products. Should we be doing more to stifle the buying of products? Should the rich be taxed 90%? You don't want people to stop trying to get rich. It would kill the system.
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      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Corporate profits are at a high, and top earners are making more than ever, and inequality is at a all time high. Those are all real facts. Trickle down economics doesn't work, and the idea that we need to protect the rich is silly. I don't think we need to tax them 90% but at the same time the richest people in the US pay some of the lowest taxes. Mainly because they don't receive their money from 'income'. There should be a level playing field instead of us giving large breaks and benefits to rich people.

      Of course the entire system is fundamentally flawed, so who knows if we can fix it. Hopefully one day soon we can get rid of the entire thing.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      Corporate profits are at a high, and top earners are making more than ever, and inequality is at a all time high. Those are all real facts. Trickle down economics doesn't work, and the idea that we need to protect the rich is silly. I don't think we need to tax them 90% but at the same time the richest people in the US pay some of the lowest taxes. Mainly because they don't receive their money from 'income'. There should be a level playing field instead of us giving large breaks and benefits to rich people.

      Of course the entire system is fundamentally flawed, so who knows if we can fix it. Hopefully one day soon we can get rid of the entire thing.
      I thought you were really libertarian on this issue. Did that change?

      Rich people who get their money from job income give about half of what they make to the government. I think every tax payer needs a drastic tax cut. The government is spending like a 13 year old girl with her rich father's credit card, and that has to change.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Yeah, using facts means you're a communist. The tax margin is 35% for the wealthiest incomes, not 50%.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      I am libertarian and I would prefer a much smaller government, much less spending and thus much lower taxes for everyone. That said the tax system as it is now isn't fair. Most of the super rich don't work a job so don't have a jobs income instead all their income comes from stocks and stuff like that. So what happens is that the super rich actually pay less percentage of taxes than everyone else. Which isn't fair since the rich also gets the most benefits from the government out of everyone.

      So they shouldn't get the most benefits and pay the least amount of taxes. That isn't really fair. I think giving huge bailouts and special benefits that greatly favor the rich is wrong as well, and if we stopped welfare for the rich then it is okay if they paid the same as everyone else. But you can't get huge benefits over others and pay less.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      I am libertarian and I would prefer a much smaller government, much less spending and thus much lower taxes for everyone. That said the tax system as it is now isn't fair. Most of the super rich don't work a job so don't have a jobs income instead all their income comes from stocks and stuff like that. So what happens is that the super rich actually pay less percentage of taxes than everyone else. Which isn't fair since the rich also gets the most benefits from the government out of everyone.

      So they shouldn't get the most benefits and pay the least amount of taxes. That isn't really fair. I think giving huge bailouts and special benefits that greatly favor the rich is wrong as well, and if we stopped welfare for the rich then it is okay if they paid the same as everyone else. But you can't get huge benefits over others and pay less.
      What benefits do the rich get from the government? Most rich people work, and they give about half of what they make to the government. I consider that robbery. The tax laws for interest income and job income are different, and if somebody can live off interest income and not have to pay income tax, I congratulate that person. I think we should just have a sales tax. With that, everybody would pay taxes, and they would pay at the same percentage of what they spend (on legal things).
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      i personally think that almost everyone in the government are screwed up. i mean, look how in debt america is! and then we have the North Koreas wanting to bomb us, and we respond by preparing bombs of our own instead of trying to PEACEFULLY work out the problem. so you see, the government we have is stupid and resort to violence in most situations. but i guess the government we have is better than, say, a dictatorship or monarchy or something like that.

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      If your main source of income is from working you are probably not one of the super rich and just rich compared to most people. As you get richer you pay more taxes until you get to the point where you stop getting income from work then your tax rate drops off big time. There is no logical reason to say that if a person works they have to share their income with the government but if the person makes profit from investments they pay less.

      Since the super rich get all their income as long term capital gains, they pay like 15% in taxes. How is that fair? You make 50 million a years as capital gains and you pay 15% and if you make 40,000 a year you pay 25%. That is ridiculous.

      Then there is all sort of extra loopholes and stuff made for rich people to pay less in taxes. Plus all the big bailouts are aimed at helping the rich since they prop up bad investments which are largely held in the hands of the rich. All the subsidies and stuff that try to help out businesses and transfer wealth to the owners of those companies, the rich. Pretty much everything aimed at helping out huge corporations and stuff is aimed at increasing the profits of the shareholders.

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      Invested money is money that was earned. I think that any wealth it creates should be left alone because it is growth from money that was already taxed. Even if it is unfair to have such a discrepancy between income tax and investment tax, I am all for low taxes in every area possible. It might not be fair that one innocent guy on the street is being beaten by cops while his innocent friend isn't, but that doesn't mean I want the friend to be beaten too. If there is a form of income that isn't taxed much, that's good.

      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      Yeah, using facts means you're a communist. The tax margin is 35% for the wealthiest incomes, not 50%.
      That is just federal income tax. Most states have state income tax, property tax, sales tax, etc. The rich end up paying about half of what they earn to the government. That's fucked up.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Not when you consider that including all those other taxes, the middle class pays around a third of their income. And I'm not even talking about the wealthy. The wealthy, I'm not concerned with. Conservatives love to act like the Occupy movement, etc, just wants to punish the upper class. That's not the issue, stop attacking strawmen. The issue is that the very wealthiest, largest companies in the United States, such as GE, pay NO TAXES AT ALL. None. Not only that, but the American Tax Payers subsidize their industries. We pay for their operation, they pay themselves all the profit. That is fucked up, sir.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      That isn't true because the money invested is from invested money. If invested money isn't taxed and all your profits is from investments then you would never pay taxes.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      Not when you consider that including all those other taxes, the middle class pays around a third of their income. And I'm not even talking about the wealthy. The wealthy, I'm not concerned with. Conservatives love to act like the Occupy movement, etc, just wants to punish the upper class. That's not the issue, stop attacking strawmen. The issue is that the very wealthiest, largest companies in the United States, such as GE, pay NO TAXES AT ALL. None. Not only that, but the American Tax Payers subsidize their industries. We pay for their operation, they pay themselves all the profit. That is fucked up, sir.
      The middle class pays about a third of their income, and the rich pay about half. What are you saying? I am not making this up. I know a lot of rich people, and I know their complaints. They work their asses off and have half of what they make stripped from them by government thugs. A whole lot of that money goes to con artist bums. Is that fair?

      Stop attacking strawmen? Are you talking to me? I said nothing about Occupy, sir. However, most people who want the rich to be taxed even more are driven by class envy and want to punish people for being successful. Jealousy is the root of a great deal of evil.

      I don't think corporations should be taxed. I don't even think there should be an income tax. Success should be encouraged and rewarded. However, I also don't think the government should ever subsidize corporations. Government sucks. That is my major philosophy here.

      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      That isn't true because the money invested is from invested money. If invested money isn't taxed and all your profits is from investments then you would never pay taxes.
      The money invested is from invested money?

      I'm glad investment tax is so low. Maybe it will end up being nonexistent. Then we can work on getting rid of the income tax.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      The only reason we have idiots in government is because all the smart people were wise enough not to get involved in politics. I KNOW people who would do a better job in office than just about everybody in the current Congress, but they're too busy being doctors and engineers to be concerned with that.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      The money invested is from invested money?
      Yea it is entirely possible to have money invested in stocks that have never been taxed as income. Also if your friend is paying half their money in taxes they are not the super rich. If you are rich, and someone making half a million dollars a year is rich, then you are paying extremely high taxes. However people at higher levels, making multimillions a year, pay far lower rates. The average person making 10 million a year are paying lower rates than someone making 40k a year.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      The middle class pays about a third of their income, and the rich pay about half. What are you saying? I am not making this up. I know a lot of rich people, and I know their complaints. They work their asses off and have half of what they make stripped from them by government thugs. A whole lot of that money goes to con artist bums. Is that fair?

      Stop attacking strawmen? Are you talking to me? I said nothing about Occupy, sir. However, most people who want the rich to be taxed even more are driven by class envy and want to punish people for being successful. Jealousy is the root of a great deal of evil.

      I don't think corporations should be taxed. I don't even think there should be an income tax. Success should be encouraged and rewarded. However, I also don't think the government should ever subsidize corporations. Government sucks. That is my major philosophy here.



      The money invested is from invested money?

      I'm glad investment tax is so low. Maybe it will end up being nonexistent. Then we can work on getting rid of the income tax.
      You're still acting as though I have class envy and want to punish the wealthy that are paying taxes when the target of my attacks are the wealthy which are NOT paying taxes. It's these loop holes the republicans are protecting, while they're also pushing for austerity that is having awful consequences in Europe. Everything about the current republican economic platform is devastating.
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      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      You're still acting as though I have class envy and want to punish the wealthy that are paying taxes when the target of my attacks are the wealthy which are NOT paying taxes. It's these loop holes the republicans are protecting, while they're also pushing for austerity that is having awful consequences in Europe. Everything about the current republican economic platform is devastating.
      I didn't say you are like that. I said it is common. I think the problem with our government is overspending and overtaxing.

      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      Yea it is entirely possible to have money invested in stocks that have never been taxed as income. Also if your friend is paying half their money in taxes they are not the super rich. If you are rich, and someone making half a million dollars a year is rich, then you are paying extremely high taxes. However people at higher levels, making multimillions a year, pay far lower rates. The average person making 10 million a year are paying lower rates than someone making 40k a year.
      It's possible for that to happen to interest income, but I thought you were saying it is a general rule. In the rest of your post, are you referring to job income?
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      I didn't say you are like that. I said it is common. I think the problem with our government is overspending and overtaxing.
      What planet are you living on?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    22. #22
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      What planet are you living on?
      Your mama.
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    23. #23
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      I still have yet to see you address any actual problems I've raised in this thread. You're acting like Sean Hannity or somebody. Do you have anything to say that isn't pathetically fallacious?

      Maybe I should address the question to you since you're acting so similar to the Republican members of congress. Are you delusional or do you really want to destroy the economy?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      There are a lot of ways around taxes, to either avoid them or limit them or put them off for extremely long amounts of time so you can play with the money and make profits off it before taxes. Pretty much all the ways for avoiding taxes can only be used by the extremely rich, and so the extremely rich usually pay very low amount of taxes. Like I said, people making 10+million a year usually pay on average about 15% in taxes.

      If you get the money as a pay check from an employer, then you would owe almost 40% in income tax if you made 10 million dollars. So the super rich on average successfully avoid paying 60% of the taxes they are supposed to pay.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      I still have yet to see you address any actual problems I've raised in this thread. You're acting like Sean Hannity or somebody. Do you have anything to say that isn't pathetically fallacious?

      Maybe I should address the question to you since you're acting so similar to the Republican members of congress. Are you delusional or do you really want to destroy the economy?
      What have I not addressed? You brought up planets of residence, so I went with you on the tangent. Now give me specific examples of what you are having a spaz attack over.

      Your socialist dream would destroy our economy. Why do you want that? Do you really hate rich people that much?

      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      There are a lot of ways around taxes, to either avoid them or limit them or put them off for extremely long amounts of time so you can play with the money and make profits off it before taxes. Pretty much all the ways for avoiding taxes can only be used by the extremely rich, and so the extremely rich usually pay very low amount of taxes. Like I said, people making 10+million a year usually pay on average about 15% in taxes.

      If you get the money as a pay check from an employer, then you would owe almost 40% in income tax if you made 10 million dollars. So the super rich on average successfully avoid paying 60% of the taxes they are supposed to pay.
      That is because, as you have said, we have a system that is very job income oriented. I think we need to change that, but I don't want the rich who live off interest to pay more. I want everybody to be able to pay less. We have a spendaholic government that keeps losing its mind even more.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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