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    Thread: Naval War Games massacre dolphins

    1. #1
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      Naval War Games massacre dolphins

      Navy sonar 'did cause mass dolphin deaths' say scientists who blame war games exercise off Cornish coast for strandings | Mail Online

      The Royal Navy has been blamed for driving dozens of dolphins to an agonising death during anti-submarine war games.

      A four-year investigation by scientists has ruled out every other cause for the UK’s largest stranding of common dolphins in shallows off the coast of Cornwall in 2008.

      At the time, the area was hosting a week of ‘live fire’ war games involving 20 Royal Navy ships, helicopters and submarines – including the nuclear-powered sub HMS Torbay – as well as 11 foreign vessels.

      And scientists now believe trials of anti-submarine warfare techniques, using a range of mid-frequency sonar devices in the water to detect hidden vessels, were the most likely cause of the dolphins’ deaths.

      But despite calls from conservationists for military exercises now to be adapted to safeguard wildlife, the Navy has rejected the investigation’s findings.
      I'm pretty upset about this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      who cares about fish

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    3. #3
      I am become fish pear Abra's Avatar
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      Er, the Navy doesn't kill nearly as many dolphins as the wild-caught fish industry (you may already know this, others may not).

      Quote Originally Posted by http://swfsc.noaa.gov/textblock.aspx?Division=PRD&ParentMenuId=228&id=14 08
      The number of dolphins killed since the fishery began in the late 1950s is estimated to be over 6 million animals, the highest known for any fishery. For comparison, the total number of whales of all species killed during commercial whaling in the 20th century was about 2 million. The bycatch of dolphins in the ETP tuna fishery has now been successfully reduced by more than 99%, but even at the present level of about 1,000 dolphins/year, it remains among the largest documented cetacean bycatch in the world.
      And that's a company that releases dolphins when they can. Others, especially those off the coast of Japan, don't.
      Last edited by Abra; 05-15-2013 at 06:53 PM.
      Abraxas

      Quote Originally Posted by OldSparta
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      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      who cares about fish
      Dolohins are not fish. They are mammals. They are one of the smartest animals on the planet.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Marvo View Post
      who cares about fish
      I think the stance that no good can come of an actual conversation on the internet is rather self-fulfilling.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Abra View Post
      Er, the Navy doesn't kill nearly as many dolphins as the wild-caught fish industry (you may already know this, others may not).



      And that's a company that releases dolphins when they can. Others, especially those off the coast of Japan, don't.
      Poachers gonna poach. Meanwhile these war games seem completely fucking irrelevant in a post-nuclear world. If a company kills dolphins, yeah that sucks. But there's a whole debate about freedom of enterprise to get into. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear as though there's much debate about whether or not the government should be able to kill dolphins in order to play war games that serve no fucking purpose. That's like washing the argument that cops shouldn't shoot random people by claiming that criminals shoot random people all the time.
      Last edited by Original Poster; 05-22-2013 at 09:24 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      Poachers gonna poach. Meanwhile these war games seem completely fucking irrelevant in a post-nuclear world. If a company kills dolphins, yeah that sucks. But there's a whole debate about freedom of enterprise to get into. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear as though there's much debate about whether or not the government should be able to kill dolphins in order to play war games that serve no fucking purpose. That's like washing the argument that cops shouldn't shoot random people by claiming that criminals shoot random people all the time.
      Your idea that this is a post nuclear world is naive, I am afraid. As long as nuclear weapons exist and as long as scientists exist capable of building new ones, this is still very much a nuclear world. In fact, I would argue that the actual threat of a nuke being exploded is now greater than during the Cold War, because then nukes were more controlled, and there was less risk of one of the missing ones from the former Soviet Union for example falling into hands of some fundamentalist group that does not perceive the deterant against exploding one as a good enough reason not to do it. Just because the media and culture no longer focus on nukes and people are not as aware of this threat and not as afraid of it, does not make them less of a threat. It is of course healthier to not be afraid of a nuclear bomb because the chances of dying in a car accident are much higher and the demage caused by polution from cars is now happening and not just some potential, and yet we are not scared of cars.

      Edit: However, if we rephrase this as saying that we live in a post nuclear deterrents world, then that is more true, because those who are most likely nowadays to consider using a nuclear bomb are not ones who will be deterred by the other side having one, too. So in a way it is true that nuclear tests are less meaningful because if the purpose of us having one is no longer for deterant, then what is it?
      Last edited by JoannaB; 05-22-2013 at 12:14 PM.

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      You misunderstand. I meant to say that nuclear warfare makes these kinds of war games irrelevant. We live in a world of mutually assured destruction.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Also the fact that we don't fight anyone unless their technology is at least 50 years behind our own. Which is why despite all the threats, we still have not gone to war with Iran yet.

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      I must say I can't seem to find myself giving any shits either, guess I'm a heartless douchebag. Then again we did have a discussion once about me having some sociopathic tendencies so that's probably why. The only way I can possibly look at it is like this: in the end, how will this matter? If there never is an end, how will this matter? I feel like then it would just matter even less. I don't even think it matters if humans, as a species, continue to evolve and/or exist. How could I possibly care about dolphins?

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      I think dolphins are smarter than the average person. Before you say "Could dolphins harness the power of electricity?" etc, remember that I said average.
      Zoth and dutchraptor like this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by snoop View Post
      I must say I can't seem to find myself giving any shits either, guess I'm a heartless douchebag. Then again we did have a discussion once about me having some sociopathic tendencies so that's probably why. The only way I can possibly look at it is like this: in the end, how will this matter? If there never is an end, how will this matter? I feel like then it would just matter even less. I don't even think it matters if humans, as a species, continue to evolve and/or exist. How could I possibly care about dolphins?
      My post was a joke meant to rile up supposed defenders of nature, so that I could laugh at their neurosis. Dolphins are awesome, and accidentally killing them with a pointless warship demonstration kind of sucks.
      dutchraptor likes this.

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      Before you go too far in praise of dolphins, they are also known to kill their young and commit gang rape of a female dolphin, so they do have issues - not suggesting that this makes it ok to kill them like that, but just another thing to consider when considering dolphins.

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      I wasn't calling them good christians, but they're fucking smart as shit.

      What really gets me about this, though, is that the Navy simply rejected the findings. They can't even be like, "oh sorry my bad," they're straight up denying that they did it.
      JoannaB likes this.

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    15. #15
      I am become fish pear Abra's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      Poachers gonna poach. Meanwhile these war games seem completely fucking irrelevant in a post-nuclear world. If a company kills dolphins, yeah that sucks. But there's a whole debate about freedom of enterprise to get into. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear as though there's much debate about whether or not the government should be able to kill dolphins in order to play war games that serve no fucking purpose. That's like washing the argument that cops shouldn't shoot random people by claiming that criminals shoot random people all the time.
      Yes, and we should care more about the criminals, because the criminals kill more people.


      And fisheries kill more dolphins.
      Abraxas

      Quote Originally Posted by OldSparta
      I murdered someone, there was bloody everywhere. On the walls, on my hands. The air smelled metallic, like iron. My mouth... tasted metallic, like iron. The floor was metallic, probably iron

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      OP wasn't making a statement about which group to trouble over more. He said that the existence of a worse group is not a reason to completely ignore a lesser evil.
      Zoth likes this.

    17. #17
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      I'd be more pissed if someone I considered a friend decided to stab me in the back than if someone I consider a criminal decided to hack me apart with a chainsaw. Yes, we should stop criminals, but when the government does it, and then just denies they did it, there's something wrong with that which should be easier to prevent than criminals.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Except the government has warships, ordinary criminals only have melee weapons, a small gun at best.

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    19. #19
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      Dolphins are communist terrorists.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Maybe the dolphins were sent from Russia with nuclear warheads.

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