I really appreciate your points of views, guys. However, I am attempting to limit my posts to only discrediting his claims, only because if I open up new points, I don't think he'll be able to keep the subject matter limited. I'm afraid to open up things like the fruit thought scenario, and things like that, because I am not arguing any points, other than that he has no proof. I didn't wait for you guys on this one. I went ahead and posted. However, I would greatly appreciate any insight you guys have along the way. I posted here because I was having a real hard time with his pedophilia, necrophilia comparison, but I was finally able to work it out in my head. All in all, though, this guy has just been hilarious. He is offering a real challenge, only because of his LACK of logic and reason. I'm having to basically describe how logic works every step of the way, and it's becoming exhausting. Here is what I ended up posting while I waited for you guys.
"Oh BTW, claiming prejudice, and blaming society for their manifest psychological problems is not a Reasonable alternative, it is a cope out."
Yeah. I can see how this is definitely true, just because you said so. Who needs valid points, right? Why didn't you just say this in the first place? lol
"That argument can be used for any social abhorrent behavior like pedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality. "
This is a good point, tcarey. This one took me a minute. However, claiming prejudice does not automatically mean guilt. IT IS POSSIBLE for a man to hide, physically or metaphorically, due to legitimate prejudice. That fact FORCES us to accept the possibility that you are wrong. As long as we accept that possibility, you cannot make the claims that you have made. In order to prove that your points are not proven, I do not need to prove that all people who claim to be discriminated against are telling the truth. I only need to show the POSSIBILITY that SOME of them are.
In order to prove your evidence, you must rule out any other viable explanations. I've already stated this. (over and over) It's not like the laws of logic are going to change for you. In order to show that you do not have proof, I need only show that other viable explanations exist. I am not required to nail down exactly what causes these things, due to the laws of reason and logic. A theory cannot be proven to be true if other possibilities exist, but it IS possible to disprove a theory based off of the fact that there are other explanations. It IS POSSIBLE that homosexuals become reclusive due to the discrimination that they face. The same thing can happen with any other form of discrimination.
If I said that magnets stick together due to the use of black magic, you would not need to prove the intricate workings of magnetism in order to show that black magic is not necessarily the answer. Even if you can't prove exactly why magnets work, that still does not mean that I can claim black magic as proof. If I provided the evidence that it must be black magic, because black magic is known to make things defy gravity, you would not need to disprove that black magic is known to make things defy gravity, because other explanations exist that don't involve black magic. Does this make sense to you at all? Why am I repeatedly having to explain the basic laws of logic to you? I freely admit that I don't know why homosexuals do what they do. I don't need to prove why they do this, in order to show that you haven't proven why they do this. I can show that your evidence is faulty, based on the lack of evidence itself.
In that case of the rape victim that you provided, the prosecutor will need to prove that the offender raped the victim, and that there are no other possible alternatives. This is dubbed, in laymans terms, as "Innocent until proven guilty". In this case the subject states that he did what he did because the victim dressed provacatively. It has been proven that human beings have the ability to make choices. Therefore his argument does not hold true. In your point, that homosexuals blame society for the fact that they are reclusive, there is nothing that proves that this is not true. Do you see why your logic doesn't work?
I don't know how I can make this any clearer for you.
IT IS POSSIBLE that homosexuals go into hiding, for reasons other than mental disorders.
In the past, black people went into hiding from prejudicial society. Do you think that all of them did this because they had mental disorders?
In the past, Jewish people went into hiding from prejudicial Nazis. Do you think that all of them did this because they had mental disorders?
DO NOT IGNORE THESE QUESTIONS like you have with my others. I am tired of you skirting the issue. Do you think it is possible that people go into hiding for reasons other than mental disorders? I want an answer!
"I and every sane person in society..."
An argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." or "Everybody's doing it, so you should too."
Please provide proof that the cities that have the highest acceptance of homosexuality also have the highest rates of suicide, drug use, and alcoholism amungst homosexuals. Otherwise this "evidence" is getting the boot, just like your "scientific studies" and "testimonials" that you couldn't provide a shread of evidence for.
"Now if this theory of mine is true..." is begging the question. You haven't proven that your theory is true, so why are we exploring what it would be like, so to speak? Your "predictive value" is not used correctly here. Scientists make predictions BEFORE they run their experiments, and even then it is not considered to be proof. Once again I am explaining basic logic to you. You can say:
"Based off of this evidence, if I do A, then B should occur."
You can not say:
"B occurs sometimes, so therefore I have "predicted" it just now, therefore C is DEFINITELY what causes B." That is flawed. It does not work!
To put it another way, you can say:
"Here are the findings to our experiment. What conclusions can we draw from them?"
But you cannot say:
"Here are our conclusions. What experiments can we run to prove them?" Scientists don't do that!
Here's how I can apply your logic and construct a bunch of stupid nonsense, in the exact same way that you just did. Keep in mind that your theory is EXACTLY the same as this one, except I replaced the word "homosexual" with "woman". I'm using not only the same arguments, but even the exact same wording, and exact same spelling/gramatical errors, and the exact same connections of logic. Tell me if this works for you:
My (PRETEND!) theory is that all females have mental conditions. Okay? Now if this theory of mine is true, and being a female is a mental disorder then there would not only be the personal manifestation in the minory's, psyche, such as not spending their time with sexist people, but it would then infect the rest of the culture. This is the nature of a sound theory it has predictive value (That sentence sounded just as ridiculous when you typed it.). If women were the product of stunted personal and emotional development, with them in positions of authority, their need to limit personal angst would come to light. Thus we has "Gender-Sensitivity Training" this is the social manifestation of the despressive mind of the woman put forth on society. It is were the women do PTSD mitigation on the healthy population. They will tell you what you can and can't say so that you don't touch one of the psychological or emotionally unresolved issues that the women have. Since they never dealt with their issues they just placed the burden to change on society. It fits perfectly, and is a validation of the predictive value of the theory. And the justification for doing such thinsgs is what? Let me say it for you "Well because of a prejudice society such a program would be needed"
Now, this is the exact same argument, word for word, as you just used to try to prove that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Do you notice how I didn't actually provide any evidence at all? Do you see why even if it fits, it is not proof? This sounded just as ridiculous when you wrote it, as when I wrote it. It has the exact same evidence as your argument. Even the same wording.
At this point, your burden of proof has become extremely complicated. You can't prove that homosexuality is a mental disorder directly, so you provided characteristics that SOME homosexuals MIGHT possess, are ASSUMING that those characteristics are signs of a mental disorder, and then trying to combat every other possibility. That's not how science works, and because of that, you will never be able to prove your claims. Consider the fact that at this point you are actually trying to prove that people only hide from things due to mental disorders.
I want an answer. Do you think that having a mental disorder is the only possible reason why someone would go into hiding? If so, you will need to defend the assertion that hiding from slavery and genocide is insane. If not, then you admit that it is possible that society has forced these people "into the closet".
Again, GOOD LUCK!"
I will keep you guys posted, until I stop receiving responses. I agree that he will likely never change his mind. He's not allowed. lol God wants him to be prejudice. Again, I really appreciate your insights. I love you, Dreamviews!
|
|
Bookmarks