Thread: The ridiculous Trayvon Martin case

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

How do you know what really happened?

The fact: Trayvon Martin was on his way to his father's firend's house. He was unarmed. He didn't know Zimmerman.

The fact. Zimmerman carried a gun. He devoted for a task force to catch and arrest burglars. He actively track Trayvom. He called 911, alleged Zimmerman as suspicious.

Who was the man of provocation? Who had the motive to kill?

The rest mostly depends on Zimmerman's description. It turns a provocateur into a victim. That's why it's a bad case to encourage people to kill in argument. Because the dead could never have a voice. The killer takes too much advantage.

George Zimmerman’s heroic car crash rescue appears to be a fraud – Updated
By Dog Gone on 07/25/2013

What did occur was that an accident occurred where a car slid on it’s side into a median. People at the scene called 911, which went to the Sanford office of the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office. BEFORE responding to the 911 call, News Ball.com reports that Seminole Sheriff’s Dept. Officer Patrick Rehder, a self-styled friend and supporter of Zimmerman, contacted Zimmerman by cell phone directing him to go to the accident so as to appear to be a hero. News Ball.com also provides a social media screen capture of a curious statement about Rehder taking pleasure when someone gets credit for something they did not do.

Rehder’s name appears on the accident report as the responding officer; social media shows his connection to Zimmerman.

George Zimmerman’s heroic car crash rescue appears to be a fraud – Updated – Penigma

It's very easy to say "the poor boy just had a bag of skittles." But when you're in a situation where you're punched in the face, thrown to the ground, pounded "MMA-style" (as described by a witness), have your head smashed against the concrete, and then the boy with skittles reaches for your gun and says "You're gonna die tonight!", you only think about one thing... saving your life!

This is a tragedy and there is no doubt about it, but it has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure some people will still think I'm a racist for writing the text above.

Holy shit. The media has done a great job spinning this one... as evidenced by the wealth of people who've fallen for this shit. I'm not going to argue whether the shooting was justified, or whether Zimmerman should have stepped out of his vehicle and followed Martin. Obviously poor decisions were made. But check out some of this.

Martin:
Trayvon was a thug. He was on a 10 day suspension from school for drugs [weed] found in his bag.He'd previously been suspended for skipping and vandalism. During one of these encounters a screw driver and jewelery was found in his bag. Although the jewelery was never proven as stolen, you can connect the dots. The skittles and "arizona iced tea" [actually Arizona Watermelon Punch] he bought that night were far from the sweet tooth cravings of a child, but rather 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make a homemade codeine drug [known as "lean" or "slizzurp" on the streets"]. This isn't coincidence. Transcripts from several of his social media accounts show that [as early as summer 2011] he had been aware of the drug, and how to make it, and was very likely addicted to it. He was a known street fighter who wasn't satisfied unless his opponent bled enough, even if he won the fight. His mother kicked him out of the house for fighting, yet still texted him saying she'd pray for him and that he should pray for himself. Imagine how hard it is for a mother, to kick her son out and have to turn to god? He was also interested in, and at some times had access to, one or more guns. He was literally, a self-identified "gangsta".

Zimmerman:
A Hispanic in a multiracial catholic home.

"In early 2011, Zimmerman participated in a citizen forum at the Sanford City Hall, to protest the beating of a black homeless man by the son of a white Sanford police officer. During the meeting, Zimmerman called the behavior of officers on duty "disgusting" and detailed officers napping while on duty and refusing to take on difficult assignments."

"At the time of the shooting, Zimmerman was employed as an insurance underwriter and was in his final semester at Seminole State College for an associate degree in Criminal Justice"

Now, there are some other noteworthy things about Zimmerman. A restraining order against him for alleged domestic abuse. Also "In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged after shoving an "undercover alcohol-control agent" while a friend of Zimmerman's was being arrested for underage drinking."

Overall:

"From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times. Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death had included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting. Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood."

Not the quiet and idyllic multiracial gated community some people imagine eh? Here's some more.

"Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way and he waited for their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burgled. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2."

So it seems that Zimmerman had reason to be suspicious of certain folks in and about properties. It's not like he'd had no action, and just saw a poor black child as an opportunity to pull his gun. He actually did not carry a weapon until he was advised by Seminole County Animal Services to get one after an incident involving a loose pit bull cornering his wife in the community.

All I'm trying to say is, fuck off with all this one sided bullshit. Does all this justify Martin having died at a young age? Fucked if I know. What I do know is that Martin was not a good person. "He wasn't bad! He was a kid, struggling through blah blah blah." Shut up with that. This isn't some world filled to the brim with easy fucking solutions. There are sick, violent, unlawful people out there that get shot. Some get shot by other violent, unlawful people. But enough about cops [teehee]. Seriously though...I am unbelievably saddened with what happened to Zimmerman. The goddamn president got involved with this. Fuck you Obama. Are you a judge? A lawyer? Who the fuck are you? Seriously? Shut the fuck up... this isn't your place. Don't encourage people to make this a race issue. "Trayvon could've been me." Well boo-fuckin-hoo. It doesn't matter who could've been who. This became a goddamn nationwide witch hunt for christ's sake. I can't believe that everyone isn't disgusted at the process of this whole batshit crazy thing, but are instead sickened that some dime a dozen gangsta got shot somewhere. You know what'll really help? Review social programs. Public schools. Mental Health. Let's pretend that Zimmerman was a bad man, and got convicted. Guess what? There are still druggy gang fucks on the streets that'll get shot, or worse, hurt someone else. There are still countless african-american teens from broken homes fucking around with drugs and theft and all that other alpha male BS.

Yes. I'm mad. Yes, I'm probably irrational. But I can not stand how this whole ordeal played out. I'll read over this post again in a bit, once I've cooled down, and see if any apologies are needed.

edit: Basically, America is fucked. Making this shooting into a fucking circus. Casting blame before reviewing evidence. The media is the worst in it. Their precise deception allowed this to become what it is. And the president stepping in, as though this is part of some national issue. Jesus people. Everyone involved should be absolutely ashamed. I want to go and buy zimmerman a beer. I hope that he knows that there are people out there that aren't tricked into casting him as some boogy-man racist. It's absolutely disgusting guys. I'll admit I was a bit harsh above, so I am sorry if I've offended anyone.

Originally Posted by Yakuza

It's very easy to say "the poor boy just had a bag of skittles." But when you're in a situation where you're punched in the face, thrown to the ground, pounded "MMA-style" (as described by a witness), have your head smashed against the concrete, and then the boy with skittles reaches for your gun and says "You're gonna die tonight!", you only think about one thing... saving your life!

This is a tragedy and there is no doubt about it, but it has absolutely nothing to do with racism. Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure some people will still think I'm a racist for writing the text above.

I could not have said that better myself. It never ceases to amaze me just how many people side with Treyvon in this case. I mean, honestly. I would ask anyone here who says that he "murdered" Treyvon...you saying if someone punches you in the face, breaking your nose, sits on top of your chest, and slams the back of your head into the concrete, telling you you're going to DIE tonight, that you won't fear for your life? I think most people who happened to carry a gun in that situation would use it at that point. Because having your skull bashed against the freaking concrete can kill you just as easily as a bullet!

Everyone talks about how Treyvon had every right to be where he was. So did Zimmerman. AND he had a right to carry a weapon, because in the United States of America, it's our constitutional right to own a gun--even if people like Obama try their damnedest to undermine that right.

To say that self-defense laws are an excuse to kill...that just does not compute in my head. I cannot understand that viewpoint. EVERYBODY has a right to protect their life. As a human being, you have a right to live if someone attacks you. And yes, people do kill for no reason without provocation. Another ridiculous statement somewhere in this thread is that nobody attacks without reason. BS! There are plenty of people who've been raped/beaten/tortured by serial killers who would say otherwise. There are plenty more of dead people who may have lived had they had a gun to defend themselves, who would say otherwise as well, IF they were alive to say it.

FACT: Treyvon ruthlessly attacked Zimmerman
FACT: Concrete+back of skull=Likely concussion, possible brain hemorrhage, coma, or death. Maybe all of the above.
FACT: Zimmerman had every right to carry a gun, was part of neighborhood watch, and had every right to question what Treyvon was doing, given the circumstances

To me, there's only one logical verdict: Zimmerman defended himself, fearing he was about to be killed. I'd have shot him too were I in his situation.

~SilverWolf~

It's also interesting to note that the media always shows the picture of a 12-year old Trayvon Martin (or close to that age)... as if there weren't any newer pictures of him.

I can't know 100% what happened because I wasn't there, but the evidence points to the fact that Zimmerman was getting the crap beat out of him, that he feared for his life, and that he defended himself.

Just because someone doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he's not dangerous. He wasn't "unarmed" either. He was armed with aggression, thug-life attitude, nose-breaking fists, and skull-cracking concrete. This case has nothing to do with race, and no... following someone is not a crime, but punching someone and pounding him while he's down definitely is.

It's a tragedy without a doubt, and it would be better for everyone if it didn't happen. I am very sorry for the Martin family who lose their son, and I am also sorry for Zimmerman who will never have a normal life again. As long as he's alive he won't be able to walk down the street normally, enter a cafe, or travel alone... unless he's completely disguised. That sucks.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

"Trayvon could've been me."

That comment pissed me off greatly. No, it couldn't have been him, unless he's someone who likes to participate in street fights, smoke weed, vandalize, call people crackers, and (most likely) steal jewlery.

So no, it couldn't have been him.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

The skittles and "arizona iced tea" [actually Arizona Watermelon Punch] he bought that night were far from the sweet tooth cravings of a child, but rather 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make a homemade codeine drug [known as "lean" or "slizzurp" on the streets"]. This isn't coincidence. Transcripts from several of his social media accounts show that [as early as summer 2011] he had been aware of the drug, and how to make it, and was very likely addicted to it.

But u kno I'm stuntin... I got it all, crack, coke, dope, sizzurp, Robitussin, da blam-blammer wit Santana leave Cam alone b4 this man jamya scrams ya damn cameraphone.

Originally Posted by Yakuza

It's also interesting to note that the media always shows the picture of a 12-year old Trayvon Martin (or close to that age)... as if there weren't any newer pictures of him.

I can't know 100% what happened because I wasn't there, but the evidence points to the fact that Zimmerman was getting the crap beat out of him, that he feared for his life, and that he defended himself.

Just because someone doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he's not dangerous. He wasn't "unarmed" either. He was armed with aggression, thug-life attitude, nose-breaking fists, and skull-cracking concrete. This case has nothing to do with race, and no... following someone is not a crime, but punching someone and pounding him while he's down definitely is.

It's a tragedy without a doubt, and it would be better for everyone if it didn't happen. I am very sorry for the Martin family who lose their son, and I am also sorry for Zimmerman who will never have a normal life again. As long as he's alive he won't be able to walk down the street normally, enter a cafe, or travel alone... unless he's completely disguised. That sucks.


That comment pissed me off greatly. No, it couldn't have been him, unless he's someone who likes to participate in street fights, smoke weed, vandalize, call people crackers, and (most likely) steal jewlery.

So no, it couldn't have been him.

Maybe Obama's letting some of his true personality shine through? :p

Originally Posted by TheSilverWolf

Maybe Obama's letting some of his true personality shine through? :p

Hey, stop being racist dude! You evil Zimmerman supporter!

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Holy shit. The media has done a great job spinning this one... as evidenced by the wealth of people who've fallen for this shit. I'm not going to argue whether the shooting was justified, or whether Zimmerman should have stepped out of his vehicle and followed Martin. Obviously poor decisions were made. But check out some of this.

Martin:
Trayvon was a thug. He was on a 10 day suspension from school for drugs [weed] found in his bag.He'd previously been suspended for skipping and vandalism. During one of these encounters a screw driver and jewelery was found in his bag. Although the jewelery was never proven as stolen, you can connect the dots. The skittles and "arizona iced tea" [actually Arizona Watermelon Punch] he bought that night were far from the sweet tooth cravings of a child, but rather 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make a homemade codeine drug [known as "lean" or "slizzurp" on the streets"]. This isn't coincidence. Transcripts from several of his social media accounts show that [as early as summer 2011] he had been aware of the drug, and how to make it, and was very likely addicted to it. He was a known street fighter who wasn't satisfied unless his opponent bled enough, even if he won the fight. His mother kicked him out of the house for fighting, yet still texted him saying she'd pray for him and that he should pray for himself. Imagine how hard it is for a mother, to kick her son out and have to turn to god? He was also interested in, and at some times had access to, one or more guns. He was literally, a self-identified "gangsta".

Zimmerman:
A Hispanic in a multiracial catholic home. Now, there are some other noteworthy things about Zimmerman. A restraining order against him for alleged domestic abuse. Also "In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged after shoving an "undercover alcohol-control agent" while a friend of Zimmerman's was being arrested for underage drinking."

Overall:

Not the quiet and idyllic multiracial gated community some people imagine eh? Here's some more.


So it seems that Zimmerman had reason to be suspicious of certain folks in and about properties. It's not like he'd had no action, and just saw a poor black child as an opportunity to pull his gun. He actually did not carry a weapon until he was advised by Seminole County Animal Services to get one after an incident involving a loose pit bull cornering his wife in the community.

All I'm trying to say is, fuck off with all this one sided bullshit. Does all this justify Martin having died at a young age? Fucked if I know. What I do know is that Martin was not a good person. "He wasn't bad! He was a kid, struggling through blah blah blah." Shut up with that. This isn't some world filled to the brim with easy fucking solutions. There are sick, violent, unlawful people out there that get shot. Some get shot by other violent, unlawful people. But enough about cops [teehee]. Seriously though...I am unbelievably saddened with what happened to Zimmerman. The goddamn president got involved with this. Fuck you Obama. Are you a judge? A lawyer? Who the fuck are you? Seriously? Shut the fuck up... this isn't your place. Don't encourage people to make this a race issue. "Trayvon could've been me." Well boo-fuckin-hoo. It doesn't matter who could've been who. This became a goddamn nationwide witch hunt for christ's sake. I can't believe that everyone isn't disgusted at the process of this whole batshit crazy thing, but are instead sickened that some dime a dozen gangsta got shot somewhere. You know what'll really help? Review social programs. Public schools. Mental Health. Let's pretend that Zimmerman was a bad man, and got convicted. Guess what? There are still druggy gang fucks on the streets that'll get shot, or worse, hurt someone else. There are still countless african-american teens from broken homes fucking around with drugs and theft and all that other alpha male BS.

Yes. I'm mad. Yes, I'm probably irrational. But I can not stand how this whole ordeal played out. I'll read over this post again in a bit, once I've cooled down, and see if any apologies are needed.

edit: Basically, America is fucked. Making this shooting into a fucking circus. Casting blame before reviewing evidence. The media is the worst in it. Their precise deception allowed this to become what it is. And the president stepping in, as though this is part of some national issue. Jesus people. Everyone involved should be absolutely ashamed. I want to go and buy zimmerman a beer. I hope that he knows that there are people out there that aren't tricked into casting him as some boogy-man racist. It's absolutely disgusting guys. I'll admit I was a bit harsh above, so I am sorry if I've offended anyone.

Zimmerman is an aggressive man. He is a vigilante. That doesn't say anything about "all neighborhood watch" people in general.

Washington Pos: May 28th: In July 2005, he was arrested for“resisting officer with violence.” (1) The neighborhood watch volunteer who wanted to be a cop got into a scuffle with cops who were questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking. The charges were reduced and then waived after he entered an alcohol education program. Then in August 2005, Zimmerman’s former fiance sought a restraining orderagainst him because of domestic violence. Zimmerman sought a restraining order against her in return. Both were granted. Meanwhile, over the course of eight years, Zimmerman made at least 46 calls to the Sanford (Fla.) Police Department reporting suspicious activity involving black males. (2)

(1)Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer - U.S. News
(2) Did Trayvon Shooter Abuse 911? - The Daily Beast

George Zimmerman Found Not Guily — iVillage

You can't convict unless there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and there was not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed unjustifiable homicide. Expecting a guilty verdict in that case was a situation of expecting jury corruption.

Yeah, it's possible that Zimmerman threw the first punch or threatened Martin in a way that was majorly out of line. Considering the fact that he had just called the cops, I really doubt that he did, but it's not impossible. But it was definitely not proven. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Martin:
Trayvon was a thug. He was on a 10 day suspension from school for drugs [weed] found in his bag.He'd previously been suspended for skipping and vandalism. During one of these encounters a screw driver and jewelery was found in his bag. Although the jewelery was never proven as stolen, you can connect the dots. The skittles and "arizona iced tea" [actually Arizona Watermelon Punch] he bought that night were far from the sweet tooth cravings of a child, but rather 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make a homemade codeine drug [known as "lean" or "slizzurp" on the streets"]. This isn't coincidence. Transcripts from several of his social media accounts show that [as early as summer 2011] he had been aware of the drug, and how to make it, and was very likely addicted to it. He was a known street fighter who wasn't satisfied unless his opponent bled enough, even if he won the fight. His mother kicked him out of the house for fighting, yet still texted him saying she'd pray for him and that he should pray for himself. Imagine how hard it is for a mother, to kick her son out and have to turn to god? He was also interested in, and at some times had access to, one or more guns. He was literally, a self-identified "gangsta".

None of this has anything to do with the incident. At all. It's wholeheartedly irrelevant. It's absolutely ridiculous that people keep trying to bring up Trayvon's and Zimmerman's pasts - there's no need for the "good guy" and "bad guy" nonsense. Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon or his posts on Facebook. He simply saw someone walking in his neighborhood and assumed he was up to trouble. He followed him, there was a confrontation, and one of them died (while the other was badly injured). Nothing prior to that is particularly relevant.
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As for the verdict, the jury made the right call. What Zimmerman did was technically legal. But that doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong.

Zimmerman created a volatile situation by stalking him late at night while carrying a gun. Zimmerman should have kept his distance instead of following him - that was his first mistake. Then, when confronted by Trayvon (who undoubtedly was worried something was about to go down when he saw a stranger following him), he should have warned him that he was carrying a weapon and kept his distance.

Trayvon erred by attacking Zimmerman. He likely reacted in an attempt to defend himself from what he perceived to be a threat, and that's perfectly understandable/fine... But he took it too far when he got him to the ground and, instead of getting away and calling the police, he climbed on top and continued beating him.

Both were at fault, but Zimmerman more so than Trayvon imo. While what he did was technically legal, due to Florida's flawed Stand Your Ground Law (self-defense laws are fine, but Florida's needs to be retouched with a "duty to retreat" thingamabob), he did create a volatile situation that could have easily been avoided.
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As for the racial undertones of the case... I don't think Zimmerman was a racist. Even if he was, it doesn't really change anything. But some food for thought:


(Ignore the comments in the beginning about the Trayvon/Zimmerman thing, seems like he doesn't know the full story)

Zimmerman follows Trayvon at night > Trayvon reacts > Trayvon goes to far > Zimmerman shoots and kills Trayvon in self-defense == Acquitted

Husband beats his wife senseless > she tries to run but is unable to > she fires a shot in self-defense (the husband is unharmed) == Found "guilty" within 12 minutes and facing 20 years