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try looking at it from a psychological point of view. you say 'suffer' like you think they're making it up, or it's not real suffering. Read some studies on anorexia.
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that's common.
OK, I'm sorry, void, but I don't understand your example or what you've said about linking narcissism with low self-esteem at all..:hrm:
Warning: Graphic and possibly disturbing description; I'm not writing this to rant, but just to prove a point, or try to anyway...
I have chronic depression, and when my bloodstream's not full of Lexopro, my self-loathing comes to the fore. I stare in a mirror and insult myself to my face. I often beat myself up, literally, bashing my head against the wall, or punching myself with closed fists, as well as holding my breath in hopes of one of these times suffocating myself. I clutch knives like stuffed animals; I've desperately tried to cut myself, but only having access to serated knives, have only ever succeeded in making small red lines in my arms. My inner pain is only then relieved by exhorting outer pain, and the more twisted and tight I feel inside, the more I have to compensate for it on the outside. I've not only wanted to die, but to kill myself -- kill the stupid, moronic, incompetent part of me.
...now isn't that what having low self-esteem's more about?
That is also a form of low self esteem, however, that is caused by a disorder, in your case the chronic depression. In my case, I am manic depressive and can sometimes feel like I am at the very top of the world, be on a manic high, and then suddenly crash very, VERY, hard into a deep disturbing depression where I'd love nothing more than to die.Quote:
Originally posted by Muhjah
OK, I'm sorry, void, but I don't understand your example or what you've said about linking narcissism with low self-esteem at all..:hrm:
Warning: Graphic and possibly disturbing description; I'm not writing this to rant, but just to prove a point, or try to anyway...
I have chronic depression, and when my bloodstream's not full of Lexopro, my self-loathing comes to the fore. I stare in a mirror and insult myself to my face. I often beat myself up, literally, bashing my head against the wall, or punching myself with closed fists, as well as holding my breath in hopes of one of these times suffocating myself. I clutch knives like stuffed animals; I've desperately tried to cut myself, but only having access to serated knives, have only ever succeeded in making small red lines in my arms. My inner pain is only then relieved by exhorting outer pain, and the more twisted and tight I feel inside, the more I have to compensate for it on the outside. I've not only wanted to die, but to kill myself -- kill the stupid, moronic, incompetent part of me.
...now isn't that what having low self-esteem's more about?
Like wow. Thats me...the knifes and the water thing. So what thats low self asteme> explain please?Quote:
Originally posted by Muhjah
OK, I'm sorry, void, but I don't understand your example or what you've said about linking narcissism with low self-esteem at all..:hrm:
Warning: Graphic and possibly disturbing description; I'm not writing this to rant, but just to prove a point, or try to anyway...
I have chronic depression, and when my bloodstream's not full of Lexopro, my self-loathing comes to the fore. I stare in a mirror and insult myself to my face. I often beat myself up, literally, bashing my head against the wall, or punching myself with closed fists, as well as holding my breath in hopes of one of these times suffocating myself. I clutch knives like stuffed animals; I've desperately tried to cut myself, but only having access to serated knives, have only ever succeeded in making small red lines in my arms. My inner pain is only then relieved by exhorting outer pain, and the more twisted and tight I feel inside, the more I have to compensate for it on the outside. I've not only wanted to die, but to kill myself -- kill the stupid, moronic, incompetent part of me.
...now isn't that what having low self-esteem's more about?
Well, having low self-esteem means you don't think very highly of yourself, even to the point of hating yourself -- which is why it makes no sense to say that a narcissist has low self-esteem, because a narcissist would have incredibly high self-esteem; they love themselves. They have very low esteems about everyone else, however.Quote:
Originally posted by TheTruth
Like wow. Thats me...the knifes and the water thing. So what thats low self esteem explain please?
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Well, that makes sense that you're a narcissist, void, as you don't even know what the hell you're talking about, yet you harbor some kind of disdain for these people who have a condition you don't even understand. :angry:
Thank you :)
No problem. :hug:Quote:
Originally posted by TheTruth
Thank you *:)
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It's OK...you didn't know. Everyone's allowed at least one free "d'oh!" :PQuote:
Originally posted by voidofform
oh crap. *i'm sorry.
i'm seeking professional help.
there's nothing wrong with therapy, but be cautious to the perscription drugs they are so ready to hand out to you! i choose not to medicate, I don't like the way the drugs they gave me affected my personality to the point where I didn't feel like the same person anymore.Quote:
Originally posted by voidofform
oh crap. *i'm sorry.
i'm seeking professional help.
I have a question: When does it go from having a bad day, or a bad few weeks, to being really depressed and feeling worthless?
Can it be stopped, if you recognise it, and use the support of good friends?
I know for me, the last few weeks have been a test, on all levels. If i didn't have one person who has supported me from the beginning, i would probably have plunged into a very horrible depression.
I've been what i call 'depressed' before, and i didn't like it. I didn't need pills or anything, but it was a case of i 'never made the effort' with myself.
And now i have someone who i can really talk to about what's going on in my life, and i've learned that's how you can help to avoid sinking into that...i don't want to go there again.
Every time i think i'm on the edge of something i don't like, the place i don't need to be, they seem to be able to come and pull me back...stop me shutting them out.
I guess I've had a bad year. And my friends aren't people who I can talk to about stuff like that. umm...Then the self harm felt right. Now I'm starting to see people differently, in a bad way. I can't think of anything else to put.
I dont know much but maybe low selfestem comes from expecting too much from urself and not getting it?
Sorry to resurrect so many old topics, guys. Just felt like inputting my own experience.
A bad turn of events can make me go into a depression, but oftentimes it's a culmination of things that comes out randomly. My girlfriend cheating on me might cause me to storm around the house smashing my head into walls and punching myself in the face close-fisted for a few days, but at the same time just being bored can have the same effects. Sure it can be stopped, I'm in control when I do it, but it's like I don't want it to stop. Sometimes I feel like pain or actively seeking dangerous things to do are the only things in my life that are real. I'm not terribly concerned about it because I never do irreversible damage to myself.Quote:
I have a question: When does it go from having a bad day, or a bad few weeks, to being really depressed and feeling worthless?
Can it be stopped, if you recognise it, and use the support of good friends?
I know for me, the last few weeks have been a test, on all levels. If i didn't have one person who has supported me from the beginning, i would probably have plunged into a very horrible depression.
I've been what i call 'depressed' before, and i didn't like it. I didn't need pills or anything, but it was a case of i 'never made the effort' with myself.
And now i have someone who i can really talk to about what's going on in my life, and i've learned that's how you can help to avoid sinking into that...i don't want to go there again.
Every time i think i'm on the edge of something i don't like, the place i don't need to be, they seem to be able to come and pull me back...stop me shutting them out.[/b]
I have the exact opposite relationship with friends. When I'm depressed, I resent anyone showing any concern or affection for me. Even when I'm not depressed, when a female friend for instance says something like "I worry about you" or anything to that effect, I kind of sneer and feel an immediate but short repulsion for that person. I hate my parents sometimes because all they do is worry about me, and they don't even know I beat myself up.
Acting in a self-destructive way makes me feel better. It's kind of theraputic (sp?) for me. I intentionally screw myself over with work and school (by not studying even though I have a test coming up). Bashing myself in the head with the biggest book I can find can actually helps ease the pain. I never cut, which is strange but I'm glad I don't. Some kids I know punch walls when they're pissed off, but that's a totally different thing. They do it just because they're mad, and usually immediately regret it afterwards, especially if they break their hand. For me, if I headbutt a wall and I'm not overwhelmed by the pain, I do it again until I am. You see, in those moments when pain is all I can feel or think about, it's like I've escaped from reality. There is no past, present, or future. I don't exist. There is only pain and more pain, and that's a comforting thought. The come-down isn't unpleasant, if I hurt myself bad enough sometimes I feel better when the pain stops, more mellow, less depressed, or maybe more depressed but in a numb or beautiful way. Gosh, I don't make sense :oops:
My question others with similar tendencies: Do you end up in relationships where the other person doesn't care about you? Do you feel a detachment from family, and especially from your past and past self? Do you ever think, for example, that if you ever met yourself from 6 months - 10 years ago you'd beat the shit out of him?
Well this is for all your questions - Yes.
well, I'm glad I'm not the only one :o
lifes a shit hole, they need to deal.
"chronic depression" is more bullshit just like ADD and every other fictitious condition designed for the lazy and those who dont want to work.
That is just flat out scientifically false. Depression does result from neurochemical imbalances. You have no Earthly clue what kinds of nightmares I went through earlier in life because of chemical imbalances. The stuff is very real. You might say, "It's in your head." Well, I agree it IS in the head, therefore it IS. The head is where it matters. I also have ADD, and I know what kind of trouble I had paying attention to things that were not stimulating. It was like absolutely not being able to lift something because it is too heavy. We are not in an age where these things are speculations. They are facts. If you learn about the details of how the brain works, you will understand exactly what would have to happen at given neurochemical levels. If you have a severe serotonin deficiency, you 100% definitely will experience severe depression. That is how the brain works. This is 2005, and we know how these things work.Quote:
Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rakkantekimusouka)</div>A lot of psychologists theorize that narcissism is a defense mechanism for rationalizing high self esteem because, deep down, they are disgusted with themselves. The people who go around acting the most egotistical, especially the ones who go around screwing with innocent people abouthow bad they suck, always seem to me like they are trying to cope with severe insecurity. The prisons are full of the biggest losers on the face of the Earth, yet they are also full of extreme narcissists. I don't think that's a coincidence.Quote:
Well, having low self-esteem means you don't think very highly of yourself, even to the point of hating yourself -- which is why it makes no sense to say that a narcissist has low self-esteem, because a narcissist would have incredibly high self-esteem; they love themselves. They have very low esteems about everyone else, however.
...
[/b]
I know of two examples of people I have known well who further illustrated the principle. One of them was an attractive woman who put on tons of weight and looked less attractive. When she was overweight (I didn't hold it against her, but she was less attractive than before.), she acted snobby as Hell. Later, she lost the weight and started acting non-arroagant again. Another friend of mine was a guy who had been overweight for years, and he had a substantial touch of jackass to his character. He went through a time period where he was not overweight at all, and that happens to be the time period where he smiled a lot, acted very friendly to people, and never acted snobby. When he put the weight back on, he started acting like he had for ages. He squinted his eyes at people in a demeaning way a lot, he scoffed at people's comments, and he belittled people in other ways on a regular basis. That didn't happen when he wasn't overweight. He apparently had a problem with himself for being that way.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is exactly what it says-- a disorder. People who are obsessed with constantly flashing off arrogance clearly have something wrong with them. They are dealing with something that is eating them. If they weren't, they would chill out and enjoy life.
<!--QuoteBegin-YourTheManNowDog
\"chronic depression\" is more bullshit just like ADD and every other fictitious condition designed for the lazy and those who dont want to work.
most people who have depression whine. there is also sketchy evidence any such thing as ADD exists. they are LAZY and want a free ride.
Can we ban him? ^
Issues with Serotonin Uptake are not "sketchy evidence", so I'm afraid I'll have to differ with you there.Quote:
Originally posted by YourTheManNowDog
\"chronic depression\" is more bullshit just like ADD and every other fictitious condition designed for the lazy and those who dont want to work.
There is an argument for "sucking it up and dealing with it" in the same fashion that there is an argument for "sucking it up and dealing with it" when we're talking about a broken leg or terminal cancer... I can appreciate that (as someone that has never taken a day off from work sick in her life). But let's go ahead and acknowledge that at least chronic depression is real and validated (and treatable!) in many instances.