• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 32
    Like Tree15Likes

    Thread: How could you change the world?

    1. #1
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11

      How could you change the world?

      This is not a thread about ideology, this is a thread about tactics.

      The method we are taught as children is to change the system from the inside, elect leaders or become leaders ourselves. This does not appear like a method that serves any good. Either the positions of so called leadership are impotent or the just and honest leaders are filtered out of any realistic chance at being elected.

      To me the battle appears to be taking place in the mind, and it seems to be a battle between reason and propaganda, between partisanship and unity.

      When I look at the people who are most positively affecting the world, the first person I think of is Thich Nhat Hanh. He runs a retreat center in France called Plum Village, referred to by some of my friends that have gone as Buddhist Boot Camp. The ripples of peace and compassion he causes are massive, though subtle and virtually unheard of on the public "stage." Chris Abani said in his TED Talk (which I highly recommend you watch if you haven't) that the world is never changed by grand, messianic gestures but in the simple accumulation of soft, gentle, nearly invisible acts of compassion. I believe Thich Nhat Hanh has a achieved the capacity of transform the world that I dream of achieving in my lifetime, but he failed to perform any heroic action such as ending the Vietnam War during the 3 months he traveled the United States on his teaching visa. In fact he may have been instrumental in causing more disunity by accidentally motivating a reactionary population into stigmatizing the soldiers drafted to fight that worthless war to begin with. This stigma partially led to the fall-out between the Hells Angels and Working Cass and the Student Pacifists. Had these two groups formed a united front the 60s revolution could have been successful in doing more than preventing the US from going to Fascism.

      Getting to the point, what do you believe is a realistic method to heal and improve the world? I believe that we must work on our own minds, removing partisanship for the sake of it and striving always to find the compassionate approach, free of manipulation by the corruption that control of the public stage. Share what you believe.
      ~Dreamer~ likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    2. #2
      Member Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Populated Wall Veteran First Class
      Crashyy's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2012
      LD Count
      13
      Gender
      Posts
      689
      Likes
      1196
      DJ Entries
      1
      Kill myself.. Apperently that would help alot.
      DILD: 9 | MILD: - | DEILD: - | WILD: 2
      OBE: 3 | AP: -


      I can see you sleep through your bedroom window. You're killing yourself with lucid dreaming.

    3. #3
      Member Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Referrer Bronze Populated Wall Tagger First Class 25000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      <s><span class='glow_9ACD32'>DeletePlease</span></s>'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2010
      Posts
      2,685
      Likes
      2883
      DJ Entries
      12
      In the 70's to early 90's, you could just become a rapper and focus on socio-political issues. Damn shame that an entire genre that was dedicate to educating people about the real world has been bastardized and devolved into what it is today. =/

      Nowadays, I guess all you can do is make full use of the internet and the Anonymous movement. Linking people to WikiLeaks, posting things on forums, etc. Pushing for cannabis legalization and encouraging the use of industrial hemp would help a bunch as well.
      tommo and Woodstock like this.

    4. #4
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      The question is meaningless without specifying what it is that you would like to change about the world.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    5. #5
      Wololo Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class 1000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Supernova's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2009
      LD Count
      Gender
      Location
      Spiral out, keep going.
      Posts
      2,909
      Likes
      908
      DJ Entries
      10
      Satyagraha

    6. #6
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      Satyagraha, indeed.

      But OP asks only for realistic methods. Satyagraha requires a level of participation that is likely impossible on a global scale -- even its phenomenal show of peaceful "truth force" under leaders like Gandhi and Martin Luther King influenced relatively few people or events, when considered on a global scale. Unrealistically speaking I think it'd be marvelous, and would happen globally in an instant if everybody on the planet had just a moment of true self-awareness.

      Original Poster: whenever I hear this question, and whenever I ponder currently unrealistic methods for changing, improving, or healing the world (like that self-awareness bit), I have to ask this question:

      Why?

      Who are we to say the world needs changing? In spite of all the crap we see, who are we, really, to judge that all this stuff isn't supposed to be happening? The world has been spinning just fine without our help for four billion years now -- you'd think by now it would be more adept at healing itself than the current plague infesting the uppermost layers of its extremely old and resilient skin? For all we know the world might just need to shake off the infestation every few million years, and we're simply the latest participants in an inevitable process ... a truly crappy process for us indeed, but inevitable.

      That said, I think that society has already begun to heal itself, though we may be decades or centuries from health. Even the most cursive examination of history will show that things are certainly better than they used to be -- we all actually are a lot nicer to each other than we were in centuries past. The trouble is there's just so damn many of us, and communication so efficient, that the bad people just seem to be everywhere. In other words, I think that there are as many bad people as ever, proportionally; it's just that a tiny fraction of 7 billion is still a very large number. And perhaps the bad people are supposed to be there, to maintain some sort of balance. I don't know, do you? So the state of society might actually be quite healthy; it just appears sick to the good few who want to believe, indeed must believe, that everything would be much better if only we all got along.

      Maybe, then, it's not our place to change the world... maybe it's not our world to change. And maybe these millennia of mayhem humanity is enduring are simply the growing pains of a very young race as it pushes ever closer to their next step in evolution. Something to think about.

      That said, I think the only thing we can do as individuals to change the world is maintain self-awareness and be good to the people around us. Satyagraha jumps back into my head, as does the example of Thich Nhat Hanh. If we all become them, the societal world may indeed improve, or rather spiritually change on an evolutionary scale.

      tl;dr: Leave "the world" be, it'll work itself out eventually. Just be as good a person as you can be, keep your own personal world as healthy as you can, set a good example, and let "them" have their mess.

      I'm not sure I'm making sense. I guess I wish OP had asked for unrealistic solutions -- those are much more fun!
      Last edited by Sageous; 08-24-2012 at 03:35 PM.

    7. #7
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      It doesn't need to be realistic from a cynic's perspective. The idea in my mind is that trying to fight war to attain peace, elects good leaders to fill corrupt positions, etc. will never work. Ever. It may be unlikely from our narrow perspective that Satyagraha is possible but it's exactly the type of evolution we must undertake if we want to actually change the world rather than just argue about changing the world.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    8. #8
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      Okay, here are a few unrealistic ideas, in descending order of possibility:

      1. People should be nice to each other. Period.

      2. Voters should pay attention, and vote responsibly rather than lazily or reactively. Information is so readily available that all voters ought to take care to research their local and national candidates before they vote, and not just believe their lies and propaganda. And then they should vote.

      3. Since #2 will never happen, there should be a global law, or, better yet, a global social imperative, that all politicians and world leaders must speak the truth at all times, with no exceptions. If they lie, then they're fired, or, better yet, are forced by their own shame to resign. Thought it's sad to think that the removal of lies would cure much of the world's ills, I think that is the case.

      4. Invent an airborne compound that negates the physical nature of all explosives, from gunpowder to nuclear weapons... and don't tell anyone about the nuclear weapons.

      5. Invent a power source to effectively and totally replace our need for oil.

      6. Create a cabal of expert shared dreamers, each tasked with injecting the word of "right-mindfulness" directly into the dreams of all people, with special focus on the folks from #3 who just won't stop lying, and on those swept up by the need for hate or violence, to possibly get them to understand that there is hope, and that their actions affect others, whether they think that or not.

      7. Eliminate all nations, ethnicity, religions monetary systems, and lawyers. Imagine.

      8. Create a true sense of self-awareness in all 7 billion of us, for one day at least. Once we all understand who we are, what we are, and where we are in the scheme of things, I have a feeling that the world will change instantly.

      9. Discover something bigger than all of us, like ascension to a higher state of being, and share that something with everyone, free of charge, at the same time. Then that next step in evolution can be had by whoever wants it, and the world can be left to those who feel a need to cling to their bloody genetic heritage. And no, I'm not talking about Rapture, that perennial cash-cow for the evangelicals....

      10. People should be nice to each other. Period.

      These suggestions might be more global or even fantastic than you're looking for, OP, and all would require forces far exceeding those of individuals doing good and setting a good example for others; except of course for #'s 1 & 10. Though individual goodness and the paying forward of that goodness are huge, I feel that they simply are not huge enough to change much ... bigger things must happen.

      And, again, I say offer all these suggestions with one caveat: Is it really our place to change anything?
      ~Dreamer~ likes this.

    9. #9
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      It doesn't need to be realistic from a cynic's perspective. The idea in my mind is that trying to fight war to attain peace, elects good leaders to fill corrupt positions, etc. will never work. Ever. It may be unlikely from our narrow perspective that Satyagraha is possible but it's exactly the type of evolution we must undertake if we want to actually change the world rather than just argue about changing the world.
      Again, note the fallacy. We are all expected to undertake to change the world without agreeing about what is to be changed.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    10. #10
      Banned
      Join Date
      May 2007
      LD Count
      Loads
      Gender
      Location
      Digital Forest.
      Posts
      6,864
      Likes
      386
      Idk man the world's always changing.
      Original Poster likes this.

    11. #11
      Banned
      Join Date
      May 2008
      LD Count
      don't know
      Gender
      Posts
      1,602
      Likes
      1146
      DJ Entries
      17
      You could become a smart and convincing politician who makes plans that work. You could do something really cool and inspiring and influence your fans. You could start small projects or something and hope they grow.

      What do you think we should change though? Probably the crap in government that makes it so difficult to change to start out with. Transparency and education as a priority could be the key for that. I don't know too much about economics, but probably that. Conservation of natural places would be a good thing. People should stop having so many children. That's all I can think of for now.

    12. #12
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      Again, note the fallacy. We are all expected to undertake to change the world without agreeing about what is to be changed.
      Dude. Accept the fallacy and throw in what you'd like to change, and how. Even though I specifically asked "Why change?" and got no answer, I was content to push the "world-changers" I've been fantacizing about for decades ... I'll bet you can do the same?

    13. #13
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      Quote Originally Posted by Sornaensis View Post
      Idk man the world's always changing.
      Is it? if you look really closely, you'll notice that it's the same crap over and over again. Technology might change, but the folks wielding it are as flawed as ever. And those flaws remain constant.

    14. #14
      Member
      Join Date
      Feb 2004
      Posts
      5,165
      Likes
      711
      I just wanted to point out one important thing about the idea that honest people can't get elected or run government position. The problem many people have is that they only look at the really big positions, like the president but rarely look at more local positions. Honest and fair people have strong chances of winning the local offices and making bigger differences near where they live. So while it might not be the best option for all people, it is still a valid option than can work for some.

    15. #15
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Quote Originally Posted by Sornaensis View Post
      Idk man the world's always changing.
      That's a complete non-sequitur and doesn't address my point in the least. Thanks for trying though.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    16. #16
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Dude. Accept the fallacy and throw in what you'd like to change, and how. Even though I specifically asked "Why change?" and got no answer, I was content to push the "world-changers" I've been fantacizing about for decades ... I'll bet you can do the same?
      The first thing that I'd like to change is for people to be able to think clearly and not base their world views on fallacies. I'm not sure how to change that. Any ideas?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    17. #17
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      The first thing that I'd like to change is for people to be able to think clearly and not base their world views on fallacies. I'm not sure how to change that. Any ideas?
      That may be a major change, I think, given that (as I sort of noted above), it is almost human nature to base world views on dimly-lit fallacies -- such a stance provides some thin cover from reality's steady, unpleasant rain. Clear thinking can be painful at first. Though ultimately it is well worth the effort, most people are unwilling to get past the pain; hence the fallacies. To answer your question, though, I think #8 of my list above would be an excellent first step, though a good dollop of #'s 7 & 8 might be needed as well...

      Or, rather than concerning yourself with fallacies in a venue like this, you could do numbers 1 & 10 on my list above, and imagine for just the length of time it takes to read this thread that the other eight fallacies/fantasies I listed could happen. Then move on, and in the process let them have their world, clouded as it is with useless faith, baseless hope, and usually dead-wrong optimism. Walk away, confident that at least your vision is clear(ish), and that maybe your time playing their fallacious games cleared up someone else's vision just a little bit.

      Or, perhaps, you could not take it all so seriously, PhilosopherStoned, and play along just for yucks. Sometimes it's fun, after all, and sometimes even ideas founded on fallacies grow into thoughts worth thinking. Sometimes the process of imagining "fallacious" solutions might just reveal the things we, or even the OP, might like to see changed. Or not; but it can still be fun -- so consider lightening up!

      And again, this is all moot anyway, because as I suggested earlier, there's an excellent chance the world needs no changing anyway.

    18. #18
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Hmmmm. Sounds to me like you're offering good advice. On the other hand it seems like 1 and 10 will result from people beginning to think clearly rather than the other way around. That is to say that people being nice to each other is the ends rather than the means.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    19. #19
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      ^^ Hence their positions on the list?

    20. #20
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Thought the list was in order of possibility rather than being a list of sequential steps. At any rate, re-reading my last post, people being nice to each other is both a means and an ends. On the other hand, it's not good to get carried away with anything. Willful stupidity should still be made fun of. Or do you disagree?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    21. #21
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      ^^ The list was sequential, but "Be nice," might actually be the list (perhaps the means and ends at the same time), so bookending it around the rest seemed to make sense.

      No, it isn't good to get carried away with anything; moderation and calm consideration trump wild exuberance every time, wisdom-wise. That said, I'm not sure willful stupidity is possible -- do people really choose to be stupid, or does their stupidity stem from their misguided confidence in malformed but highly attractive ideas? If someone is willfully stupid, then I guess making fun of them would be okay, since they, by the presence of their will, know that they are saying stupid things and would not be harmed or insulted.

    22. #22
      Banned
      Join Date
      May 2007
      LD Count
      Loads
      Gender
      Location
      Digital Forest.
      Posts
      6,864
      Likes
      386
      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      That's a complete non-sequitur and doesn't address my point in the least. Thanks for trying though.
      You're not the OP so I'm wondering why you made this post.

    23. #23
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      I guess I'm stupid. I thought you were responding to me. :blush:
      GavinGill likes this.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    24. #24
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1092
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      That said, I'm not sure willful stupidity is possible -- do people really choose to be stupid, or does their stupidity stem from their misguided confidence in malformed but highly attractive ideas? If someone is willfully stupid, then I guess making fun of them would be okay, since they, by the presence of their will, know that they are saying stupid things and would not be harmed or insulted.
      Willful stupidity occurs when people ignore refutations of their ideas and procede as if they haven't been refuted.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    25. #25
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      40 + Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      Here & Now
      Posts
      5,031
      Likes
      7154
      ^^ I can go with that ... Even blithering idiots can and regularly do choose to ignore the truth after it's been made clear to them. Stupidity can be willful.

    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Replies: 42
      Last Post: 04-06-2014, 02:07 AM
    2. The Change I Want To See In The World
      By ♥Mark in forum Religion/Spirituality
      Replies: 29
      Last Post: 05-19-2010, 09:26 PM
    3. Odd change of Recall, and the most annoying thing in the world
      By JDA in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 07-12-2008, 04:59 PM
    4. What If We Could Use Our Dreams To Change The World?
      By ken shapley in forum Introduction Zone
      Replies: 13
      Last Post: 09-29-2006, 04:04 PM
    5. Change the World
      By Jin in forum Artists' Corner
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 08-04-2004, 09:57 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •