Voters in the US, Don't forget to vote tomorrow Tuesday 11/4/14!

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

Refusing to vote isn't a rejection of the state, rather it further legitimizes the actions of the state by allowing the current system to retain power.

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Please stop posting in that unreadable lime color. Thanks.

Not voting is the most I can do, short of insurrection. And since I don't fancy being arrested or shot, I don't vote.

I guess I should also mention that I do practice civil disobedience in my day-to-day. Basically, I only follow the laws that I consider to be based on moral truths (like laws against murder), or laws where I know I'll get caught, like traffic laws. Although I do speed as much as is practical.

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Originally Posted by cmind

Please stop posting in that unreadable lime Thanks.

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^^ That. Seriously...

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Originally Posted by cmind

Please stop posting in that unreadable lime color. Thanks.

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http://i62.tinypic.com/3345kc2.gif

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Originally Posted by cmind

I guess I should also mention that I do practice civil disobedience in my day-to-day. Basically, I only follow the laws that I consider to be based on moral truths (like laws against murder)

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Fair enough. I used to be of like mind but these days I personally can't justify abstaining from voting. It just doesn't seem at all practical. It can be argued that a counter-vote for a third party is just as shallow, but I'd put it a step above not voting. But then again, I guess it comes down personal philosophies. =/

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ That. Seriously...

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Say it again and I'll eat your first born, suckah.

I thought this was interesting from lobbyist Richard Berman who was secretly recorded giving a presentation to energy executives:

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(He was talking about) how the public doesn't have "the time or the brain to understand initiatives."

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On changing public understanding of policies whether it is a lie or not...

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"That's common knowledge. And that comes from people hearing something enough times from enough different places, people repeating it to each other, that you reach a point where you have solidified your position.
If we can solidify the position on drilling, fracking, etc. We have achieved something the other side cannot overcome because it's very tough to break common knowledge.

It's very tough to break first opinions. You know the guy that gets to make the first opinion, the first impression, has a huge advantage because people don't want to admit they were wrong the first time."

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(from DailyKos and a detailed article in the New York Times)

Now from this thread...

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I make it a habit to not vote Democrat or Republican if I can, as generally one candidate is not much different from another.

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Though there are some similarities, there are many significant differences between these two political parties. One side generally supports women's reproductive rights, while the other generally doesn't. One generally supports tax cuts for the rich and the other generally doesn't. One pushed for medical insurance for the general public and got it while the other side is fighting to overturn it (Obamacare). One side pushes for policies to reduce global warming and the other side is especially beholden to energy companies and plays dumb saying either that there isn't global warning or that they don't know if there is global warming. Though some go further: "Senator James Inhofe (R-OK), author of the book The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future, is most likely going to become chairman of Environment and Public Works Committee." He also said "My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.”
Interesting chart: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0/CO2-Temp.png

My position is that people should keep researching the issues and candidates and voting at least until you are able to make real change some other way.

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Originally Posted by fogelbise

Now from this thread...
Though there are some similarities, there are many significant differences between these two political parties. One side generally supports women's reproductive rights, while the other generally doesn't. One generally supports tax cuts for the rich and the other generally doesn't. One pushed for medical insurance for the general public and got it while the other side is fighting to overturn it (Obamacare). One side pushes for policies to reduce global warming and the other side is especially beholden to energy companies and plays dumb saying either that there isn't global warning or that they don't know if there is global warming. Though some go further: "Senator James Inhofe (R-OK), author of the book The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future, is most likely going to become chairman of Environment and Public Works Committee." He also said "My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.”
Interesting chart: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0/CO2-Temp.png

My position is that people should keep researching the issues and candidates and voting at least until you are able to make real change some other way.

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Democrats and Republicans do a lot of arguing about tax cuts, but where they want tax rates to be aren't that far apart, at least not for the politicians. There aren't too many Republicans in office pushing to make abortion illegal. Both parties support environmental measures but disagree on the extents to which they should be made. Republicans in Congress have proposed medical insurance plans that were not exactly like Obamacare.

Being a Libertarian, watching Republicans and Democrats in office argue about politics is like being an atheist and watching Catholics and Baptists argue about religion. Both major parties love big government. They just disagree on how big it should in the midst of its bigness. Both parties support the war on drugs, foreign military interventionism, extreme social program bureaucracy, government spying, the Patriot Act, the indefinite detention provision of the NDAA, warrantless searches of automobiles, property seizure before trial, DUI checkpoints, police militarization, the prospect of martial law, taxing income, and the Federal Reserve. They don't seem that different to me.

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Originally Posted by fogelbise

Though there are some similarities, there are many significant differences between these two political parties. One side generally supports women's reproductive rights, while the other generally doesn't.

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The republicans don't support women's rights to reproduce?

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Originally Posted by fogelbise

Though there are some similarities, there are many significant differences between these two political parties. One side generally supports women's reproductive rights, while the other generally doesn't. One generally supports tax cuts for the rich and the other generally doesn't. One pushed for medical insurance for the general public and got it while the other side is fighting to overturn it (Obamacare). One side pushes for policies to reduce global warming and the other side is especially beholden to energy companies and plays dumb saying either that there isn't global warning or that they don't know if there is global warming. Though some go further: "Senator James Inhofe (R-OK), author of the book The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future, is most likely going to become chairman of Environment and Public Works Committee." He also said "My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.”
Interesting chart: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0/CO2-Temp.png

My position is that people should keep researching the issues and candidates and voting at least until you are able to make real change some other way.

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One side likes to put in as many fear-based authoritarian laws as possible, while the other side only wants to put in a few. One side likes to raise the taxes on old people's health care who don't have an income in order to give cheaper, bottom tier health care to the youth and fine them for it if they choose not to be insured. One side wants you to have zero personal responsibility for any of your actions, state of affairs, or well being, and be able to blame others for your failure, further driving you to failure in the future because you can't figure out how in the fuck shit keeps going wrong.

I dislike both parties, I see them as both being grossly authoritarian, and honestly it's more like a liberal democrat vs. moderate democrat vote if anything. Republicans are in some cases the lesser of two evils, then again so are democrats. I would much rather go the libertarian route. You can paint the picture however you like, it's pretty easy to find out faults on both sides because they're both pretty fucked up.

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Guess UM already beat me to the punch.

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Originally Posted by cmind

The republicans don't support women's rights to reproduce?

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"Republicans at the state level alone proposed and/or passed 694 provisions to regulate women’s reproductive rights just in the first three months of 2013 (alone). According to a report by The Guttmacher Institute, ”During the first three months of the year, legislators have introduced 694 provisions on these issues..." And it continues...

UM and Snoop, I hear ya...and you have a few points I can agree with. In the meantime I am going to keep voting for the candidates that support most of my views and who I feel are for the most part aiming to look out for the little guys and not big corporations. No political system or political party is perfect. No decision is ever going to please everyone. The first step to open up the process to other parties being viable is to get money out of politics. Perhaps you would consider volunteering time to a campaign with just such an aim if you haven't already.