Romance after you get old and ugly???

How is it possible? How can 2 people still love each other after they get wrinkly? Do they accept the truth (that they themselves and their partner is old and ugly), is it the memories that keep it going? Is it something about the look in the eyes, shared expieriences, the voice, the way you walk and talk, the personality? I don't think physical appearance ever becomes obsolete, a 70 year old guy still gets turned on by a good looking young girl and he is not going to get turned on AS MUCH by an older woman. So there has to be something to fill the hole when physical attraction disappears, right?

Somebody help me, this is quite puzzling to me.

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Originally Posted by Ginsan

Is it something about the look in the eyes, shared expieriences, the voice, the way you walk and talk, the personality?

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I think you've answered your own question here. Successful, long-term relationships aren't based wholly on pretty faces.

haha, Ginsan! :cackle: I always like your threads.

As an aside, I would add, some young people are very ugly too and that doesn't condemn them to virginity. Sexiness is not only in the looks. :wink:

(And old couples are so adorable. They have had sex all their lives with young people. It must be a relief for there to be some change to spice things up :tongue: I volunteer in an old folks home every week and they are adorable. There's this couple. And the man sings to his wife. And she looks at him while he does. I don't see why they wouldn't be romantically attracted to each other. Wrinkles or zits, people make due!)

I don't know man, I still don't really get it. Maybe I have all these delusions about love because I've never had a girlfriend. So maybe it's just me :P

Well, I don't understand any of it myself to be honest, Ginsan. I am 21 and have never had a girlfriend either (by my fault but not by choice, I just wasn't born that way). Sometimes, I think I am asexual. I don't know. We'll see. :P

But truly, I find it fascinating to look at two people who love each other. It's so strange. It comes so naturally to everyone but I've never felt it. Oh well, my mother claims it didn't happen to her until she was 23 so maybe it's genes :P

You seem to be assuming that an old person can't be attractive looking. You used 70 as a number, so lets look at someone in their 70's. Patrick Stewart. He is 74 years old. I bring him up because seriously, I saw him on tv the other day and he doesn't look like he aged over the last 30 year. As for women, I point you to the term MILF, a word dedicated to an entire class of older women who some find very attractive. It is especially relevant, since the carrying the connotation that people find them sexually attractive.

Also, people always have their own tastes. Some would say that fat people are not very attractive, yet there is a lot of fat couples. Fat couples that are attracted to each other and have sex on a regular bases. So you might say you don't find interest in fat people but some do, and even depending on the person 'fat' is a subjective term that can change. You might also not personally think older people are attractive but some do. You need to also keep in mind that other things attract people besides physical looks, such as confidence, having a good sense of humor, having money.

There is of course older people who are attracted more towards younger people, which is why you will some times see older people dating younger ones. However, I don't think you should fool yourself into thinking that is the norm and that older people only ever find them self attracted to younger people. Which if you think about it is kind of odd, because any time there is an older person dating a younger person, that automatically means there is a younger person dating an older person. So obviously if old people can hit it off with young, then young don't find the older ones repulsive since they date.

I don't think I'm asexual, because I'm really horny :P I love watching romance movies and pretending I'm the male actor xD And I love to see my friends being in love. I'm too lazy to take care of myself, groom and go seduce a nice girl, and I don't really care. So I seem to have a "feel" for romance, but I still find it weird to think you can love an old wrinkly person as much as a young lady.

Well love and attraction are complicated things. I do have an appreciation for the woman form more than that of men. For example, if a pretty girl smiles at me, it does affect me. But once, I was with a girl that I admired and I had a lot of fun with and I had been acting flirty and when she went to kiss me, I said I couldn't do it. She said we had to be impulsive. But the truth is that I suddenly did not have any desire to kiss and I wouldn't just go along because I don't want to fake this type of thing. The only thing I can take out of that is that we're all complicated and there is more than just how good looking people are (because I found her attractive) and how nice you find them. I don't know what it is. But I wouldn't worry about old people. The more time I spend with them, the more beautiful I find them (They're 80-100) and I know you won't have trouble loving someone when you and them are old. It's all just skin. Any couch will be sat on, no matter its skin. Something leads us to love, and whatever it is and in whichever way it works, it acts beyond looks so don't worry about it. I'm sure we end up seeing beauty in the things we love.

[Edit] I give you an mental exercise. You have to feel comfortable with it and give yourself to it entirely. Imagine Gollum. Imagine him for a long time, both of you staring into eachothers eyes. Put your hand on his cheek, look at his big blue eyes and his slowly breathing teeth missing mouth, and say "I love you" and mean it. yeah, it wouldn't work long term, but if I do this, I can sort of find the moment beautiful. :P

That thought experiment with Gollum was strange. I didn't like it at all but I still tried it and you're right, there is beauty to be found.

I can't relate to your kissing moment, I never got that far. I never even had a date! I have never even had a proper female friend! I don't have much hope for my future with a girlfriend, I don't even have much hope to have a good friend. It really saddens me but the more I refine my own values and thinking process, the more I dislike other people, but that's for another thread.

So yeah love and attraction are complicated but I STILL wouldn't wish it on myself to get all lovey dovey with some old hag. Maybe if I met a nice girl and 20 years later found out that we're still in love, I probably wouldn't let her go, maybe I would but I can't know for sure. I think I should just accept that certain feelings and intuitions cannot arise without having certain expieriences like love and/or old age.

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Originally Posted by Ginsan

That thought experiment with Gollum was strange. I didn't like it at all but I still tried it and you're right, there is beauty to be found.

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That made me laugh a bunch. I'm happy I gave you this challenge :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Ginsan

I can't relate to your kissing moment, I never got that far. I never even had a date! I have never even had a proper female friend! I don't have much hope for my future with a girlfriend, I don't even have much hope to have a good friend. It really saddens me but the more I refine my own values and thinking process, the more I dislike other people, but that's for another thread.

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I can relate with this. I don't allow myself too think about this too much. I just remind myself that my mother wasn't interested to get into a relationship until she met my dad when she was 23. And my dad also didn't start dating until about 20. And none of it made him feel happy until he met my mom at the age of 27. And I know they are honest about these things, they say these things alone so there is no pressure to say good things while the other is there and they have told me very personal things they would lie about first before lying about this. So I just think it's genes and it will only take more time for me to become open to a relationship and fall in love. Maybe your parents aren't like that, but again, my mother's family is the opposite. They were all in relationships very early and in many relationships. So even if your family isn't like that, you might be. And it's just normal. It's just going to take us more time. :)

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Originally Posted by Ginsan

So yeah love and attraction are complicated but I STILL wouldn't wish it on myself to get all lovey dovey with some old hag. Maybe if I met a nice girl and 20 years later found out that we're still in love, I probably wouldn't let her go, maybe I would but I can't know for sure. I think I should just accept that certain feelings and intuitions cannot arise without having certain experiences like love and/or old age.

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Yeah, that's normal. I guess it's like when we're babies/children and sex seems gross to everyone and then it becomes appealing. It's not something we have to worry about now. But it's definitely interesting.

... my niggle, are you for real?

My bf seems to think we'll still be having sex even when we're 90. I admit, it seems weird. I saw Hemlock Grove, and yeah, weird.

But love, I guess it should transcend physicality and all that jazz. I'm aware how corny that sounds, I'm also aware that I just said "but love." :chuckle:

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Originally Posted by GavinGill

... my niggle, are you for real?

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Rofl.. Good to see I'm not the only one who cannot believe this is really a question..

OP, after you love someone for decades, you form an emotional bond that is very difficult to be broken.. It doesn't take someone who's been in long term relationships to see that, I thought it's an obvious answer for everyone.

This is the legendary share dreamer at his last dream conference (he died 6 months later). I love him and I recon everyone who share dreamed with him do too, wrinkles and all.

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Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/...6164192323.jpg

♥♥♥

He is the late Dr Robert Van De Castle. See the link at the bottom of my signature.

So because it's common sense I should just accept it? No way! In my opinion Occi gave the most sensible answer: we don't quite get it, but perhaps we'll understand someday. And I don't get excited by the picture, I'm sure they're feeling butterflies just as much as any young grasshoppers, but when I look at the picture my face just gets sour :P

EDIT: Ophelia, when you say "well, cuz love transcends all", sure, nice thing to say. But it only makes it more complicated. At least for me. "Wow look at this beautiful bird, I get chills all over my body just seeing it fly. It's fascinating and I just can't figure out how this is possible" "Well, that's because God made it that way, he's an allmighty allknowing being" "What? What the hell is God? How does THAT work?" You see what I mean? :P

I agree with a lot of the points made in here. Mainly, the chemistry involved in a strong romantic bond doesn't tend to disappear just because of aging. You fall in love with a lot more than a person's looks. Also, a lot of old people look good.

With that said, I want to add an extra thought. Who says you have to leave the lights on? Have you ever had sex in the dark? Try it. It can be pretty damn good.

That's a good one Universal :P

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

Imagine Gollum. Imagine him for a long time, both of you staring into eachothers eyes. Put your hand on his cheek, look at his big blue eyes and his slowly breathing teeth missing mouth, and say "I love you" and mean it. yeah, it wouldn't work long term, but if I do this, I can sort of find the moment beautiful. :P

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I can just see a future TOTM:

Find Gollum and french kiss him, bonus points if you fall into the ancient elf swamp with him!

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Originally Posted by cooleymd

I can just see a future TOTM:

Find Gollum and french kiss him, bonus points if you fall into the ancient elf swamp with him!

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I am suggesting it this instant!

I changed my mind. Now I feel like there's nothing with it anymore. This sudden change might seem crazy to many people, it even does to me, but I think it's very healthy. It's one of the things you get when you make some effort to remain honest and keep an open mind. Thanks for helping me out :P

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Originally Posted by Ginsan

we don't quite get it, but perhaps we'll understand someday.

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It's pretty straight forward, man.

> You see someone who sparks your interest for any number of reasons (looks, personality, odd quirks, etc.)
> You form a relationship building on that base attraction
> You continue to cultivate that relationship as you learn more about your partner
> You develop a deeper appreciation of that person as a whole, instead of just focusing on any one particular quality (looks, personality, odd quirks, etc.)
> You honor that partnership and continue to grow as a unit until either the relationship fizzles out or someone passes away

"Love" isn't a fleeting emotion, it's a degree of intimacy that takes a great deal of time and effort to forge. Anything short of that is just an infatuation based on trivial things and, as such, can easily be cut down. You don't "fall in love," you work towards it. There's nothing complicated about it.

As I've gotten older my standards have consistently been going down, I figure when I'm actually old I probably won't give a fuck anymore and stop caring about physical appearance altogether, at least in regards to my partner.

I do seem to notice people keep talking about cultivating relationships but as much as that's important, I don't think it's relevant in this discussion. You don't need to have cultivated a lifelong relationship with someone to still love them when you're old. Old-looking old people fall in love start relationships too. They didn't need to go through life together to have some sort of an intimacy that can transcend their new hideousness. Yes, intimacy and other factors than physical attraction will be important, but they don't need to happen before the people turn old.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

You don't need to have cultivated a lifelong relationship with someone to still love them when your old.

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Of course not.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

Old-looking old people fall in love too.

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Again, you don't "fall in love" - it's not a hole that one can just step into.

After initial attraction, it's just a "crush" or infatuation, and from there you develop a genuine fondness for the other person. But love goes further than that, it's a higher degree of intimacy that can't be developed overnight, you have to dedicate a sufficient amount of time and effort to build that kind of bond. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to take a lifetime, it may only take as few as three years - it's entirely relative to the quality of time you invest on balance with the quality of experiences you share with your partner.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

They didn't need to go through life together to have some sort of intimacy

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"Some sort of intimacy" can be developed during the first 5 minutes of a conversation. Although it's often confused with love, "some sort of intimacy" is just an infatuation.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

that can transcend their new hideousness.

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Beauty is subjective, and one's conception of it can easily be altered or even entirely overwritten. The older you are, the more likely you are to realize that and as such, are less likely to have any qualms with silly things like wrinkles. A genuine fondness for your partner as a whole will outweigh any isolated imperfection. The closer the two of you are, the more likely it is that you'll be indifferent to signs of aging, and you'll find beauty in that person's entirety.

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

Yes, intimacy and other factors than physical attraction will be important, but they don't need to happen before the people turn old.

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Of course not.