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Is hunting right?
People can say that it is a sport but in my opinion a sport is when both sides have an equal chance of winning. What's equal when you have a man with a gun against a rabbit for example?
I think that the only way hunting should be allowed is for food and not fun.
What are your views on hunting?
i feel the same way you do. however, i can see a little bit of justification in big game hunting, just so long as the animals aren't on the endangered species list.
with big game hunting, it seems to me like there would be more of a rush, because it is much more dangerous. the animals may not have an equal chance, but they do have a much better chance than with, as you said, a man vs. a rabbit.
I don't think hunting is wrong as long as the hunter is actually going to use the meat for food. Some people hunt just to get to shoot a gun and hang a pair of antlers on their wall.
And I don't think it's fair to bait the animal with all sorts of things like bait piles, decoys, scents, etc to draw them to where you sit on your ass next to a tree then shoot it. It's like cheating.
Errrrr... I don't believe in objective concepts of right and wrong. But, from a practical standpoint: commercial meat-production involvessome things which are a lot more cruel than most hunting expeditions. Plus, in commercial meat production, the animals don't stand a chance. So, as far as I'm concerned, the "fairness" of hunting, and the opportunity of the hunted animals to escape, aren't an issue, nor are baiting and snares.
However, hunting is kind of pointless unless you're actually going to eat the thing you kill, or unless it's a pest which needs to be eradicated... like rabbits in NZ, which are a PEST.
Or fox hunting in britain. Which is totally cruel and pointless, as the majority of the time, the products made out of the fox are just a by-product of the hunt, and not a motivation for it.
So, I don't have anything against hunting, even where the animals don't have a chance, and where the hunter "cheats". The "fairness", given what happens in commercial meat production, is a non-issue for me.
As long as the primary purpose of hunting is food-gathering, I have no problem with it.
As long as you eat it, I don't think it's wrong.
Hunting for pleasue is unquestionably wrong and only testifies of shallowness, cruelty and intelectual underdevelopement of hunters.
For this kind of passion take example of some anglers who catch a fish, measure its size and weight, take a picture and then throw it back into the water safe and sound. That's it. No harm done.
Is hunting Right?
Only if you're hungry and you're going to Eat what you kill. Otherwise it's....such senseless waste of beautyfull life. If some african Tribe-men have had a very bad harvest and are very hungry as a result, off course there'd be nothing wrong about them going to hunt animals for the flesh. So in case of survival: It's not wrong, in fact if you love nature you should respect how it works. And a man killing a deer to eat it is no ''more wrong'' than a Jaguar killing an Antilope to eat it. They're both hungry and Meat is nurishment. You just have to kill it before you can eat it.
Hunting as a sport? Is a little bit wierd if you ask me. Shooting down a non-suspecting deer, to cut off it's head as a Trophy? As if it was so heroic of you to have killed that beast. It wasn't like it stood any chance. Perhaps if you killed the beast and tore of it's head with your bare-hands it's head might be a trophy of your Arms' Strength.
But still if you're not going to eat it, but just be proud of how invinsible you are with your Rifle it's a shamefull waste of life.
Hunting ... I can see that it's fun for the people who do it... but driving like maniac is also fun for me - but I'll get put in jail for it. I think the same circumstances of legalty and illegalty should exist when it comes to weapons - because that's what is the real danger in the end ... too many people out there that shouldn't have weapons - well nobody should have a weapon by law .. doesn't matter if they use them to go hunting or for their own protection. We can't smoke a joe in our house, but we can shoot people that step in our front-yard ... sick. I really don't see the logic of making the possession of weapons legal, the authority who second that must have had hunter's among them, or people who can't sleep at night.
.. and it's really not that those hunters wouldn't have anything to eat if they wouldn't go hunting .. they go and kill, just for their plain fun, other living beings .. how arrogant is that?
As far as I'm concerned hunting is ok as long as it doesn't wipe out an entire species and isn't totally inhumane (i.e. fox hunting). Hunting as a sport is a tradition that would be a shame to outlaw. I am a regular airgun hunter, and I shoot only pests. I am in fact helping to keep rats and squirrels from ruining our lives. I just found this in an article on www.doyourownpestcontrol.com:
"Squirrels communicate through ultrasonic clicks and sounds. The word will soon be out that your home is not a safe environment to live in and your home will be "Off Limits" and that they have been "Squirrel Evicted." With your house free of squirrels you have lessened the chance of a house fire. Home inspectors estimate that 20% of house fires in the United States are caused by squirrels chewing on electrical wires."
As for rats, I'm sure we are all aware that rats can carry many different diseases. You can see more information here. I'm sure the last thing we all need is our houses infested with any animal that carrys any of the diseases mentioned there.
Grey squirrels and magpies both have an undesirable effect on the population of most species of small bird by eating the eggs. This wouldn't usually be a problem, some people like to think that this is all part of nature's "cycle" when the fact is magpies and grey squirrels reproduce a lot more than most other animals and people like me help to keep their population under control and help other, more rare birds to keep a "healthy" number. Magpies and grey squirrels also like to drop their scraps of meat and other food all over the place. This encourages rats. The grey squirrel is the reason for the almost complete wipe-out of the red squirrels in the UK. They bring no benefit to the habitat in which they choose live, they feed on a great variety of things, such as nuts, seeds, fungi, fruits, and the cambium layer of tree bark, as well as eggs and chicks of many birds.
I help local farmers by keeping crow numbers down and protecting their crops.
Jays are technically "pests", but I leave them well alone. They are a member of the crow family, but they are responsible for more than 40% of new oak trees in the UK. They are considered pests because of their apitite for other birds eggs as a special treat when there are no acorns to go at. They are however relatively rare, which is why I have never killed one in my life - proof that I'm not only in it for the sport, I do care about things other than my own enjoyment of the sport itself. Pest control is really my first priority, then it's down to having fun.
Woodpigeons are a major damage to farmers crops, far worse than the crows. Hence the sport, clay pigeon shooting being invented, rather than little clay disk shooting!
Urban pigeons cause disease and encourage rats.
Rabbits damage trees and crops.
Animals are cared for by the law AND air rifle hunters such as myself. Recent animals to be taken from the pest list are the sparrow and the starlings. Pest species' numbers are closely monitered, and as an air rifle hunter I respect the rules of pest shooting, and I have great respect for nature and the enivironment.
Sorry for the extra long post, but this is a subject which I feel very strongly about. Hunting is good if it doesn't risk damaging the environment and natures cycle. It is a great traditional sport, and in my opinion it would be terrible to outlaw even if it is only recreational. We shouldn't just decide that it is "wrong" and put an end to it just for the hell of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNTVmUnfd3g
I dunno about you, but I was rooting for the lion. :chuckle:
I've got mixed feelings about hunting. I'm not too big on hunting animals with guns from afar (especially when you're in a group of like 5 people with High Caliber Rifles, shooting at a lone lion that's cornered "in the wild" by a man-made fence.) A big part of me thinks that if you're going to hunt something, you should stand the risk of being killed, yourself.
For that reason, I do respect the way the hunter in the video stood his ground as the lion charged.
On the other hand, as an omnivore, most of what I eat has been killed for the sole purpose of feeding people like me. So yeah, if you're going to eat it, I guess it makes it much less barbaric. We haven't evolved, as a species, into strict vegitarians, so one has to accept the concept of using adapted tactics to sustain one's own life, at the expense of other species. I've gone hunting, as a kid, and enjoyed it, and always ate what we killed, and I'll probably do it again, someday. But a part of me will always have a distaste for taking down an animal that had absolutely no chance against me.
"Just because people like hamburgers doesn't mean they want to meet the cow." ~ Steve Buschemi in The Island.
But hunting for trophies is just not something that I'm cool with, really.
Ive been hunting all my life and really enjoy it. I have no moral objections to legally and ethicly hunting for food or trophey. States require you to have a blue card and pass a hunter safey corse so saftey is not a problem. States also give a limited number of licences so the 'extinction' of a sepcies is not a concern either. Humans have been hunting sense the dawn of man. Wild animals do have a chance. Hunting to me seems far less cruel than raising animals to be killled.
humans have been hunting since the dawn of man out of necessity. when humans were first around there were obviously no food stores for them to go out and buy some food. they had to hunt for it, and despite what you may think, they used the entire animal. everything, so nothing went to waste.
depending on which animals your hunting, some do have a chance. on the other hand, when your hunting deer, and your just sitting there with "bait" with a scoped gun aiming at their head, they don't really have a chance. you could say: "oh! they always could run away or not be so dumb." thats like blaming a fish being caught on its stupidity to bite a hook. bait is camolauged to looked like the real deal and the animal's instincts tell them it alright. so its not really fair.
true the conditions of most of meat processing plants for animals are cruel. horribly cruel, but at least the animals are being used for food and, hopefully, are going to waste. i don't know if you hunt for food or just for the sake of killing animals, but i think the later one is wrong. pointless killing for your own amusement.
also, just because you've been doing something your entire life doesn't make it right or justified. just because people have been doing something for years, again, doesn't make it right or justified.
I love deer meat, and the only way to get in the U.S. is from a hunter. However, it is not in me to kill a deer myself. The same goes for rabbits, ducks, and other animals that people strangely enjoy killing. I love to look at those animals, and I don't come even close to relating to wanting to kill one. If I saw one dying, I would try to save it.
There is something I don't understand. Maybe there is a good answer, but I don't know what it is. How can somebody kill a deer and not feel the least bit bad about it while caring greatly about humans? I understand killing roaches and mosquitoes because those animals have such simple minds that their losses don't really matter. But deer have complex minds and complex emotions. They enjoy their lives, and they love their young. So it seems that if a person has enough of a conscience to feel overwhelming remorse over killing a person, he would have at least some remorse over killing a deer. I don't get it.
I will always be a meat eater, so I am not against killing animals. I just can't do it myself. I have known a lot of people who seemed like great people, a few of whom I know for a fact are great people, who hunt. I just don't understand how they can be so good to humans and feel absolutely nothing for deer and other animals. I have had pet rabbits and birds, and I went through grieving periods when they died. So killing rabbits and birds for fun is something I will never get.
my dad and both older brothers all hunt. i was the only one who never got my license (though i used to accompany my old man sometimes as a child).
it was always to stock the freezer.
hunting certainly seems better than the predominant western meat production techniques. the animal is allowed to live a normal life, instead of languishing in confined spaces. though sometimes a deer or moose can stagger over a mile before they bleed to death, the pain involved in their death seems lesser than the torture of an entire lifetime within a factory farm for, say, a cow.
my dad sometimes bowhunts, which is much more fair, as one must get within 50 yards or so of the animal for a clean kill. not the three hundred yard buffer which a 30.06 allows.
personally, i could only kill an animal for urgent food requirements...
Well as an air rifle hunter, my biggest targets (which I think comes into the life enjoying, loving their young type of animal) are rabbits. For me, I never felt the slightest bit bad about it. I think the whole guilt thing is exagerated on tv and in movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal
To be completely honest, I enjoy hunting rabbits the most. They are the most challenging because they are extremely cautious. Also, you have a very small target despite their size. You have to hit a rabbit roughly a centimeter behind the eye and a centimetre below the ears to kill one with an airgun. Otherwise is's just completely inhumane as it can take days for them to die. Whenever I kill a rabbit, I get a great sense of achievement.
The first time I killed a rabbit, I felt happy. I was glad for myself as it prooved that my shooting was up to scratch. There was absolutely no guilt involved. I see it as a sport, just like any other. The only difference is that an animal dies. To be honest it really doesn't matter to me. The way I justify it is that every rabbit I kill, the more crops are saved and I am helping someone else.
The thing is, some animal is minding it's own business then the neck thing, it has just had a chunk of it blown off.
If the animal is killed for food, then ok but if it's just shot for fun, then it's sort of cruel.
If it's a equal chance of the animal killing you, as it is as you killing it, then you can call it a sport.
You kill it, you eat it.
What I don't yet understand is how whatever it is that would, I assume, give you horrible guilt over killing an innocent person does not kick in on some level and make you feel at least kind of bad about killing a rabbit. Why does killing a rabbit not make you feel bad at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by badassbob
I don't hunt. I have many relatives who do. They scare the heck out of me. They act all normal until they talk about hunting. Then a strange twinkle in their eyes, something wicked seems to surface when they talk about making the kill. Almost like someone having an orgasm. Scary stuff.
Most of my hunting relatives abuse their animals as well. Don’t know if it’s related but the same twinkle appears in their eyes when they kick the dog.
Lets just say I would not speak ill in front of them if you catch me drift.
In not trying the generalize hunters based on my relatives. I’m sure there are good hunters out there.
Once my mother was impressed about how a particular uncle really knew dogs (yah, one of the dog kicker). I told her the only thing he knew about animals was how to kill them and make them scared of punishment and that I would never lend him my dog to learn tricks (Like she implied). Arrgh I get the chills just thinking what he would do to my well behaved chitsu.
I dont hunt like that. In fact I think it's illegal. I haven't accually killed a deer in serveral years. The animal has far more than just a chance. Hunting is more than just killing a deer. Its a really fun experiance.Quote:
depending on which animals your hunting, some do have a chance. on the other hand, when your hunting deer, and your just sitting there with "bait" with a scoped gun aiming at their head, they don't really have a chance. you could say: "oh! they always could run away or not be so dumb." thats like blaming a fish being caught on its stupidity to bite a hook. bait is camolauged to looked like the real deal and the animal's instincts tell them it alright. so its not really fair.[/b]
Exactly. I started hunting two years ago, and I have yet to kill anything. It's not as easy as people make it out to be. Where we live, we're lucky if we even see a deer because right now, Game Management is more concerned about the trees.Quote:
Originally Posted by 27
What I don't think is fair, is people paying to hunt. They go to some farm, shell out like $50, and they're guaranteed to get a deer. The animals have no chance, they're in some dang enclosure.
As long as people are going to eat what they kill, I'm okay. It's a fact of nature, you have to kill to eat, eat to survive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeAvO
Then you would appose varmint hunting?
Shooting a pest that eats your garden for example. A crow, ground hog etc.
In the animal kingdom the food chain is a part of nature. We are atop of that chain. Our higher brain functions give us an obvious advantage over most animals.
But we are now smart enough to raise bulk food. Keep an animal in confined unnatural conditions, pump them up with antibiotics and steroids to meet OUR needs of an over populated society only then to turn around and question the morality of hunting.
Most hunter's respect for animals is more deeply rooted than most people believe.
I honestly don't know. I understand why some people would feel guilty, but I just don't. To me it's just an animal. It doesn't seem to matter wether it becomes road kill, gets eaten by a fox, shot by me, or dies of old age. In the end it's going to die eventually, and it's not as though they can appreciate life in the same way humans do - it's just animal instincts. Eat, sleep, drink, look after their young, go find food, then sleep again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal
It's not like there aren't people who don't feel guilty about killing humans either is it? I know plenty of people in the army who if anything are proud of their "kill count" in Iraq. And as I'll be joining the Royal Engineers as a combat engineer in a few months time, I may end up being one of them - although I doubt I would ever be proud of killing someone, but I can't see myself upset about killing someone who I don't know who was just about to kill me.
Humans are technically animals too. And we share the same basic instincts. Eat, sleep, drink, produce young, look after them, rinse, repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by badassbob
I agree, but we have evolved to be able to appreciate and not just take everything for granted like an animal does. An animal is mostly basic instincts - they have a certain amount of personality and develop attatchments to other animals, but not in the way that a human does. This is the reason that I don't feel guilty for killing them, they aren't as capable of understanding about life and death, and they can't appreciate what they have and therfore, killing an animal isn't really that much of a big deal to me. An animal only protects itself because it's instincts tell it to. Not because it doesn't want to die.Quote:
Originally Posted by QwinsepiaSquared