Proper Grammar/spelling

I'm not complaining about anything in particular, but in today's English-speaking world, is it too much to ask that people use proper grammar? I know that not all/much of it makes sense, but it just seems to me that it is blatantly disregarded. People don't know where to put commas, apostraphes, dashes, periods, etc. We interchange "what/which," "there/their," and so forth.

Especially with the advent of the internet and the host of chatting and forum applications available, I just feel that people don't make much of an effort to type/write properly.

So I pose a question: why do you type the way that you do?

I agree and understand what you're talking about. English is quite the mutt language, if you understand it's linguistic roots, and certain rules of grammar may seem silly because of this, but that is no reason to blatantly disregard it. For the amazingly powerful tool it is, it shocks me how English (and language in general) is taken for granted so often. I believe that language--not art--is the most powerful means of expression we humans have available. It is also the most powerful tool we have available; nations of people have been controlled through the shrewd use of language.

People become defensive when others point out grammar and spelling mistakes, calling the reviewer a "Grammar Nazi" or the like, but I don't think that's necessary. These people believe that grammar and spelling are ways to keep expression "locked up", but rather, it is quite the opposite. A mastery of langauge and grammar allows expression only limited by the extent of the language.

And to what you were saying, I do think that the internet has made people lazy in terms of writing correctness, but I believe this will change as the internet evolves and sinks into our lives to an even greater extent than currently.

Probably because many people think the message being conveyed is more important than the strict adherence to grammatical format. Others pride themselves in having a respectable fluency in that same format and are more apt to try to "correct" someone that has less regard for it. Niether view is wrong, in my opinion.
A good analogy would be to compare a meticulously detailed acrylic artist to, say, a watercolor artist. Sure, the picture, overall, may be considered more "pretty" or even "more skillful" if it's done with a strict adherence to detail, but is it absolutely necessary to convey the theme? Not at all.
There are many reasons though why a person may not have the greatest grammar. Many people just plain didn't pay too much attention to it in grade school. It's unfortunate, I know, but it's a fact of life. Does that mean those people should refrain from voicing their opinions because of inability to represent the English language, to its utmost? Not at all. Many of those same people come to realize, later in life, that they should have paid more attention. They would honestly like to be able to write more articulately, though they may find it's a little bothersome to either sign up for grammar class at this late stage or even look up every other word/grammatical rule when doing something like replying to a message board because, most likely, they figure people will understand what they're talking about, anyway.

[Edit:
Oh, but to answer your questions directly: I don't know why I write the way I write. I've just adapted this way of writing because I've always been a good reader and I got into writing short stories and involved in paragraph RP for a while, so that's where most of it comes from.]

Edit Holy shit. HOLY SHIT. I just typed my longest message EVER and my internet bugged out. Damn you, hotel internet! DAMN YOU!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.

Message summarized:
I think it looks pretty retarded if people "typ liek dis", and I type the way I do because I don't like to look/be retarded. :P Also, I think it just looks better and makes my posts way more readable.

Oh simple... when I chat with friends or in chat rooms I care not how anyone or how I type. For one typinf short words and words in improper ways can be comical and it also can show how a person is feeling. But when it comes to doing work i know where the boundries are set. It depends on the situiation. I dont want to type all prime and proper with friends or in chatrooms usually... heh

I credit Roleplaying. I started RPing at about 11, about the time I first attained the internet, and everyone, for the most part, typed correctly. Well, I figured this was the "In" thing and was also crucial to being fully understood. After all, my posts got to being four to six paragraphs long, and it's evil to have to read multiple paragraphs with terrible grammar.

Although, I have a certain habit of "captializing" the first letter of some words in the middle of a sentence, I don't know why.

( Example: Before I edited this I had, "...my posts got to being four to six Paragraphs long..." )

I think if you spend enough time in chat rooms or on forums you just get lazy. To be honest, if I read over my posts, I can find a typo nearly every time. I think about half of it is from people being lazy like that. The other half probably don't know better. It's kind of obvious who is lazy and who doesn't know better.

To some extent I agree. Lately I do run my posts throught a spelling checker most of the time. Bad spelling can really make an argument look weak.

Basic english should be respected, especially sentence construction. Seeing long sentences without interpunction or capitals can also piss me off.

But I think errors like 'nuclaer' are fine. I mean your president can't even pronounce that :)

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Originally Posted by Neruo

But I think errors like 'nuclaer' are fine. I mean your president can't even pronounce that :)
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Leave the President-bashing to us. We've had enough practice over the years.

I am not good a grammer. Mostly because I'm not good at re-wording things or spelling words over 6 letters long. But it really bugs me how teenage girls talk.

"Oh my god like oh my god my math paper oh my god like"
"like oh my god ya like me 2 like oh my god!"

And antoher thing with teenagers is some trying to fit as many cuss words into a sentance as possible. Sure I cuss sometimes, usally unintentionally but, well it's as pointless as putting captions on the Jerry Springer show. Every other word is going to be a *beep* anyway. Just as you can say 'My teacher is a idiot' without adding '&*%$ my &*%$ing teacher is a &*%$ idoit'. Or a simple re-wording of the above sentances could easily be 'My math paper.' even though thats just a fragment anyway, and 'Me too'.

I spellings and grammers jsut gud thunk youse.

I don't pay as much attention to my grammar and punctuation when online than in other circumstances. It also depends on who I'm talking with and what impression I'm trying to make. It's the same in speaking, actually. People adjust their grammar and tone to correspond with the situation at hand - you speak differently with a group of known peers than you might with your grandparents. There's nothing wrong with it.

I don't have a problem with how people talk, online, so long as I can understand what they're trying to write. Spelling is actually one of my biggest pet peeves online, for that very reason. I don't expect punctuation to be perfect, and I expect arguments to be made at least somewhat in-the-moment, like talking conversations, so I don't expect full thoughts to always come out. The only time full thoughts are needed is when someone is trying to make an argument, in which case, I want the full thoughts or I don't understand. I think that's fair.

The other great thing about the internet is that people are conversating from around the world, let alone around a single country. The US alone has a number of dialects and ethnic backgrounds, which makes it somewhat problematic if someone gets in-the-moment and types more like they would talk than how they might write a term paper. Grammar police might cringe when that happens (I'm no exception), but it really should just be ignored, if you understand what is being said. Then there's the fact that people from country's other than one's own will be online discussing... take it easy. For all you know, there could be different grammar rules being followed by such a person simply because English (for example) is taught differently in one country than in another. There's no point in fussing over every little error in grammar, punctuation, spelling, or whatever when you're online.

Besides... am I, or you, the authority when it comes to proper punctuation and grammar? I don't think so.

So I don't think it's a big deal at all.

On one American forum I was pulled up for my spelling of certain words. What the person didn't realise was that UK spelling of words like honour, favour, foetus, paediatrician is different!

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Originally Posted by loveapple

What the person didn't realise was that UK spelling of words like honour, favour, foetus, paediatrician is different!
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Different?

DIFFERENT!?

F%$&

CORRECT, not different!

:shakehead2: American heretics.

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Originally Posted by The

Different?

DIFFERENT!?

F%$&

CORRECT, not different!

:shakehead2: American heretics.
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Hahaha. :cooler:

I write the way I write because I want to be a good writer. I'm not saying my writing is the paragon of grammar, but I do make an effort to follow the rules of English and improve my writing. I do this because I admire people who write articulately and persuasively. When I started frequenting online message boards some years ago, I came across an occasional post that was very clear and eloquent, effectively conveying the poster's feelings and putting forward a strong argument. Every time I saw a post like this, I wanted to do that. I wanted to write like that.

I admire people who are capable of writing articulately and eloquently, a skill that takes more than just applying the rules of grammar. Proper grammar does not by itself make for interesting writing. I read plenty of well-written articles and forum posts, but only rarely do I come across a person whose writing I find consistently enjoyable and interesting. These people can write about the most trivial subject, the most mundane incident, and I'll still enjoy what they have to say. A good, unique style can elevate writing from simply correct to genuinely interesting, and I hope that, say, ten years from now, I'll have come into my own and developed my own interesting style.

As for people using improper grammar... Well, you can't expect everyone to have polished writing skills, although I suppose there are levels of proficiency we expect from certain age groups. I expect a 20 year old to be familiar with, among other things, capitalization and punctuation, such as the proper use of commas, periods, and semicolons; I expect a 15 year old to know at least basic punctuation, enough to churn out a decent essay.

Writing is a very important skill, and maybe needs more emphasis from teachers and parents. When someone writes below the margin of expected ability, I think it fair that they study up some more on grammar. I'm not, however, going to pounce on someone for one misplaced comma or split infinitive.

I certainly appreciate it when people at least go so far as to check their spelling, and if they fix their grammar while they're at it, all the better. Of course, online, I do tend to use contractions, but not the normal, "kthxbai" type. Just things like "C'mon" and "'cuz". Mostly just to add some flavor--I mean, just typing is drab. So, I type the way I talk. Sometimes I use contractions, and sometimes they aren't quite the standard--but I always put in the effort to ensure it is still readable in the end, something I wish more people would do...

In other words, lolocaustomgwtfbbqhaxroflmao.

i generally worry about spelling but i see writing in all lower case as an internet way of being informal. if i'm writing an article then i'll be careful but surely as long as the message gets through and the author doesn't look like a retard, then what does it matter?

People tend to be lazy and go for the easiest and quickest way of typing things. Chat doesn't help much either.

I try to keep use proper grammar but after years of chat and MSN I just get used to rushing sentences.

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Originally Posted by Quartz

In other words, lolocaustomgwtfbbqhaxroflmao.

i generally worry about spelling but i see writing in all lower case as an internet way of being informal. if i'm writing an article then i'll be careful but surely as long as the message gets through and the author doesn't look like a retard, then what does it matter?
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Personally, I find that when everything is lowercase it's fairly difficult to read. Capitalization is another sign that denotes the beginning of a sentence. When sentences are run together, I have to take more time to pull it apart, so periods are nice as well.

I know what you mean, but in general, when I'm posting on a forum or anywhere that doesn't require that anything I say be said in three seconds, I try to make it as easy to read as possible. If I'm playing a game, I'll shorten things, but other than that...

i try to type the proper way... but since i'm not english by birth, it might sometimes be messed up...

however, those really handy abbreviations are cool too (wtf lol!!!)

i also forget to capitalise all the time...

I think it's more or less that people pretty much rush things, as if the internet is going somewhere sometime soon. Another issue also, I don't think people really care especially when it comes to chatting, however people usually type the way they talk.

Yeah, some people do have really sloppy grammar...whether it's a product of bad education, or them simply not caring, it's all the same.

I personally don't mind improper grammar as long as the message they're getting at is properly conveyed. On the internet, in chat rooms and such, it's not so important, but it's still a good thing to do, some people are really picky when it comes to proper spelling and punctuation, even reprimanding others for theirs.

I type the way I do because that's the way I've learned. It's clear, and I like it that way.

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Originally Posted by Amethyst

...So I pose a question: why do you type the way that you do?
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Because punctuation is my friend!

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Originally Posted by Gwendolyn

I type the way I do because that's the way I've learned. It's clear, and I like it that way.
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Yeah, definitely. Everyone has their own style...

In my opinion, it's important. If you don't stick to the same spellings and grammar as everyone else, we'd soon have the language fall apart and fall into distinct variations (just like crazy American English). And that's just ugly. Sure, it's not an evident problem now with some silly variations like "u r so gewd", but grammar does convey meaning just as much as the words themselves. That and you just look stupid. Ha-ha!

I saw this thread and agree that people should use proper grammar and spelling. Although, I have been guilty of getting carried away in a long story somtimes and just forgetting the whole of my education.

This thread also reminded me of an interview Ali G did with Andy Rooney. Enjoy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NpDyJObCKOY

Some things are more a matter of style, but I do agree that it doesn't matter what medium you're typing in, be it a thesis or some myspace; confusing their/they're/there, or your/you're (all of which are 100% logical) makes you sound like you're a few chips short of a fish dinner.

Some mistakes, I am more fogiving on. Like if you misspell "consistent" by writing "consistant"... yeah, you screwed up, but on some level, that's a failure of the language. But at the same time, if you misspell ridiculous ("rEdiculous"), that's more annoying.

And it's not that I'm a grammar nazi and will call you out for these things. I won't say "you have to correct your grammar or else I won't dignify your post with an answer," but everyone has a "reading voice" and... Well, if you write like a retard, my reading voice will automatically change to make you sound like a retard, which just subconsciously takes away from your credibility.

Example. Seeker writes, "Joy and temperance and repose slam the door on the doctor's nose". - Longfellow

Now if I quote seeker quoting Longfellow I ????

Thankas! :D

On this forum I always try to use proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. I feel that this type of community is one where sharing thoughts and knowledge is key - and so to write using any unclear style is to limit my potential to achieve my goal on this forum. On other forums and chat applications, however, you'll see me use every abbreviation and break every rule in the book. The reason is simple - it saves time, and I'm only trying to communicate, not persuade or envelop people.

I also feel there is a large correlation between maturity and proper grammar when your only tool to communicate is text. I can imagine many teens wouldn't make this assumption which is why the younger generation (I'm not so old myself...) embraces internet slang.

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Originally Posted by pokilty

On this forum I always try to use proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. I feel that this type of community is one where sharing thoughts and knowledge is key - and so to write using any unclear style is to limit my potential to achieve my goal on this forum. On other forums and chat applications, however, you'll see me use every abbreviation and break every rule in the book. The reason is simple - it saves time, and I'm only trying to communicate, not persuade or envelop people.

I also feel there is a large correlation between maturity and proper grammar when your only tool to communicate is text. I can imagine many teens wouldn't make this assumption which is why the younger generation (I'm not so old myself...) embraces internet slang.

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I agree.
.
.
Maybe I am in the wrong thread.
I think there is one around where you ask questions. :?

Example. Seeker writes, "Joy and temperance and repose slam the door on the doctor's nose". - Longfellow

Now if I quote seeker quoting Longfellow I ????

But to answer the original question I type the way I do because that is the way I learned 0_o ~Badly

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Originally Posted by pokilty

I also feel there is a large correlation between maturity and proper grammar when your only tool to communicate is text. I can imagine many teens wouldn't make this assumption which is why the younger generation (I'm not so old myself...) embraces internet slang.

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Well, then! Haha, I'd like to consider myself a bit of a success story... I'm only fifteen, and I learned how to type entirely on AIM, where quick slang is favorable to slow precision typing. When I started posting on forums, I did start out using my internet slang (lots of lols and generally poor sentence structure).

So, what made me change? Two things. First of all, I cared about what I was saying (it was a political forum). I wanted my ideas to be clear and understandable to avoid them being overlooked or dismissed. Second, every time I read a post by someone using internet slang (ESPECIALLY 'u' and numbers) I find myself using an unnecessarily loud, disjointed and childish reading voice (in my head). I figured that unless I wanted people to see me as... special... in their mind's eye, I had better start shaping up.

I generally have no problem with slang and abbreviations used during real time chats, because they're efficient - there's no denying that. However, when someone has ample time to compose a well-thought out paragraph and instead dashes out near-nonsensical numbers and one-letter abbreviations... it just seems careless to me. If I'm taking the care to make myself clear, it can be insulting to have someone respond in such a manner.

I also find that speaking eloquently online makes you speak eloquently in your head, which in turn makes you speak eloquently in real life. That, in my opinion, is a priceless skill. People will take you seriously despite your age if you can hold your own in an intelligent conversation with adults.