Racism

Do you think racism is gone?
Well I pretty much thought that racism was gone, however watching the history of racism on BBC7 I saw how I was wrong. At the end of the program they said lots of statistic like in america the life quality and expectency is really bad compared to whites, unemployment of black people is twice of a white person also add on the fact of institutionlized racism and how it harder for a black person to get a job. Their were more examples, however you get the picture. The only postive statistic I could find is that the number of black and white rationship and children is increasing and that so called half caste people will be really common like half the population in the near future. I don't know the full statistic, however it was like in 2080 half the population of children in britian would be half caste.
Most of the racism today is hidden and people high up in social chain are racist and the lowest people in the social chain. The BNP what is a racist party wining a seat in parliment just show racism hasen't gone away. Although immegrant and illegal immegrant get attacked more then black people now. At the end they said how race was nothing I think 5 genes out of a thousand, the real reason for racism seem to be the exploitation of one person to benefit another. Slavery is a different story as their are slaves they make your shoes and your coffee.

Haha. Racism gone? You really thought that? To bad that by far is not the case, in any country. We are somewhat on the way however. I mean it isn't as bad as it was in the 1940s or something. However, at this rate, there will be no racism only by the year 2350. : /

Also, I don't think racial mixing will go that fast, since there is so much racial segregation it will take ages for the elite to mix, and most of the time the poor and stupid people don't know any better then to be racist.

What is called "Racism" is WAY more complex than one group being oppressed by another. It involves politics, culture, in-group exploitation and a lot more.

The easy way out is to point at one group and blame everything on them. That doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny in most cases anymore.

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Also, I don't think racial mixing will go that fast, since there is so much racial segregation it will take ages for the elite to mix,[/b]

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Oh yeah in Brazil everyone is mixed, however the social elite is all white.

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However, at this rate, there will be no racism only by the year 2350. : /[/b]

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Global warming would proberly make this even further 2800.

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I mean it isn't as bad as it was in the 1940s or something.[/b]

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Statistically speaking it is, however everbody life quality did increase their is still a big gap.

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Haha. Racism gone? You really thought that?[/b]

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I don't know someone who is racism and in the history books it show how racism is nearly gone.

Hmm, brazil perhaps, but isn't that a rare case? In Africa, America, Europe, Russia, China, ect, ect I don't really think there is that much racial mixing. Still there is some, so I do think one day races will be way more vague. lol: Probably some 'elite' (self-proclaimed) of 'pure whites' or 'pure blacks' will stand up thinking they are all superior and shit : /

Anyhow, yeah maybe history books aren't really clear on how increadably much economical segregation there still is. However, it isn't Pure racism. America for instance also has millions of shit-poor white people. However, the elite with thousands of times more money then the poor is all white ...

Anyhow. Blame capitalism. :wink:

There was an interesting article in a recent New Scientist magazine which basically stated that prejudice is a survival instinct, and everyone is susceptible. It makes sense. It's not like I'm condoning racism or anything; I just think that prejudicial tendencies are so strong amongst humans that it's not just going to dissappear. We're stuck with it, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Anyhow. Blame capitalism. :wink:[/b]

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Amen

Capitalism is indefintely the pure reason for racism.

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Originally Posted by imran_p

Amen

Capitalism is indefintely the pure reason for racism.[/b]

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That's ridiculous. Firstly, racism cannot be pinned down to one cause. Secondly, racism seems to be a natural human tendancy.

I actually agree with both of you guys (Irman and Patric).

First of, I think that prejudice really is something people just are, by nature. Grouping together always have been a way to survive and thrive. Having a group means you think other people are 'inferior' in some way. If looked at rationally however, I believe one can see beyond his own little group/class/race and see we are all just people with the same way of thinking, and being assholes to other classes/races/groups has no use.

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However, our capitalism, also something that is somehow inside of us. Basically, greed and such. That really has been the cause of the segregation we know today. If because of capitalism we didn't exploit Africa, maybe Africa wasn't so shit-poor as it is now. Actually, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be. Also, 'because' of capitalism, most rich people are white. Europe just took the technological upper hand at some time, and regardless of other people's race just went for the money. The result still remains: Rich white people, poor black people.

I make it sound like there are only 2 races in the world : ) Also, my explanation is pretty bad, but I hope you get the point.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

However, our capitalism, also something that is somehow inside of us. Basically, greed and such. That really has been the cause of the segregation we know today. If because of capitalism we didn't exploit Africa, maybe Africa wasn't so shit-poor as it is now. Actually, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be. Also, 'because' of capitalism, most rich people are white. Europe just took the technological upper hand at some time, and regardless of other people's race just went for the money. The result still remains: Rich white people, poor black people.

I make it sound like there are only 2 races in the world : ) Also, my explanation is pretty bad, but I hope you get the point.[/b]

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I hadn't thought of that... good point.

for me: to be racist means that you belong to a (racial) group and that people of this (racial) group are superior (or worth more) than people in other groups.

think about this:

would you sacrifice 10 african americans to save 10 white americans (if youre white american I mean)?
would you sacrifice 10 arabs to save ten americans?
( I put the arab example simply because I think they are the people that americans feel more racist against)

and so on...

a completely non racist person would not be able to make a choice between any of them because he would not feel part of any group. The question would look something like this:

would you sacrifice 10 Burgundians to save 10 Basques (random groups) - can you choose if you have no prejudice?

my point is that most people have prejudice (preference) between races (or groups it doesnt have to be black/white) and they cant see beyond that to see that they are really just people.

PS: even in places that there is little racial difference people will find ways to separate themselves into groups and think the other groups inferior... (football teams here in Europe - do you realise someone stabbing you to death because you support a different football team?)

I don't really agree that Capitalism has caused racism in any way. Just because the U.S. has had a history of extreme racism, aka slavery, and they are under a capitalist system does not mean the two are related. I think that Communist or Socialist countries have just as much a chance of being racist..For example, communist China was far from accepting all groups of people as equals.

Moving from economic systems like Capitalism and Communism to political systems.. I think democracy allows for a majority group to further alienate a minority group by mass rule. However, I don't think that the solution to racism is Facsism or something like that because those systems, in their own way, also contribute to discrimination... I think it just takes education of the majority and a disassemblage of the racism that is already entrenched in society.. Anyways just my 2cents.

Truly, Classicla Marxism in its pure form would abolish racism not contribute to it.

Captialism is the cause of racism. Slavery, atroticious foregin policy, cahrging around the globe expanding the free market. The United States would not be in Iraq without econjomic reasons. Do you think these cosntant wars i nthe middle east, contribute to racism or not?

What about paying immigrant workers lower wages?

The bourgeoise through their captialist propaganda casue the working class to embrace nationalism and racism. Ther easo nthey need this nationalism is so that the working class will enroll, will join their imperialist armies. To charge around the globe, opressing these "lesser races"

Simply it goes like this. In a captialist society there is the bouregoise and the proletariat. In most societies, the bouregoise consits of a specific colour and the proleetariat is a mix of many ethnicities. In most cases the bourgeoise are white, and what we are left with is steretypical views of the other ethnicities and nationalism amongst the white working class.

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Capitalism uses racism to justify slavery and war,

and to legitimise military occupations and colonialism

It seeks to create division in the working class,

to turn us against each other when we should

be uniting and fighting the system as whole[/b]

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Classical Marxism and msot of the variations on Marxism comepeltley oppose racism, I say msot because there are thiose that will bring up Stalinism.
Marx said hismelf that the white working class could enver be free whislt the black working class was still branded. The proletariat must work together, they msut be the champions of all opressed peoples.

Imran

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Originally Posted by pj

What is called "Racism" is WAY more complex than one group being oppressed by another. It involves politics, culture, in-group exploitation and a lot more.

The easy way out is to point at one group and blame everything on them. That doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny in most cases anymore.[/b]

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The defenition of Racism is very well and objectively explained Here on Wikipedia

Racism always seems to manifest itself as Discrimination based on Racial, Ethnical background. Meaning the Inequal Treatment of people based on their Ethnicity/Race.

Racism is far from gone; I have always left the house with my chains of which one has a David-star Pendant.
There have been a couple of people that cussed at me with ''JEW!'' Needless to say that calling me a Jew doesn't insult me since I see it as a great honor to have an ethnic and Cultural background rooted in such a marvelous culture with such a beautyfull and spiritual history. They were a couple of black guys who last yelled at me ''JEW'' and hurled a stone at me. All I did was turn around, look them straight in the eyes, smile and continue to walk on. I was with my girlfriend so she witnessed how far racism is from being gone.

I find it strange that black people, undoubtably having been victim of Racism themselves, are so ignorant and stupid to participate in the same ugly Racist behaviour that targets them. Also I have seen a couple of Moroccan/Arabic peoples look at my David-star pendant and look me in the eyes like I was some sort of terrible Criminal.(As if I, as a person, have anything to do with the Israëli/Palestinian conflict) Allthough it doesn't happen all the time, it DOES happen occasionally.

Here in Holland we have alot of people who are very racist and hatefull towards etnic minorities mainly from Negro Caribbean and Arabic Moroccan backgrounds, allthough I feel that the Racism is slowly declining amongst the newer generations to come. In the years before 1947 hardily any foreigners lived in Holland and when they came to Holland after those years people were rather Xenophobic and affraid of their ''strange'' cultures at first; Now they are slowly learning to get comfortable and even interrested with other Cultures and skin colors.

This may be due to the fact that this Country has more and more foreign people that immigrate to Holland and people from these different backgrounds are now Finally learning to Deal with eachother's differences: Dutch kids and Half Dutch or kids with two foreign parents are now more and more common to grow up in eachother's neighborhood and go to school together from being very little. Sure their are alot of Racist parents that try to keep this Filthy tradition of hate and in-equality alive by poisoning their children with it. But kids develop a Mind of their own and are also influenced by one another.

The fact that people from different ethnicities and cultures are learning to deal with eachother and respect eachother as fellow-people that should be treated equally is a very positive development.

I'm actually ''half-cast'' myself. My mom is Dutch and my Father is Israëli. My girlfriend is also ''half cast'' as her mom is Cape Verdian and her Father is Dutch. I myself have always been greatly interrested in Cultures other than the Dutch: which doesn't have alot of culture since they sold their Identity in the Industrial Revolution (1920 - 1930) and whatever Cultural Dutch Architecture was left was either bombed into oblivion by the Germans in WW2 or broken down and replaced by Skyscrapers and appartments. Often times Dutch racists blame ´´the foreigners´´ for dominating our Culture whilst forgetting we´don´t HAVE any culture anymore.

So long as free will exists among humans, there will always be racism, war, and hate. There would actually be less conflict if we all stayed divided and only associated with people who are like ourselves, but that would probably decrease the strength of humanity. America is strong because it has such a diverse population of the high class people, middle class people, and low class people. All these are critical components which make and power America. It does not at all matter if you are a low class person or a high class person so long as you are happy. Isn't happiness really all that matters? In America, if you really want to become a high class person then you must believe in yourself, and not continue to think the world around you is keeping you down. Most of the time, low class people blame racism for their troubles and little success while they themselves are the ones oppressing.

In my experiences, black people and latin people pay the most attention to race. They call white people crackers, white boys, and whiteys. They also call white people who supposedly act gangster wiggers, and black people who supposedly act white are called oreos. I feel as if white people in this country have learned their lesson on racism while blacks and latinos have not. Does anyone else see this?

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

In my experiences, black people and latin people pay the most attention to race.[/b]

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I guess you never heard about "affirmative action" :roll:

On the racism/capitalism relation:

Capitalism doesn't directly cause racism, but very often it sets up and maintains situations that make racism bound to happen. Capitalism isn't about equality, it is about (economic) division, rich and poor. That often gets accompanied by division between races, countries, and later on division of classes capitalism itself is good at creating: economic classes.

If you are white, and all your friends are white, and you are all rich, you don't really have a motivation to be friends with a bunch of poor Mexicans, for example. People just work that way, and capitalism does indirectly promote it.

Doesn't mean people don't like to form their own little group, and feel like they are better then others under any other system, but a system like socialism is less likely to create situations where racism and other discriminations are less likely. After all: Socialism about about equality. That doesn't mean one group of people all equal can't hate some other group, but if there is less economic division that does cause a bit less racism/discrimination I would say.

Also, I would like to point out that one of the first places where women were treated equally, payed equally and given the right to let their vote count was in Russian factories when the workers took over. That was in like 1910/1920 or something... (to bad that in a few years, all the good ideas about socialism were obliterated by some assholes, that always happens with good revolutions :/)

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, I would like to point out that one of the first places where women were treated equally, payed equally and given the right to let their vote count was in Russian factories when the workers took over. That was in like 1910/1920 or something... (to bad that in a few years, all the good ideas about socialism were obliterated by some assholes, that always happens with good revolutions :/)[/b]

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If only Trotsky had won the power struggle =(

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Originally Posted by Unicorn

I guess you never heard about "affirmative action" :roll:[/b]

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No, I have not ever heard about it and I thank you very much for bringing something that promotes what we have worked so hard to eliminate to my attention.

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

So long as free will exists among humans, there will always be racism, war, and hate. There would actually be less conflict if we all stayed divided and only associated with people who are like ourselves, but that would probably decrease the strength of humanity.?[/b]

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So what's more important to you? The ''Strength of Humanity''? Or more Unison and Peace amongst Humanity?
The Strength of Humanity to do what might I ask? I reckon that the Division you mentioned is EXACTLY the Tools of Devision used by the systems of control like the government & the rich elite use to keep the people down and themselves in power. Racism, Religious hatred, Cultural conflict..etc are these Tools: And they're working quite well to my great dispair. Most, if not all, wars and conflicts are fueled and justiftied (read: used for a lame excuse) by these tools.

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

America is strong because it has such a diverse population of the high class people, middle class people, and low class people. All these are critical components which make and power America. It does not at all matter if you are a low class person or a high class person so long as you are happy. Isn't happiness really all that matters? In America, if you really want to become a high class person then you must believe in yourself, and not continue to think the world around you is keeping you down. Most of the time, low class people blame racism for their troubles and little success while they themselves are the ones oppressing.[/b]

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Man, I'm not so sure about that. Why don't you walk the parks and streets of New Yorkl and ask the 100nds of homeless people lying there if they are happy? Also ask them if they believed in themselves before they ended up homeless and how much chances they had in American society begin with. I think their Answers would show you that not everyone gets enough chances to flurish in your Country. The amount of money you'll make is largely dependant on the amount of money you can afford paying to get good education. Kinda sucks for you if you were born in a lower class family doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

In my experiences, black people and latin people pay the most attention to race. They call white people crackers, white boys, and whiteys. They also call white people who supposedly act gangster wiggers, and black people who supposedly act white are called oreos. I feel as if white people in this country have learned their lesson on racism while blacks and latinos have not. Does anyone else see this?[/b]

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Oh yeah? Well I have heard white people call black people Niggers, jiggaboos, nikkers, Blacks, Monkeys, Subhumans.
I have heard white people call Jews Traitors, Conspirators, Thiefs, Husslers and Satan's Children. I've heard white people call Latinos Spicks, Tequilla drinkers, Border Jumpers, Pepper eaters..etc Not very civilised is it?
I can see why alot of Black people and Latino people, that have formerly and STILL (Mind you!) been heavily discriminated, now have formed a sort of counter-culture movement. They now take EXTRA pride in their Ethnic Identity and racial Background. Sure; Some of them take this waaaay too far and end up participating in ''Counter-Racism'' themselves; which off course doesn't make them ANY better than any other Racist.

However I must say in my experience Racism is still most common amongst white people. Always against all foreigners and believing in a maniacal white race supremacy. Amongst people from ethnic minorities Racism is much less common in my Experience. This might be because they know very well how low and filthy Racism is, They've experienced it first hand at the receiving end, and therefor wouldn't as quickly participate in it. White people have hardily ever, if ever at all, been mass victim to mass opression due to their race. Maybe some occasional incidents, but nothing as large as the infamous enslavement of Africans, the Holocaust on Jews, the Cruisades on Arabs and the Land-hijacking & Genocide on the Native Indian tribes of the Americas; Things that were all born out of White European Supremacy.

I have never seen such epic Discriminative events and crimes having been comitted on such a scale on White people.
Do you agree? And do you understand what I mean Cymek?

Apologies, but that post I made yesterday happened before I was informed that my replacement Wii was in. The other one was defective. Apologies to you too Neruo for having such extremely delayed responses in the Dateline: To Catch a Predator thread. I was going to write something up today, but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen anytime soon.

I quite often put my own personal entertainment in front of making posts in this forum and I guess I should start making less posts in this forum as they often require additional, time-consuming responses.

For now, I've got my Wii! WOOT!! :aphiusiscrazy:

:hrm: I think your post doesn't belong to this topic...

The purpose was to state why my response would be delayed. I still check in periodically to make a few short posts. I just wanted to let them know that I hadn't just chickened out.

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Originally Posted by imran_p

If only Trotsky had won the power struggle =([/b]

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Trostky? But he was a lame traitor, right? All the pictures and history books say he is, so he was.

Actually, besides that you have to give it to Stalin that he brilliantly kicked Trotsky out of businesses in such a way, it makes me wonder how much 'history' also was forged by people that took over/used it to took over. Luckily it is hard to 'change history' in such a fundamental way, most of the time people notice the lies.... 30 years later, when it is to late... just to fall into another lie : )

Ok off topic.

Racism is teh bad, mhkay?

To say blacks and Mexicans are more racist then whites, is like being a Christian-fundamentalist and saying You aren't a religion, atheism is. There are plently of racist white people. And guess what? Most of the time they are handing out the jobs.

It is more evil to hold a grudge against someone that hasn't done you bad, then to hold a grudge against someone that did do you bad.

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Originally Posted by imran_p

Apologies, but that post I made yesterday happened before I was informed that my replacement Wii was in. The other one was defective. Apologies to you too Neruo for having such extremely delayed responses in the Dateline: To Catch a Predator thread. I was going to write something up today, but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen anytime soon.

I quite often put my own personal entertainment in front of making posts in this forum and I guess I should start making less posts in this forum as they often require additional, time-consuming responses.

For now, I've got my Wii! WOOT!! :aphiusiscrazy:[/b]

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Cool, A Wii!

Besides that, stfu and type your responses! >: ( Haha. No, actually, take your time. The forum isn't going to go anywhere :) *huge crash* Oh SHI-.

Racism won't be gone for a while. I really don't understand racism, and i have a feeling a lot of the new generation doesn't really understand it either. We are racists because our parents are racist. when everyone forgets about the slave times, racism will be gone.