Thread: Video: World trade center 9/11 a modern MYTH!?

Has been posted before, 3 times even . It's called Zeitgeist the movie. I think it's awesome and scary.

the real myth is the world trade center buildings, which were never real, just hoaxes created by the moon.

Originally Posted by shark!

the real myth is the world trade center buildings, which were never real, just hoaxes created by the moon.

You obviously haven't watched the videos.

@ Bonsay, I suspected that... =/. Do you believe they are real?

On "The men behind the curtains"...holy crap! How ironic is it that JFK gave that speech about secrecy and monolithic powers...and they fucking kill him and cover it up! Aaaa!

^^ After watching that...

I am reminded of how much our world is like that of "1984." I hope more people learn about these things and start to question authority...before thinking is made illegal.

Originally Posted by BohmaN

You obviously haven't watched the videos.

@ Bonsay, I suspected that... =/. Do you believe they are real?

I want to be open-minded, but I see no reason not to believe it to be real. The Christian part makes sense and so does everything else, don't see "the theory" in this conspiracy.

That was funny when Bush was like "we gotta get Saddam Husss---I mean--BIN LADEN!!" when we went into Afganistan. Every time he goofs up and lets something like that slip...

Zeitgeist is bullshit, do research yourself.

Originally Posted by jaasum

Zeitgeist is bullshit, do research yourself.

Thats called a hasty generalization, not to mention an unsubstantiated one at that.

The movie contains many half-truths, and outright false assumptions, littered among many facts. It has a section on 9/11 that promotes the idea that there must have been govt complicity but it touts the dubious evidence (such as a missile hit the Pentagon, the Hijacker list was wrong) as on the same level as the irrefutable evidence (such as explosions in the WTC, FBI's secret support of terrorists, etc).

So the movie is probably a disinformation project. There are many documentaries on the same world events that do a much better job and are not interspersed with misleading speculation and dishonesty.

I was very disappointed with the 2nd section on 911 and the 1st on Christianity was far too speculative and torturous of facts. The 3rd part was very good but the amount of research needed to cite it all as fact is daunting. I suspect most of it is true. For instance we know the Federal Researve Bank is largely a criminal organization whose goal was despised by the founding fathers of America. And that JFK was assasinated by the CIA was recently revealed to be very likely.

That the good stuff is buried at the end of the film only fuels my suspicion that the documentary was supposed to be another, much farther-reaching kind of Loose Change movie (a semi-disinfo film used for discrediting strawmen).

You need to look up the definition of myth.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You need to look up the definition of myth.

I just quoted what was said in the link.

Well the movie is of course meant to be speculative, but the speculations are based on a sufficient amount of facts to be somewhat truthful. They do make alot of sense. I've seen another video about why it's physiolocially impossible that the world trade center collapsed due to the planecrash only. The speaker was a well-known architect and he seemed very knowledgable about the subject and his evidence that he presented in the 2 hour video was very clear and convincing. I didn't watch the whole video, 20 min was enough to convince me. If you go to the zeitgeist homepage I think you can find the link there.

memeticverb, are you religious? Just a thought since you didn't like the first video. I have nothing against religious people. In fact, I now stand on the fence whether I should believe in religion or not.

Originally Posted by BohmaN

I just quoted what was said in the link.

Well the movie is of course meant to be speculative, but the speculations are based on a sufficient amount of facts to be somewhat truthful. They do make alot of sense. I've seen another video about why it's physiolocially impossible that the world trade center collapsed due to the planecrash only. The speaker was a well-known architect and he seemed very knowledgable about the subject and his evidence that he presented in the 2 hour video was very clear and convincing. I didn't watch the whole video, 20 min was enough to convince me. If you go to the zeitgeist homepage I think you can find the link there.

memeticverb, are you religious? Just a thought since you didn't like the first video. I have nothing against religious people. In fact, I now stand on the fence whether I should believe in religion or not.

Yeah that video you are probably talking about is probably a lecture by Richard Gage, the architect who recently started Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth.

No im not religious, but I do believe spirituality signifies something real. I thought the first part of Zeitgeist was simply taking various passages of historically religious txts out of context. You would think that if it were really true that the "Jesus myth" was really a story similar to all cultures that this would speak in favor of some transcendent reality (or illusion) since how could all the cultures agree on something when there was no way for them to communicate it?

thats too long of a video and i dont wanna sit there, bored. what exactly is the myth supposedly? im thinking some kinda hippy bullshit? but i dont wanna watch it...

You should seriously watch it. It's very interesting. It's about that the collaps of world trade center was actually a demolition controlled by supposedly CIA. The Zeitgeist movie gives theories on how and why this happened.

I also believe spirituality exists. I completely agree with what cygnus had to say here:
http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=41540

We have been arguing about the 9/11 conspiracy stuff in the Extended Discussion forum. I think conspiracy theories are a trip, and my favorite book is about the secret world government, the Illuminati. I love the stuff. However, as for where I stand in reality, I don't think the 9/11 conspiracy notion adds up. Here is a summary of where I stand on this whole thing.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If my government pulled that superhorrendous act, which really wigged me out personally and shook up almost all of the people I know and care about for a long time, making us worry our asses off about our country having to go to war, possibly a world war, and face future terrorist acts where tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans or more could be killed in single attacks, then HELL YEAH I want to know. That would be very huge. I'm not shutting out the possibility of it. I am asking questions to try to understand the concept better, and I get almost nothing but evasiveness and insults. Do you know what the conversation in the last few pages of this thread reminds me of? It reminds me of the Religion forum. I am talking to people who passionately spew out their extreme views, and when I ask the most relevant questions that can be asked, I get flipped off and avoided. I am not merely trying to cross examine people and back them into corners. I really want to understand the areas where I think the logic fails, just like I do with Christianity. This is just like arguing with Keeper and Jeremysr. Since the very interesting and extremely serious notion has been thrown at me like I am a bastard of the universe for not believing it, I want to know how airplane and airport staff were fooled into thinking there were pilots on those airplanes. I want to know why construction and demolition experts all over the world are not engaged in large scale chatter, or even small scale chatter, just trace chatter. The only evidence I see has to do with tiny minorities of experts and large masses of nowhere near experts saying stuff about how boards and beams should have fallen and how a few firemen heard a loud noise when what used to be the two tallest buidings in the world were in the process of collapsing, and how some of the information about our most serious national security issue of all time is classified. That doesn't cut it for me, so I have to ask questions. I want to know why my government would take such an INSANE risk in order to bring about an incredibly controversial war. I want to know why government officials have not leaked that they were involved in the biggest horror stunt of all time. Not one wife or best friend! I want to know who is leading the major terrorist organization our soldiers are fighting in Iraq if it's not Bin Laden and Al-Zawihiri. I want to know who Al-Zarqawi really was. I want to know who Khallid Sheik Muhammed really was. I want to know who all of those people in Guantanamo Bay and the Iraq POW camps are. This is the most insane conspiracy theory I have ever seen masses of people take seriously, outside of religion. I want to understand the idea in such a way that all of my doubts about it have been cleared up. But I don't get much more than evasions and insults about how closed-minded I supposedly am, when really I am begging for my mind to be filled with answers. I am not getting them. I am dealing with a religion.

So my biggest issues are...

1. Who was flying those airplanes? Who would have been willing to die for Bush's supposed conspiracy? If the planes were being flown by remote control devices, how were airport and airplane staff fooled into thinking they were human pilots? Remember, pilots talk to air traffic control, follow the signals of the flag guys on the runways who are looking right at them, and talk to and know the stewardesses. They also report to airport officials before flight. How could remote control devices pull off all of that?

2. Why do so many of the friends and family members of the victims report that they heard the hijackings taking place and heard from the passengers about the hijackings? Who could have possibly been pulling the suicide hijackings? Could remote control devices do that?

3. Why is there not an overwhelming amount of chatter and outspokenness from the masses of people who are demolition/construction experts? I am not such an expert, so don't try to pull me into an argument about how boards and beams should have fallen. The world is full of experts on that stuff, and I want to know why they are not going off about this in astronomical numbers. We are talking about the biggest news story of all time.

4. Who are/were Bin Laden, Al-Zawihiri, Al-Zarqawi, and Khallid Sheik Muhammed? Are they fictitious characters played by actors?

I have others, but those are the four biggest. I am very open to ideas on those issues, but I have had absolutely zero luck getting any. I cannot swallow the conspiracy idea until those questions have been answered. Please don't respond unless you are going to at least attempt to answer my questions. You are not going to answer my questions by asking me questions about classified government information and how boards are supposed to fall in specific circumstances in enormously complex works of architecture, and insulting me personally for being a nonbeliever will answer nothing.

Universal Mind, here's a video of an architecht presenting tons of evidence that the collaps of the towers were due to a controlled demolition. It's 2 hours long. I didn't watch it all, but I found what I watched to be very convincing.

http://911blogger.com/node/10025

Originally Posted by BohmaN

Universal Mind, here's a video of an architecht presenting tons of evidence that the collaps of the towers were due to a controlled demolition. It's 2 hours long. I didn't watch it all, but I found what I watched to be very convincing.

http://911blogger.com/node/10025

I know there are some architects who say things like that, but I am asking why the masses don't. I don't know enough about construction and demolition to argue with that video. However, I do have a background in social psychology, and it really seems to me that the masses of architects, engineers, construction foremen, and demolition supervisors would be going off to the tops of their lungs in agreement with that video and videos like it if the videos were presenting the truth. What would be your best guess about why they are not doing that?

Originally Posted by BohmaN

Universal Mind, here's a video of an architecht presenting tons of evidence that the collaps of the towers were due to a controlled demolition. It's 2 hours long. I didn't watch it all, but I found what I watched to be very convincing.

http://911blogger.com/node/10025

Sorry to say, but this is because you know nothing about demolition. It would take thousands of feet (miles) of Primacord wired throughout the building, along with copper shaped charges placed on all main beams throughout. Have you ever seen a building setup for a demolition? There is no possible way that the building could have been setup with the cord and explosives without thousands of American people witnessing the event.

At the point of collapse, there is no shockwave events blowing out windows or producing blast effects which would clearly be seen. These events clearly occur in a real demolition before the massive weight of the building even begin to move. By the way, have you ever witnessed high-explosives in real life? They are incredibly loud. The sound of the shockwave of 50 grams of HE can be heard over a mile away with a boom, let alone hundreds of pounds of it. These explosions would have been heard throughout the city moments before the collapse and large noise of the building falling would have even occured. By the way, it is very easy to identify a piece of steel which has been sliced by a shaped charge. Not to mention explosive residue would be left. This would be your findings afterwards, and this was not the case. Clearly, this proves the hoax theory to be simply a hoax itself.The pillar of dark smoke you see tunneling down is crushed particulate (concrete, drywall) due to compression of the air layers being forced out the windows. It was already proven how it happened. It's funny how people cease to acknowledge that, but do acknowledge the bull shit.

The design of the towers presented a very large engineering flaw had an event like this occur. You see the building was designed against fire, but not such so without all of its supporting main columns intact. When the planes impacted, all of the main columns were not left intact. This put the strain on the other columns. The geometric design of the structure now becomes the primary weak link. The heating of the steel caused the remaining structures to begin to warp. Under proper conditions, they would have self supported. But here, the structures became severly loaded with the warping and damaged columns. It was now a clock ticking as the design came closer to failing. Have you ever heard the saying, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link."? Good, here is where you see it demonstrated.

The final event which needed to occur was the failure of only one structural point, as the design was already seriously in trouble. When that failure occured, a chain reaction ensued, and gravity did its part to bring the building down. Once you have momentum involved, the building did not need a demolition to make this work. The extreme energy involved from the collapse of just one floor holding the massive weight above it was enough to carry on the event all the way to the ground.

It really thrills me to be witness of how gullable our nation's public is. Witnessed here first hand, and anywhere else I find myself actually.

Come on folks, use some common sense. I don't like to call people idiots, but do you know how incredibly easy it is to synthesize a story and make the biased portions appear to agree 100% with reality? It's very easy.

The unfortunate thing is it works on the susceptible people like this who actually fall into the trap of believing it, which I do get my fair share of entertainment from as well.

The people who generally know little about the sciences tend to believe the hoaxes I've noticed. I belong to a science/chemistry forum, and the entire forum laughes everytime a new one comes up. It's not because those people there are biased, it is because those people there are intelligent enough to know fact from fiction, and they can back up the claims with an even higher level of knowledge that is not demonstrated in the hoax videos or followers there of.

If you need an even purer motif that requires no questionability...it's all about something green that's called MONEY. The better you trick the public sheeple, the more money you bring. Fortunately for us, it's easier to trick the public with a cheesy video than with a billion dollar demolition operative.

Clearly you haven't seen the Zeitgeist movie, since you say: "By the way, it is very easy to identify a piece of steel which has been sliced by a shaped charge. Not to mention explosive residue would be left. This would be your findings afterwards, and this was not the case."

The movie shows clearly how the pillars of steel were cut off in an awkward angle. Watch it! I'm not saying I believe in this 100%, but it's seems like a reasonable theory.

Also by claiming that this is all a hoax, you are indirectly stating that the hard work of that architect, in the video I linked, was for nothing and he's a complete idiot who knows nothing about how buildings work. I find it unlikely that he would come to a incorrect conclusion.

Originally Posted by BohmaN

Clearly you haven't seen the Zeitgeist movie, since you say: "By the way, it is very easy to identify a piece of steel which has been sliced by a shaped charge. Not to mention explosive residue would be left. This would be your findings afterwards, and this was not the case."

The movie shows clearly how the pillars of steel were cut off in an awkward angle. Watch it! I'm not saying I believe in this 100%, but it's seems like a reasonable theory.

Also by claiming that this is all a hoax, you are indirectly stating that the hard work of that architect, in the video I linked, was for nothing and he's a complete idiot who knows nothing about how buildings work. I find it unlikely that he would come to a incorrect conclusion.

That's just it, you are taking essentially rationalized details and choosing to assume of what is really unproven to you in its entirety.

I'll start by saying that the Zeitgeist movie rings bells of cheap dirty story telling tactic with a cult-like vibe, and internet-gathered info with a random dilusionally bothered guy talking in the background. No I didn't finish it, I almost fell asleep after about 3 minutes.

"The movie shows clearly how the pillars of steel were cut off in an awkward angle."

Ok, that's called metal shear. If the pillars were cut by a shaped charge, there would be copper spray particles implanted into the steel surface. Steel that has sheared will reveal a structural grain of tear easily identifiable under a microscope. Had the steel actually been cut with a shaped charge, the speed at which the copper charge jet impacts the metal causes the metals to act completely fluid as if the metal is water. This leaves an almost slaggy melted cut line appearance also easily indentifiable under a microscope or even to the plain eye.

Did the Zeitgeist video cover any of this for you?

That's just it, you are taking essentially rationalized details and choosing to assume of what is really unproven to you in its entirety.

I always choose to assume what I find to be most likely, not said that I believe in it fully.

I'll start by saying that the Zeitgeist movie rings bells of cheap dirty story telling tactic with a cult-like vibe, and internet-gathered info with a random dilusionally bothered guy talking in the background.

haha, that was funny

Ok, that's called metal shear. If the pillars were cut by a shaped charge, there would be copper spray particles implanted into the steel surface. Steel that has sheared will reveal a structural grain of tear easily identifiable under a microscope. Had the steel actually been cut with a shaped charge, the speed at which the copper charge jet impacts the metal causes the metals to act completely fluid as if the metal is water. This leaves an almost slaggy melted cut line appearance also easily indentifiable under a microscope or even to the plain eye.

Yes that's covered in the architect's video.

Even if we can't agree on the specifics, I think the main idea is true regardless and is something that can't be ignored. Letting the authorities lie to us, incite fear, and restrict our personal freedoms (like speaking out against the war, which now is essentially a criminal act thanks to Bush) will only continue if we accept the false comfort we're led to believe in. Our true nature is being made illegal because it goes counter to the agenda of the elite.

Originally Posted by Dream Sailor

The people who generally know little about the sciences tend to believe the hoaxes I've noticed. I belong to a science/chemistry forum, and the entire forum laughes everytime a new one comes up. It's not because those people there are biased, it is because those people there are intelligent enough to know fact from fiction, and they can back up the claims with an even higher level of knowledge that is not demonstrated in the hoax videos or followers there of.

That apparently is the answer to one of my recurring questions. I have asked a hundred million billion quadrillion octillion googleplex times why the chatter about false demolition reports has been so close to completely silent among construction and demolition experts. Nobody has answered me yet. The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that the construction and demolition experts don't see flaws in the government's reports about how the buildings fell. It is always nonexperts and the very occasional wild hair up the ass expert who claim the government's reports are out of synch with true demolition principles. I give up on giving people opportunities to explain to me their perspectives on why the construction/demolition community is so damn quiet about this supposed conspiracy stuff. I think the community doesn't see anything to make a big deal of in the story. If they did, we would be hearing their really loud yells in every corner of the world. I have yet to come across an alternative explanation, and I don't plan to any more.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That apparently is the answer to one of my recurring questions. I have asked a hundred million billion quadrillion octillion googleplex times why the chatter about false demolition reports has been so close to completely silent among construction and demolition experts. Nobody has answered me yet. The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that the construction and demolition experts don't see flaws in the government's reports about how the buildings fell. It is always nonexperts and the very occasional wild hair up the ass expert who claim the government's reports are out of synch with true demolition principles. I give up on giving people opportunities to explain to me their perspectives on why the construction/demolition community is so damn quiet about this supposed conspiracy stuff. I think the community doesn't see anything to make a big deal of in the story. If they did, we would be hearing their really loud yells in every corner of the world. I have yet to come across an alternative explanation, and I don't plan to any more.

Yes, very much so. I like how you say "the very occasional wild hair up the ass expert", because it couldn't be more true than this. All it takes is one "expert" to have an opposing opinion on the matter, and it opens the doors to an underground of thousands of followers who praise his words and buy the ever-so-popular hoax theory. They find it easier to trust someone to speak for them, rather than to learn the physics, chemistry, and principles themselves. This is the jist of the problem with society this day in age. Dumb people allowing other dumb people to represent a mass society. There is power in numbers they say, and there just so happens to be more uneducated people than there are well-educated people in America. Intelligence is of the minority. With such being true, you can imagine how easily dumb ideas will flourish here. Anyone remember the magazine "Weekly World News"? The one claiming stories of celebrities pregnant with extraterrestrial babies and the like. Remember that these idiotic stories actually sell in America.