chivalry: outdated?

the other day I was with a girl friend and one of her guy friends. she was taking us somewhere in her car and her friend took out a CD to put in, and he said "there is one track on here that you guys don't need to hear. it is for men's ears only." (to clarify something: he thought I was a girl and I didn't feel like saying anything. transsexual. blah.)

he was a really, really nice guy. and the world needs more men like him. I'm just wondering if maybe he's a little too nice. I felt his comment was refreshingly chivalrous, but, at the same time, derogatory. I think men censoring themselves in the presence of women is basically treating them like children. if I were a woman, it would really annoy me, but I'm not so I guess I can't say.

thoughts?

[edit]: ok I think the title is a little misleading, I don't mean chivalry in it's entirety is outdated, just that extreme of it.

Well, I'll do my best to quell my sickness at what you are and comment on the topic at hand.

The reason we (I and...whoever else shares my ideals) treat the fairer half with utmost care isn't in any way derogatory. That's a misinterpretation and unfortunately many of the times explanations fall on empty ears.

In essence, the reason behind it isn't because we treat the fairer half like children or any such but on the contrary, because we marvel at them, at their beauty, their kindness, their care, their strengths and their weaknesses, everything about them. Because without them our world would be filled with darkness and war and our lives would have little to no meaning.

Unfortunately, often enough, such care is indeed misinterpreted as being looked down upon.

I agree. It is often because we hold women to a much higher standard than we hold even ourselves. Chivalry is not - and (IMO) should never be - "outdated." Of course, there are women who don't mind a non-chivalrous attitude (even though a likely majority of even those women know that they appreciate it), but if we chivalrous men are making the effort to try to be accommodating, they should at least meet us halfway and let us know (without making a scene) if that kind of chivalry is perceived in a negative light, or is just not wanted by them, individually.

In the situation you wrote about, I think it was much less an issue of censorship (treating you like a child) than it was an observation that, statistically speaking, it was probably reasonable to assume that most women would have been offended by it, whatever it was. However, he could have stated it in a less condescending way.

Indeed, everything that I could say has already been said by the other two gentlemen above me. My girlfriend loves it, and Im sure there are plenty who dont, but I have a feeling it will never be out dated

ok I've edited the first post: I think the title is a little misleading, I don't mean chivalry in it's entirety is outdated, just that extreme of it.


thanks for your replies, I see your points of view. I like what you said here oneironaut:

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but if we chivalrous men are making the effort to try to be accommodating, they should at least meet us halfway and let us know (without making a scene) if that kind of chivalry is perceived in a negative light, or is just not wanted by them, individually.

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that sounds perfect.

That's funny, here it's a little bit the opposite, the women are getting less receptive to acts of gallantry and such...

I have noticed that a few of my girl friends (with a space) get very annoyed if I open the door for them or if I offer them my coat (even though 90% of women have a body temperature approaching that of a Finnish winter...), etc.

Censoring anything definately wouldn't sit well with them... I hope I just have weird friends or that this is a phase or something, because I've been acting like this my whole life and it's pretty much a habbit by now.

Opening doors for people is just a nice thing to do. Anyone who is some how offended by that is just being stupid. Now maybe if you go totally out of your way, and run so you can get there in time to open the door, maybe thats a bit much. Though I some how doubt you were doing that.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Opening doors for people is just a nice thing to do. Anyone who is some how offended by that is just being stupid. Now maybe if you go totally out of your way, and run so you can get there in time to open the door, maybe thats a bit much. Though I some how doubt you were doing that.

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That's where I stand. I open doors for everybody, but I don't bend over backwards to do it.

I think people who open doors and don't hold them open for a moment for people right behind them are very rude. A person who opens a door and just lets it close right before I was about to walk through it might as well walk around with his middle finger in the air. The same is true of somebody who gets to a door right when I do and then opens it and walks in first. I don't want to be like that. Whenever I get to a door at the same time as somebody else, I either open the door and let him/her walk in first or let the other person open the door. It's not about chivalry. It's about not being a jackass.

I open doors a lot. as for male/female chivalry Use common sense. My niceness goes something like this: I am nice to those i deem worthy. The worthy aren't always good looking but rather people who are also nice, who can be themselves. I will never sell my niceness out to someone just because they are good looking.

I am always encouraged when I see men doing nice things for women, especially as the moments seem to come fewer and further between. Personally, it's not always the actions that a man performs (opening doors, allowing a lady to go first), but rather his attitude. And I suppose that goes both ways for both genders.

It means a lot to me when someone watches what they say around me. I'm not that bothered when someone lets out a swear word from time to time, but when it's part of their general vocabulary, it really gets on my nerves. Just yesterday, a customer was in and started going off about all of these f'ing guys who don't know s* about whatever and just wouldn't shut up! It's as if people assume that I talk it up like everyone else, and I'm upset when people can't use discretion.

In addition, I think that some women (including myself) can send mixed signals. We want guys to be helpful and chivalrous and sometimes complain about it, but often when they offer something, we say no and don't let them. One summer in particular, me and a bunch of others were talking about this very thing. When I first arrived, a guy offered to help me carry my luggage to my room, but I declined out of pride. After that conversation, I tried to let a man be a gentleman.

Anyway, may chivalry never die. It will never be outdated.

What about the equivalent of "chivalry" shown by a woman to a man? I don't even know what an example of that could be but... do guys want this sort of thing? Maybe just not being a bitch or condescending or something in general is an example?

Anyway, about the holding doors thing, I don't know if I am comfortable with people letting me walk through first. In fact, I know I'm not, because usually it's strangers or people I don't know very well who do that. Sometimes it may come off as a flirtatious thing as well. As for holding doors open once you've passed through, that's really great, but I think it's mostly an American (possibly Canadian as well?) cultural thing.

What's been happening to me, increasingly, is people seeing me from afar and standing there, waiting for me to get to the door so they can hold it open for me. :wtf: That makes me feel like I need to hurry up and get to the door so as not to inconvenience the person. That's what I would call severely overdoing it.

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Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

What about the equivalent of "chivalry" shown by a woman to a man?

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How about to hurry up and get to the door already :P...

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Originally Posted by Alric

Opening doors for people is just a nice thing to do.

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Exactly. For people. The presence or absence of a Y chromosome should not be a consideration at all for any of these things any of you have said, except O's point of statistically speaking they were likely to be offended was quite valid. However in that case it isn't necessarily some form of special treatment in the case that you avoid offending people in general.

Let's kill chivalry.

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Originally Posted by Merlock

Well, I'll do my best to quell my sickness at what you are and comment on the topic at hand.

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Also, Merlock, get fucked.