Illuminati Secret Covenant Revealed

The Secret Covenant


*An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception.
*Those who will see it will be thought of as insane.
*We will create separate fronts to prevent them from seeing the connection *between us.
*We will behave as if we are not connected to keep the illusion alive.
*Our goal will be accomplished one drop at a time so as to never bring suspicion upon ourselves.
*This will also prevent them from seeing the changes as they occur.
*We will always stand above the relative field of their experience for we know the secrets of the absolute.
*We will work together always and will remain bound by blood and secrecy. *Death will come to he who speaks.
*We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while pretending to do the opposite.
*We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle ways so they will never see what is happening.
*We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in food and water, also in the air.
*They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn.
*The soft metals will cause them to lose their minds.
*We will promise to find a cure from our many fronts, yet we will feed them more poison.
*The poisons will be absorbed trough their skin and mouths, they will destroy their minds and reproductive systems.
*From all this, their children will be born dead, and we will conceal this information.
*The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them, in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear.
*We must be ingenious in dispensing the poisons for they can see far.
*We will teach them that the poisons are good, with fun images and musical tones.
*Those they look up to will help. We will enlist them to push our poisons.
*They will see our products being used in film and will grow accustomed to them and will never know their true effect.
*When they give birth we will inject poisons into the blood of their children and convince them its for their help.
*We will start early on, when their minds are young, we will target their children with what children love most, sweet things.
*When their teeth decay we will fill them with metals that will kill their mind and steal their future.
*When their ability to learn has been affected, we will create medicine that will make them sicker and cause other diseases for which we will create yet more medicine.
*We will render them docile and weak before us by our power.
*They will grow depressed, slow and obese, and when they come to us for help, we will give them more poison.
*We will focus their attention toward money and material goods so they many never connect with their inner self.
*We will distract them with fornication, external pleasures and games so they may never be one with the oneness of it all.
*Their minds will belong to us and they will do as we say.
*If they refuse we shall find ways to implement mind-altering technology into their lives. We will use fear as our weapon.
*We will establish their governments and establish opposites within.
*We will own both sides.
*We will always hide our objective but carry out our plan.
*They will perform the labor for us and we shall prosper from their toil.
*Our families will never mix with theirs.
*Our blood must be pure always, for it is the way.
*We will make them kill each other when it suits us.
*We will keep them separated from the oneness by dogma and religion.
*We will control all aspects of their lives and tell them what to think and how.
*We will guide them kindly and gently letting them think they are guiding themselves.
*We will foment animosity between them through our factions.
*When a light shall shine among them, we shall extinguish it by ridicule, or death, whichever suits us best.
*We will make them rip each other's hearts apart and kill their own children.
*We will accomplish this by using hate as our ally, anger as our friend.
*The hate will blind them totally, and never shall they see that from their conflicts we emerge as their rulers.
*They will be busy killing each other.
*They will bathe in their own blood and kill their neighbors for as long as we see fit.
*We will benefit greatly from this, for they will not see us, for they cannot see us.
*We will continue to prosper from their wars and their deaths.
*We shall repeat this over and over until our ultimate goal is accomplished.
*We will continue to make them live in fear and anger though images and sounds.
*We will use all the tools we have to accomplish this.
*The tools will be provided by their labor.
*We will make them hate themselves and their neighbors.
*We will always hide the divine truth from them, that we are all one.
*This they must never know!
*They must never know that color is an illusion, they must always think they are not equal.
*Drop by drop, drop by drop we will advance our goal.
*We will take over their land, resources and wealth to exercise total control over them.
*We will deceive them into accepting laws that will steal the little freedom they will have.
*We will establish a money system that will imprison them forever, keeping them and their children in debt.
*When they shall ban together, we shall accuse them of crimes and present a different story to the world for we shall own all the media.
*We will use our media to control the flow of information and their sentiment in our favor.
*When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for they are less than that.
*They will be helpless to do anything for they will have no weapons.
*We will recruit some of their own to carry out our plans, we will promise them eternal life, but eternal life they will never have for they are not of us.
*The recruits will be called "initiates" and will be indoctrinated to believe false rites of passage to higher realms.
*Members of these groups will think they are one with us never knowing the truth.
*They must never learn this truth for they will turn against us.
*For their work they will be rewarded with earthly things and great titles, but never will they become immortal and join us, never will they receive the light and travel the stars.
*They will never reach the higher realms, for the killing of their own kind will prevent passage to the realm of enlightenment.
*This they will never know.
*The truth will be hidden in their face, so close they will not be able to focus on it until its too late.
*Oh yes, so grand the illusion of freedom will be, that they will never know they are our slaves.
*When all is in place, the reality we will have created for them will own them.
*This reality will be their prison.
*They will live in self-delusion.
*When our goal is accomplished a new era of domination will begin.
*Their minds will be bound by their beliefs, the beliefs we have established from time immemorial.
*But if they ever find out they are our equal, we shall perish then. THIS THEY MUST NEVER KNOW.
*If they ever find out that together they can vanquish us, they will take action.
*They must never, ever find out what we have done, for if they do, we shall have no place to run, for it will be easy to see who we are once the veil has fallen.
*Our actions will have revealed who we are and they will hunt us down and no person shall give us shelter.
*This is the secret covenant by which we shall live the rest of our present and future lives, for this reality will transcend many generations and life spans.
*This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood. We, the ones who from heaven to earth came.
*This covenant must NEVER, EVER be known to exist.
*It must NEVER, EVER be written or spoken of for if it is, the consciousness it will spawn will release the fury of the PRIME CREATOR upon us and we shall be cast to the depths from whence we came and remain there until the end time of infinity itself.

1. Don't ask where I got this, I will not answer
2. Do not try to verbally contest me for I will not address you.
3. Skeptics will be met with silence.


enoyreve puekaw .s.p

*This covenant must NEVER, EVER be known to exist.
*It must NEVER, EVER be written or spoken of for if it is, the consciousness it will spawn will release the fury of the PRIME CREATOR upon us and we shall be cast to the depths from whence we came and remain there until the end time of infinity itself.

Ooops!!! Some Fury Coming Someones way!

I guess in the internet age it is hard to keep secrets :shock:

Who ever wrote it has already been cast into the depths, Poor Peeps! :embarrassed:

You life is in imminent danger, Jeff777.

Doubtful.

Why would you not tell where you got this? But anyway, this is common knowledge to the people who think. Nothing new really. I think this document is fake, but what it describes is real, as strange as that sounds. I doubt this will change. If it couldn't change in the past, it really won't change now. Yes people are smarter than a farmer 1000 years ago, but not that smart, as we can see for ourselves.

These are all over the internet. Lol. For example: http://www.librarising.com/conspiracy/covenant.html

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

*This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood. We, the ones who from heaven to earth came.

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If you're familiar with some themes in ancient religions, you'll find out that in nearly every one there's mention of "beings from the heavens descending down and interbreeding with man" Zulu's call them chitahuri the Sumerians named them Annunuki, the bible named them nephilim etc...

If you buy into this, you'll see where the "divine right to rule" came into being and why societies are so obsessed with bloodlines.

I can't say I'll buy into such religious things. But it is very interesting. Same themes all around the world, strange drawings in deserts, model airplanes, gods from space, mounted dinosaurs etc.

It really doesn't matter if it's Anunaki or someone else. To me the way we act is the same other beings act. Monkies have wars too, they kill eacother, they fight for power and the females... Existance is just a fight for survival and evolution. We are the next stage and where we'll take it is totaly up to nature (that's us I guess).

Its probably fake because they would never actually admit that everyone is equal. They all think they are above everyone else.

That Secret Covenant describes almost everything you need to know about illuminati and the new NWO. Before talking about its legitness, lets look and compare its substance, with our current world. As you see, it is really happening.
The question isWhat can we do about it?

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Originally Posted by born_2_kill

What can we do about it?

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Communism!

Ranma187 (an active member on DV) is well aware of the issues plaugeing mankind by the "men behind the curtain". He addresses many issues on youtube, youtube his username ranma187.

I've looked into a lot of stuff about the Illuminati. My general stance is that, while I would not go on record as saying I believe it all (because I'm not sure that I do), I do believe that those who do starkly believe it are probably closer to the truth than those that scoff at the idea, without doing their own research, and laugh at the "ignorance of the believers."

One only has to look at the state of the world, degeneration of modern mainstream cultures (both mentally and physically) and the illogical nature of most geopolitical concepts to find reason for seriously considering the possibility.

Lol, sounds like something my old math teacher would have written :P...

It's hard to believe that the NWO/Illuminati would have something leak on the internet. But it is very interesting...

It's hard to believe someone would have such rules or scriptures (whatever you want to call them). Basically they are not very convincing. The nwo/illuminati know exactly what they want and don't need such things written down like they are a bunch of idiots.

Actually they could be laughing at us, how primitive we are. This Covenant could had been leaked by one of the blood lines, just to warn the humanity of what awaits them in future.

As we all know, internet has no limits. In todays world, all the information is right under your palms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GestaltAlteration

It's hard to believe that the NWO/Illuminati would have something leak on the internet. But it is very interesting...

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Superficially, it might be kind of hard to imagine, but really think about it. It only takes a single person, whether a rogue member or an eavesdropper, to tell the world about anything going on within an organization, especially when that organization has been around, supposedly, for ages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

It's hard to believe someone would have such rules or scriptures (whatever you want to call them). Basically they are not very convincing. The nwo/illuminati know exactly what they want and don't need such things written down like they are a bunch of idiots.

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Unwritten code has no chance of surviving, over the years.

What would organized religion be, without the scrolls, Bibles and Qur'ans to sustain them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Superficially, it might be kind of hard to imagine, but really think about it. It only takes a single person, whether a rogue member or an eavesdropper, to tell the world about anything going on within an organization, especially when that organization has been around, supposedly, for ages.



Unwritten code has no chance of surviving, over the years.

What would organized religion be, without the scrolls, Bibles and Qur'ans to sustain them?

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I agree with Oneironaut, remember the guy who snuck into the Bohemian Grove with a video camera hidden in his baggage? He managed to catch a giant ritual taking place with world leaders dressed in white robes and a sacrifice of a human body along with the worship of a 40 foot owl named Molech (I don't know if the sacrifice was a real body or just for appeal). When the footage was taken public, some of the world leaders said it was just an "act" or something along those lines, basically saying that it was all fun and games. I think not. :nono: Shit gets leaked sometimes. Not only that, but born_2_kill is right about how they're doing stuff right under our noses. checkout a satellite aerial view map of Washington DC, you have an owl and a pentagram in the mappings interwoven by the streets.

Goathead/Satanism (Right at the bottom of the goathead is none other than the white house itself, the command center dedicated to the safety and well being of every american, and the liberation of oppressed foreigners :))
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/7...ntagram0yd.jpg

Owl, Molech, probably the same 30 ft one from the bohemian grove, with the nations capital in the center.
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...ington_owl.jpg

Draw a hexagram on the back of a dollar, see the words Mason in clear view?
http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.f...amid+mason.gif

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.f...h+cojailed.jpg

Penta = five.

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Originally Posted by pj

Penta = five.

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Thanks pj :P

Though it still applies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...y/EyePenta.jpg

You know it's funny. most religion is just Sun worship!

you know the word "Amen" that people say after prayer? the Etymology of that word comes from the Egyptian god: Amun Ra! people have no idea that when christians say "Amen", they think they are praising jesus when really... they are just giving praise to the egyptian god Amun Ra..... LOL

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Originally Posted by ranma187

You know it's funny. most religion is just Sun worship!

you know the word "Amen" that people say after prayer? the Etymology of that word comes from the Egyptian god: Amun Ra! people have no idea that when christians say "Amen", they think they are praising jesus when really... they are just giving praise to the egyptian god Amun Ra..... LOL

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Or allowing it to mean "let it be so." :p Just because people say "amen" doesn't mean they're worshiping the sun. Words are as the mind thinks them.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Though it still applies.

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*grin*

It's just that if you are going to be a (fellow) conspiratorial whacko, you better get the basics straight.

:D

http://media.canada.com/35e2c96f-34d...29c/bmo375.jpg


Is it me or does the Bank Of Montreal logo look a lot like the top o an owl face with pyramid eyes???

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Originally Posted by pj

It's just that if you are going to be a (fellow) conspiratorial whacko, you better get the basics straight.

:D

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Haha. Agreed. :cheers:

The mind interprets the word as it was taught to. But the real meaning behind amen is what ram said. We all say, Amen not knowing what it really stands for.

Ram : the Bank of Montreal has a number 13 in it. The 13 blood lines

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6539/13lf5.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ranma187

You know it's funny. most religion is just Sun worship!

you know the word "Amen" that people say after prayer? the Etymology of that word comes from the Egyptian god: Amun Ra! people have no idea that when christians say "Amen", they think they are praising jesus when really... they are just giving praise to the egyptian god Amun Ra..... LOL

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This tapestry can be located in the vatican. Most people never question where symbols come from or what they mean. See if you find anything suspicious...
http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.f...seeing_eye.jpg
Hm, why is a vatican tapestry flaunting an egyptian pyramid with the all-seeing eye of horus (an egyptian sun god) on it? The "sun" of God perhaps? :hrm:

The jews settled down in Egypt for some 400 years. I don't think it's that that odd or groundbreaking that amen came from amun.

Fascinating Jeff o-o

Horus Was the egyptian Sun god. It was say that during the day Horus (the sun) took 12 steps across the sky. our day is divided into two sets of 12 hours. the word Hours is also very similar to "Horus". There are 12 steps in the program of AA The symbol for AA is also a circle with a triangle in the middle of it.

The thing is over the time AA has been around (since the 1930's) it has collected a stupendous amount of money from collection plates (much like church). all the money funds the headquarters in new york. I wonder if a lot of that money really goes to some of the power Elite. Is AA a front for the illuminati? xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ranma187

http://media.canada.com/35e2c96f-34d...29c/bmo375.jpg


Is it me or does the Bank Of Montreal logo look a lot like the top o an owl face with pyramid eyes???

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It's you, there's such a thing as looking too far... Although this Kleenex box next to me reminds me of a pagan altar for ritual sacrifices, it's even rectangular!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Superficially, it might be kind of hard to imagine, but really think about it. It only takes a single person, whether a rogue member or an eavesdropper, to tell the world about anything going on within an organization, especially when that organization has been around, supposedly, for ages.



Unwritten code has no chance of surviving, over the years.

What would organized religion be, without the scrolls, Bibles and Qur'ans to sustain them?

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Actually oneironaut My dad read about some culture which i think may have been Aboriginals of some land. Their entire history was passed down verbally for hundreds of years without one word being changed.

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Originally Posted by ranma187

Actually oneironaut My dad read about some culture which i think may have been Aboriginals of some land. Their entire history was passed down verbally for hundreds of years without one word being changed.

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That's very impressive (if true). However, one must ask himself; If there was no static record of the original material, how do we know that it was passed-down without alteration? I'm not saying it's not possible, but if it's explained in the text your father read, I'd like to read it, too.

Columbia studios recently added chemtrails to their company logo. Some subliminal message to make people think these things are natural? Many movie studios are doing this.

the old
http://www.star-collector.net/images/columbia82.jpghttp://animalmakers.com/AMITestimoni...tures-logo.jpg

The new
http://www.threestooges.com/news/ima...ioColumbia.jpghttp://content.answers.com/main/cont..._1992_logo.jpg

You mean H2O-trails? Anyways, all I see are cirrostratus clouds...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

Columbia studios recently added chemtrails to their company logo. Some subliminal message to make people think these things are natural? Many movie studios are doing this.

the old
http://www.star-collector.net/images/columbia82.jpghttp://animalmakers.com/AMITestimoni...tures-logo.jpg

The new
http://www.threestooges.com/news/ima...ioColumbia.jpghttp://content.answers.com/main/cont..._1992_logo.jpg

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*They will see our products being used in film and will grow accustomed to them and will never know their true effect.

*The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them, in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear.

*They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn.

Spart:

From what I understand, regular contrails dissipate after a few minutes. The chemtrails that are alleged can linger in the air for hours at a time.

According to experienced pilots, genuine vapor trails only form under certain condition, low altitudes, and last a minute to a minute and a half tops.

The one I see in my city last all day. Several independent sources have analysed these emissions and found a mix of chemical and biological components. The perfect mix to make identifying the source of illness difficult.

They contain fibers smaller than asbestos, like those in Morgellons disease. Red blood cells, fungus, parasitic eggs. Also various metal particle, such as Barium. Barium it's self has peculiar properties, in particular, it appears to demonstrate Non-Locality in it's crystal form.

See this article "Alice in Barium Titanate land": http://www.halexandria.org/dward147.htm
(They've since solved the refaction index problem mentioned at the beginning of that article)

oneironaut, I was wrong. It was the celts. The info can be found in the book: A brief History of The Celts, by Petre Berresford Ellis.

Another thing that really creeps me out are the commercials I hear on the radio about a shot for young girls that supposedly prevents cervical cancer.

THen today I heard another government sponsored radio commercial advising that people keep enough canned food and bottled water in the house to last 72 hours. WTF is up with that?

I swear I saw that on youtube posted by Mystic7.

You know, the one with the male and female split personality syndrome?

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I swear I saw that on youtube posted by Mystic7.

You know, the one with the male and female split personality syndrome?

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o.O ..what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Spart:

From what I understand, regular contrails dissipate after a few minutes. The chemtrails that are alleged can linger in the air for hours at a time.

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Here's a post I made a while back (which no one responded to I might add).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

Are you serious? OK, let me clear things up... A jet engine functions by taking in air, compressing it, combining it with kerosene and then igniting the mixture. The gas, now superheated and under immense pressure is shot out the back through the nozzle and, in accordance with Newton's 3rd law of motion, this propels the plane forward. Now in the back of the engine, the surrounding air becomes extremely hot, when it cools (if the temperature, air pressure and humidity are right, this usually occurs at high altitudes), the heated water molecules found in the air will condense and then crystallize into minute ice particles. So these contrails are basically nothing more then floating ice (artificial cirrus clouds to be precise) which last as long as any other cloud would. The reason they start to form behind the engine is because that's how long it takes for the air to cool, as can be seen in this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ngined.arp.jpg

There also exists a form of contrail that is found on the wingtips. It is created by the pressure differential that is found in the wingtip vortex. However, this kind of contrail is extremely hard to see at a distance, this is what it looks like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...p_vortices.jpg

It is also possible for propeller planes to produce contrails, since they also eject hot exhaust from their engines, as can be seen here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...-contrails.jpg

It is also worth considering that every single spot that can be spared in a plane is used for storing fuel, useless or inefficient use of space and weight is an aeronautical engineer's worse nightmare. Lastly, there has been speculation about the effect that contrails have on the weather. After the 9/11 attacks (after which all planes in North America were temporarily grounded), meteorologists noticed a slight increase in temparture in regions of heavy air traffic due to the increase in solar radiation received.

So I hope that quashed any conspiracy theories, I'm really much more concerned about the stuff spewing out of coal power plants than this :roll:...

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To sum it up, what spews out the back of a jet engine is water vapour and greenhouse gases. The gases dissipate in the atmosphere and the vapour turns into very small ice crystals (identical to those found in cirrus clouds). The contrail is composed only of these ice crystals, which last as long as any other cirrus cloud would (the idea that they last a few minutes or that they generaly form at low altitude is false). There is no such thing as "chemtrails" unless you consider water to be a chemical or you are referring to a Vietnam War era C-130 dropping agent O on a forest. Planes burn kerosene, not radioactive, biological something something...

watch this, chemtrail ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDnWNMI4ZO0

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6103/chem1oc7.jpg
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6910/chem2ya9.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1909/chem3qu6.jpg



its obvious, we are sprayed like bunch of fleeks.. oo boy do i smell something!
and lol no, its not a damn contrail! ahahah

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Originally Posted by born_2_kill

watch this, chemtrail ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDnWNMI4ZO0

its obvious, we are sprayed like bunch of fleeks.. oo boy do i smell something!
and lol no, its not a damn contrail! ahahah

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I didn't see anything in that, ugh... "youtube video" to prove your point. Although I did see what whoever made that video was trying to point out as abnormal, so...

Some of the images are obviously fake.

The form of the contrail varies greatly depending on weather conditions, it can be thin, thick, hazy, defined, etc.

I already explained why contrails don't form right behind the engine (cooling period).

That plane with a boom on it's tail is a military air to air refuelling tanker, probably a KC-135 or a KC-10.

Certain areas (usually major cities) get extremely high densities of air traffic (and thus heavy contrail densities) because they are situated near VORs, which are the sky's equivalent of an intersection.

Circular contrails indicate an airplane in a holding pattern.

Those multicoloured clouds are called "fire rainbows", Moonbeam has one in her sig.

Abrupt ends and beginnings of contrails are most likely caused by thermals or some other microclimatic event.

Those modules at the back of some airplane wings are part of the flap system.

That pretty much covers it... Anything else?

if ur a American citizen, than have a look at this :
BILL HR2977, 107th CONGRESS

It was introduced in Whitehouse :

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

Source : http://www.nwbotanicals.org/mediawat...htm#chemtrails

wow, some of you guys are disturbingly paranoid, but not because you believe that an organisation like the illuminatti exists. Generally speaking, the idea of a secret-ish organisation having an extremely large amount of power is very plausible. But the way in which you find evidence of their existence in anything and nothing is fucking rediculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by born_2_kill

if ur a American citizen, than have a look at this :
BILL HR2977, 107th CONGRESS

It was introduced in Whitehouse :

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

Source : http://www.nwbotanicals.org/mediawat...htm#chemtrails

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Funny, you left out the part that says that that bill was to ban such weapons.

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A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.

[...]

SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.

[...]

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:

(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--

(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);

(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or

(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

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admit its existance, the gouvernment knows and no they didnt ban it.

Why would the government ban or try to ban something that according to them doesn't exist?

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

Why would the government ban try to ban something that according to them doesn't exist?

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My question, exactly. I was just about the post that bill, but I saw that born beat me to it. *snaps his fingers*

ethen:
I'm sure you understand that peoples' perspective on things is usually the sum of their experiences/input on the topic, not just the single pieces of "evidence." This being the case, it is much more likely that you're not going to understand exactly why someone sees evidence in something that you don't find as evidential, when you first see it. If you don't understand why they see evidence in it, it's better to ask them how it is they came to that conclusion, based on that single piece of evidence (with the chance of them adding to it, and giving you a broader perspective as to how they see it) than being a dick about it. Just some food for thought. :P

Ok, why are clouds a hidden reference to chemtrails? Is it because of the torch in her hand and what that references? Is the "B" really just a "13" because its the B of a promanent bank?

Or maybe, just maybe, people might be reading too far into things...because YES, there is a "too far". And maybe im not going to be another easy "your just too ignorant to understand" person to blow off.

Because thats way easier than actually making sense of some of these connections, isn't it? Wait, let me guess, the fact there is a reasonable and yet contradictory explanation behind most of it is all part of their plan...

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Originally Posted by ethen

wow, some of you guys are disturbingly paranoid, but not because you believe that an organisation like the illuminatti exists. Generally speaking, the idea of a secret-ish organisation having an extremely large amount of power is very plausible. But the way in which you find evidence of their existence in anything and nothing is fucking rediculous.

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Okay, then why are we paranoid? It's known that the government can hear anything you say, whether on the phone or not. So watch out. They are just trying to make it even easier to track you with thesee cards/chips/whatever it will be, which I don't need. I would never be stupid enough to get a "NID".

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Originally Posted by Michael

Okay, then why are we paranoid? It's known that the government can hear anything you say, whether on the phone or not. So watch out. They are just trying to make it even easier to track you with thesee cards/chips/whatever it will be, which I don't need. I would never be stupid enough to get a "NID".

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I have yet to get a source that verifies that these NIDs are actually going to have tracking devices in them.

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Originally Posted by ethen

I have yet to get a source that verifies that these NIDs are actually going to have tracking devices in them.

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Doesn't matter if they do or not. It would still make it easier to track you. With tracking devices, it would just be too easy.

I posted this earlier today:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Taking away human rights is still a recent event and protesting the NID is just the opportunity Americans all finally have to say no to all the BS the federal government has been trying to pull.

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But what rights do we have now that we will loose if we get NIDs?

I mean, if you are going to protest stuff like this, that’s perfectly fine. I'm all for challenging the government when its warranted...but don't do it just to do it. Try to accomplish something a bit more constructive than defiance for defiance's sake. Like I said before, we already have national ID's. Protesting this isn't going to change that. We already need ID's to drive, and protesting this isn't going to change that.

So what's the point in protesting this, seriously?

I may just be missing something, but as I understand the issue, all this is is the consolidation of several different types of IDs *we already have* into one. There is nothing dubious about that, its just more efficient. And to tell you the truth, I’ve never seen anyone complain about SSNs or needing a license to drive until the idea of NIDs...which makes me wonder why suddenly people seem to act like this stuff is a "new and serious threat to our rights" even though this level of citizen-documentation has been around long before people our age had even been born. It’s almost as if this anti-government mentality is just another trend the youth is buying into.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the government, and I do believe that our rights are slowly being eroded away. I just think protesting this specific issue is a waist of time and energy because, even if people somehow managed to keep the government from making NIDs mandatory, it doesn't actually change anything. We're all already in the system to the same extent we would be with NIDs. If you want to counteract the erosion of our rights, do something that is actually going to make a difference.

For your average citizen, this isn't going to change anything. Your SSN can be flagged and your driver's license can be revoked without your permission nowadays, so no change there. The only changes will be that undocumented citizens are going to have a MUCH harder time surviving in this country (since the NID can't be easily forged), and I imagine that this would be the same for wanted criminals.

So, in what situations exactly would this ID take your rights away? You no longer have the right to get a job if your a wanted criminal or an illegal immigrant? Ok. You can no longer legally drive if your a wanted criminal or an illegal immigrant? Fine. And how exactly does this harm your average citizen?

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Originally Posted by ethen

The card doesn't allow the government any more power over the citizens than they already have. What it does do is allow the government to make it much harder to be an undocumented citizen and survive in this country, and the same would probably be true for criminal with warrants.






Paranoia seems like one of the most effective tools for manipulating the populations, and makes me wonder if the illuminatti has as much control over the world as people seem to think, and if they "control all sides", then stuff like that video seems suspect for foul play in itself, no?

Nothing would distract us more or destroy us faster than ourselves fighting each other as "they" sit back and watch...

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Originally Posted by ethen

Ok, why are clouds a hidden reference to chemtrails?

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Clouds, in general, aren't. If you seriously give the allegations of chemtrails the time of day enough to look into them and try to disprove them, you might get suspicious when you see them behaving the way that the allegations say is "unusual." So far, personally, I've heard many allegations of the strange nature of these alleged chemtrails, and one (Spart's explanation as to why they are contrails). I can't speak for anyone else here, but to ask the question you did (which is a perfectly legit question, and will give you more information than coming across the way you did), that's the only answer I have, so far.

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Originally Posted by ethen

Is it because of the torch in her hand and what that references?

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That's called a "straw man."

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Originally Posted by ethen

Is the "B" really just a "13" because its the B of a promanent bank?

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Actually, I think that one was an M, but that remains to be seen. That's the first time I've heard of that particular theory, though, so I don't really ascribe to that one either.

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Originally Posted by ethen

Or maybe, just maybe, people might be reading too far into things...because YES, there is a "too far".

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I don't think there's been anyone here who has stated otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ethen

And maybe im not going to be another easy "your just too ignorant to understand" person to blow off.

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Who's blowing you off?

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Originally Posted by ethen

Because thats way easier than actually making sense of some of these connections, isn't it? Wait, let me guess, the fact there is a reasonable and yet contradictory explanation behind most of it is all part of their plan...

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I'm not a fan of Occam's Razor, especially in the area of human, social affairs.

[Edit: Oh, and regarding NID's. They may not have "tracking devices" in them, but think about it. If, over time, EVERYTHING that we do, electronically, can be stored on these cards, including monetary transactions (when we pay for gas, when we go to the grocery store, when we're ID'd to get in the club, the movies, etc.), how would they NOT be able to track your movements? All they'd have to do is look up when the last time your card was swiped which, over time, could be 10 times a day. Perfect way to track. Not full-proof, by any means, but more effective than what we have now, with simple credit card transactions.]

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Originally Posted by born_2_kill

admit its existance, the gouvernment knows and no they didnt ban it.

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

Why would the government ban or try to ban something that according to them doesn't exist?

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There's also a treaty against using and testing weapons in Antarctica and against the militarization of the Moon. Does this mean that somebody strapped a laser to the moon once or that the penguins should fear being nuked? Of course not, it's just called covering all your bases. And I like how no one seemed to care that the "banned" part was carefully omitted in Born 2 Kill's post, you guys are starting to grasp at straws...

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Clouds, in general, aren't. If you seriously give the allegations of chemtrails the time of day enough to look into them and try to disprove them, you might get suspicious when you see them behaving the way that the allegations say is "unusual." So far, personally, I've heard many allegations of the strange nature of these alleged chemtrails, and one (Spart's explanation as to why they are contrails). I can't speak for anyone else here, but to ask the question you did (which is a perfectly legit question, and will give you more information than coming across the way you did), that's the only answer I have, so far.

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You see, its not the notion of chemtrails that is absurd, its how any reference to anything that even remotely appears similar to them is a "sign".

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's called a "straw man."

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How is that a strawman? The torch is a very important symbol in the context of this theory. Wait...how do I know more about this than someone who is advocating it?

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Actually, I think that one was an M, but that remains to be seen. That's the first time I've heard of that particular theory, though, so I don't really ascribe to that one either.

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I admit, I don't know much about this specific one either...

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I don't think there's been anyone here who has stated otherwise.

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i'll quote it for you when I find it (seriously).

[edit] sorry, misread spartiates post

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

there's such a thing as looking too far...

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Who's blowing you off?

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Maybe I was over reacting, but often people will blow off those who don't buy into this theory as ignorant sheeple who don't believe because they don't know enough about the subject...which just so happens to give them the benefit of the doubt without them having to justify even the most outrageous claims. I appologise if you didn't make this assumption about me, it felt like I was about to be overlooked as yet another "sleeping" individual who's not competent enough on the subject to question such claims...

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

There's also a treaty against using and testing weapons in Antarctica and against the militarization of the Moon. Does this mean that somebody strapped a laser to the moon once or that the penguins should fear being nuked? Of course not, it's just called covering all your bases. And I like how no one seemed to care that the "banned" part was carefully omitted in Born 2 Kill's post, you guys are starting to grasp at straws...

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The banned part was simply irrelevant. I made a post about this same bill, ages ago. What's interesting is that they would put a ban on something that so "absolutely ludicrous" that people simply hear about the idea and scoff at it. Testing weapons in Antarctica is extremely plausible. The militarization of the moon is extremely plausible. For someone to laugh at the possibility of those things happening (and I'm not saying you are (...are you?) but hear me out) shows that they really don't understand what they are talking about.

Again, the point sticks: Why would you "ban" something that is not likely to ever happen. Do you see them banning telekinesis as a weapon? Do you see them banning superluminal artillery? telepathy? If we are going on the wings of the impossible, then that would be considered "covering all your bases," wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

There's also a treaty against using and testing weapons in Antarctica and against the militarization of the Moon. Does this mean that somebody strapped a laser to the moon once or that the penguins should fear being nuked? Of course not, it's just called covering all your bases. And I like how no one seemed to care that the "banned" part was carefully omitted in Born 2 Kill's post, you guys are starting to grasp at straws...

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I haven't said I believe in anything, the only thing I've done was point out the obvious and you seem to merely take things at face value. If your government told you that the sky was radiating a mist that would grant you eternal life, you would probably sooner believe it coming from them than if it came from a third party perspective. There are no straws to be grasped, I am taking what you are saying and sifting through it and merely asking questions, when did that become straw grasping?

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Again, the point sticks: Why would you "ban" something that is not likely to ever happen. Do you see them banning telekinesis as a weapon? Do you see them banning superluminal artillery? telepathy? If we are going on the wings of the impossible, then that would be considered "covering all your bases," wouldn't it?

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:chuckle:

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Originally Posted by ethen

How is that a strawman? The torch is a very important symbol in the context of this theory. Wait...how do I know more about this than someone who is advocating it?

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I'm not advocating the theory. I am simply presenting a base for it, to the extent that I have seen. It could all be bullshit, as far as I know, and I am not willing to state otherwise, at this point in time. BUT, I know nothing about the torch being a part of anything that has to do with chemtrails, so if you do, please enlighten me, and I will retract the strawman comment.

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Originally Posted by ethen

Maybe I was over reacting, but often people will blow off those who don't buy into this theory as ignorant sheeple who don't believe because they don't know enough about the subject...which just so happens to give them the benefit of the doubt without them having to justify even the most outrageous claims. I appologise if you didn't make this assumption about me, it felt like I was about to be overlooked as yet another "sleeping" individual who's not competent enough on the subject to question such claims...

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I only call people "sheeple" if I know for a fact that they are being deluded, and I'm not one that quickly assigns the label "fact" to any theory, unless I've got some pretty hardcore proof that it's true. I'd rather actually explore all points of view on the subject before throwing insults at you for your own.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

The banned part was simply irrelevant. I made a post about this same bill, ages ago. What's interesting is that they would put a ban on something that so "absolutely ludicrous" that people simply hear about the idea and scoff at it. Testing weapons in Antarctica is extremely plausible. The militarization of the moon is extremely plausible. For someone to laugh at the possibility of those things happening (and I'm not saying you are (...are you?) but hear me out) shows that they really don't understand what they are talking about.

Again, the point sticks: Why would you "ban" something that is not likely to ever happen. Do you see them banning telekinesis as a weapon? Do you see them banning superluminal artillery? telepathy? If we are going on the wings of the impossible, then that would be considered "covering all your bases," wouldn't it?

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I'm not saying it's impossible to use aircraft to spread so-called "chemtrails". The use of airplanes as means of delivery for chemical and biological weapons has already been proven (heck, the pesticide spray from a crop duster can be considered a "chemtrail"). I'm just saying that it's not happening right now, and a ban on such weapons should make that all the more obvious.

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

I haven't said I believe in anything, the only thing I've done was point out the obvious and you seem to merely take things at face value. If your government told you that the sky was radiating a mist that would grant you eternal life, you would probably sooner believe it coming from them than if it came from a third party perspective. There are no straws to be grasped, I am taking what you are saying and sifting through it and merely asking questions, when did that become straw grasping?

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It became straw grasping when Born 2 Kill neglected to mention that the bill was calling for a ban (did that bill pass anyways?).



And also, that bill bans everything from earthquake machines to extraterrestrial weapons, so yeah, I would say they are covering all their bases :P...

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I'm not advocating the theory. I am simply presenting a base for it, to the extent that I have seen. It could all be bullshit, as far as I know, and I am not willing to state otherwise, at this point in time. BUT, I know nothing about the torch being a part of anything that has to do with chemtrails, so if you do, please enlighten me, and I will retract the strawman comment.

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This is a just a quick copy/paste off of one of the first results I got on google.

"Their most used symbols is the lighted torch, the symbol of knowledge and the Sun. When an initiate reaches a certain level in the pyramid they are said to be illuminated, more symbolism of the lighted torch. One of the recurring stories in the ancient world is of a hero figure who takes fire (knowledge) from the gods and gives it to the people - the chosen few people, that is. The Watchers (extraterrestrials) called Azazel and Shemyaza were among those who gave advanced knowledge to humans, according to the Book of Enoch."

Symbol appears on the statue of liberty, olympics, world trade center memorial, numerous crests with supposed significance, etc. Lot of stuff on this one.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I only call people "sheeple" if I know for a fact that they are being deluded, and I'm not one that quickly assigns the label "fact" to any theory, unless I've got some pretty hardcore proof that it's true. I'd rather actually explore all points of view on the subject before throwing insults at you for your own.

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Thats good.

I think the point O is trying to make is why "cover bases" such as "extraterrestial weapons" if there are no bases to be covered? If I started preparing myself for a giant meteor to hit earth in 2008 (metaphorically speaking) and people asked me what I was doing and I told them "I'm just covering me bases" would that make much sens? Obviously there has to be SOMETHING going on if they even FEEL they have to "cover their bases".

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

I think the point O is trying to make is why "cover bases" such as "extraterrestial weapons" if there are no bases to be covered? If I started preparing myself for a giant meteor to hit earth in 2008 (metaphorically speaking) and people asked me what I was doing and I told them "I'm just covering me bases" would that make much sens? Obviously there has to be SOMETHING going on if they even FEEL they have to "cover their bases".

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Uhm, that's politics, if you omit the seemingly impossible, someone's going to find a loophole and take advantage of it. Kind of like why the EULA on a new program can empty a new ink cartridge.

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

Uhm, that's politics, if you omit the seemingly impossible, someone's going to find a loophole and take advantage of it. Kind of like why the EULA on a new program can empty a new ink cartridge.

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but..."extraterrestrial weapons"...?

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

but..."extraterrestrial weapons"...?

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A hundred years from now, the Chinese mine the ore on an asteroid and use it to create shell casings. Boom, there's your extraterrestrial weapon; it's far-fetched, but then again, since when do politicians have to worry about plausibility...

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Originally Posted by Spartiate

A hundred years from now, the Chinese mine the ore on an asteroid and use it to create shell casings. Boom, there's your extraterrestrial weapon; it's far-fetched, but then again, since when do politicians have to worry about plausibility...

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Lmao :chuckle:

Godamn. It's blatently obvious that it's all metaphoric. Whether this is a true document or something written as a gag. The latter of the to the most likely. It applies to our times. It could be about the American government or any Government. On the other hand it could also be about the Gods. Either way the poisons he refers to are fast food, chemicals, and the medicines that only cause us more harm. They guide us because they make the laws. And it is right, if we all were to rise up together we would outnumber the wicked tenfold. But, it will never happen. The same way 100 slaves on a plantation were almost always completely cluesless to the fact that there was but one man on that plantation controlling them.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's very impressive (if true). However, one must ask himself; If there was no static record of the original material, how do we know that it was passed-down without alteration? I'm not saying it's not possible, but if it's explained in the text your father read, I'd like to read it, too.

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I believe these people were in India like 4000 years ago. They passed down their sacred text (Vede?) from generation to generation, only by memory of a select few (is this gramatically correct...select few :P?). I guess if your purpose in life is remembering some thousand words, then it's not so impossible.

We need to look at the world as a whole, in order to understand their true intentions.
How primitive do you have to be, to not see the resemblance. How ignorant do you have to be, to reject its existence. Have you ever asked your self if the bible is real? and not some random BS? , why not ask for proof? , because there is none.

The text, was written by someone out there, who decided to open our eyes, at least on a level, where we would accept something we never thought before.
The person might have been killed, the day after he showed it to the public, and we are here, reading it.. and asking for proof? the proof is around you. Its all real, and its taking place right between your eyes. Have you asked your self, if indeed what you were taught ur whole life was true? none of my professors knew the answer. Do you know it?

Look at your self in the mirror, and ask your self that question. And than look at the world as a whole. Do you see something?
How long will we kill each other? is this why we were born? what value do we have than?

Critical thinking is what matters most. Thats what they dont want to see. Will you be a sheep for the rest of your little life?
Will you surrender your life? will you replace your life with paper ($) that has nothing behind it?

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Originally Posted by born_2_kill

Critical thinking is what matters most

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what, except for when it comes to questioning the validity of these theories? People are just supposed to accept it like the sheeple you say they shouldn't be?

I don't think so.

Those who buy into this stuff because its what they are being spoon-fed by poorly made youtube propaganda videos (as opposed to those who do so for justified reasons) are still sheeple, are still asleep, and are still just assuming the information they are being fed is legitimate. Nothing up here *taps head* has changed.

People who demand proof for claims, be them the governments OR those who challenge the government, are the ONLY ones who aren't sheep...because unlike this double standard I keep comming across, questioning these sort of theories is exactly what these theories are telling us we should do. To think critically about it all, not just one side of it. Anything other than that is completely missing the point

[/rant]

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Originally Posted by ethen

what, except for when it comes to questioning the validity of these theories? People are just supposed to accept it like the sheeple you say they shouldn't be?

I don't think so.

Those who buy into this stuff because its what they are being spoon-fed by poorly made youtube propaganda videos (as opposed to those who do so for justified reasons) are still sheeple, are still asleep, and are still just assuming the information they are being fed is legitimate. Nothing up here *taps head* has changed.

People who demand proof for claims, be them the governments OR those who challenge the government, are the ONLY ones who aren't sheep...because unlike this double standard I keep comming across, questioning these sort of theories is exactly what these theories are telling us we should do. To think critically about it all, not just one side of it. Anything other than that is completely missing the point

[/rant]

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Noone is forcing you to believe anything. I myself approach things that come off as farfetch'd skeptically as well. You are entitled to hold whatever view/perspective that suits you best without question.

Yeah I know. Its just that my patience for sheeple who think they aren't simply because they fall for less-than-mainstream propaganda has long since worn thin. These are the worst kind of sheeple, imo. And I'm not saying this person is one of those people, I don't know who this person is or what has made them think they way they do, but everytime I see someone act like they might just be one, a puppet who ditched one set of strings just to replace them with another set...well I just don't hold my tounge anymore.

The fact is that there is only so much you can be sure of when you are this far removed from what is actually (or isn't actually) going on. All of these people who are convined that they have got it all figured out, regardless of the side, are tools. :)

They've somehow managed to loose their healthy level of skepticism by becomming too skeptical of only one side.

I love how conspiracy theorists are so sure of themselves. All it really is, is overcompensation for their doubt.

Not at all. The fact is logic is just fallible by nature. There are ways for certain arguments to make sense that aren't necessarily true. All one has to do is view it free of their conceptions that it's garbage. Once done, they simply filter other evidence in order to meet their new perspective. It's completely incidental and primarily unconscious but all people do it, we have a mindset and we filter everything we see to fit that mindset to the point where if substantial evidence goes against it we start to sound more and more ridiculous. Take UM and the Why Terrorism Exists thread, or religious people and all the evidence for evolution. Some people are forced to just downright unconsciously lie to themselves in order to protect their mindset.

This kind of stuff is bred from realizing there is something very wrong with the world. Why is it Republicans and Democrats both want freedom but assume the other party doesn't? Divide and Conquer, manipulating people's views of others to dehumanize them in each other's minds. Why is flouride in our water when studies show it increases cavities? Why do environmental organizations do nothing while land is stripped away by developers but won't shut up about the myth of overpopulation? Why are we constantly being fed bad information on TV and given a version of reality that denies history? Why do liberals and conservatives both think the media is controled by the otherside? Why is violent crime going down but gets more air time year after year?

All that's necessary to believe a conspiracy is to find little areas that unsubstantially hint at greater truth and using that to filter all information in a certain way to fit one's new world dichotomy. All of those questions could be answered 10 different ways. There's evidence for 10 different answers. The worst part is most of society just rejects what goes against the version of reality they are given which causes the minorities that follow them to get reactionary.

for the two posters above me.... (grasshoppa & ethen)

have either of you taken an honest look into these "conspiracies"?
what did you make of them?

I think there is a small difference between those who put weight in the conspiracies, and the people who deny them outright.. that is, only one group of people made a shift. we all grow up believing and buying into the same things. some of us took a deeper look, and saw things differently. the other group rode the same wagon the whole way.
weve been on the other side, and saw it for what we think it is, you never changed sides, and never got a new perspective on things. (im generalizing here. obviously everybody changes and grows etc.. but in a different way).if you have looked into this stuff, and i mean honestly, with no preconceived notions of what you'll find, or arguments ready. if you've done that, I respect your point of view, if you havent looked into it, or did it without an open mind, then it is ignorance to call other people stupid for beleiving it.
and yes, it goes both ways. someone who does believe it can be guilty of ignorance for outright denying counter arguments, and not lending them an open mind.

there is a difference between healthy skepticism, and putting a wall up.
the fact that these claims are outrages, makes them easy to be laughed at, and also easily hid from the majority of people for that very reason.
thats what the "document" in the first post of this thread is saying.
i personaly think some random guy wrote that, it wasnt a secretly leaked document. doesnt mean it isn't on point though.

imo, theres most definetly a rabbit hole, and we're headed straight down that sum'bitch right now, whether we know were in it or not.

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Originally Posted by awoke

have either of you taken an honest look into these "conspiracies"?

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I have, which is why it bothers me when people (not you of course) assume this:

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Originally Posted by awoke

then it is ignorance to call other people stupid for beleiving it.

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Originally Posted by awoke

there is a difference between healthy skepticism, and putting a wall up.

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Same is true for both sides, as I'm sure you would agree.

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Originally Posted by awoke

the fact that these claims are outrages, makes them easy to be laughed at, and also easily hid from the majority of people for that very reason.

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That is true, but is it not also possible that perhaps the claim is outrageous and hard to believe because it might not be true, and that perhaps it isn't all just part of "their" plan? Both seem possible to me, but rarely (at least in my experience) do you ever find someone that balanced. They are either pretty convinced that these theories are true, or they are pretty convinced that they are false.

This brings me to a problem I run into a lot when debating theories like this. These theories are, for the most part, not falsifiable. If there is inadequate evidence, that’s because it’s a “cover up”. If there is evidence to the contrary, its just “disinformation”. And often these things are actually used to support such theories! No matter what you have to say against them, they can always be rationalized as just confirmation of the theory. Its paranoia's dream come true.

And the dangerous thing is that, once you begin believing in these types of connections, it becomes disturbingly close to a self-reinforcing delusion. When connections that are obscure and farfetched only confirm your paranoia, when you think that the theory sounding crazy is "all part of their plan" (instead of it, perhaps actually being crazy), etc…its a vicious cycle of paranoia. The illuminati is like the boogeyman in our closet. Its like believing he’s not there when you turn on the light open the door because that’s exactly how he works his psychological torture...its not falsifiable.

But maybe it isn’t real after all, and all of these connections are, like Ominous Deus said, is just a case of what psychologists call “confirmation bias”. And would you like to know which sorts of theories flurish best because of confirmation bias? The one’s that rely on the existence and workings of imperceptible entities with extraordinary abilities.

And the funny part is that, even after reading this, I know someone is going to see the sense in what I have to say, except they are going to twist it around and use it to further justify believing in such theories. They will probably tell themselves "All of these reasons to not believe are just too convienient...they did this on purpose because, this way, no one would belive it were true! The reasons not to believe are too convincing!1!!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ethen

I have, which is why it bothers me when people (not you of course) assume this:






Same is true for both sides, as I'm sure you would agree.



That is true, but is it not also possible that perhaps the claim is outrageous and hard to believe because it might not be true, and that perhaps it isn't all just part of "their" plan? Both seem possible to me, but rarely (at least in my experience) do you ever find someone that balanced. They are either pretty convinced that these theories are true, or they are pretty convinced that they are false.

This brings me to a problem I run into a lot when debating theories like this. These theories are, for the most part, not falsifiable. If there is inadequate evidence, that’s because it’s a “cover up”. If there is evidence to the contrary, its just “disinformation”. And often these things are actually used to support such theories! No matter what you have to say against them, they can always be rationalized as just confirmation of the theory. Its paranoia's dream come true.

And the dangerous thing is that, once you begin believing in these connections, it becomes disturbingly close to a self-reinforcing delusion. The fact the connections are obscure and “unreliable” become a confirmation of your paranoia, the fact that people think you are crazy is "all part of their plan", etc…The illuminati is like the boogeyman in our closet. He’s not there when you turn on the light open the door because that’s exactly how he works his psychological torture...

Or maybe it isn’t real after all, and all of these connections are, like Ominous Deus said, is just a case of what psychologists call “confirmation bias”. And would you like to know which sorts of theories flurish best because of confirmation bias? The one’s that rely on the existence or workings of imperceptible entities with extraordinary abilities. Sound familiar?

And the funny part is that, even after reading this, I know someone is going to see the sense in what I have to say, except they are going to twist it around and use it to further justify believing in such theories. They will probably tell themselves "All of these reasons to not believe are just too convienient...they did this on purpose because, this way, no one would belive it were true! The reasons not to believe are too convincing!1!!"

---

I see your point, I do, and here comes the "but"...

but, all you have to do is look around you. look at all the atrocities that have been commited by governments world wide. the very ground were standing on here in america, was stolen by force. tons of people slain, boatloads of blood spilled, unbelievable misery. and look at whats happening now, were in Iraq for what reason? aint we after Osama? wasn't he supposed to be in Afghanistan? what does liberating the Iraqi people have to do with 9/11?
Do you really think we're killing more terrorists than were creating? people are fighting us over there, because they want us the fuck out of mtheir country. as we would if people occupied us.
we're so desensitized to things. you can go weeks here without remembering we are at war. and even when we think of the war over there, we see explosions and people shooting. were not seeing the bodies blown apart from those bombs, and the heads caved in by the force of those bullets. numbers are reaching 1 million in Iraqi civillian deaths. little kids are having their heads split open, and their mothers are standing over them crying while their brains drip onto the pavement. shit is fucking ugly, man. unspeakable violence.
and for what? and its not just the ugliness of the war, its the way they paint it. "all in the name of freedom, to help the people of Iraq, were doing the moral thing"...it's bullshit. it's more than bullshit, it's unforgivable.
The media doesn't dig into anything, they just show you pictures that have been pre-approved.

The people who run this country, and other countries around the wolrd, are capable of all of this unspeakably ugly shit thats happening. they're doing it right now, in broad daylight, balls out in the wind....
and we're watching MTV, were eating food that's incredibly unhealthy for our bodies and minds, while others, even in our own country, our own city limits for that matter, are starving to death.
your government does not give a fuck about you. not in the least bit. they'd cut your throat for the presidency. they'd blow up the world trade centers for their own agenda. why do we trust them? because they have a clever use of language, theyre using hundreds and hundreds of years worth of knowledge of how to control people, and make them look were you want them too. to make them ask the questions that aren't going to make people cave their skulls in when they answer. shit is rigged.

the government is capable of horrible shit, it's not a stretch to believe they would spend untold amounts of time and money in keeping us blind to what theyre doing. becasue WE, the people, are not monsters like them. we know compassion, and if we really had our wits about us, their shit would be over in a flash. they know that. we outnumber then on a grand scale. our money is how they get things done, and whats even crazier, is their getting US to do their bidding. you think cops arent going to arrest people on the terms they set? we are the cops. we start killing cops for carrying out their will, and we're killing ourselves. puupet strings stretch high.

when I honestly look at whats happening in the world, it doesnt astonish me that these people are trying to keep us in the dark. trying to squeeze what they can from us before they leave us to die. its plausible.

your right though, you can neither prove, nor disprove this shit.
and although you covered it, i'll go ahead and say it... that would be a brilliant way to cover things up. no proof on either side of the fence, keeps people like us fighting eachother and not them.

maybe it all is bullshit, i hope to hell it is. my gut, life experiance, and eyes when i look around, lead to beleive otherwise though.



sorry that was so long. Im listening to some really ill music right now, and that usually gets my lost in thought. it gets ugly when im typing out those thoughts, lol.




oddly enough, im listening to the music on an illuminati video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yw7z...eature=related

I bet like a lot of things, which I can't really think of an example of now, there is some truth to this, a whole bunch of crap, and some parts that aren't known that are even worse and stranger.

I don't buy that airplanes are spreading chemicals, vaccines are poison, etc. Pollution is everywhere because people need a bunch of crap to live and consumption is unlimited as long as they can keep making the crap cheap enough that people buy it. If they are trying to kill people, they aren't doing a very good job, seeing as how the population is going up in places where people don't use birth control. In places where people are educated, they limit their own reproduction. Lifespans aren't shorter, they are longer, and they'll be glad to sell you a hundred different drugs to keep you alive even longer.

Most people's own worst enemy is their own self. Corporations are happy to help them dig their grave by providing them with too much cheap, unhealthy food, entertaiment that rots their brains and their bodies, and lots of credit to hang themselves with, but ultimately, people can escape those traps if they have any sense. You don't have to fall for it. Don't buy their crap, don't borrow money from them, don't listen to them, and you are free from them, as long as you live in one of the semi-free societies. I know it is hard to do, but it can be done.

However, I know there are lots of things going on behind the scenes that regular people never here about which involve lots of money and power. They don't care about the future of regular people either; they would trade our freedom and security for money, and probably are right now.

I truly believe we live in the last best time on earth. It's all down hill from here for the majority of people. Either the population keeps going up and people kill themselves that way, or it crashes due to some catastrophe, because people won't limit themselves. I think our government (U.S.) is not really the democracy it pretends to be, and someday they will quit pretending. Unless economic collapse comes first, and China ends up telling us what to do.

Ultimately the people in this country screwed themselves, I think. Maybe they didn't have a chance, but they didn't really try very hard. Present company excepted, of course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

I bet like a lot of things, which I can't really think of an example of now, there is some truth to this, a whole bunch of crap, and some parts that aren't known that are even worse and stranger.

I don't buy that airplanes are spreading chemicals, vaccines are poison, etc. Pollution is everywhere because people need a bunch of crap to live and consumption is unlimited as long as they can keep making the crap cheap enough that people buy it. If they are trying to kill people, they aren't doing a very good job, seeing as how the population is going up in places where people don't use birth control. In places where people are educated, they limit their own reproduction. Lifespans aren't shorter, they are longer, and they'll be glad to sell you a hundred different drugs to keep you alive even longer.

Most people's own worst enemy is their own self. Corporations are happy to help them dig their grave by providing them with too much cheap, unhealthy food, entertaiment that rots their brains and their bodies, and lots of credit to hang themselves with, but ultimately, people can escape those traps if they have any sense. You don't have to fall for it. Don't buy their crap, don't borrow money from them, don't listen to them, and you are free from them, as long as you live in one of the semi-free societies. I know it is hard to do, but it can be done.

However, I know there are lots of things going on behind the scenes that regular people never here about which involve lots of money and power. They don't care about the future of regular people either; they would trade our freedom and security for money, and probably are right now.

I truly believe we live in the last best time on earth. It's all down hill from here for the majority of people. Either the population keeps going up and people kill themselves that way, or it crashes due to some catastrophe, because people won't limit themselves. I think our government (U.S.) is not really the democracy it pretends to be, and someday they will quit pretending. Unless economic collapse comes first, and China ends up telling us what to do.

Ultimately the people in this country screwed themselves, I think. Maybe they didn't have a chance, but they didn't really try very hard. Present company excepted, of course.

---

nah, im guilty of the things i hate. i own up to that. i eat Mc.Donalds, watch shit TV, work the jobs that keeps them going. it's damn hard not to. the society we live in makes it very, very difficult to break away.

if you're interested, I saw a video today about vaccines. where it's admitted that HIV and other desieses, have been brought into this country thru vaccines. they chalk it up to crude science, as it was some time ago. up to whoever watches it to decide whether or not it was intentional.
Schools today, are threatening to imprison parents who don't get their kids vaccinated, even though a lot of people are worried these vaccines play a role in autism. theres something wrong with that. theyre threatening us with jail time, for not putting what they tell us to put into our kids. despite legitamate concerns being raised. they say it's because a childs education is so imprtant, they don't want them missing school due to sickness.
look at our education system. if it's all important, why are they doing such a grimace worthy job with it? our education system sucks.
why not stop giving tax breaks to the rich (the richest 1 percent in this country, have more wealth than the bottom 99 percent combined) and pump that moey into the education. better yet, why not throw some critacl thinking into the education, and at least attempt to fix the weak points, instead of maintaning the status quo? were serious enough to imprison people for their childs education, but not at all serious about giving these kids the best education we can provide.

I find all these commercials for medicine now and days funny. turn on the TV for 1 hour, and i bet my life you see more than a few commercials for pharmacuticals. why? we can't buy these products, you have to have a prescription to get them. yet theyre running ads for them all day, so people will go to their doctor and ask to switch medication. when has our health become a money making machine?

of course they're not killing us. what would they do if we werent here to make them loads of money and run the country? were sure as hell killing a lot of other people we don't need.

as for pregnancies.. why do we have an abstinence only sex ed plan? why dont we teach contraception? sure, they don't want kids having sex until marrige, but were assaulted with images of brittany spears gyrating in a thong.

I agree the good times here are on their way out. but we differ on the details, I don't think its that last of the good times. we have to lay down shit to grow the grass. things will get uglier before they get better, but judging from howugly things are, when they do get better, it will be amazing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

I see your point, I do, and here comes the "but"...

but, all you have to do is look around you. look at all the atrocities that have been commited by governments world wide. the very ground were standing on here in america, was stolen by force. tons of people slain, boatloads of blood spilled, unbelievable misery.

---

How does that support the existence of the illuminati?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

and look at whats happening now, were in Iraq for what reason? aint we after Osama? wasn't he supposed to be in Afghanistan? what does liberating the Iraqi people have to do with 9/11?
Do you really think we're killing more terrorists than were creating? people are fighting us over there, because they want us the fuck out of mtheir country. as we would if people occupied us.

---

So perhaps our government/president had alternative motives for invading Iraq...again, how does this support the existence of the illuminati as opposed to just a corrupt president? Those two things are on completely different levels of plausibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

we're so desensitized to things. you can go weeks here without remembering we are at war. and even when we think of the war over there, we see explosions and people shooting. were not seeing the bodies blown apart from those bombs, and the heads caved in by the force of those bullets. numbers are reaching 1 million in Iraqi civillian deaths. little kids are having their heads split open, and their mothers are standing over them crying while their brains drip onto the pavement. shit is fucking ugly, man. unspeakable violence.

---

Again, powerful imagery but what’s it have to do with the Illuminati?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

and its not just the ugliness of the war, its the way they paint it. "all in the name of freedom, to help the people of Iraq, were doing the moral thing"...it's bullshit. it's more than bullshit, it's unforgivable.

---

Yes, despite the fact that took a sadistic dictator out of power, I see your point. If we just assume there were no good intentions behind this war, does that really reinforce the idea of the Illuminati or simply American Propaganda?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

The media doesn't dig into anything, they just show you pictures that have been pre-approved.

---

Why would the government want to show the ugly side of war to the American people? War is never pleasant, and showing all of the nasty details on TV isn't going to benefit them...so why does this sort of censorship tie into the illuminati??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

The people who run this country, and other countries around the wolrd, are capable of all of this unspeakably ugly shit thats happening. they're doing it right now, in broad daylight, balls out in the wind....

---

I thought that was a given.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

and we're watching MTV, were eating food that's incredibly unhealthy for our bodies and minds, while others, even in our own country, our own city limits for that matter, are starving to death.

---

And none of this is our own faults? Is the illuminati holding a gun to my head when I go to McDonalds or flip on MTV? We need to take some fucking responsibility for our "collective" actions instead of pinning it on some invisible malevolent force. The world isn't perfect, and simply because it isn't doesn't mean an organization like the illuminati exists. Human nature is more than enough to explain why this is the case...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

your government does not give a fuck about you. not in the least bit. they'd cut your throat for the presidency. they'd blow up the world trade centers for their own agenda. why do we trust them? because they have a clever use of language, theyre using hundreds and hundreds of years worth of knowledge of how to control people, and make them look were you want them too. to make them ask the questions that aren't going to make people cave their skulls in when they answer. shit is rigged.

---

yeah, its called politics :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

the government is capable of horrible shit, it's not a stretch to believe they would spend untold amounts of time and money in keeping us blind to what theyre doing.

---

I agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

becasue WE, the people, are not monsters like them

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lol. We've been killing each other for millions of years, long before government. WE have invented a million different ways to kill and hurt each other. WE did this, not "them". PEOPLE did this to themselves, and have for a long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

your right though, you can neither prove, nor disprove this shit. and although you covered it, i'll go ahead and say it... that would be a brilliant way to cover things up. no proof on either side of the fence, keeps people like us fighting eachother and not them.

---

I agree, it would be ingenious. In fact, I'm pretty confident that any organization as powerful as our government does stuff that people probably wouldn't approve of, and then covers it up. But there is a world of difference between that and the Illuminati being real. For all of these things to be all the doing of a single, timeless, evil organization is counter-intuitive to how such people would be. How does such a power-crazy organization (with power-crazy people) cooperate so seamlessly for so long without destroying themselves, much less to do so so perfectly that they are invisible?

I much more willing to believe that there are several powerful, secret-ish organizations (like governments, corporations, etc) that rise and fall, instead of one grand organization that’s been around since the dawn of time…

my point was, if were capable of all this terrible shit, why is something like the "illuminati" so laughable and stupid to people? right before the invasion of Iraq, there were huge protests around the world. I drove 900 miles to Ney York to take part in one of them, as did a lot of people. people went way out of their way to tell the powers at be, they don't approve. it was the biggest protest in the hitsory of humanity. what did it accomplish? nothing. nothing at all. we still went to Iraq. because were not really in control. somebody is though, somebody has to be.

look into the voting machines that were used (and will be used again) when Bush was elected. we didnt elect him. he didnt even win the majority vote.
do you honestly think bush is smart enough, and forward thinking enough to do the shit hes doing? fuck no, the guys a moron. who then is pulling his strings? it aint us "the people". he has the lowest approval rating ever. of anyone. his shits in like the 25-30 percent range. money equals power, these people are the puppets of those with money, campaign contributions, favors owed etc... the richest people in the world, are the illuminati. i bet we see them. the heads of global companies and banks etc... they run shit. they have their own agenda. the only care about their selves and their agenda. thats why so many people are dying, and have been dying around the world in bullshit wars and the like. MASSIVE amounts of money are being generated from this war. whos it going to? the oil were securing in Iraq = Massive amounts of money. The richest 1 percent of this country have more money than the bottom 99 percent combined. think about that. think about how powerful those people are. they can have, and do, anything they want. the world is their oyster. when you're that wealthy, you're divorced from reality. we don't live in the same world as these people. but we build their world.

No, I did not bother to read the whole thread.

Alright, what warrants you that your so spoken of covenant really leaked from the deepest secrets of the Illuminati? You say we have to open our minds to the possibilities, but you are hell not being smart.

If the Illuminati really exists, and does really have such evil plans, information like this would NEVER leak. My idea is that (if they exist) they "pretend it leaked" in such a way to get what they want. That would only be a lie to make their goals easier to reach. Or maybe, they knew we were gonna think it was false, so it is actually true. THAT, friends, is true conspirational theory.

Or, it could also be something to keep our attention while they focus on something else..

Wanna complain, wanna create some conspiracy? - ok, but do it right, smart people you are

Forgive me if this was said before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ethen

And none of this is our own faults? Is the illuminati holding a gun to my head when I go to McDonalds or flip on MTV? We need to take some fucking responsibility for our "collective" actions instead of pinning it on some invisible malevolent force. The world isn't perfect, and simply because it isn't doesn't mean an organization like the illuminati exists. Human nature is more than enough to explain why this is the case...

---

it's entirely our fualt. we have the power to stop all this shit from happening.
maybe "greed" itself is the illuminati, hell if i know. I do know reality is easily stranger than fiction in a lot of cases. realities deeper. what's that famous quote that says something like "the only difference between reality and fiction, is that fiction has to be grounded in reality".

for the record, this is the first time in my life ive ever argued the existance of the illuminati. ive always said "it's possible, but i dont know". I still don't, im open to being wrong. but my gut and head, lean me more to the side of the world being run by the few. your average man feels powerless, as he is. the problem is when we all feel powerless together, which we aren't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

nah, im guilty of the things i hate. i own up to that. i eat Mc.Donalds, watch shit TV, work the jobs that keeps them going. it's damn hard not to. the society we live in makes it very, very difficult to break away.

---

I know, I do too. I talk about being much better than I really am. It's really hard. All we can do is the best that we can to move away from it. Everybody has to eat, and work, and there are limited choices for those things, of course, and for some people the opportunities are really limited due to their circumstances. The most important thing is staying out of debt. Then they really own you. The only thing anyone should ever borrow money for is an education and a house--because they are the only things that go up in value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

if you're interested, I saw a video today about vaccines. where it's admitted that HIV and other desieses, have been brought into this country thru vaccines. they chalk it up to crude science, as it was some time ago. up to whoever watches it to decide whether or not it was intentional.

---

I would watch the video, but I really don't think that vaccine manufacturerers are killing people on purpose. They may occasionally screw up, but in general I don't think that they don't want to kill or hurt people. Infectious disease kills many, many fewer people now than it used to, and that is partly due to vaccines. Pharmaceuticals invest a lot of money in vaccines, and make a lot of money from the profits. It is in their financial interest for that to work out as well as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

Schools today, are threatening to imprison parents who don't get their kids vaccinated, even though a lot of people are worried these vaccines play a role in autism. theres something wrong with that. theyre threatening us with jail time, for not putting what they tell us to put into our kids. despite legitamate concerns being raised. they say it's because a childs education is so imprtant, they don't want them missing school due to sickness.

---

The forced vaccinations are not something I agree with, but I will tell you their reasoning. The more members of a group that are vaccinated, the safer the group as a whole is. It is called herd immunity (for the "sheeple" :P). There may be some individuals that are harmed, but overall the safety of the group is increased. It is just bad luck if any one person is the one who gets hurt. The risk/benefit is considered acceptable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

look at our education system. if it's all important, why are they doing such a grimace worthy job with it? our education system sucks.

---

It's not really all important; most people could care less, I imagine. People vote no to property tax increases all the time. You get what you pay for if education is free. Once someone is old enough to know the reason why they should care, they have to make their own way as far as education. I don't necessarily agree with that in theory, but unfortunately that's the way it is due to economics. There will always be people to do the jobs that need training for, even if we have to import them. Our primary and secondary systems probably suck, but if a kid makes it thru that, our universities are the best there are, and there are still ways to get the money for that, but I realize that is getting tougher.

I don't know why the politicians act like education is so important when obviously it isn't treated like it is. I'll tell you a conspiracy theory of mine--I think Bush's No Child Left Behind is the beginning of the indoctrination into their fascist future; they want to begin to exercise control over people, and this is how they begin to get a way into the minds of the young. The schools shouldn't be trying to pass the tests and get the federal money, they should be running away from it. I don't know why so-called conservatives invite this federal government control into what should be a locally run thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

why not stop giving tax breaks to the rich (the richest 1 percent in this country, have more wealth than the bottom 99 percent combined) and pump that moey into the education. better yet, why not throw some critacl thinking into the education, and at least attempt to fix the weak points, instead of maintaning the status quo? were serious enough to imprison people for their childs education, but not at all serious about giving these kids the best education we can provide.

---

I guess like I said it is not really that important--it's just a lie to get people to vote for them. The Democrats and Republicans agree to split up the people a certain way, they get the votes, then they go on and do exactly what they want. There has got to be a profit in it for someone to care enough to fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

I find all these commercials for medicine now and days funny. turn on the TV for 1 hour, and i bet my life you see more than a few commercials for pharmacuticals. why? we can't buy these products, you have to have a prescription to get them. yet theyre running ads for them all day, so people will go to their doctor and ask to switch medication. when has our health become a money making machine?

---

They run the ads, because they are effective for sales just like any other product, not because people need all those drugs. I guess medicine has always been a business, somewhat different than others, but ultimately everyone in it is there to make a profit, even the "non-profits" like some hospitals and the Red Cross--they have to, just to keep up and to stay in business. Unfortunately, over the last 40 years or so it has become a huge business in which lots of the money is siphoned off into middle-men like the insurance companies. Crappy medicine could be free; good medicine is never going to be, but there could be a much better way of doing it, without such huge profits going to insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

of course they're not killing us. what would they do if we werent here to make them loads of money and run the country? were sure as hell killing a lot of other people we don't need.

---

Yea--that's the part of the conspiracy I didn't understand, I see what you are saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

as for pregnancies.. why do we have an abstinence only sex ed plan? why dont we teach contraception? sure, they don't want kids having sex until marrige, but were assaulted with images of brittany spears gyrating in a thong.

---

I think the abstinence-only people are the religious fundamentalists exercising their control which people have handed to them. However if they can make a profit from thong-gyrations, I'm sure they are not opposed; money will always be more important. It's just disconnects--you sell what sells, meanwhile try to control the sheeple. (I love that word, I have to keep using it now. :P)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

I agree the good times here are on their way out. but we differ on the details, I don't think its that last of the good times. we have to lay down shit to grow the grass. things will get uglier before they get better, but judging from howugly things are, when they do get better, it will be amazing.

---

Yea, it would be amazing if it got better. I'm just not sure how it will happen. Maybe it will for some people some day. I tend to think it will go down in our lifetimes, but I guess we'll see.

OK, it took me so long to write this like 5 more things got posted. I wanted to add one thing:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

look into the voting machines that were used (and will be used again) when Bush was elected. we didnt elect him. he didnt even win the majority vote.
do you honestly think bush is smart enough, and forward thinking enough to do the shit hes doing? fuck no, the guys a moron. who then is pulling his strings? it aint us "the people". he has the lowest approval rating ever. of anyone. his shits in like the 25-30 percent range. money equals power, these people are the puppets of those with money, campaign contributions, favors owed etc... the richest people in the world, are the illuminati. i bet we see them. the heads of global companies and banks etc... they run shit. they have their own agenda. the only care about their selves and their agenda. thats why so many people are dying, and have been dying around the world in bullshit wars and the like. MASSIVE amounts of money are being generated from this war. whos it going to? the oil were securing in Iraq = Massive amounts of money. The richest 1 percent of this country have more money than the bottom 99 percent combined. think about that. think about how powerful those people are. they can have, and do, anything they want. the world is their oyster. when you're that wealthy, you're divorced from reality. we don't live in the same world as these people. but we build their world.

---

That I agree with 100%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

my point was, if were capable of all this terrible shit, why is something like the "illuminati" so laughable and stupid to people? right before the invasion of Iraq, there were huge protests around the world. I drove 900 miles to Ney York to take part in one of them, as did a lot of people. people went way out of their way to tell the powers at be, they don't approve. it was the biggest protest in the hitsory of humanity. what did it accomplish? nothing. nothing at all. we still went to Iraq. because were not really in control. somebody is though, somebody has to be.

look into the voting machines that were used (and will be used again) when Bush was elected. we didnt elect him. he didnt even win the majority vote.
do you honestly think bush is smart enough, and forward thinking enough to do the shit hes doing? fuck no, the guys a moron. who then is pulling his strings? it aint us "the people". he has the lowest approval rating ever. of anyone. his shits in like the 25-30 percent range. money equals power, these people are the puppets of those with money, campaign contributions, favors owed etc... the richest people in the world, are the illuminati. i bet we see them. the heads of global companies and banks etc... they run shit. they have their own agenda. the only care about their selves and their agenda. thats why so many people are dying, and have been dying around the world in bullshit wars and the like. MASSIVE amounts of money are being generated from this war. whos it going to? the oil were securing in Iraq = Massive amounts of money. The richest 1 percent of this country have more money than the bottom 99 percent combined. think about that. think about how powerful those people are. they can have, and do, anything they want. the world is their oyster. when you're that wealthy, you're divorced from reality. we don't live in the same world as these people. but we build their world.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I have being targeted by something from the ocean which I believe is in control. enough said

People often don't realise that society has been improving throughout the ages. Just look at the conditions under the British empire's golden age, or the Roman empire for that matter. Sure we still have wars and corruption, but core human values have, in general, improved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

my point was, if were capable of all this terrible shit, why is something like the "illuminati" so laughable and stupid to people?

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I just explained why. It’s because that next step in logic entails much more to it than you seem to be acknowledging. Basically what you are saying is that, if a government or a corporation can be corrupt, then why not every government and every big corporation all being part of the same grand corruption? Can’t you see the difference in plausibility between those two scenarios? The first example, at least in my mind, is almost certainly true. I have no doubt in my mind that some corporations and some governments are corrupt. I get that. But what you are talking about when you speak of the illuminati existing is so far beyond that, its not just the next “step” in logic. You are talking about a seamless control over the WORLDS population by a SINGLE organization over every continents (how before technology?) and across dozens of MILLENIA to become what could be described as, for a lack of better words, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnicious. Does that sound humanly possible to you? Because to me, for something like this to have been able to be pulled off (and pulled off so perfectly that it has been invisible), it would take “unhuman” qualities.

But let me guess, that where the aliens come in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

right before the invasion of Iraq, there were huge protests around the world. I drove 900 miles to Ney York to take part in one of them, as did a lot of people. people went way out of their way to tell the powers at be, they don't approve. it was the biggest protest in the hitsory of humanity. what did it accomplish? nothing. nothing at all. we still went to Iraq. because were not really in control. somebody is though, somebody has to be.

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Yeah, the government is in control. In essence, we hire the government to control us. We elect who we want in charge. That’s shouldn’t shock and disturb you…its not a secret at all. And quite frankly, if the government thinks it needs to do something, protesting isn’t going to stop that. And the unfortunate reality is that sometimes you have to do questionable things to keep things running. People don’t seem to be able to handle that truth too well, and if it were up to “the people”, I don’t think they would have what it takes to make the hard decisions. That’s just a harsh dose of reality right there. I want perfection, we all want perfection. No one should have to get hurt, no one should have to suffer, everyone should be able to get along and function flawlessly together with love and peace. But that’s incompatible with human nature. That was never in the cards for us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

look into the voting machines that were used (and will be used again) when Bush was elected. we didnt elect him. he didnt even win the majority vote.

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That’s because we don’t actually live in a true democracy. Do you know how the electoral college works? It tries to help balance the control of the “popular vote”. If we lived in a true democracy, states like Texas, New York, and California would basically have full control over the country because they have far more votes than any other state. Unless the other 50 states came together as a collective (which, lets face it, wouldn’t happens because we can’t agree on things), the rest of the country would be at the whim of a few select states. And the founding fathers new this, which is why they came up with the electoral college. Each state gets a certain number of representatives (proportional to their population), and those representatives relay what the people think. In so doing, the power is much more evenly distributed across the states.

It’s not all about sheer numbers, its about winning the most electoral college votes…which means targeting specific states as opposed to the overall population. The fact is that people voted for Bush….lots of people, two different times over the span of 4 years. And this is what I mean by taking responsibility for our actions. We deliberately put him in power, yeah it sucks that he wasn’t a good president, but its not like he forced his way in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

do you honestly think bush is smart enough, and forward thinking enough to do the shit hes doing? fuck no, the guys a moron. who then is pulling his strings? it aint us "the people". he has the lowest approval rating ever. of anyone. his shits in like the 25-30 percent range. money equals power, these people are the puppets of those with money, campaign contributions, favors owed etc... the richest people in the world, are the illuminati. i bet we see them. the heads of global companies and banks etc... they run shit. they have their own agenda. the only care about their selves and their agenda. thats why so many people are dying, and have been dying around the world in bullshit wars and the like. MASSIVE amounts of money are being generated from this war. whos it going to? the oil were securing in Iraq = Massive amounts of money. The richest 1 percent of this country have more money than the bottom 99 percent combined. think about that. think about how powerful those people are. they can have, and do, anything they want. the world is their oyster. when you're that wealthy, you're divorced from reality. we don't live in the same world as these people. but we build their world.

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I don’t think he is as stupid as you would like to believe, I just think he is a terrible public speaker. He did graduate from Yale. And no, its not just Bush making these decisions, it’s also his administration. And yes, money is involved, its called lobbying. Again, none of this is new or secret, nor is it grounds for invoking the existence of the illuminati. For someone who seems to be looking for answers, you don’t seem to be considering the basic structure of our government. To me, it’s seems like need to balance your research a bit more. Perhaps then things wouldn’t seem so lop-sided…

Sometimes I wonder if believing in the illuminati is how people channel there angst for all of the suffering in the world. They demonize it, they personify it, and then they have a target/an outlet for these feelings now that they have something specific to blame.

Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

my point was, if were capable of all this terrible shit, why is something like the "illuminati" so laughable and stupid to people? right before the invasion of Iraq, there were huge protests around the world. I drove 900 miles to Ney York to take part in one of them, as did a lot of people. people went way out of their way to tell the powers at be, they don't approve. it was the biggest protest in the hitsory of humanity. what did it accomplish? nothing. nothing at all. we still went to Iraq. because were not really in control. somebody is though, somebody has to be.

look into the voting machines that were used (and will be used again) when Bush was elected. we didnt elect him. he didnt even win the majority vote.
do you honestly think bush is smart enough, and forward thinking enough to do the shit hes doing? fuck no, the guys a moron. who then is pulling his strings? it aint us "the people". he has the lowest approval rating ever. of anyone. his shits in like the 25-30 percent range. money equals power, these people are the puppets of those with money, campaign contributions, favors owed etc... the richest people in the world, are the illuminati. i bet we see them. the heads of global companies and banks etc... they run shit. they have their own agenda. the only care about their selves and their agenda. thats why so many people are dying, and have been dying around the world in bullshit wars and the like. MASSIVE amounts of money are being generated from this war. whos it going to? the oil were securing in Iraq = Massive amounts of money. The richest 1 percent of this country have more money than the bottom 99 percent combined. think about that. think about how powerful those people are. they can have, and do, anything they want. the world is their oyster. when you're that wealthy, you're divorced from reality. we don't live in the same world as these people. but we build their world.

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Good point. As im not a US citizen, but more like a neighbor i researched The US history starting from Pearl Harbor. The Gab, starts there, when the US president was supposedly assassinated by some mere moron.
The truth is that it was never shown publicly. The real Killer was JFK's Driver.
Source : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df20CXzL7IM

The next point is Pearl Harbor, The government knew the Japanese are coming, and yet they did not interfere. And let the innocent people die in wane.

911 is the trigger, those who believe the conspiracy is bs, please dont even bother talking. Do some research, before debating something that you never thought about. The proof is out here, who will you believe? the people? or the government who feeds you with lies? your choice.

The Illuminati came into existence in 1777. These people are here for a long time. Generations after generations past, and they are more powerful than ever, just look at the dollar bill, you will see that they own all the banks just from that peek. People, im talking about hundreds of years, they have been developing our economy since beginning of our intellectual.

Watch Zeitgeist if you have guts. And show me if something is BS in it.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Debating on a topic which started hundreds of years ago, is not something we can ignore nor understand. We grow up in an environment which they created. We eat what they want us to eat. We learn what they want us to learn. We are all controlled by them.

The elections don't exist for those who don't know. It started from the 40's when the Federal bank took over the monetary system. They choose their people in the Bohemian Grove meetings. Do some research. and you will see what i mean. The elections are totally controlled by the Elite's. They do not work as they used to. Computers can be manipulated from all sides.

Talking about conspiracy's?? will you ignore that JFK said they are real? wont you believe your former president? who else will you believe if not him,? im tired of reading all these useless responses. They seem to be so drastically non intelligent. RESEARCH PEOPLE, STOP LIVING IN UR OWN LIES.

You can flame me as much as you want, but rest assure, when the time comes... the truth decent upon your heads. At that time, it will be too late to stop it.

Did you even read anything I've said so far (assuming you were aiming that towards me)? I swear, I could rebuttal everything you have just said with stuff I have already said in this discussion.

I'm sorry, but when the posts have to be as long as they are in order to explain myself adequately, its just too much effort to keep repeating myself to people who blow in here with the same accusations others have already made, drop a couple links to youtube videos that we've already seen, and then act like they've just proven the world biggest secret in 8 minutes. :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ethen

its just too much effort to keep repeating myself to people who blow in here with the same accusations others have already made, drop a couple links to youtube videos that we've already seen, and then act like they've just proven the world biggest secret in 8 minutes. :roll:

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:chuckle:

Quote:

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I just explained why. It’s because that next step in logic entails much more to it than you seem to be acknowledging. Basically what you are saying is that, if a government or a corporation can be corrupt, then why not every government and every big corporation all being part of the same grand corruption? Can’t you see the difference in plausibility between those two scenarios? The first example, at least in my mind, is almost certainly true. I have no doubt in my mind that some corporations and some governments are corrupt. I get that. But what you are talking about when you speak of the illuminati existing is so far beyond that, its not just the next “step” in logic. You are talking about a seamless control over the WORLDS population by a SINGLE organization over every continents (how before technology?) and across dozens of MILLENIA to become what could be described as, for a lack of better words, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnicious. Does that sound humanly possible to you? Because to me, for something like this to have been able to be pulled off (and pulled off so perfectly that it has been invisible), it would take “unhuman” qualities.

But let me guess, that where the aliens come in?

---

I see your point, im just pointing out, if government corruption is legit, and basicaly generaly accepted, then why is somehting more powerful than government totaly asinine? yes, i agree it's a big step in logic. doesnt mean its not possible. what are the chances of the universe being created from an explosion. not good. i think life is deeper than your willing to accept.
i fully admit the illuminat might be bullshit. doesnt mean im not open to it.
youre underestimating human potential thinking people couldnt accomplish what the illuminat has done. billions and billions of dollars, and lots and lots of time can accomplish anything. it hasnt been invisible, its only been invisible to you.

Quote:

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Yeah, the government is in control. In essence, we hire the government to control us. We elect who we want in charge. That’s shouldn’t shock and disturb you…its not a secret at all. And quite frankly, if the government thinks it needs to do something, protesting isn’t going to stop that. And the unfortunate reality is that sometimes you have to do questionable things to keep things running. People don’t seem to be able to handle that truth too well, and if it were up to “the people”, I don’t think they would have what it takes to make the hard decisions. That’s just a harsh dose of reality right there. I want perfection, we all want perfection. No one should have to get hurt, no one should have to suffer, everyone should be able to get along and function flawlessly together with love and peace. But that’s incompatible with human nature. That was never in the cards for us.

---

well, theres some shit wrong here. we don't hire the governement to control us, we hire them to act in our will. thats not happening by a long fucking shot. and ill say agin, we didnt elect Bush.
protesting should stop that. we elect our government to do what WE see fit. if WE gather in the millions and say WE dont want this to be done, your goddamn skippy it should be talked about. youre a fucking moron if you think the goernment acts in your best interest. they dont. they have other interests. It tires me out, and sickens me to hear people constantly saying shit liek" sometimes we have to do tough things" when talking about war. no, we dont have to kill millions of people. what is the tough issue were facing that lead to Iraq? what was this huge threat everyonr refers to? there want one. the reality of the situation is, were sending kids to kill kids for no fucking reason. thats something you need to accept. right, the people dont have what it takes to make a hard decision, but people who wont even be affected by it do? no. they certainly make a decision, doesnt mean its the right one, the fair or just one, or the one the majority of the people want.
how do we know love and peace isn't possible? maybe if we ever gave it a chance we might see that its very possible. but no, weve never tried it.

Quote:

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That’s because we don’t actually live in a true democracy. Do you know how the electoral college works? It tries to help balance the control of the “popular vote”. If we lived in a true democracy, states like Texas, New York, and California would basically have full control over the country because they have far more votes than any other state. Unless the other 50 states came together as a collective (which, lets face it, wouldn’t happens because we can’t agree on things), the rest of the country would be at the whim of a few select states. And the founding fathers new this, which is why they came up with the electoral college. Each state gets a certain number of representatives (proportional to their population), and those representatives relay what the people think. In so doing, the power is much more evenly distributed across the states.

It’s not all about sheer numbers, its about winning the most electoral college votes…which means targeting specific states as opposed to the overall population. The fact is that people voted for Bush….lots of people, two different times over the span of 4 years. And this is what I mean by taking responsibility for our actions. We deliberately put him in power, yeah it sucks that he wasn’t a good president, but its not like he forced his way in.

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yes, I know how the electoral college works.
how would the country be in the control of the states with the most people?that doesnt make sense. everyone votes, every vote is counted, the person with the most votes wins. doesnt matter how many people are in X state, if everyones vote counts as 1 vote.
dude, seriously, we didnt put bush in power. i urge you to look into the shit that went wrong in the last election. look at florida, and ohio. two key states were people were turned away from voting by the thousands, for sharing the same name as a registered felon, among other reasons. we didnt elect bush. rich people elected him for us.

Quote:

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I don’t think he is as stupid as you would like to believe, I just think he is a terrible public speaker. He did graduate from Yale. And no, its not just Bush making these decisions, it’s also his administration. And yes, money is involved, its called lobbying. Again, none of this is new or secret, nor is it grounds for invoking the existence of the illuminati. For someone who seems to be looking for answers, you don’t seem to be considering the basic structure of our government. To me, it’s seems like need to balance your research a bit more. Perhaps then things wouldn’t seem so lop-sided…

Sometimes I wonder if believing in the illuminati is how people channel there angst for all of the suffering in the world. They demonize it, they personify it, and then they have a target/an outlet for these feelings now that they have something specific to blame.

Just a thought.

---

give me the amount of money Bush has, and I'll graduate from Yale too.
$$$$$ makes anything possible. he has a lot fo it. diplomas from prestigious colleges can be bought. elections can be bought.
why is anyone who entertains the thought of the illuminati looking for someone to blame? even if the illuminat is real, were still to blame.
would I be out of line by saying you're hiding from reality to keep the stat quo of how you see the world intact? the ideas to large for you to grasp so its bullshit? back to sleep.


i'm done here though. neither of us are stupid, and i get the feeling we both see the fun in a good argument. sometimes a good argument begins to require too much time and energy though.

easy man...

whatev.

One last thought though. If you just assume that anyone who doesn't agree with this theory is ignorant, "alseep", or a sheelple, your the one who is niave.

haha, I was drunk typing that last night. was a little harsh. meant no offense man.
nah i don't think your a "sheep" or any of that. your obviously a smart dude.
people just get heated with stuff like this because if it is true, people not acknowledging it is a problem. doesnt give them the right to be an asshole though. you're cool with me hombre.

easy...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

haha, I was drunk typing that last night. was a little harsh. meant no offense man.

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Ah, yeah ive done that :P Its all good dude, the reality of the situation is that I haven't come to a conclusion either way yet. Its weird, when i'm in a discussion where people are mainly dismissing the possibility of such theories, I tend argue in favor of them being a possibility. But when i'm in a discussion where people are mainly advocating the validity of such theories, I tend to argue against them. Thats just me trying to balance the perspectives, I suppose.

Awake in the Dream

Hey guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I think this Illuminati iis a scapegoat for your filthy lifestyles; you and the rest of the civilised world.



Also; I accept the possibility of the existence of such a group. If they do exist; I don't care. Why should I? They're essentially so secret that they don't do anything. Good for them I say.

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You're a great guy Carou, and witty. But it's clear you're completely ignorant on the subject of the Illuminati, and therefore have no room to speak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

You're a great guy Carou, and witty. But it's clear you're completely ignorant on the subject of the Illuminati, and therefore have no room to speak.

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Oh noes!


OK. Forget the comments.


But tell me if they do exist why I should care? Why would it affect me? Educate me, eh.

well they only wanna microchip us and put s in concentration camps so they can live off out energy of despair!!!

They are also Nazi jews, who started chritianity, but really worship satan who is an atheist. oh and they come from outer space!!!

do I have room to laugh? ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ethen

Ok, why are clouds a hidden reference to chemtrails? Is it because of the torch in her hand and what that references? Is the "B" really just a "13" because its the B of a promanent bank?

Or maybe, just maybe, people might be reading too far into things...because YES, there is a "too far". And maybe im not going to be another easy "your just too ignorant to understand" person to blow off.

Because thats way easier than actually making sense of some of these connections, isn't it? Wait, let me guess, the fact there is a reasonable and yet contradictory explanation behind most of it is all part of their plan...

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I agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awoke

I see your point, I do, and here comes the "but"...

but, all you have to do is look around you. look at all the atrocities that have been commited by governments world wide. the very ground were standing on here in america, was stolen by force. tons of people slain, boatloads of blood spilled, unbelievable misery. and look at whats happening now, were in Iraq for what reason? aint we after Osama? wasn't he supposed to be in Afghanistan? what does liberating the Iraqi people have to do with 9/11?
Do you really think we're killing more terrorists than were creating? people are fighting us over there, because they want us the fuck out of mtheir country. as we would if people occupied us.
we're so desensitized to things. you can go weeks here without remembering we are at war. and even when we think of the war over there, we see explosions and people shooting. were not seeing the bodies blown apart from those bombs, and the heads caved in by the force of those bullets. numbers are reaching 1 million in Iraqi civillian deaths. little kids are having their heads split open, and their mothers are standing over them crying while their brains drip onto the pavement. shit is fucking ugly, man. unspeakable violence.
and for what? and its not just the ugliness of the war, its the way they paint it. "all in the name of freedom, to help the people of Iraq, were doing the moral thing"...it's bullshit. it's more than bullshit, it's unforgivable.
The media doesn't dig into anything, they just show you pictures that have been pre-approved.

The people who run this country, and other countries around the wolrd, are capable of all of this unspeakably ugly shit thats happening. they're doing it right now, in broad daylight, balls out in the wind....
and we're watching MTV, were eating food that's incredibly unhealthy for our bodies and minds, while others, even in our own country, our own city limits for that matter, are starving to death.
your government does not give a fuck about you. not in the least bit. they'd cut your throat for the presidency. they'd blow up the world trade centers for their own agenda. why do we trust them? because they have a clever use of language, theyre using hundreds and hundreds of years worth of knowledge of how to control people, and make them look were you want them too. to make them ask the questions that aren't going to make people cave their skulls in when they answer. shit is rigged.

the government is capable of horrible shit, it's not a stretch to believe they would spend untold amounts of time and money in keeping us blind to what theyre doing. becasue WE, the people, are not monsters like them. we know compassion, and if we really had our wits about us, their shit would be over in a flash. they know that. we outnumber then on a grand scale. our money is how they get things done, and whats even crazier, is their getting US to do their bidding. you think cops arent going to arrest people on the terms they set? we are the cops. we start killing cops for carrying out their will, and we're killing ourselves. puupet strings stretch high.

when I honestly look at whats happening in the world, it doesnt astonish me that these people are trying to keep us in the dark. trying to squeeze what they can from us before they leave us to die. its plausible.

your right though, you can neither prove, nor disprove this shit.
and although you covered it, i'll go ahead and say it... that would be a brilliant way to cover things up. no proof on either side of the fence, keeps people like us fighting eachother and not them.

maybe it all is bullshit, i hope to hell it is. my gut, life experiance, and eyes when i look around, lead to beleive otherwise though.



sorry that was so long. Im listening to some really ill music right now, and that usually gets my lost in thought. it gets ugly when im typing out those thoughts, lol.




oddly enough, im listening to the music on an illuminati video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yw7z...eature=related

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stay on topic plz

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4gCQ5YKpkF0


I prefer this one!

"Illuminati
You've come to take control
You can take my heartbeat
But you can't break my soul
We all shall be free

Illuminati
You'll never take control
Your new world order
Will lead to none at all
We all stand before you as one
Heaven is for everyone
To be free from the dark"

That's some good shit ranma! O_O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff777

That's some good shit ranma! O_O

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Yeh gamma ray has some good tunes!

. . .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tornado Joe

. . .

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This thread was good and buried, yet you ressurect it...ironically enough you're sporting the all seeing eye of horus, (a symbol of the illuminati as well) in your avatar, and this thread is about the illuminati...coincidence? I think not...you guys are low.

. . .

I've been trying to find a Coast to Coast Am show I had listened to awhile back. It detailed the supposed plans of some guy in the 17th century on how he planned to take control. Been looking all week but can't find it anymore

He supposedly got together the richest people he could find an layed out his plan. Which was to control all the resources required in wartime, and then provoke wars in which no land or advantages were gained, like say the Iraq war. True or not, it was a brilliant plan.

Anyone heard this? I think his name was Francis something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by malac

stay on topic plz

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sure thing. maybe you could encode the best way to do that in a riddle, and then never tell me what it means but promise it's revolution with a bow on top.

It a shame that the internet gives a voice to the paranoid delusional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminatus_trilogy it a shame, but the illuminati conspiracy developed from a popular fictional book.

P.S. How does one become a member of the illuminati, do you have to buy a hat or something?

Well, the only decent conspiracy is the moon landing hoax, it was obviously a film. Also, do you know JFK was assinated by the CIA because he was a crap president. However, 9/11 conspiracy theory is the least plausible http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....i?u=911_morons

Jeff777 when nothing happens on 2012, can you get rid off your paranoia and child like fanatasy. In the case something does happen on 2012, I will admit I was wrong. Saying that Jeff777 would proberly start saying another date like 2017.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wendylove

Jeff777 when nothing happens on 2012, can you get rid off your paranoia and child like fanatasy. In the case something does happen on 2012, I will admit I was wrong. Saying that Jeff777 would proberly start saying another date like 2017.

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This statement would be justified if it were just me. Though it's not. Is everyone who thinks that it's possible something big happen on 2012 paranoid? And for the record, I already stated that it's possible that nothing happen on 2012. wendylove, get off your meds that are making you a total bitch and just enjoy the ride :) :lmao::wino::poke:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wendylove

P.S. How does one become a member of the illuminati, do you have to buy a hat or something?

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It's not a hat. You need to get yourself the magic Mormon underwear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU

But in most cases, it seems you need to be born into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Eg8F3rap4

Just take a look at the recent movies coming out. Then tell me something strange is not happening.

Boo

http://www.light-of-truth.com/Freema...reasure001.jpg


http://www.light-of-truth.com/images/enter.jpg

Mystic, that movie is more related to the masonry (which is a real occultist order which I doubt could ever do harm).


wendylove, the illuminatus trilogy is more like a part of Discordianism. It's like a joke religion, in a kind of criticism to all organised religions. That book is pretty nice if you ask me - but just not serious.


I do believe the death of JFK was an inside job, since if it were otherwise, the assassin would have been foudn easily - the CIA and FBI are no reasons to kid about. I do not believe 9/11 was an inside job - maybe sponsored terrorism, but I really doubt such thing would happen without nothing ever leaking, and someone in the media showing up and saying they were part of it.

Diane Kruger is hot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wendylove

P.S. How does one become a member of the illuminati, do you have to buy a hat or something?

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Supposedly, you have to reach the rank of 32nd degree Mason. Some say you have to reach 33rd degree. The scary ex-Navy guy who helped run my pre-school/kindergarten is now a 32nd degree Mason. :shock:

lol my father is a 32nd degree mason.. at least he was when I last bothered to ask lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

lol my father is a 32nd degree mason.. at least he was when I last bothered to ask lol

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Did he used to run a kindergarten in Mississippi? :lol:

lol nah but he is an accountant in Brazil. I'm a demolay myself :P check it on wikipedia if it's new to you

I'm not kidding, he is a mason, he goes to conventions in portugal/other parts of europe here and then

http://www.redicecreations.com/mtsar...topic.php?t=12

lol so what is that link about?