Right-minded or Left-minded... which are you, and why?

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03-12-2008, 07:02 AM
Cyclic13

Right-minded or Left-minded... which are you, and why?

http://www.ximnet.com.my/thelab/imag...0_brain1_f.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/105/3...52ac99e31f.jpg http://www.thecolumnists.com/childers1art5.jpg

Last night while dreaming, I was meditating on the thought of dreamers and rationalists and why they are constantly at odds with each other, and how they differ. I saw an image similar to the two above in my mind which made it pretty clear to me where I stand and why. The image was showing a dreamer creating an intricate and detailed outward dreamscape which the rationalist was frantically trying to figure out through analytical observation. The dreamer seemed to be using less effort than the rationalist who was stuck focusing on the small outward objects created by the dreamer.

http://knifedge.files.wordpress.com/...t_brain_xp.jpg http://www.extensor.co.uk/articles/l...rain/brain.jpg

Besides the obvious difference of rationalists being more aligned in the left mind, and dreamers being more aligned in the right mind, what is it that keeps some rationalists from being imaginative or open-minded, or keep some dreamers from caring too much about the breakdowns, semantics, and terminology of scientific observation?

I naturally strongly lean more to the right-mind, and have my reasons which I'll explain more in-depth once this discussion is underway...

In essence, I think that the dreamer creates the dreams that the rationalists single-mindedly observe. Without that form of escapism or thinking outside the box, no innovation would have ever been had. I would even argue it being largely responsible for our level of outer understanding.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...sunshine-1.jpg
03-12-2008, 07:28 AM
dragonoverlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolSkye

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/105/3...52ac99e31f.jpg http://www.thecolumnists.com/childers1art5.jpg

The dispute between rationalism and empiricism concerns the extent to which we are dependent upon sense experience in our effort to gain knowledge. Rationalists claim that there are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Im a bit confused . Can you give an example in which our concepts and knowledge are gained dindependentl of sense expereince? Is that even posisble without using the senses?
03-12-2008, 07:50 AM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Im a bit confused . Can you give an example in which our concepts and knowledge are gained dindependentl of sense expereince? Is that even posisble without using the senses?

2 + 2 = 4 (sense experience), therefore 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 (rational analysis)
03-12-2008, 07:53 AM
dragonoverlord

oh ok in that sense. I thought they meant it in a different way...
03-12-2008, 01:15 PM
pj

I am far more of the imaginative sort, though fully able to apply rationality and reason when required. I don't like it though, and I don't like what I tend to become when life's requirements force me to go there.

I just spent three WEEKS there because of a legal situation. We prevailed - it went down on Monday. Monday evening, I was so looking forward to getting together with the band and just relaxing and falling back into that state of mind I am most comfortable in... but I couldn't do it. I was still stuck in reason. The evening was frustrating and nothing magical came out of it. I left there feeling like I had forgotten how to play.

It's coming back to me now, but the striking thing was recognizing just how fully I had locked into that mode for the day and how difficult it was for me to switch back out of it. It doesn't seem like it should be an "either/or" scenario, but in extreme situations it does become that for me.

Anyway, I'm right-brained by preference and nature. It is where I gravitate to.
03-12-2008, 07:46 PM
TempleGuard

I am right-handed therefore I am left-minded. But I think I am at least slightly right-minded, too, cuz I like all the spiritual and dream stuff. Left-minded looks cooler, but I cant help myself.
03-12-2008, 08:12 PM
thegnome54

The whole right-brained, left-brained thing is a brainscam, please stop spreading this stuff. It's like the "we only use ten percent of our brains", or the "inducing alpha waves leads to deeper consciousness", etc.
03-12-2008, 08:24 PM
tkdyo

I dont think he means litterally all the right brain info is imaginitive and vice-versa, he is just using it to ask a question. In this sense, I am slightly on the logical left side, though I do entertain paranormal ideas, and am good at music, I usually try to find the rational reason to something first, so I guess that makes me slightly left. and solskye you have yet to answer my question in "ask me about seeing aura's" topic :)
03-12-2008, 08:37 PM
thegnome54

The whole concept of this dichotomy is pretty much groundless, if you ask me.

For one thing, it suggests that people who are verbally talented are not likely to be artistic, but research suggests otherwise.

"Rationalists" often have the most successful imaginations, incorporating what they know to come up with new models and explanations of how things work. These 'dreamers' you refer to are basically rationalists without the actual knowledge - just the ability to make up stuff that's probably irrelevant to reality.
03-12-2008, 09:23 PM
nina

^^^ gee, I wonder what he is *snickers*

*runs off to play make believe*
03-12-2008, 10:18 PM
GestaltAlteration

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquanina

^^^ gee, I wonder what he is *snickers*

*runs off to play make believe*

Awesome post :P.

I'm inclined to be right-brained.
03-13-2008, 04:36 AM
thegnome54

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegnome54

The whole right-brained, left-brained thing is a brainscam, please stop spreading this stuff. It's like the "we only use ten percent of our brains", or the "inducing alpha waves leads to deeper consciousness", etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I'm right, and you're wrong. I have all the knowledge and understanding, and you can't even begin to understand my greatness. Now bow down before the mighty gnome! Muahaha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolSkye

child-like stubbornness on your part

You're the one throwing out childish personal attacks.

The 'vein' of this thread seemed to me to be entirely based on the concept of right-brain, left-brain. Maybe it's just all of the poll options using this terminology, or the whole paragraph and numerous false images you posted discussing this concept. If I was somehow wrong about this, and all of that was really not what you meant to discuss, you could tell me nicely instead of lashing out at me. Grow up.
03-13-2008, 04:58 AM
thegnome54

Reread your opening post, man.

The entire thing is about your ideas on how 'dreamers' and 'rationalists' differ, along with a bunch of pictures depicting the right-brain left-brain thing. My comment is clearly not nit-picking, since your WHOLE POINT revolves around this concept.

If all you're after is a bunch of numbers in your poll, you're in the wrong forum. I apologize for assuming you were looking for some sort of discussion about this.
03-13-2008, 05:02 AM
Grod

Do you have links or some sources for this being false Gnome?

I've seen this idea a lot of places(which I accepted as fact), I'd be interested to see a site or article of what you're saying.
03-13-2008, 05:13 AM
thegnome54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grod

Do you have links or some sources for this being false Gnome?

I've seen this idea a lot of places(which I accepted as fact), I'd be interested to see a site or article of what you're saying.

Sure:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...ing-brainscams

That's the actual article I based my post on. Also, during my summer course at Brown, the professor discussed the 'right-brain, left-brain' issue with us for a while, and expressed the same general sentiment that it's an oversimplification and that even though the brain halves are indeed different in structure and function, people have not shown to use one half 'more' than the other.
03-13-2008, 05:35 AM
Grod

Thanks.

Man, that had been indoctrinated in me since I was born.:P
03-13-2008, 08:12 AM
Universal Mind

It is true that there is an emerging school of thought that the old theories of brain hemisphere dominance are wrong. However, as far as I know, the vast majority of psychologists, psychiatrists, and neurologists still hold to the left and right brain dominance theory. It is not really about which side of the brain a person uses more. It is about which side works better. There is a reason that Joni Mitchell can create some of the most beautiful sounds ever heard and have trouble making much sense in a conversation while some of the greatest scientists I know would have trouble drawing a stick man.

This is somebody with extreme right brain dominance. Her music speaks volumes, and what she says to the audience speaks volumes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIZOtykZ0fA

Another right brain extreme:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NZizdexKfDA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PxIlXXNvvTI

This is somebody with (most likely) extreme left brain dominance.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iqX1rX3zLfU

This guy too...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AHylem7AwZU&feature=related

I think I am about equally left and right brained.
03-13-2008, 12:32 PM
Moonbeam

Gnome I never really thought about that whole left-right brain thing enough to question it. So thanks for pointing that out.

P.S. So I guess that spinning dancer thing doesn't really mean anything?
03-13-2008, 12:38 PM
pj

No matter what the physiology may or may not be, there is clearly, (to me, based on my lifetime of observation,) a continuum with hard rationality on one end and emotive on the other. Few of us live our lives at one end or the other of that continuum, but most of us spend most of our time somewhere off-center one way or the other.

I know what my own preference is.
03-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Howie

two

I'm with pj on this. My own observation has shown me enough to believe what I do.

If this is the result of one side working better than the other, it also would stand to reason that you use it more too. Take one of the best examples, the left and right hand, each controlled by the opposite hemisphere. It's apparent that an individual uses the hand that suites them best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegnome54

The whole concept of this dichotomy is pretty much groundless, if you ask me.

For one thing, it suggests that people who are verbally talented are not likely to be artistic, but research suggests otherwise.

"Rationalists" often have the most successful imaginations, incorporating what they know to come up with new models and explanations of how things work. These 'dreamers' you refer to are basically rationalists without the actual knowledge - just the ability to make up stuff that's probably irrelevant to reality.

You are the one that makes this idea seem irrational. The reason being is because someone who is not artistic and is right handed jumps on the defensive. One who is left handed and would like to be mathematically inclined does just the same. What I wish to know is why do people think that an idea has to be all or nothing. As if this theory is to say there are no left brain artists, no right brain scientist That's the silly part.
We have two hemispheres and each hemisphere has shown proficiency or dominance in certain areas. This can be seen through brain scans and tests, it is not just a rational guess.
Why would some people be left or right handed, just happenstance?

Why wouldn't an individual be more proficient at some tasks than others?

We of coarse can train or minds to work in both hemispheres, The Jugglers
The Hemi-sync© series are a method to get both hemispheres in sync with each other. Same with binaural beats. Both hemispheres coordinating together would obviously make for more profound results
03-13-2008, 02:31 PM
Oneiro

I was coached a few times by a french tennis coach who completely changed his technique of teaching after going away to study on some course or other. When he came back, he told us to forget what we'd already learnt, effectively to throw the "Rule Book" away, because he was going to experiment on us with "Right-brained coaching" (sic).

It was really simple.. if the ball bounced in front of you, you had to say out loud the word "bounce".. when you hit the ball, you had to say "hit", unless you were at the net, in which case you had to say "touch".. so you just had three words to learn to say. He said that once these words were ingrained in us, our "instincts" would take over and we would become much better players. The results were amazing.. you stopped thinking about your shots, where to put them etc., and something else took over. After a couple of such lessons, I found myself playing shots of which I could only previously dream, without consciously thinking about them. Strange stuff.
03-13-2008, 03:00 PM
Scatterbrain

From my experience it seems the idea of this division is usually spread by people that then love to shout how they're right sided, different, cool etc.

As for me, I stand in the middle, both are used equally and I wouldn't want it any other way. :D
03-13-2008, 03:09 PM
Cyclic13

I'm sure we all use both sides. You'd need to, in order to function in every day life.

However, I would think that one would tend to excel in one area more than others, or from their disposition or outlook on life be inclined to lean in one direction more, as gnome demonstrated and UM showed us.
03-13-2008, 04:31 PM
nina

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solskye

I guess I'm living in la-la land alongside nina (dream come true, mind you)

So...when are you going to propose? *taps foot*
03-13-2008, 04:42 PM
Cyclic13

*gets down on one knee and opens a box which should've had a ring in it, but instead has some hits of acid and ecstasy*
http://www.globalgateway.com/images/drugs/lsd.jpg http://healthyhorns.utexas.edu/educa...gs/ecstasy.jpg

You and me babe, and strawberry fields forever... Candy flip, and marry me? :rainbow:
03-13-2008, 05:08 PM
nina

Awh...swing and a miss.
03-13-2008, 05:23 PM
Cyclic13

That's too bad. It woulda' been fun... reeeal fun...*sobs and shakes head*

We could've made it real together! And now, I'm doomed to forever repeat this perpetual dream alone, not alive and not dead either!!
03-13-2008, 07:11 PM
Scatterbrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I'm sure we all use both sides. You'd need to, in order to function in every day life.

However, I would think that one would tend to excel in one area more than others, or from their disposition or outlook on life be inclined to lean in one direction more, as gnome demonstrated and UM showed us.

When I said sides, I really meant the characteristics associated with them as in the initial post.
03-13-2008, 09:41 PM
thegnome54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj

No matter what the physiology may or may not be, there is clearly, (to me, based on my lifetime of observation,) a continuum with hard rationality on one end and emotive on the other.

I do agree with that. I mean, the very existence of the terms 'hard rationality' and 'emotive' means there must be some basis for them in human behaviors. I'm not saying this continuum doesn't exist, just that it's probably mediated by a much more complex mechanism than 'which side of your head works better'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howie

We have two hemispheres and each hemisphere has shown proficiency or dominance in certain areas. This can be seen through brain scans and tests, it is not just a rational guess.
Why would some people be left or right handed, just happenstance?

Why wouldn't an individual be more proficient at some tasks than others?

The left-handed right-handed thing is indeed an example of tasks being largely assigned to one side or the other. However, we're already pretty certain that different parts of the brain have different functions. This doesn't imply that

1) One entire side of the brain should work 'better' than the other
2) Either side can be generally associated with the qualities of 'hard rationalists' or 'emotive people'.

I mean, you could say people are 'compassionate' and 'not compassionate', but this doesn't mean that the traits belong to different sides of the brain. As the SciAm article discussed,

Quote:

In most of us, the left hemisphere is specialized for most aspects of language, whereas the right hemisphere is specialized for most visuospatial skills. Yet even these differences are only relative; for example, the right hemisphere tends to play a larger role than the left does in interpreting the vocal tone of spoken language.

The distinctions are not all that clear to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneiro

It was really simple.. if the ball bounced in front of you, you had to say out loud the word "bounce".. when you hit the ball, you had to say "hit", unless you were at the net, in which case you had to say "touch".. so you just had three words to learn to say.

Hmm, interesting... is that all there is to it? I'm trying out for tennis this season, so I'll definitely try it out. Can't hurt :P
03-13-2008, 10:07 PM
Howie

Quote:

1) One entire side of the brain should work 'better' than the other

I am not saying one should, I just am saying that in some cases it just does. Subjectively good or bad. I would like to know how to juggle like that, regardless what side.
03-14-2008, 07:20 AM
Venomblood

Don't mean to brag or be snobby, but people I know think I'm both. I improvise on jazz piano, make games (creativity, right brain), yet succeed in math and similar. Although I am more right brain then left. My right brain skills aren't comparable to those that are truly right brained.