Is this the beginning of the end? or the beginning of something new?

What do you think the world is headed towards? our societies, our nations, our race?

Are we spiraling back into the old ways of tyranny, genocide, ignorance?

Or are we moving toward a new age where we break free from the prospect of world government and totalitarianism?

the chains are slowly being shackled on ourselves and 1 day soon people are saying something catastrophic will happen, a depression, an outbreak of war, or disease, or drought, wars over water, oil...the remaining natural resources.

So, what's your take on all of this?

Do you really think there will be a great depression?
Do you think we will goto more wars?

or

Do you think people will start to wake up and realise what we've become and put a stop to all of this?

I don't know whats happening but it seems like something big is coming around the corner and I don't know what but im excited.

I can only speculate but i think there will be onother depression and possibly in the next 2 years the USA might go into Iran. and that would be an automatic WWIII in my humble opinion...

Im nervous actually, not excited, im scared for whats coming soon.

I hope whatever happens, I'm alive, my family is alive, and that im healthy happy and have regular access to food water housing and alcohol/stuff

I just hope nothing crazy like nuclear war or great depression or world government happens in my lifetime, i want to be old and grey before that happens.

Part of what I do is watch markets. Precious little of what I am seeing concerns me.

The value of the dollar fluctuates and those fluctuations are self-correcting, as cheap dollars make U.S. goods more of a bargain for the rest of the world. The reaction isn't instant, but it does come full circle. (Today, the U.S. and Canadian dollars are nearly on par, with Canada having a tiny edge.)

The commodities markets are being fueled by wild speculation. It can't last forever. Oil and gold are both hugely overpriced as commodities, in my humble opinion. Oil in particular is being seen as a safe haven right now. It's not. (I've watched Nymex oil vary by six dollars a barrel today on the futures market, and unleaded is down over $0.20 per gallon at the moment.)

The credit market is a situation that will correct itself. Like the tech bubble of the 90's... I'm expecting it to get worse this week and then start recovering afterward. Watch for another big financial house to go cheap...

As far as the possibility of a Great Depression, I believe the odds of that happening based on current conditions are minute. I may be wrong - and if I am, it is going to be an interesting ride. My parents survived the first Great Depression, and they were some of the best years of their lives. If it WERE to happen, remember that you won't be going through it alone. Depressions do not isolate people - they draw them together. And when people pull together, things happen.

One thing the U.S. is capable of doing is producing wealth - more than any other nation in history. That isn't going to come to a grinding, crunching halt. There are problems... lots of them... but each problem is also an opportunity.

I ain't buying Euros or oil futures. They are both way overpriced, IMHO. Many stocks are bargains right now. The dollar is a bargain right now too.

Standard disclaimers apply. I've been wrong before. Hell - I've been wrong today. Several times. This is nothing more than my somewhat informed opinion.

im not entirely sure what will be happening to be honest, I think it is a little worse then they say it is if only for the fact I used to work for Northern Rock and they said things would be fine but now they have been nationalized and they are piratically done for.

Watching the News I saw that bears sterns in America is having very tough times of it too and the dollar is at a 12 year low. The Mortgage market here in England is in shambles and that is a result of the current climate in the US and world markets. Its bigger then just America which is why I think things will be difficult.

I dont know anything about the American depression so I am unsure if that is what is coming or not but all I do know is that our market in England is have a hell of a time of it to.

I too beileve this is the beginning of something big.

I believe that there are powers hidden from the general public, and have master plans to eventually create a one world order, in which we will have one currency and one rule. The people in power (some suggest the illuminati) i believe have planned certain events to occur so that the public will ask for things such as the VeriChip, World Peace (one world order) and things as such. The world will be fooled and scared into tyranny throught he means of mass media.

Lots of this is predicted in the book of revelations and in other parts of the bible. It even states that there will be a mark eithr on the forehead or hand, that if you don't have it you wont be able to buy or sell. This verichip may be a means to get people to implant chips in thier body so that the gov't can see where everyone is and what they are doing, and be able to turn off the chip so that criminals or wrongdoers may not participate in society (like open thier door with the chip, or buy things).

The bible also states a one world rule, where the gov't will be in control of everything so that God has no place in our lives anymore, beacuse the gov't will take care of it right? free healthcare, free education...

but wiehter or not the predicted depression occurs or not, something big will happen that will make the world want to unite under one power.

Think about it. 9/11 sets off a war allowed by the people through wanting revenge. The war costs billions, setting america and the world into a recession, people want to unite.

Bears Sterns was bought up for $2 per share.

I'm expecting Lehman Brothers to go this week too. And I think that will probably be the bottom. I expect things to start recovering from there - though I also expect a lot of people to lose a lot of money jumping into overpriced alternatives at the very worst time, out of fear and a lack of understanding of valuation.

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Originally Posted by pj

Bears Sterns was bought up for $2 per share.

I'm expecting Lehman Brothers to go this week too. And I think that will probably be the bottom. I expect things to start recovering from there - though I also expect a lot of people to lose a lot of money jumping into overpriced alternatives at the very worst time.

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yeah thats what they said about northern rock to their share went down to 80 pence from £12 but now because of further events the shares have been frozen at nil

I am surprised Lehmans is still running after all they have huge amounts of money invested in sub prime. I think your right PJ they will most likely be next to crumble

Ah well - Lucid Dreaming is a great way to bide time while the markets recover.

The price is right!

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Originally Posted by pj

Ah well - Lucid Dreaming is a great way to bide time while the markets recover.

The price is right!

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:D he he i like your thinking mate

Th earth is an ecosystem and when the population of a certain species outruns the ecosystem's resource yield, negative things happen that force the population down by way of having too large a population.

As much as people deny it, humans are just animals. Smart (Some of us :P) we may be, we are just animals and the earth is our ecosystem.

It is indeed an inevitability. Either the population is reduced, or the resources are expanded to keep the population sustainable. So it's: Either we colonize space, and deal with this problem on other planets, or we destroy sections of our own population and at least attempt to make the population *realistically* sustainable.

Wow tangent

I'm ambivalent about the world, even given the bleak economic situation in the US, global warming, and the possibility of future large-scale conflicts.

Resources and ecosystems are being depleted, yet we may be on the verge of creating new resources and ecosystems, first as a stop-gap measure, then as a superior alternative to the reckless waste of the past. Global warming is a major concern, but well within the capacity of civilization to adapt to (painfully). Political conflicts rage on as fiercely as ever, but people still have intrinsic power, if not motivation, to right the ship of state. The economy looks grim, but people may just learn from the recession.

If any doom can be predicted, it can be mitigated. That, at least, is good enough to justify a little optimism.

The futurist/inventor Ray Kurzweil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_kurzweil, some of whose other predictions have come true, recently said that nanotechnology will enable solar power to advance to the point in twenty years that 100% of the world's energy could be supplied, making fossil fuels obsolete.

That would go a long way towards ending huge conflicts and improving the environment.

However, something I've wondered about before is this--what would happen if energy were free or extremely cheap? The cost of energy is what holds things in check to a certain degree. Maybe other resources would just be used up even faster without something to slow things down.

Moonbeam maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. Instead of thinking of the negative effects which free energy could bring to our economy (don't get me wrong, I know you think it's absolutely a good thing but like any good thinker, let's take into account the negatives here), perhaps think of it from, well, a less "economical" perspective. Instead of more economy-related problems, maybe simply more people will be unemployed -- but unemployed in a good way. As in, they will not need to work. What I am thinking here is a more utopian (socialist?) type society. Everyone gets free energy, maybe people can pay for additional amounts. But those who wish can simply live a good life without working, and less worrying about money? To be honest there really are way too many variables and facets to consider at this moment, but from a general perspective I believe that as more things become so cheap and come to the point where they are free, well, it can only be good. What I often do in situations like this (thinking about the future) is taking something we look over everyday or take for granted and apply the same concept to it. Imagine if, say, we all had to pay for water. As in, pay for it a LOT more than we have to now. Then think "hey, how would life be if we didn't have to pay for it."

^^^I hope so! That's a good way to look at it. I was just seeing the dark side, like the same as we have now but runaway consumption of everything.

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Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

I don't know whats happening but it seems like something big is coming around the corner and I don't know what but im excited.

I can only speculate but i think there will be onother depression and possibly in the next 2 years the USA might go into Iran. and that would be an automatic WWIII in my humble opinion...

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That makes you excited?

People are stupid, something big will come and kill millions. We will die because of other peoples stupidity, and childishness. I SERIOUSLY doubt we will ever change....i don't even think it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Dewitback

I too beileve this is the beginning of something big.

I believe that there are powers hidden from the general public, and have master plans to eventually create a one world order, in which we will have one currency and one rule. The people in power (some suggest the illuminati) i believe have planned certain events to occur so that the public will ask for things such as the VeriChip, World Peace (one world order) and things as such. The world will be fooled and scared into tyranny throught he means of mass media.

Lots of this is predicted in the book of revelations and in other parts of the bible. It even states that there will be a mark eithr on the forehead or hand, that if you don't have it you wont be able to buy or sell. This verichip may be a means to get people to implant chips in thier body so that the gov't can see where everyone is and what they are doing, and be able to turn off the chip so that criminals or wrongdoers may not participate in society (like open thier door with the chip, or buy things).

The bible also states a one world rule, where the gov't will be in control of everything so that God has no place in our lives anymore, beacuse the gov't will take care of it right? free healthcare, free education...

but wiehter or not the predicted depression occurs or not, something big will happen that will make the world want to unite under one power.

Think about it. 9/11 sets off a war allowed by the people through wanting revenge. The war costs billions, setting america and the world into a recession, people want to unite.

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The whole chip thing is against our own rights. There will be chaos if we got forced to be spied on, the people vs the government and guess who wins? the people, WAY more people.

The U.S. economy is always fluctuating. The world has always been full of nutjobs. We are within a few decades of settling space. As long as Islamofascists don't blow up the world, everything is going to be okay.

Wars will continue indefinetely. The only way they could stop is if we evolved into something more open towards religion and the balance between nature and economics.

I think it's an evolving process, probably we will continue growing in numbers for some time, and will soon reach the limit which can be sustained by our planet (I once heard a prediction that the limit is around 10 billion people). There will be famine and perhaps one or more nuclear wars, but I do not think that humanity will ever wipe itself out completely. Anyways, even if we did kill ourselves, the Earth would continue as it always has.. There will be development in the education and mental capabilities of men over time, perhaps heading toward a more peaceful future society.

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Originally Posted by george

I think it's an evolving process, probably we will continue growing in numbers for some time, and will soon reach the limit which can be sustained by our planet (I once heard a prediction that the limit is around 10 billion people).

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10 billion limit is possible, but not at our current rate of resource use. We are using about 25% more than our planet can replenish per year at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Abra

Wars will continue indefinetely. The only way they could stop is if we evolved into something more open towards religion and the balance between nature and economics.

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**** that religion sh1t!!!! we don't need to be open to any religion, we just need to stop being fuckterds, and help eachother, and stop worrying about human advancements, in technology, worry about finding cures or how to make lives easier for us, and everything else in the world. The more we advance, the more dangerous we become...worry about the human race, the planet, and everything else living on the planet rather then how big our technology peepers get.


What can religion do that will help us? nothing. Faith? no...you're just wanting, and wishing. It only effects 1 person, and that is you.

What can science do? a hell of a lot...fix this world up, change our lives, cure our diseases. Good science can do alot, hell of alot more then what rediculas religion can do.

Good science isn't just for "us" like religion, science if for everyone..it can fix everyone, and REAL results can happen, not wishing and blindness (praying and having it come true...zomg it was teh godz. Or was it going to happen nomatter what? yeah, that's it). Alot of what is wrong with this world is religion...then again science is also a big part of what's wrong with the world, but the bad science.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

**** that religion sh1t!!!! we don't need to be open to any religion, we just need to stop being fuckterds, and help eachother, and stop worrying about human advancements, in technology, worry about finding cures or how to make lives easier for us, and everything else in the world. The more we advance, the more dangerous we become...worry about the human race, the planet, and everything else living on the planet rather then how big our technology peepers get.


What can religion do that will help us? nothing. Faith? no...you're just wanting, and wishing. It only effects 1 person, and that is you.

What can science do? a hell of a lot...fix this world up, change our lives, cure our diseases. Good science can do alot, hell of alot more then what rediculas religion can do.

Good science isn't just for "us" like religion, science if for everyone..it can fix everyone, and REAL results can happen, not wishing and blindness (praying and having it come true...zomg it was teh godz. Or was it going to happen nomatter what? yeah, that's it). Alot of what is wrong with this world is religion...then again science is also a big part of what's wrong with the world, but the bad science.

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jeepers. You sound like a nazi that would pull a gun on a jew.

and what can religion do that will help us?

Job 6-8 If you sin, what difference could that make to God?
No matter how much you sin, will it matter to him?
Even if you're good, what would God get out of that?
Do you think he's dependent on your accomplishments?
The only ones who care whether you're good or bad
are your family and friends and neighbors.
God's not dependent on your behavior.

Basically people need to start realising what thier actions are doing to one another, we need to stop f*cking around and think to ourselves that the world is bigger than just our conciousness. Do you think mothers can let thier children play outside in the parks alone anymore? Can they let thier children go to the convinient store by themselves? How much longer until its unsafe to let your children play in the front yard alone? Can science fix that? How long has the war gone on in Iraq, and who knows how long it will continue? The only science I can think of to end the war is a nuclear bomb. How many jails are growing and constantly being overflooded with people who murder, steal, and rape? What we need to do is stop just thinking about ourselves, and think of everyone else, because thats who we effect here on earth, and its only getting worse.

Your negitivity toward spirituality seems to be not so different from the roman empire's negitivity, when they threw people who believed in God into the arena with lions while everyone paid to watch them get eaten alive.

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Originally Posted by Abra

10 billion limit is possible, but not at our current rate of resource use. We are using about 25% more than our planet can replenish per year at the moment.

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What resources and how does the planet replenish them? There is a unique cycle for every chemical, so I'm interested in what you mean by that statement.

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Originally Posted by Dewitback

jeepers. You sound like a nazi that would pull a gun on a jew.

and what can religion do that will help us?

Job 6-8 If you sin, what difference could that make to God?
No matter how much you sin, will it matter to him?
Even if you're good, what would God get out of that?
Do you think he's dependent on your accomplishments?
The only ones who care whether you're good or bad
are your family and friends and neighbors.
God's not dependent on your behavior.

Basically people need to start realising what thier actions are doing to one another, we need to stop f*cking around and think to ourselves that the world is bigger than just our conciousness. Do you think mothers can let thier children play outside in the parks alone anymore? Can they let thier children go to the convinient store by themselves? How much longer until its unsafe to let your children play in the front yard alone? Can science fix that? How long has the war gone on in Iraq, and who knows how long it will continue? The only science I can think of to end the war is a nuclear bomb. How many jails are growing and constantly being overflooded with people who murder, steal, and rape? What we need to do is stop just thinking about ourselves, and think of everyone else, because thats who we effect here on earth, and its only getting worse.

Your negitivity toward spirituality seems to be not so different from the roman empire's negitivity, when they threw people who believed in God into the arena with lions while everyone paid to watch them get eaten alive.

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Religion does nothing to make the world better as a whole, it just makes yourself better with the teachings.


Religion is not spirituality, either...

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Religion is not spirituality, either...

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i agree