God Particle or Infinity?

Do you think they will ever find the elusive "God Particle" the smallest indivisible unit of matter, or will particles keep breaking down into smaller and smaller units?

My money's on an infinite number of smaller particles. I also think it goes infinitely in the other direction as you look at things from a larger and larger perspective. Some sort of fractal model, with the whole contained within the part. My guess is eventually we won't need to smash particles together, but will be able predict smaller particles mathematically, kind of like calculating PI.

Infinity.

The god particle will be found, and it will turn out to be a tiny universe with it's own god particles which are also tiny universes with their own god particles which are also tiny universes with...

Quantum physcicists say that matter stops cannot be broken down past a certain level, that energy is what composes the smallest particles. They also say time had a beginning, which might be true, but they also say that not all events are determined. That last point makes me really wonder about those folks because I know they are wrong about it and would bet all four of my limbs against 50 cents on it. It seems like time would have no beginning and matter would be infinitely divisible, but I am not convinced and cannot prove it.

By the way, how can matter be made up of energy if energy is the capacity for matter to do work? I am not saying there is not a good answer. I just don't know what it is.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

By the way, how can matter be made up of energy if energy is the capacity for matter to do work? I am not saying there is not a good answer. I just don't know what it is.

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http://www.pa.msu.edu/~yang/NuclearBomb.jpg

Isn't that energy made from matter?

I don't know much (anything really) about the God Particle, other than it is the last predicted by the Standard Model of physics. But, even the Higg's boson, or the God Particle is just a part of the Higg's field which explains, among many other things I'm sure, why the elementary particles have mass. Maybe someone can fill me in some.

Anyhow, I do not believe the universe has an infinite level of complexity. Beyond matter, I believe that at some yet inconceivable level of reality there exists some force, some field or what have you from which everything originates, and everything is dependent upon. I also believe that mathematically we will eventually be able to tear back the layers and some day explain everything. Discovering the God Particle, even if it the last particle (as in, thing with finite mass), will only raise more questions about the nature of matter and the universe.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Isn't that energy made from matter?

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Yes, and matter is made of energy, they are the same thing in different forms. The smallest theoretical particle is a string, which makes up everything, matter, energy, space, time, everything in all 11 dimensions.

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

Yes, and matter is made of energy, they are the same thing in different forms. The smallest theoretical particle is a string, which makes up everything, matter, energy, space, time, everything in all 11 dimensions.

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Sorry, but you're gonna hive to define "dimension" on that one...

:? You don't know the definition of dimension?

The theoretical 'lower boundary' for matter that you're referring to is the Planck length, which is about 10^-20 times smaller than the radius of a single proton. At that scale, matter exists only as packets of energy interacting with one another. How this produces mass, we have no fucking idea.

The Higgs-Boson (aka the God particle) is the theoretical particle assigned to give matter its mass. Physicists are really good at making up particles to explain forces and properties (I know they do the best they can, we're all just waiting for the next big break through). Just look at the graviton. Hopefully the guys over at CERN will be able to smash something together next year and give us an answer.

What I find more amazing (and somewhat disheartening) is that in order for us to experiment and solve the Grand Unifying Theory, we'd need to generate subatomic collisions in the order of 10¹⁴ GeV. How much is that you say? Well, we'd need to build a subatomic collider with a diameter equal to roughly the orbit of Pluto :(

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Sorry, but you're gonna hive to define "dimension" on that one...

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This is incredibly watered down, but its still a fantastic way to break someone into string theory, M-theory, and understand a little about quantum mechanics without breaking your noodle in the process.

I present to you, "The Elegant Universe", a PBS Nova 3-hour miniseries. Set aside an afternoon or two and bang it out.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

I present to you, "The Elegant Universe", a PBS Nova 3-hour miniseries. Set aside an afternoon or two and bang it out.

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I have this on DVD, and recommend it as well. It's a little corny in places, but the graphics do an excellent job of getting a concept across.

Just make sure you watch them top to bottom and not left to right like I started to do a few years ago. You'll be confused and wondering what the hell is going on haha.

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

:? You don't know the definition of dimension?

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There are HUNREDS of ways to define "dimension".

- A reality
- A spacial dimension
- A member of a list
- The number of ways something can move

Etc...

Ok, it was a trick question, there is no particle only

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

The theoretical 'lower boundary' for matter that you're referring to is the Planck length, which is about 10^-20 times smaller than the radius of a single proton. At that scale, matter exists only as packets of energy interacting with one another. How this produces mass, we have no fucking idea.

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Max Plank didn't believe in particles, he believed in waves.

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
-Max Plank

I'm just biding my time until all those stubborn particle people die off and we can finally make some progress.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

There are HUNREDS of ways to define "dimension".

- A reality
- A spacial dimension
- A member of a list
- The number of ways something can move

Etc...

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Well this is a discussion about physics so I was using the definition of a spacial dimension:

length
height
width
time
flat space-time
Calabi-Yau spaces
G2 manifolds
...