Not necessarily. We already know about convergent evolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolutionQuote:
Originally Posted by juroara
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Not necessarily. We already know about convergent evolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolutionQuote:
Originally Posted by juroara
I don't know exactly how the Schumann resonances work, but if a brain was able to send and receive thoughts in the ELF band then maybe telepathy would be possible.
I saw a similar show to you, but they were 'blimp' or 'balloon' like creatures that floated through the clouds of gas giants. They were however not intelligent, they were just filter feeders, like whales. A low gravitational pull also means a thinner atmosphere. If you can't make fire, you've already shot yourself in the foot for space-flight technology. The other foot is electricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamworld
Was that a mockumentary? I think I watched it… If I recall correctly, there were two probes, Ike and Leo, that visited an alien planet to collect data, and they met creatures that were walking forests, purple spine-shooting cacti and birds that fly by methane jet propulsion and skewer their prey in flight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamworld
Anyway, the intelligent creatures met the last surviving probe, but when it tried to launch one of it’s scanning discs it took it as a threat and knocked it to the ground.
Anyway, if you know those plastic-bubble blowing things, where you put a dot of plastic-rubber on a small plastic straw and blow (say you use the color purple) and purposely mess up and have the balloons mash together symmetrically, that’s exactly what they looked like. (You know, how when the bubbles clump they get veiny and darker purple)
To those who have no idea what I was talking about, they were basically floating purple transparent gas-bags with tentacles, about the size of an elephant.
Yeah that show was about 4 years ago.
Yea! We are talking about the same show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Sorry but I think people are grasping at straws with this telekinesis stuff. Magnetic fields? What would that do? Attract lumps of iron perhaps, and repel any magnets in the room. But virtually any object you're likely to come across? It'd do nothing. Moving ionic compounds about with magnetism? Uh, how would that work then?
About sentient aliens... I reckon they'll be quite like us. Cellular, protein based, RNA or something similar, etcetera. I'm pretty sure that carbon based is the only way to go in this universe. No other compounds are complex enough. I also reckon they'd need to be able to manipulate their surroundings well, though. A possibility that springs to mind is a marine octopus-like creature. A communication method is also necessary probably... which would have to be carried by some sort of wave, so that means an organ similar to the vocal chords or perhaps a visual communication system.
I'm still waiting for Minervas Phoenix to come back and explain to me why I was over-reaching in my assumptions. Thread hit-and-running is easy to do. But sticking around to back up your position is where the fun lies, and where your growth comes from.
I didn't even say you were over-reaching in assumptions. How do you process your information? Not very carefully. Dolphins for one do not really fit entirely into the rigid paradigm of conditions for intelligent life that you stated. Also you cannot compare humans to space traveling species because we do not travel through space yet. If you observe carefully humans are doing more damage than good to the planet. Intelligent or not. I don't think you have met a species that has traveled through space effectively and consistently either. The moon is right beside us so that does not count as far distance or collective and consistently effective space travel. A couple of humans went there only once, and had to come back right away. Several years pass and humanity fails to travel through space to other systems, we just pollute the planet and use up resources for the most part. I don't know if you have noticed we also live in a multidimensional universe. Having physical arms and legs is not the main concern for space travel. Just like you don't need to evolve into a spaceship. Intelligence is the main concern. All I'm saying is you post like you speak for everyone who is the most intelligent without considering the situation properly. Not that I want to argue with you, you wanted a response so you got one. I can't do much more it's just my opinion.Quote:
I'm still waiting for Minervas Phoenix to come back and explain to me why I was over-reaching in my assumptions. Thread hit-and-running is easy to do. But sticking around to back up your position is where the fun lies, and where your growth comes from.
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you may surprised to know that the dolphin brain is actually much larger than the human brain. Dolphins have two hemispheres just like humans however, theirs are split into four lobes instead of three. The fourth lobe in the dolphin's brain actually hosts all of the senses, whereas in a human, the senses are split. Some believe that having all of the senses in one lobe allow the dolphin to make immediate and often complicated judgments that are well beyond the scope of a human ability.
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A new scientific paper published in an international journal sheds light on the previously disputed intelligence of whales and dolphins
Whales and Dolphins are indeed highly intelligent, as has long been believed – this is the conclusion of a new paper from Mark Simmonds, International Director of Science for WDCS, the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society. The research stands in stark contrast to some recent reports that such animals fail to exhibit intelligence.
In his paper, Into the Brains of Whales, published this month in Applied Animal Behaviour Science, Simmonds puts forward a compelling argument for the highly developed intelligence of both whales and dolphins. He asserts that, rather than brain anatomy or size, which is sometimes used to indicate cognitive ability, more accurate indicators of intelligence can be found in behaviour and social structures.
One such indicator is that of self-awareness. Bottlenose dolphins have been shown to be able to recognise themselves in a mirror, a behaviour that until recently has only been recorded in humans and great apes. Similarly, tool use can be seen as a mark of intelligence. In a masterstroke of innovation, some Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphins carry sponges on the ends of their beaks to protect them when foraging for food on the sea bed.
Evidence of the typically human emotions, grief, parental love and joy, as well as the existence of complex social interactions and structures, are further indicators of the highly developed intelligence of whales and dolphins. In one example, despite the risk of dehydration, stranding and shark attack, a group of false killer whales floated for 3 days in the shallows of the straits of Florida, USA to protect an injured male. Such was their cohesion and reliance upon the group, individuals became agitated when rescuers tried to separate them, calming only when reunited.
The potential impacts of threats such as whaling, pollution and fishing nets on such highly intelligent animals, may be far greater and wider ranging than is currently thought. In drastically reducing populations, whalers may have destroyed not just numerous individuals, but also the cultural knowledge they had relating to exploitation of certain habitats and areas, ultimately altering the evolution of the species.
Simmonds comments. ‘It is the behaviour of animals that tells us about their mental capacities, not brain size or anatomy. Anyone who has interacted with dolphins usually swiftly and intuitively realises that they are meeting intelligent, emotional and extraordinary animals’.
In his paper he concludes. "Our relationship with these animals therefore needs to move to a new paradigm recognising these animals as unique individuals, communities, societies and cultures and valuing them as such"
Am I the only one getting needlessly updated for this thread on email?
Reality check: There were 6 manned missions with successful moon landing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
There are currently plans (and it's not just NASA) to go to the moon again, make a moon base and eventually land on Mars.
Scatterbrain I think the moon is a bit out of reach for most of us. I haven't been there lately. Have you? And my gosh Mars? That would be a big achievement for the couple of people who would set foot on it. But then they would get old and die anyway and no-one else can go there still so what's the difference. It's right next door to earth anyway....How big is the universe. Should ya get a medal for that one? Considering over population is using up food resources and the trees are cut down faster than new ones can grow I think more intelligence is needed to learn how to live on A planet first. Rather than run away to travel to another one. Wouldn't that be the least intelligent thing? At the current rate the earth won't tolerate us much longer. So maybe a base on mars or the moon? But will the public be smart enough to migrate? Like how could you move them off the couch? You would have to spoon feed them something. Some propaganda about Osama bin laden on the moon. Even then you would need some kind of instructions from the wiggles who could design a space map for them to follow. Then you have the problem of them all actually going into space. What a bunch of monkeys that would be. How could they decide where to put Mcdonalds? It would be pretty scary for them. I would be scared for them.
No I think I'm being a bit harsh.....It is true that give us a few thousand light years one of us might reach Pluto if they can find a cure for old age. Fingers crossed...But can't even go to Venus because the fuel prices are too high..at least that small handful of people have 6 manned missions under their belt. Not woman missions. Just man missions.
So in conclusion.....Aliens are watching us. And we aren't space travelers yet.
I hope this essay has convinced you.
No, it wouldn't. As we are right now, all it takes is one big asteroid/nuclear war/epidemic and then there's no more mankind, forever.Quote:
Wouldn't that be the least intelligent thing?
I didn't say we are space travellers, but "space travellers" itself is a very vague term anyway. We will however soon start colonizing nearby space, and once technology allows, maybe we'll be able to colonize earth-like planets.
Right now the biggest barrier to space exploration is the tiny budgets space programs get.
I beleive that interestingly enough the old sci-fi stereotype of the "violent conquering alien" could actually be quite accurate. As stated earlier they are quite likely to have evolved from predators as intelligence is usually more profound in this type of animal. Us humans think we're warlike but if you look at our past we have been quite peaceful omnivores for millions of years. In fact it was only about 3 million years ago meat really became a part of our diet. It's fair to say that the possibility of intelligence evolving in witty predators could be much more likely, and of course they're more agressive so races even more violent than us may be common.
I reckon if telepathy or telekenesis was penguinly possible it would have been developed in the wild by now. But there's a chance I may be wrong because any number of factors on Earth could have prevented it (and how do we know animals aren't telepathic?).
Possibly because it defies biology, physics, and any empirical observation whatsoever.
But I'm sure there are other reasons. :|
Not in the slightest no, because your 'essay' was at the very least condescending to a great many people, and at most it was misinformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I provided perfectly reasonable explanations in over half a dozen posts as to why any creature capable of spaceflight would need to have certain properties or attributes, while you insulted the general public and completely missed the point of the topic (treatment of the environment isn't a factor of 'intelligence' here).
Ok Alextanium sorry. I was getting a bit carried away in my amusement. But you get the general idea.
But don't you think it would be smarter to prevent it in the first place. By travelling to another planet. You still bring the problems with you, you don't leave them behind they come with you anyway.....the same problem will come up. Then you are going to leave that planet? Isn't that really simple to understand why that isn't a good idea? Sometimes it confuses me how simple things cannot be understood. It may buy some time, but destroying every planet is not exactly a graceful way to live. I would feel bad. I think security does not depend on how many planets you can accupy but your aproach to living in general. If the planet can survive. We can survive.Quote:
[in reference to running away from the planet after destroying it and how I thought it was the least intelligent thing]No, it wouldn't. As we are right now, all it takes is one big asteroid/nuclear war/epidemic and then there's no more mankind, forever.
Before that will happen. A few problems will have to be delt or I don't think it will be possible. I think others that have already mastered this are going to make sure we are no threat out there.Quote:
I didn't say we are space travellers, but "space travellers" itself is a very vague term anyway. We will however soon start colonizing nearby space, and once technology allows, maybe we'll be able to colonize earth-like planets.
Is it really a budget, or peoples lack of desire to go anywhere or do anything. There is millions of people. So what is so tiny about it. I'm sure if co-operation were learned, something could be done. Or is there maybe more to the story. Like is something preventing masses of people from having any attention and effort directed at such a project.Quote:
Right now the biggest barrier to space exploration is the tiny budgets space programs get.
I don't mean to insult the public, and I don't know about you. But I'm not just some kind of mammal
living in a box that cannot understand there is an entire universe out there. I want to get out there and utilize technology. But I think people want to watch television and drink beer in their spare time, and divided against each other at work. Which doesn't seem directed at anything ultimately that constructive to tell you the truth. I don't think there is any co-operation going on but the opposite. I think we are very isolated and divided. So yeah we can't manage something like going into space. But don't mistake that for not enough money in the budget. Even a small portion of money from each person in the world is enough resources to invent technology using science, that would no doubt achieve something more lasting than a trip to the moon and back. It is these basic things that people cannot seem to understand that amazes me. When I see statements like. There is not enough budget. I just think wow....are these people on drugs or in a special school? How do they come up with these things...These strange incomprehensible incredibly simplistic excuses. Who would be satisfied with that reason. Not enough budget. Come to think of it, couldn't you justify anything with that. Why is the planet not clean enough....not enough buget. Why is there war and terrorist. Not enough buget. Why are we stupid. Not enough budget in schools. Why is the health system failing. not enough budget. Not enough budget. And...not enough budget. More like, not enough intelligence. Not enough will. Not enough action.
I'm going to have to put this thread down.
What does any of that have anything to do with if a species similar in appearance to humans can evolve on another planet and become a space-faring race? How did you make the leap from my assumptions on the possibly evolution of other species to the socio-economic problems of human beings and why our space endeavours have been basically non-existent since 1975. And the space-budget is the problem. Back in the 60's, 5% of the US budget was NASA. Today, in 2008, NASA's budget makes up 0.6% of the annual budget, when the average American thinks NASA gets at least 24% of the budget.
I think you missed the point by at least the distance between Earth and the moon you are so fond of referencing.
I didn't mention anything about migrating, I talked about colonization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
You don't know what's the maximum speed one can attain with advanced technology, you also don't know where is the closest space travelling species, if there's any.Quote:
Before that will happen. A few problems will have to be delt or I don't think it will be possible. I think others that have already mastered this are going to make sure we are no threat out there.
Yes budget is a big problem, as you can see in the percentage mentioned by Alex.Quote:
blabla (condescending lulziness reguarding my budget statement)
And it gets worse: adding together the budget from all of the world's space agencies (the ones with launch capability), you get something around 0.05% of the world's GDP, not 1%, not even 0.1%.
I still think a budget is not a problem. :lol:
convergent evolution is about similar traits happening because of similar environmentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark75
why are alien planets going to be like earth? I would expect the universe, as vast as it is, to be diverse. and if we are finding that alien life looks a lot like ours, I think it is something to question that this then means, there are worlds like ours
to even think there is another planet out there with oceans of water, oxygen, and land masses with volcanic activity, is - nothing short of amazing.
I have only one response to that ridiculous claim:
30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
Mull over that one for a while. :|
The hubble ultra deep field helps to illustrate too: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...deep_field.jpg
Each object in the pic, as faint and small as it may be, is a galaxy. And remember this picture is just a small section of the known universe, the Hubble could have been pointed in another direction and there are more galaxies beyond all you can see in there.
To believe no earth like planets or different planets that harbor life exist out there, one must have a very wrong idea about the size of a galaxy.
Because those planets can support life.Quote:
Originally Posted by juroara
I'm not sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying there are such planets or that there aren't?Quote:
Originally Posted by juroara
neitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark75
I simply said to think of such planets - not that there is or isn't