I'm going to continue repeating myself until it sinks in:
The burden of proof is on you to give us a reason to think this article is anything more than pointless drivel from a possible Scientologist, and therefore worth discussing at all.
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I'm going to continue repeating myself until it sinks in:
The burden of proof is on you to give us a reason to think this article is anything more than pointless drivel from a possible Scientologist, and therefore worth discussing at all.
wow.....
That is not rational or mature. I don't think being a Scientologist has anything to do with anything. Other than you acting like one by repeating yourself as if shouting in big bold letters despite flying in the face of reality. The article is about why antidepressants don't work.
Folks. This is like facing a brainwashed cult or something 0_0
Scientologists believe that psychiatry is a fake profession and that all forms of psychiatric medication are placebos. They are bat-shit insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
This is why it's important to know something about the things you claim before you claim them.
:shock:
I already said I am not making any claims. I didn't write the article. I'm done trying to clarify myself to you. Instead I'm going to ignore anything other than useful discussion from now on. Which is what I should have done in the first place instead of getting carried away with other peoples blindness and distractions.
Readers, Sorry for helping to de-rail the entire thread. I'll try and put it back together later somehow :?
You have the burden of proving that the CDC actually said all of that. For all we know, YOU said it. I would even venture to say that you did make it up yourself, if not Tom Cruise or L. Ron Hubbard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
That doesn't look like a link. Please describe how it is one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Are you a scientologist?
I did discuss the article. I said that it is a crock of shit and asked you to prove that the CDC made the claims in it. I have read what the CDC has to say about antidepressants, and it is not what you posted. They have said that antidepressants are the most prescribed medication and that they are overly prescribed, but I have never seen where they said antidepressants don't work for anybody. I know first hand and second hand that such a claim would be dangerously incorrect, and I am far from convinced that the CDC even made such a claim. Can you prove it? I could post something saying the CDC said that depression does not even exist, but I would not be able to prove the CDC really said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
That speaks volumes about what your attitude about depression is and what kind of person you are, and it is a very ignorant comment. It discredits my mental health? How is your absurd comment relevant if you are not talking about my rationality? What do you mean? It discredits my ability to be reliably happy, but not my ability to be rational, so what is your point? For your information, I was a mental health case manager AFTER I went through those depressions. What I went through is part of the reason I ended up majoring in psychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
What were you saying about not meaning to be disrespectful? You have lost your credibility when it comes to being honest.
I believe you. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
The medicine they deserve? And what the fuck would that be? Tell me some names of depression medications that are not antidepressants. :? What do you suggest?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Are you a scientologist?
Bingo. You don't know what the CDC's position is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I did not conclude that you are a scientologist. I asked if you were one. So it is you who jumped to a conclusion.
Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I have discussed the article. I said I think it is false, and I explained why. How else may I help you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I still don't have any reason to believe the statistics are true because you won't give a credible link.
Yes, I in return called you a liar. You lied, and I proved it. Your claim about my supposed dishonesty came out of nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I am not angry. I just argue aggressively with dangerous disinformation. Even if I were angry, it would not stop you from answering my question. And again, I did not call you a scientologist. I asked if you were one, and it was a very legitimate question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Medication that treats depression is called antidepressant medication. You say that antidepressants don't work, yet you say you will get back to me on what depression medication depressed people should take. That makes no sense.
EDIT: Where did your post go?
:) there you go....a double post hey.
ok I don't know exactly what the CDC's position is and it would be interesting to see some more detailed studies on antidepressants. But tom cruise did not write the article. What is with the mad jumping to conclusions all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
No. I said I wasn't already!Quote:
Are you a scientologist?
That is not discussing the article that is your opinion on the situation. That's commenting on it. Not discussing it. We havn't even started to discuss it I have being too busy trying to define what discussion is to you and how I didn't write the article. During this time I've answered peoples complaints with their failure to understand or read what sources are in the article and they have asked me to find them for them to do research for them. To give the exact web address link. And then this scientologist rubbish keeps getting preached into things when it is off topic. I don't care about scientology ok stop mentioning scientology. I only need to discuss the studies and outcomes and how accurate the article is and why. Scientology is a differernt subject.Quote:
I did discuss the article. I said that it is a crock of shit and asked you to prove that the CDC made the claims in it. I have read what the CDC has to say about antidepressants, and it is not what you posted. They have said that antidepressants are the most prescribed medication and that they are overly prescribed, but I have never seen where they said antidepressants don't work for anybody. I know first hand and second hand that such a claim would be dangerously incorrect, and I am far from convinced that the CDC even made such a claim. Can you prove it? I could post something saying the CDC said that depression does not even exist, but I would not be able to prove the CDC really said it.
If that is true I apologize. I'd rather stick to the topic at hand. Somehow. If that is possible. If we ever get around to it. :DQuote:
That speaks volumes about what your attitude about depression is and what kind of person you are, and it is a very ignorant comment. It discredits my mental health? How is your absurd comment relevant if you are not talking about my rationality? What do you mean? It discredits my ability to be reliably happy, but not my ability to be rational, so what is your point? For your information, I was a mental health case manager AFTER I went through those depressions. What I went through is part of the reason I ended up majoring in psychology.
Sorry if you are offended but you are calling me a liar aswel. I'm know I'm not lieing or being dishonest so in my mind it only leaves you that might have the dishonest agenda. Your incredibly defensive about all this labelling me and so forth.Quote:
What were you saying about not meaning to be disrespectful? You have lost your credibility when it comes to being honest.
I'll get back to you on what the best medication may involve. That is a good question but to bad you are angry, swearing and calling me a scientologist. That is just not resonable. Neither is that big bold writing at the top by Alextanium.Quote:
The medicine they deserve? And what the fuck would that be? Tell me some names of depression medications that are not antidepressants. :? What do you suggest?
i'll believe antidepressants work, when you only have to take it once. seems to me they mostly create an artificial emotion but does not solve the root of the problem
but we can't solve the root of the problem if we remain in denial there is a problem. instead we just say, thats just the way your brain works. every depressed person i've met whose told me its just the way their brain works has had real life issues and problems that logically would lead to depression. I have not met a single depressed person who had no emotional reason for being depressed.
it is a bandaid, not a cure, not that bandaids are bad. but you shouldn't get the two confused.
Of course anti-depressants work. They do exactly what they are supposed to do, which is to make the pharmaceutical companies piles of money.
OMG THE LABCOAT MAFIA ~~~~~~Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cusp
LULZ WE INVENT DISEASES AND NOBODY NOTICES ~~~
Well it's true, if you look at the scientifical experiments testing antidepressants against placebo (a test which every drug must undergo to see if it's efficient or not) then you'll see that the antidepressants only work a few % better than placebo. Therefor it's obvious this is all about the money. Natural drugs are illegal, but they use those illegal drugs into the legal meds.
First, the word is scientific, get it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Next, what experiments? (link to sources please)
Third, even if the anti-depressants didn't work any better than a placebo, it doesn't make a difference. The aim of the drug is to combat depression, if it works well then it works, regardless of whether it is the active ingredient in the drug or the act of taking the drug.
Your last sentence about natural drugs doesn't make grammatical sense.
I think the largest problem is the over medication of americans. Especially in children. A lot of people are taking the stuff which probably shouldn't be, and they often have poor reactions to it.
I dont know why people are acting like this is big shocking news though. Theres been news of this sort of stuff for years, and a lot of the companies have been sued and stuff over it. I don't know why anyone would accuse someone of making it up, when its been in the news for years.
The claims Minvervas was making were false, and we asked her to give us back up for what she was saying so we could know that the CDC specifically made the specific claims she said she made. Are you saying that the CDC in fact did make the specific claims Minvervas was making? Did the CDC blanketly say, "Antidepressants don't work."?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Actually going over it, it seems to be fairly true. No where in that first post, did it claim the CDC said anything of the such. What it says is the CDC recently announced that "antidepressants are now most prescribed drugs on the market today" Which seems to be a true statement.
It goes on to say that the FDA has been warning people of increased sucide rates among people taking them. If you go to the FDA website, that is infact a true statement. Then it also claims to double the sucide rate, now I am unsure of the number but it sounds accurate.
Doing a quick look up, the reports of people killing others, do seem to be true.
Now most of the other stuff, such as saying they only work as well as suger pills, does not give the study that was done to find it. Some quick searches show that there are studies to support that, though most of them are not definitive. So saying its proven is obviously a stretch. It would probably be more accurate to say, some studies put the usefulness of them to question.
Minvervas was challenged on her statement, "Antidepressants don't work." That is a false statement. She was also challenged on her statement that the CDC said that. That too is a false statement.
She never said the cdc said that, and the article doesn't say it either. What she did do was put up an article, which shows the questionable nature of many of the drugs, and then asked people to discuss it. There is more than enough information there to look it up. While all the claims are not proven, there are sources that support them. So its not all made up or anything.
Read the title of the thread, and then read the first sentence in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Exactly. She asked, "Do antidepressants work?" Which is a question, she posed for us to debate. Her first sentence, "Not according to this." which means just what it says. This article make it seem like they dont work at all.
Or did you mean the setenece afterward, which said. "This past week the CDC released some very shocking news - antidepressants are now officially the most prescribed drugs on the market today." Which again says, the CDC has announced that antidepressants are the most prescribed drugs on the market. Which they did indeed say. So its all true so far.
So we go down a few more lines, and here it says the "#1 In 2004 the FDA began to warn the public that they were seeing an increase in suicides among youth with the use of antidepressant medications." Which gives a source the FDA and a time, 2004. Now if you look it up, the FDA has put out public warnings of this nature. So again, I think it true.
Then you continue down the post, and a lot of them give sources, while a few do not. Never does the claim that the CDC says they do not work come up.
She said the article says antidepressants don't work, which it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Depression is a result of life events that cause a chemical imbalance, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Chemicals fix the chemical imbalance, not the source of the chemical imbalance. So, no, they dont help. They are a fucking bandaid.
Some people have natural neurochemical imbalances that are not caused by outside events. Antidepressants are not only helpful to those people, but completely necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
5-HTP = Mood Lifter.
The term antidepressants is a bit too general of a term to be using when publishing an article making such strong statements about a varied amount of substances.
Perhaps certain studies on certain drugs have show a plausible link between, for instance, Prozac and increased suicide rate for young people - but that doesn't mean the same is true for Lexapro or Wellbutrin.
There are entire classes of different antidepressants (SSRI, MAOI, etc - a good list is available here) and I just don't see how all the claims made in the original post could apply to all these substances, which have different mechanisms towards how they function and effect the brain?
That being said, I do find it very troublesome some of the claims made here, even if I am skeptical of it all.
But its fascinating nevertheless, and I'm happy to have a good discussion on it.
What type of drug is Ridilin or Concerta?