Third parties, who do you like more in the election

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Originally Posted by snoop

I still fail to see how that that's my fault and I should pay for it. If I feel like giving to charity, that's one thing, but forcing me to pay for others is different. The whole redistribution-of-wealth thing doesn't sit well for me.

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redistribution of wealth bothers you?

do you have any idea how much a bugger flipper MAKES monetary wise for their industry, an HOUR, in comparison to how much they actually get paid for their work?

if the distribution of wealth was fair, that is you get paid for your fair share, NO ONE WOULD BE POOR

we have poor because someone on top, CEOs especially, think their employees are worth CRAP

do you realize the purpose of MINIMUM WAGE is to keep people off the streets? is to ensure that the working man makes enough money to pay his bills? is to ensure, that no working man is in POVERTY?

minimum wage no longer meets the minimum standard to keep you above poverty. rather, it keeps you IN POVERTY because you are constantly in dept - or living with mom and dad.

my sister used to have your attitude. used to get angry at the thought of some poor jobless slob getting a penny of her hard income money. that was until, she herself was jobless and desperately looking for a job for months. that was until, her credit cards bounced and she was hundreds of dollars in dept, having done nothing wrong. until you yourself hit rock bottom, you will never know how easy it is for ANYONE to be in a position where they find themselves without a job. Or even in a transitional shitty job that doesn't pay its worth, leaving you in dept because of prior bills you can no longer afford. so just a warning. before passing judgment on poor Americans, look in the mirror.

we are first world country. not a shitty third world starving country. our minimum standard of living, is not a box and one meal a week. this is a first world country, even poor have to pay gas. this is a first world country, most people still need cars to get to work. you need electricity, running and clean water. this is a first world country, YOU SHOULD HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

how much money do you have to pay to be protected by police? whether or not you pay taxes, you are protected. that is your right as an American citizen. does that piss you off as well? that someone who doesn't pay taxes still has those rights??? welcome to a first world country. welcome to the new millennium. health insurance should also be a RIGHT.

if you don't want your money to help poor americans everywhere. then start demanding why minimum wage isn't functioning. why minimum wage isn't gauranteeing an income level that can afford all the necessities of American living, including health insurance. realize, if minimum wage was doing its job, we wouldn't even need food stamps!!!

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Originally Posted by juroara

redistribution of wealth bothers you?

do you have any idea how much a bugger flipper MAKES monetary wise for their industry, an HOUR, in comparison to how much they actually get paid for their work?

if the distribution of wealth was fair, that is you get paid for your fair share, NO ONE WOULD BE POOR

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If a person owns a company, all of that is his right. He is not obligated to even hire anybody or even to have a business in the first place. Business owners are shallow, greedy assholes in most cases. But guess what. It is that quality that makes the business work. If you redistribute wealth too much, the business owners quit caring about even having businesses, and then things suck for everybody. That is why socialism is history's failure story and capitalism is history's success story.

Our "poor" aren't really poor. Tons of them are fat, and pretty much all of them have cars, cell phones, and entertainment systems. Do you know why our "poor" are so rich? Because of capitalism.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If a person owns a company, all of that is his right. He is not obligated to even hire anybody or even to have a business in the first place. Business owners are shallow, greedy assholes in most cases. But guess what. It is that quality that makes the business work. If you redistribute wealth too much, the business owners quit caring about even having businesses, and then things suck for everybody. That is why socialism is history's failure story and capitalism is history's success story.

Our "poor" aren't really poor. Tons of them are fat, and pretty much all of them have cars, cell phones, and entertainment systems. Do you know why our "poor" are so rich? Because of capitalism.

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The reason our poor are "so rich" is because of the money they can get from welfare. That money comes from the rich, who got their money by exploiting the workers across the world! And socialism isn't histories greatest failure.

For example, look at http://www.cubatruth.org/

Also remember that the Soviet Union's economy expanded rapidly under Stalin! How did Russia become a super power in just a matter of decades, when it had been so pathetically poor before, if socialism didn't work?

Also, which country sent the first satellite to space and the first man and woman to space?

Also, if it wasn't for Russia, then how do you think world war 2 would have ended?

Stop pretending that socialism doesn't work. The Soviet Union fell because traitors came to power and made the government revisionist. The same thing happened in China.

Its easy for you to say that capitalism works, but how well is it doing in Latin America, Africa, and Asia?

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

The reason our poor are "so rich" is because of the money they can get from welfare. That money comes from the rich, who got their money by exploiting the workers across the world! And socialism isn't histories greatest failure.

For example, look at http://www.cubatruth.org/

Also remember that the Soviet Union's economy expanded rapidly under Stalin! How did Russia become a super power in just a matter of decades, when it had been so pathetically poor before, if socialism didn't work?

Also, which country sent the first satellite to space and the first man and woman to space?

Also, if it wasn't for Russia, then how do you think world war 2 would have ended?

Stop pretending that socialism doesn't work. The Soviet Union fell because traitors came to power and made the government revisionist. The same thing happened in China.

Its easy for you to say that capitalism works, but how well is it doing in Latin America, Africa, and Asia?

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Welfare is a big bonus, but even the poor people who don't have welfare have the luxuries I mentioned.

All of the world's richest countries are capitalistic. Remember that I am talking about real versions of capitalism and not watered down versions like they have in South America and other places. The real thing works extremely well.

The Soviet Union under Stalin did not have as good of an economic system as capitalist countries, but it worked as well as it did because Stalin killed people for pretty much anything. The fear of death got things done, but even that is not as powerful of a motivator as greed. Later rulers used way too much of what the government had to compete with the U.S. in the arms race and the space race and in their attempt to take over the world with their very unfair and oppressive form of government. That irresponsibility combined with the futility of socialism is the reason the Soviet Union does not even exist any more.

The Soviet Union was full of businesses that were half ass. The restaurants would have about half of the items that were on the menus, and it would often take two hours for people to get their food. Why would it be any different? There was no owner all boned up about making money. So why would anybody not do a half ass job? That is an example of how things went there. If businesses suck that bad, the economy severely suffers. Money was not getting pumped into the economy like it needed to be.

Tell me something... Fear of death aside, what is the fuel that would make socialism work? What is the driving force in it? In other words, what would ever make anybody give a damn about giving their best effort to do an excellent job with a business? Why would they ever do anything more than simply getting by? I have asked that a great deal, and nobody has ever had an answer for me. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The Soviet Union under Stalin did not have as good of an economic system as capitalist countries, but it worked as well as it did because Stalin killed people for pretty much anything. The fear of death got things done, but even that is not as powerful of a motivator as greed. Later rulers used way too much of what the government had to compete with the U.S. in the arms race and the space race and in their attempt to take over the world with their very unfair and oppressive form of government. That irresponsibility combined with the futility of socialism is the reason the Soviet Union does not even exist any more.

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Stalin killed reactionaries and counter revolutionaries. Death wasn't the motivation! Its because the proletariat believed that a communist world was possible, and they were going to try to make it a reality.

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Tell me something... Fear of death aside, what is the fuel that would make socialism work? What is the driving force in it? In other words, what would ever make anybody give a damn about giving their best effort to do an excellent job with a business? Why would they ever do anything more than simply getting by? I have asked that a great deal, and nobody has ever had an answer for me. Do you?

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Why do you have hobbies? Your hobbies can be productive. For instance, why do some people make open source programs? Perhaps it could be because (GASP) they enjoy it?

Why do some people want to work at NASA? Perhaps its because the like building things?

What about mechanics who like to tinker with there car? Why wouldn't they also offer their services to others?

What about people who enjoy raising live stock and having a farm?

People would do what they find interesting.

Also, pay in the Soviet Union was not equal. People who worked harder were given bonuses, but no one was ever given the ridiculous amounts of money that CEOs in the US make.

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Stalin killed reactionaries and counter revolutionaries. Death wasn't the motivation! Its because the proletariat believed that a communist world was possible, and they were going to try to make it a reality.

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So people who ran businesses and factories and such were not afraid of Stalin and his evil gang? I know I wouldn't have been screwing up with him as dictator. What about you?

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Why do you have hobbies? Your hobbies can be productive. For instance, why do some people make open source programs? Perhaps it could be because (GASP) they enjoy it?

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Most people's jobs are not their hobbies. Do you think people who work forklifts at warehouses consider what they do a "hobby"? What about ditch diggers? McDonalds workers? Construction workers? I have never considered a job of mine a hobby. Ever. However, I love to make money. People do well at their jobs because either they are greedy themselves or they have greedy assholes watching over them and threatening to replace them if they don't work according to plan. The greedy assholes are obsessed with coming up with ideas and putting them into action because they are greedy assholes. Their hobby is making money, not getting buildings built and consumers happy. It is that dollar at the end of it all that makes things work so well.

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Why do some people want to work at NASA? Perhaps its because the like building things?

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NASA is a good example of an exception. I said that in a thread very recently. Those people love advancing space exploration. Companies don't work that way. Why is it that companies are generally run by greedy assholes? It's because people don't do that stuff for the love of anything other than money.

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

What about mechanics who like to tinker with there car? Why wouldn't they also offer their services to others?

What about people who enjoy raising live stock and having a farm?

People would do what they find interesting.

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Some of those people might enjoy doing some of that, but they would not have the will to absolutely whip ass at it all day every weekday.

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Also, pay in the Soviet Union was not equal. People who worked harder were given bonuses, but no one was ever given the ridiculous amounts of money that CEOs in the US make.

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Thus, the failure.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So people who ran businesses and factories and such were not afraid of Stalin and his evil gang? I know I wouldn't have been screwing up with him as dictator. What about you?

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Stalin was not evil. The purges, for instance, were necessary to rid the party of Trotskyists and other counter revolutionaries who wanted to destroy the government (Trotsky was advocating terrorism).

We killed and jailed counter revolutionaries in the American Revolutionary War. So why is Stalin "evil"?

"Counter Revoloutionaries" is a nice blanket term, as is the word "Terrorist" for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Stalin was not evil. The purges, for instance, were necessary to rid the party of Trotskyists and other counter revolutionaries who wanted to destroy the government (Trotsky was advocating terrorism).

We killed and jailed counter revolutionaries in the American Revolutionary War. So why is Stalin "evil"?

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Like Saddam Hussein, he killed everybody he even slightly suspected of being oppositional. He killed about 20 million people over that. Considering the weakness and unfairness of socialism and the paranoid genocide Stalin put on, wanting to overthrow Stalin was very understandable. He committed what was the second worst act of genocide in the history of the world. Only Mao beats him. It's not like he was running a fair government and killing just military soldiers who attacked his government.

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

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Like Saddam Hussein, he killed everybody he even slightly suspected of being oppositional. He killed about 20 million people over that.

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That's why he was initially funded by the US. When will you finally realize the full picture.

Ron Paul used to work at a hospital, and claims that they never turned anyone away no matter how poor they were. The one doctor who is running for office is against this healthcare crap and no one even listens to him. Not only is Ron Paul a doctor he is one of the most educated people in this country when it comes to the economy. Why doesn't anyone listen to the Doctor who is an expert on money? He knows what he is talking about.

How does someone with no money get health care? They go to someone who is willing to work for free to treat them. You can say that will never happen but Ron Paul did it, and so do many others. They only need to work maybe a few hours, maybe a day out of the week helping people. If there wasn't so much crap going on with the health care now, even more doctors would do such things.

We got so many laws and so much government interference right now, its just making things more expensive. If the government backed out, the price of insurance would drop a lot, and be afforeable.

To be a libertarian or a capitalist you need to believe in what you are doing. Government interference always makes things worse, and free market always gives you the best price. Private companies that compete with each other, always gives you better result than government. You either believe this stuff to be true or you do not.

If you do not believe it, chances are you are a socialist or a communist. You probably do not believe the government can give you superior service but you are to scared to leave it up to chance. Which is why you demand they do something.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Like Saddam Hussein, he killed everybody he even slightly suspected of being oppositional. He killed about 20 million people over that. Considering the weakness and unfairness of socialism and the paranoid genocide Stalin put on, wanting to overthrow Stalin was very understandable. He committed what was the second worst act of genocide in the history of the world. Only Mao beats him. It's not like he was running a fair government and killing just military soldiers who attacked his government.

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

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The Ukrainian Famine didn't happen on a scale like that.

Read this book to get a better understanding of what happened in Ukraine.

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"Counter Revoloutionaries" is a nice blanket term, as is the word "Terrorist" for that matter.

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So do you deny that there were monarchists and Trotskyists in Russia who wanted to overthrow the government? :roll:

Edit- Mao didn't have complete control of the Red Guard (or the droughts for that matter :roll:), so you can't blame it all on him for many of the deaths in China.

What you are talking about is irrelevant. Mao and Stalin committed big time hardcore extreme genocide on civilians for the same reasons the genocidal Hussein did. There is no way around that. Look at the numbers in that link I posted. They are the most evil people who ever lived.

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

That's why he was initially funded by the US. When will you finally realize the full picture.

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Yeah, the U.S. funded his genocide in the name of Bigfoot. Thank you for your outrage against genocide.

Did you even read the link I gave you?

Don't believe all these pathetic lies. The Ukrainian Genocide myth was started BY HITLER FOR A REASON TO INVADE!! That link has The Black Book of Communism in its list of sources. There are rebuttals of that, and the numbers that it has in the book are outrageous!

Don't believe everything you hear.

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

That's why he was initially funded by the US. When will you finally realize the full picture.

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The US funded Iraq because of their war with Iran. Iran supported and funded several terrorist groups that created several problems (such as Hezbollah and Hamas). We supported Iraq so that Iran would not win the war and become too powerful, basically using Iraq as a balance.

Relating our funding of a country that's leader tortured and killed millions after we had already funded his country (to stop the killing of others by terrorist groups) is about as relevant as saying that all of Germany is evil because they were the ones that put Hitler in power, who also ended up killing millions.

It's funny how we all speak about capitalism here in the US, while the Fed nearly controls the market. How can you call our system a free market if all of the interest rates and numbers are being diddled with by ben bernanke?

I believe this country is on the borderline of socialism, our capitalism has been slowly taken from us by the federal reserve, central banks who control the economy are wrong and immoral in my opinion it goes against everything a free market stands for.

If we wanted a real capitalist society you wouldn't have the government bailing out freddie mac and fannie mae

Those 2 institutions are crumbling and we are adding 400 billion to 'revive' them when in reality we are delaying the inevitable, weak institutions should be put out to pasture, not bailed out!

REAL capitalism goes like this: if a business is weak, it fails and a better one replaces it

Right now we have a system of idiots in the fed who bail out everyone like bear stearns or Fred and fannie, those 3 need to fail on their own...