The Electric Universe.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Right. And those idiots are the ones pushing the electric universe crap.

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That's what the scientists pushing the electric universe crap are saying about the other scientists pushing the gravitational universe crap. I think they've explained the universe in a very accurate way based on how we see it.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Individuals can be biased, but that's why we have peer review. I guess you've haven't heard of that. Also, if some scientific theory was wrong, it would be immediately obvious as all the experiments based on the assumption that it is correct fail catastrophically.

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Yes, peer review helps only when the individuals reviewing things aren't biased. And usually when the experiments of fudged theories are attempted to be reproduced, they will fail catastrophically, and it is immediately obvious that it is failing. Only I don't think they all get their results double checked through duplicate costly experiments every time they do a study, so it is not too hard to get fake stuff through a peer review.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

There's a subtlety here that I think you're missing. Old theories are NOT disproved. A theory is a theory because evidence supports it. Theories ARE expanded upon or explained in a different way, but the validity of the old theories is not suddenly rejected. Newton's law of gravity isn't wrong; it's just not complete. Hell, NASA still uses Newton's version of gravity for rocket calculations. The point here is that new theories must always include explanations for the old theories. For example, Einstein's GR explains the inverse square law of gravity using spacetime curvature. New theories build upon, not destroy, old theories. The electric universe does not explain the observations cosmologists have made, and crucially, it does not explain how the illusion of a gravitationally-dominated universe could have arisen.

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I agree, old theories can only be put up against contradictory evidence, and yet they are still very accurate for the specific cases we have been using them for. What is happening now, is we are finding exceptions to the rules that were created before we knew as much about the universe as we do now. No one is saying gravity does not apply, it clearly has its effects, but when you look at a different scale the gravity model does not fit as well as the electric model. So far, gravitational theory has been very helpful in our first skips out of the space pond (earth). The gravitational model is very accurate for describing planetary motion, which it does. However, when looking on a larger scale, entire galaxy sizes, the electric ideas make more sense and better describe what we see.

You know, ignore lists work really well guys. Unfortunately, they don't block the stuff in the quotes of other posters... yet...

Close-mindedness wasn't necessarily the norm pre-1600 either. I've had discussions with a theologian in another forum, and walked away with a strong impression that the Church was a lot less close-minded about science than I previously thought. He shed a completely different light on the typical religion vs. science debate, which made it seem a lot less confrontational than it's normally portrayed. Considering how politicized both have become, it's not surprising, and yes I do take his word over that of "common knowledge" on this subject.

And, no, he was not personally religious, as odd as that may seem. He approached theology from an academic, historical perspective, in case you're concerned about personal bias.

Scientists aren't closed minded?

Haha...hah... -_-

I see some extreme irony in putting 'those close-minded people' on ignore. :D

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Originally Posted by Neruo

I see some extreme irony in putting 'those close-minded people' on ignore. :D

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I dunno, I get a little chuckle every time I wander into a new thread and see almost a full page of "This user is on your ignore list, click to view post". Reminds me of all the time I'm saving by not wading through the crap to get to the garbage :)

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

I dunno, I get a little chuckle every time I wander into a new thread and see almost a full page of "This user is on your ignore list, click to view post". Reminds me of all the time I'm saving by not wading through the crap to get to the garbage :)

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That's a good idea, for some reason, I haven't stumbled across the ignore list yet.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

I dunno, I get a little chuckle every time I wander into a new thread and see almost a full page of "This user is on your ignore list, click to view post". Reminds me of all the time I'm saving by not wading through the crap to get to the garbage :)

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But it's fun to read silly opinions! :D And even the biggest idiot can contribute something every now and then in some topics.

I watched the movie only for a half-hour. Can someone please tell me what their actual theory is? :?

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Originally Posted by Neruo

I see some extreme irony in putting 'those close-minded people' on ignore. :D

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Meh. I have no problem being ignorant of trolls and other such internet phenomenons. If they can't treat other people with the bare level of respect that would be expected in real life, why bother reading it? It makes the threads that much easier to get through.

It's not a matter of their views, but their manners. I figure if they wanted to be listened to, they'd stop acting that way. For me, hearing someone's opinion is a privilidge for them, and if they cross too many lines or act too poorly, they lose my ear. I don't mean to sound like my ear is worth that much, just that it's worth whatever it is to them.

I always wonder how many people have certain posters on ignore. I figure after so many months of pissing on threads they must have a rather small audience. I wonder if some people aren't practically talking to themselves on the forums.

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Originally Posted by DNK

Meh. I have no problem being ignorant of trolls and other such internet phenomenons. If they can't treat other people with the bare level of respect that would be expected in real life, why bother reading it? It makes the threads that much easier to get through.

It's not a matter of their views, but their manners. I figure if they wanted to be listened to, they'd stop acting that way. For me, hearing someone's opinion is a privilidge for them, and if they cross too many lines or act too poorly, they lose my ear. I don't mean to sound like my ear is worth that much, just that it's worth whatever it is to them.

I always wonder how many people have certain posters on ignore. I figure after so many months of pissing on threads they must have a rather small audience. I wonder if some people aren't practically talking to themselves on the forums.

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After un-ignoring your post, I have to say that I think most people aren't as afraid of 'disrespect' and criticism in a way that they would censor the opposition.

Also, anyone who can enjoy the same discussions over and over (that's what it comes down to, especially when it's about religion) for more than two months is either very brave or an idiot. I just stop going to forums for months, then come back a month or two. Otherwise I would just get bored. Also saves me the trouble of boring myself, boring others and being ignored by people that can really use a different view on things.

Well they describe in the last half hour specific applications of they're theory (for those of you who have ADD).

I view modern science like Religion. Both Religion AND mainstream science will continually defend they're points of view, Even tho there is evidence to disprove their convictions, STILL they choose to NOT see it. This is Fundamentalism. It's like right and left wing Politics. You have the right wing guys in power and the left wing opposes them. When the left wing gets in power the put forth the same crappy laws the right wing people had. Yet EVERY Election people get caught up in the same scam. I think modern science and modern Religion, Are SCAMS just light right and left wing politics.

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Originally Posted by ranma187

blah blah modern science is a scam blah blah

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You realise the clothes you're wearing, the chair you're sitting in, the food you're eating, the keyboard you're typing with, the toothpaste you brush your teeth with, the plastic comb you brush your hair with, the car you drive to school/work with, the medicines you get from the doctor when you're ill and the latex condoms you may or may not use and everything else in your life are all products of the 'modern science scam' you are so ungrateful for?

By all means, if you're unhappy with the great deal that science has given you, give it all back and go live in the African plains like our ancestors did a couple million years ago.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

By all means, if you're unhappy with the great deal that science has given you, give it all back and go live in the African plains like our ancestors did a couple million years ago.

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Or like how Christian missionaries do now ;)

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

You realise the clothes you're wearing, the chair you're sitting in, the food you're eating, the keyboard you're typing with, the toothpaste you brush your teeth with, the plastic comb you brush your hair with, the car you drive to school/work with, the medicines you get from the doctor when you're ill and the latex condoms you may or may not use and everything else in your life are all products of the 'modern science scam' you are so ungrateful for?

By all means, if you're unhappy with the great deal that science has given you, give it all back and go live in the African plains like our ancestors did a couple million years ago.

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It's not being unhappy with what science has discovered for us, but rather being unhappy with how science is being conducted presently. No one can deny how easy our lives are because of science. But we have reached a point in time where plastic combs, chairs, keyboards etc. are not at the forefront of scientific advancement anymore. It is the more ambiguous stuff that I think ranma187 was talking about; Where it's becomes speculation based on extrapolating from what we know, leaving room for various interpretations of results.

Just because you're unhappy with the way things are now, doesn't mean you have to purge all things acquired previously.

Once Tesla's unreleased theory of electro-magnetic gravitism is disclosed by the US government the theory of relativity wil be shown up for what it is!

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Originally Posted by ranma187

Well they describe in the last half hour specific applications of they're theory (for those of you who have ADD).

I view modern science like Religion. Both Religion AND mainstream science will continually defend they're points of view, Even tho there is evidence to disprove their convictions, STILL they choose to NOT see it. This is Fundamentalism. It's like right and left wing Politics. You have the right wing guys in power and the left wing opposes them. When the left wing gets in power the put forth the same crappy laws the right wing people had. Yet EVERY Election people get caught up in the same scam. I think modern science and modern Religion, Are SCAMS just light right and left wing politics.

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Name something that despite 'evidence to disprove their convictions' is not accepted by the scientific community.

You are talking nonsense, sir.

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Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Once Tesla's unreleased theory of electro-magnetic gravitism is disclosed by the US government the theory of relativity wil be shown up for what it is!

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This may very well be a joke, but nevertheless I will comment. Einstein's special theory of relativity follows directly from the postulate that there are no preferred frames of reference, which has experimental evidence from interferometers down to about 1 part in a trillion. And I say it follows directly, because the step of going from the postulate to special relativity (meaning the speed of light, time dilation, length contraction, Lorentz transform, etc.) is logical and mathematical. To prove the postulate is to prove special relativity. And conversely, to argue against special relativity is to argue directly against the postulate.

So, in short, Tesla was good with the electricity stuff, but had no intuition for gravity.