What really happened on 9/11

Defininitely not the official story of things.

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Here are several possible courses of events that took place on 9/11/01, since by now I would have hoped that pretty much eveyone would have realized that the whole thing was a complete sham, but that, is not what this post is about.

First one:

- Two Passenger Jets leave Boston
- The jets are notified to possible terrorist hijacking, and are instructed to switch off their transponders and land at a nearby airbase
- Two subsitute, remote-controlled aircraft snap on course to intercept the flight path of the previous jets. One armed with at least three missiles[], and another with some sort of pos attatched to it's fuselauge[]
- The passengers and crew from the previous two flights are loaded onto yet another Boeing 767-200, and head over pensylvania, aiming for a wide, arching turn to start heading for the White house
- The two substitue craft deployed crash into WTC1 and WTC2, repectively, in a time frame of about twenty minutes
- 2 F-15s, 2 F-16s, and a single A-10 Thinderbolt II are scrambled, and sent into the vicintity of F93.
- The F-15s close in at a low altitude before shoving off and turning around
- The few witnesses on the ground, distracted by the F-15s, do not notice the F-16 assault by way of 16mm cannon fire on the jet liner
- F93, traveling at ~500 mph, instantly disintegrates fron the assault, breaking up and scattering wreckage across the countryside
- The lone A-10 drops a single 1000lb bomb, creating a crater which is cited at the official crash site
- At the pentagon, an Exocet-Class Cruise Missile, encased in a large superstructure, along with two other AGM missiles are fired into the eastern wall, which was, then, undergoing renovations.
- The missiles create a large fireball, except one, which did not explode, as detailed by an isolaated exit hole in the wall of the pentagon
- In new york, a controlled demolition of the WTC1 & 2 buldings begin, accounting for the neat, and clean imposion of the two buildings that had had drasitcally different structural damages

Second:

- The two supposed flights out of boston never existed. They were invented for this event
- Two remote-controlled aircraft snap on course to New York. One armed with at least three missiles[], and another with some sort of pos attatched to it's fuselauge[]
- FLight Nintey Three was just a flying gas tank, just like Flights 11 and 175
- The two remote controlled craft deployed crash into WTC1 and WTC2, repectively, in a time frame of about twenty minutes
- 2 F-15s, 2 F-16s, and a single A-10 Thinderbolt II are scrambled, and sent into the vicintity of F93.
- The F-15s close in at a low altitude before shoving off and turning around
- Neither the F-15s or F-16s take action, they are just there for the distraction and to emphasize the later story
- The A-10 took no action and due to the explosive potential of a floating tank of gas and explosives, did not need to use a missile to fake a crash site. The extra explosives would also account for the large
- At the pentagon, three missiles are launched at the pentagon.
- The missiles create a large fireball, except one, which did not explode, as detailed by an isolaated exit hole in the wall of the pentagon
- In new york, a controlled demolition of the WTC1 & 2 buldings begin, accounting for the neat, and clean imposion of the two buildings that had had drasitcally different structural damages

Evidence:

Stills taken from 9/11 videos.
Captions added by me:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...911/Still1.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...911/Still2.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...911/Still3.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...911/Still4.jpg

Notice the flash from the plane is present in the televised version, but absent in the DVD version:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Videoimpactmontagelarge.jpg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/DVDimpactmontagelarge.jpg

Another pic:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/frame2_tv.jpg

Oh, and let's see just what the hell hit WTC1 anyway:

This is what actually hit the tower:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spence...processed4.jpg

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spence..._enhanced4.jpg

This is a simulation of a 767 approaching the tower.

Note the differences.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spence...roach_blur.jpg

As for the pentagon:

This is the wreckage hole:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...ecollapse2.jpg

Here is a comparison of a Boeing 757 to-scale next to the pentagon

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...n.pentagon.jpg

An engine turbine found in the wreckage:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...photorotor.jpg

Notice it is waay too small to be from the engine of a 757 engine.

Here is a series of images leaked from the pentagon:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...on_strike2.gif


This is what it would have looked like if a Boeing 757 had hit the Building at 230mph (The blackbox data recorder told that the speed of the plane was only around 230-300 mph at the time of impact.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...entstrike3.gif

And this is all not mentioning the fact that the supposed hijackers couldn't even control a small Cessna; much less a Jet of this size with suck precision...

Any questions?

MORE conspiracy theories? Ugh...

No questions but it's nice to see you are aware of it. Spread the word like there is no tommorow. By any means.

Remember the media reported building 7 down before it actually collapsed. you can see it standing in the background when they said it has collapsed. Post footage of that too.

Interesting.......

I never caught that bulge under the plane before.

What do you say to the people who have friends and family members that were on the flights that supposedly never existed? I know some of them personally. Should I tell them that their family members weren't real?

I think there are much more plausible possibilities. If I were operating under the assumption that our government definitely had some hand in these events, the most likely explanation to me would be that they had foreknowledge and let it happen. I think the fact that dozens of training exercises happened to have been scheduled for the same day, many of which involved planes crashing into buildings so that the people involved could not distinguish between reality and the drills is enough evidence.

I don't understand- the planes that hit the WTC were intended to by the US government? Not too farfetched for me..

I didn't know you were into prison planet's Alex Jones material seismosaur.

Great evidence...[/sarc] How about something more concrete than drawing huge conclusions from grainy footage next time?

As for the pentagon footage, even at 230mph the plane's going at over 100m/s. If the frame rate on the camera is low then not getting a good shotn of the plane is perfectly plausible. (besides which, why do you believe the data in the black box if you think missiles hit)

I totally agree with the Pentagon footage - however, why on earth would the American Government, if they knew they were going to be killing thousands, be bothered to save a couple of measly civilian flights. Surely they could just allow terrorists onto the planes, possibly load the planes with high explosives too, and let the terrorists do the work.

Also, the 'bulge' on the underside of the aircraft is very possibly it's landing gear bays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

MORE conspiracy theories? Ugh...

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Not really a conspiracy theory... Just telling you what I see.

Have you seen the Fireman's Video? They get called to some supposed gas leak, in a vent that just happens to have a perfect view of the south tower, and then, you can see, when they are done they just... Stand around. Then, when they hear a motherfucking Boeing 767 rocketing over Manhattan, one fireman just casually looks up, and the camera man immediately afterwards points directly at the South tower.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What do you say to the people who have friends and family members that were on the flights that supposedly never existed? I know some of them personally. Should I tell them that their family members weren't real?

I think there are much more plausible possibilities. If I were operating under the assumption that our government definitely had some hand in these events, the most likely explanation to me would be that they had foreknowledge and let it happen. I think the fact that dozens of training exercises happened to have been scheduled for the same day, many of which involved planes crashing into buildings so that the people involved could not distinguish between reality and the drills is enough evidence.

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I didn't say they weren't real... It's just a possibility to me as I have never met anyone or known anyone who was connected to anyone who was on the WTC planes or Flight 93.

I mean, what happened to the pentagon? A plane full of people hits, and nothing gets said about it except several dozen photos of a tiny impact hole, with no wreckage to be found.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sybot

Great evidence...[/sarc] How about something more concrete than drawing huge conclusions from grainy footage next time?

As for the pentagon footage, even at 230mph the plane's going at over 100m/s. If the frame rate on the camera is low then not getting a good shotn of the plane is perfectly plausible. (besides which, why do you believe the data in the black box if you think missiles hit)

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I don't see how I am drawing "huge conclusions" by pointing some basic things out?

And you aren't looking at it right. The first frame is the plane entering the Pentagon, so we should see SOME of it.

And I do think missiles hit it, because of the impact holes:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...exit_holes.jpg

How does a single Boeging 767 manage to completely destroy one of the largest buildings in New York, yet a Boeing 757 (Which is near the same specifications as a 767) do only minor damage to a considerably smaller building?

It makes NO sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

I totally agree with the Pentagon footage - however, why on earth would the American Government, if they knew they were going to be killing thousands, be bothered to save a couple of measly civilian flights. Surely they could just allow terrorists onto the planes, possibly load the planes with high explosives too, and let the terrorists do the work.

Also, the 'bulge' on the underside of the aircraft is very possibly it's landing gear bays.

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That's entirely possible. But I'm only working with what I know.

Which is all the photos and videos I've seen, plus eyewitness accounts (Which aren't usually very relibable, but they still have to be taken into account)

As for the buldge... Well, If you look at a picture of a Boeing 767...

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com..._strip_640.jpg

... You'll see the landing gear doors are too far inward and aren't sphereical.

So what does that make the buldge?

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I don't see how I am drawing "huge conclusions" by pointing some basic things out?

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:roll:

You post that ridiculous conspiracy theory at the beginning of the OP, then offer up those pictures as 'evidence'. I'd call that drawing a huge conclusion.

Quote:

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And you aren't looking at it right. The first frame is the plane entering the Pentagon, so we should see SOME of it.

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In the first frame I see what looks like a cockpit on the right side of the picture. On the second frame I see what looks like the tail of a plane, with the front obscured by the explosion.

Quote:

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And I do think missiles hit it, because of the impact holes:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...exit_holes.jpg

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Those look like they could have been made by the fuselage and two engines. And as other evidence (ie witness statements, physical evidence) points to planes rather than missiles...

Quote:

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How does a single Boeging 767 manage to completely destroy one of the largest buildings in New York, yet a Boeing 757 (Which is near the same specifications as a 767) do only minor damage to a considerably smaller building?

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Maybe because the buildings are completely different in design? It's a bit useless to compare skyscrapers with a much lower, flatter building.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

That's entirely possible. But I'm only working with what I know.

Which is all the photos and videos I've seen, plus eyewitness accounts (Which aren't usually very relibable, but they still have to be taken into account)

As for the buldge... Well, If you look at a picture of a Boeing 767...

http://www.911research.dsl.pipex.com..._strip_640.jpg

... You'll see the landing gear doors are too far inward and aren't sphereical.

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OK, fair enough. I just think there is more conclusive and important evidence to be investigated than the bulges.

Still, it's nice to see you're going about this in an intelligent way, unlike a lot of people.

I really don't think this is what happened, but the government definetly had prior knowledge, and the CIA was involved.

If your going to talk about 9-11, you shouldn't focus on the planes and the buildings, this usually just makes people mad and then they won't even listen to what you have to say. The best thing to talk about is government involvement/knowledge of the event. Theres plenty of evidence that what the 9-11 commission says happened is false/leaves a lot of shit out.

Why the fuck would the hang a few extra cubic meters of explosives on the planes that hit the WTC? The planes were empty, according to you, so they could have filled that shit up to the max, no need to put some more explosives on them. Especially since they 'show so clearly' on gritty camera images.

Why would you complicate things. There are other more certain things which don't require grainy images to see and offer evidence for the fact that it was an inside job.

you know the funny part about most of these conspiricy photos? The exact opposite could be done what they say they government did withthe photos. In other words, the theorists can photoshop the pics just as well as the government could photoshop things out of it. I think the segment of what the pentagon footage "should have" looked like is good proof that this could happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neruo

Why the fuck would the hang a few extra cubic meters of explosives on the planes that hit the WTC? The planes were empty, according to you, so they could have filled that shit up to the max, no need to put some more explosives on them. Especially since they 'show so clearly' on gritty camera images.

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- If there WERE passngers onboard

Then there was no room

- If there weren't

How do you know the planes were empty?

I'm just telling you what I see. The pentagon is pretty much a giveaway, though... The official story is bullshit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

The official story is bullshit.

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At least most people can agree on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

- If there WERE passngers onboard

Then there was no room

- If there weren't

How do you know the planes were empty?

I'm just telling you what I see. The pentagon is pretty much a giveaway, though... The official story is bullshit.

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What the hell are you saying? You said in your opening post that the planes were remote controlled. I am guessing that means empty. Even then, you still ignored my point that there is no reason to hang a weird bulky thing below a 747, no matter what you are going to use it for, be it as a pimp-mobile or as a tool for a diabolical plan.

In addition to what Neruo has said, how could the Pentagon have been hit with missiles? Honestly, think about it.

It's like someone committing a murder in the middle of a busy street in broad daylight and no one seeing it, only it's on a much larger scale, instead of someone stabbing or shooting someone in the street, it's a FRIGGING GIANT PLANE/MISSILE CRASHING INTO ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT BUILDINGS IN AMERICA. Wouldn't this official story have been completely disproved then? Also, I didn't bother reading most of the OP, as I've already seen all the same shit several years ago, as well as having seen pages worth of information disputing the facts that the conspiracy theorists come up with, so I'm not going to bother going through this all again.

Sorry, I just felt like I should stress that point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neruo

What the hell are you saying? You said in your opening post that the planes were remote controlled. I am guessing that means empty. Even then, you still ignored my point that there is no reason to hang a weird bulky thing below a 747, no matter what you are going to use it for, be it as a pimp-mobile or as a tool for a diabolical plan.

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I didn't say what I said was infallible fact. Just what I thought happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reality_is_a_Dream

So what does that make the buldge?

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No idea.

Most likely object? Fuel tank. Explosive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sybot

:roll:

You post that ridiculous conspiracy theory at the beginning of the OP, then offer up those pictures as 'evidence'. I'd call that drawing a huge conclusion.



In the first frame I see what looks like a cockpit on the right side of the picture. On the second frame I see what looks like the tail of a plane, with the front obscured by the explosion.



Those look like they could have been made by the fuselage and two engines. And as other evidence (ie witness statements, physical evidence) points to planes rather than missiles...



Maybe because the buildings are completely different in design? It's a bit useless to compare skyscrapers with a much lower, flatter building.

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The supposed "engine turbine" was found INSIDE the building. Did you see a Pratt and Whitney out here:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...last_holes.jpg

And you're exactly right about strutural differences: Skyscapers are BUILT to withstand jet impacts. A flatter building like the pentagon getting hit head-one by a 757 would show MUCH more damage. The main hole is only large enough to fit the front of the fuselage in.

And face it, eyewitness accounts are crap. Everyday people think they see Alien Space Craft^TM.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

I didn't say what I said was infallible fact. Just what I thought happened.

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I think that what you saw on the griddy picture was actually my cock, that transcends oceans by it's huge-ness.

But that's just a theory!!111 111221

At least the goffernment sux, lol! :D AM I RITE?!!!11!1111

http://static2.filefront.com/images/...cvzwygttzp.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No idea.The supposed "engine turbine" was found INSIDE the building. Did you see a Pratt and Whitney out here:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...last_holes.jpg

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I don't know enough about aircraft engine design to make a complete judgement on this. However I did find a site that discusses that image from your first post.

Quote:

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And you're exactly right about strutural differences: Skyscapers are BUILT to withstand jet impacts. A flatter building like the pentagon getting hit head-one by a 757 would show MUCH more damage. The main hole is only large enough to fit the front of the fuselage in.

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The WTC was designed to withstand an accidental hit from a plane, where it would be travelling at low speed. It wasn't designed for a plane going at top speed slamming into it. Also, the impact point on the WTC was mostly steel beams and glass, compared with the much more solid exterior of the Pentagon. Against a solid surface, only objects with sufficient mass, such as the main fuselage and the engines are going to penetrate, with the rest breaking apart on impact.

Quote:

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And face it, eyewitness accounts are crap. Everyday people think they see Alien Space Craft^TM.

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There's a little something called convergence of evidence. The eyewitness accounts for the most part agree with each other and the physical evidence, so they are likely to be mostly correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What do you say to the people who have friends and family members that were on the flights that supposedly never existed? I know some of them personally. Should I tell them that their family members weren't real?

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Yes. Bush made them up.

Some of you people give Bush way too much credit when you are not going way out of the bounds of reality in degrading him. You talk about what a total imbecile he is, then you turn around and make him out to be the biggest genius who ever lived. Which is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sybot

I don't know enough about aircraft engine design to make a complete judgement on this. However I did find a site that discusses that image from your first post.



The WTC was designed to withstand an accidental hit from a plane, where it would be travelling at low speed. It wasn't designed for a plane going at top speed slamming into it. Also, the impact point on the WTC was mostly steel beams and glass, compared with the much more solid exterior of the Pentagon. Against a solid surface, only objects with sufficient mass, such as the main fuselage and the engines are going to penetrate, with the rest breaking apart on impact.



There's a little something called convergence of evidence. The eyewitness accounts for the most part agree with each other and the physical evidence, so they are likely to be mostly correct.

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Interesting.

But that doesn't explain the exit holes, because the engine pieces are inside the building.

As for eyewitness accounts-- Some people claimed to see A-10s around where 93 went down, others claimed the Pentagon plane was tiny, and even some said they watched WTC2 get hit, but never say a 767 at all.

So.

http://prisonplanet.tv/

RAINBOWS!

Rainbow: An effect caused by White light being refracted through water.

No.

What? This thread has really gone downhill.

So, what do you suppose happened to the people who died on the 9/11 flights?

Apparently some 4 hijackers survived the plain crashes.

I personally don't think the official highjackers were ever on the plane. I think that the planes were full of people and did hit the building, but it was done by different people than the government says.

But lets assume for a second that seismo is right. The people who died on the 9-11 flights could have been taken to guantonomo bay, or some other secret prison. BUt what would be more likely is that these flights could have landed somewhere(like guantonamo) and executed there.

While these theories about the planes are interesting, they are not a good way to get people to see what really happened on 9/11. Focus on things like the fact that some of the highjackers are still alive. This in itself makes no sense and to me shows that whoever did the investigation was not looking for the truth.

Lol yeah they were on TV about it.

The CIA apparently couldn't even spell the names right of the hijackers so many of the names that appeared were people alive and living in the US and Middle East.

Bush was informed that a terrorist attack in New York was one of the 3 big threats facing his administration. FBI operatives that were beginning to see a plan in the works were either removed from office or silenced by other means.

I'm not even talking about photopgraphs or all the impossibilities through which the attack took place, I'm just talking about loose ends in the goverment's job of handling it because that alone is very fishy to me. I mean, either Bush is the most retarded person on the planet, or of the sickest, greediest, most inhumane people on the planet.

And people are like, "more conspiracy theories"... sarcastic response/pseudo intellectual fallacy used as an excuse not to read the argument in the first place/flame fest ensues

I mean shit, how come a bunch of pentagon desk workers were outside cleaning up evidence in their front lawn?

And the only argument I've heard so far (besides the "so the victims in the airplanes didn't exist? fallacy) is that our government wuldn't do something like this. But they have in the past.

Our government has committed bloody atrocities since the birth of this country. What is so far fetched about this one? At this point it seems more far fetched that a bunch of terrorists working for a dying black sheep of a Saudi aristocratic family committed the attacks by themselves and then all forensic evidence magically disappeared but somehow a passport survived.

It's like aafter Kennedy died and the patzy was shot by the mob before he even got to trial making it nice and easy to close the case without having to work with any evidence or a jury of peers or some nonsense. It's the same case here, there's a bunch of evidence that doesn't fit the official report unless they use the word magic several times, but everyone buys it anyway because it's "official"

Well you've all been officially shit on by your own government.

That's hard to believe since the planes were tracked by radar the whole time. The whole "secret prison" execution thing feels too incredible. Especially without actual proof.

The government knew the attacks would happen. Then they lied and said that the whole scenario was unimaginable. The fighters didn't do anything about it, the Pentagon wasn't protected by it's missle defence system, the plane somehow did impossible maneuvers, did a hole smaller then its size, they confiscated any other videos of the pentagon attack and released only crappy ones etc.

You'd have to be pretty brainwashed to believe the official explanation.

Yeah I was just entertaining ideas. I think that the planes were actually highjacked and crashed into the buildings and the people died. I don't see why they wouldn't have, it would have just made things overly complicated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Interesting.

But that doesn't explain the exit holes, because the engine pieces are inside the building.

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Perhaps the engine broke up as it went through the building, so parts fell off midway through.

Quote:

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As for eyewitness accounts-- Some people claimed to see A-10s around where 93 went down, others claimed the Pentagon plane was tiny, and even some said they watched WTC2 get hit, but never say a 767 at all.

So.

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It was a traumatic day, some witnesses can be expected to misremember details. That's why the other evidence is looked at so we can see which of the witness statements overlap with it.

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

Apparently some 4 hijackers survived the plain crashes.

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None of the hijackers are alive. Read this, particularly the "Hijackers still alive?" part.

So, let's just say the U.S. did commit terrorism on themselves. Why did they kill the people on the flights and in the buildings? What was the motive? So they could go to war in Afghanistan?

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Bush said Iraq was "weapons of mass destruction," which was a lie. Then Bush turned around and said he attacked Iraq for the "protection and respect" of the UN, or some garbage like that.

There's a really good video over this conspiracy thing that shows the Pentagon and talks about it, it examines the holes and everything else, I'll find it later and post if you haven't already seen it.

lol yea.

That'd be great if you could find that vid :)

Check this one out in the meantime. It may seem kind of dry but stick around for the money shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

Eh, I don't remember the name of the video or anything. I have dial-up so I won't look through them all to find it, but here's a search. I'm sure it's on there somewhere because Youtube is where I first saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=9%2F11+conspiracy&search_type =&aq=-1&oq=

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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Look, I'm a not a Neo Conservative, so I can't tell you why. They're a bunch of warmongers.

Invading Iraq, which is rich in oil, for no good official reason is just... Bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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The rich are richer than ever. These people don't give a fuck about poor working class people. Rich people make money off of war, they are selfish, they do not care about other people.

We live in an oligarchy. Money is power in this country because in order to gain power you have to spend a lot of money.

It's not the entire government doing this, just a few people inside it. Like the neo cons as the video and some others have metioned.

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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America as a whole, yes. But check the bottom line of any company that produces guns, tanks, army supplies etc etc.

When your product is an instrument of war/occupation...

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

RAINBOWS!

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OH MY GOD! Freemasons! New world order! 9/11! Skull and Bones! UFOs! Economic Downfall! 2012! End of the World! Invasion of Mexicans!

Yet, this whole 9/11 deal that's kicked off, this New American Century Project, was planned years and years before 9/11 happened. In fact without 9/11 happening it could never have happened in fact. They needed it. They needed this and it's not just a New American Century. Every country pretty well on the planet has gone into it with them, which means it took years to set up in advance. Be back with more after these messages.


Hi folks. I'm Alan Watt back and we're Cutting Through the Matrix, as the matrix thickens and we move into other big areas of it and that's what's happening because the big intelligence agencies, agencies that are into so much absurd things and have been all down through the ages that it staggers the mind. Most of them of course are covert operations against the public of their own people. In fact it has nothing to do with foreign people or foreign countries.

During the whole Cold War there were more people observing people within the so-called Western countries than spying on people without in every areas of your lives. They used to have special post offices in Britain where certain people's mail would be redirected and they'd open them and read them and they'd put them back in new envelopes with new stamps of all different countries and then rubber stamp them because they had all the stamps there for all the countries and send it on to the proper address. This went on for years and years unknown to the public and now they're simply moving into the next phase of the internet. They've done it in fact because they gave us the internet and foresaw all the problems before they gave it to us. After all, it was designed for any by the military-industrial complex.

Well, here's their next make-work project for retiring spooks and this is what they do for these characters who are semi-retired or they got too fat or a bad hearts or something. They were drinking too much brandy and overeating at all the functions they go to. They give them these semi-retirement jobs where they make work projects for them to do and in this new age of terrorism, terrorism everywhere it's limitless. It's utterly limitless.

During World War II, Dennis Wheatley, who wrote different novels on black magic and witchcraft, admitted to working with an agency set up by the British government who set up these mediums and so on, sorcerers, trying to find out what Hitler was going to do next. That's not a new thing with governments when it comes to war. They did the same thing in days gone by when kings would get their famous astrologers and they'd say, "ah, Jupiter is in line with whatever, Saturn, good time to attack France," and that's what they'd go and do, attack France. So you have the same nonsense down through the ages as they rely upon anything and everything because they tend to panic you see.

Here they're going into the virtual worlds, which they've set up, by the way, and this is an article from the BBC News on March 3rd, 2008. It says here:

"U.S. government has begun a project to develop ways to spot terrorists who are using virtual worlds."

Alan: It's not good enough that you're communicating to each other and being spied on. Now they're into the virtual worlds where all the spooks go and I have to admit that it is kooks who are going into or very young people who don't know any better. However, there are adults as well going into these virtual worlds going to create their own little fantasy, all New Agers of course, and live this fantasy life in preparation for the brain chip where they'll actually be in it.

It goes on to say:

"Codenamed Reynard it aims to recognise "normal" behaviour in online worlds and home in on anomalous activity."

Alan: Here already now they're going to create whole categories of what's normal. Now these are the characters who give you all these slaughter video games and all the rest of it that are giving you virtual worlds, but they're going to see if you're normal or not as they go into it.

It says:

"It is likely to develop tools and techniques for intelligence officers…"

Alan: Now I don't know where they're going to find intelligence in these officers.

"…who are hunting terrorists and terror groups on the net or in virtual worlds. The project was welcomed by experts…"

Alan: Again, those experts, those strange characters coming from different wombs.

"…tracking terror groups using the net to organise or carry out attacks. Growing threat…"

Alan: Oh.

"Brief details about Reynard came to light in a report sent to the US Congress by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) - which co-ordinates the work of US intelligence agencies. In that report, which talked about the data mining efforts undertaken by the ODNI, Reynard was described as: "a seedling effort to study the emerging phenomenon of social (particularly terrorist) dynamics in virtual worlds and large-scale online games and their implications for the intelligence community". Using publicly available data Reynard researchers will carry out observational studies to establish "baseline normative behaviors."

Alan: Do you realize this will go eventually into the brain chip and they're already going to decide what's normal and abnormal? And believe you me, if you have some abnormal thought like thinking for yourself, in the world that's coming into existence, they're going to bring you in to rectify you rather quick or else they're going to eradicate you.

"Once these are identified, Reynard will "then apply the lessons learned to determine the feasibility of automatically detecting suspicious behavior and actions in the virtual world."

Alan: Here we're into suspicious behavior now. Maybe you use the occasional phrase from the Koran or a poem and that would be enough to get you into suspicious behavior.

"It's a positive step," said Andrew Cochran, founder and co-chairman of the Counterterrorism Foundation."

Alan: This is the make-work project that's going to rake in billions.

"For a number of years we were behind in chasing jihadists' presence on the net and detecting it."

Alan: What a joke. They set up Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda actually was the term the CIA initially used for intelligence network they set up via computer and communications devices to contact their own agents in the field when the Russians had gone into Afghanistan.

To continue here:

"That's a very sensible step at the moment," said Roderick Jones, a vice president of Concentric Solutions and a former special branch officer. "Just to feel their way around them and work out what new intelligence collection methods might be required to deal with this threat, because you won't be able to use traditional law enforcement methods."

Alan: Maybe they'll virtually stun you with a gun.

"New worlds. A senior intelligence officer at the ODNI said Reynard was in its very early stages and it was too soon to say which online worlds it would be studying. He added that any work on it would be purely for research rather than "operational" purposes. I think its highly unlikely terrorists would use things like Second Life or World of Warcraft as they do not have the necessary security," said Mr. Jones. "Terrorist use of the internet at the moment relies on password protected forums," he added.

Alan: A BBC documentary, by the way, showed a few years ago that there were no terrorist organizations in Britain to do with the jihad, but the BBC documentary did say that many young people were being put into or starting to join organizations set up as sting operations by the British Intelligence Service. I keep telling young people don't join anything. They'll say all the right things to get you stirred up but you're being led by the nose. These are old techniques.

It says:

"It was inevitable that terror groups would make greater use of the internet and the possibilities that virtual spaces offered them, said Mr. Jones. "There's more a chance of things like Jihad worlds coming online in the next five years I think," he said. The visual richness of virtual worlds made them good places to educate recruits about techniques, said Mr. Jones."

Alan: Maybe even kung-fu, eh?

"Attack pattern. We can see groups emerging in cyber spaces and virtual communities that would be wholly virtual," he said. "They would organise and radicalize in virtual…"

Alan: I wonder what they're going to charge the public, by the way, for their virtual swat teams that go into these virtual worlds and eradicate the ones that are not behaving normally. What a farce it's becoming, isn't it? An utter, utter farce.

"Many groups were likely to use the expertise and skills they learn in virtual worlds to target key net systems."

Alan: Well, they know that because they gave all the war games to the children 20 years ago to make sure there's a generation of nihilistic barbarians for this particular time in history because they want them in the military and go off and slaughter people abroad and wipe out all animals and people in kill zones and throw puppies over cliffs. That's the system. See, they gave us that, with the media too, because the media too and entertainment industry works with the security intelligence services, always planning and bringing on a culture for the future which they've planned and we're surprised and when it happens, like yeah.

"Ken Silva, chief technology officer for Verisign which oversees some of the net's core address books, said such an attack could be "devastating".

Alan: Devastating.

"We see a continuing growth in the amount of horsepower in the attacks that are directed at infrastructure servers," said Mr. Silva. "We are seeing a large shift from attacks that are directed at individual websites," he said. "The sophistication is getting a little smarter and they are attacking the infrastructure pieces behind them which is typically in most production environments the least invested in. Some of the basic systems of the net, such as the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) which helps data reach its intended destination, were open to attack."

Alan: This is all bunkum because this is sewn up.

"An accidental misconfiguration of BGP in some routers in Pakistan caused the recent problems with YouTube which left many people unable to reach the video site."

Alan: Also, when NSA were rewiring the underground cables of India and all Pakistan and all of the various Middle Eastern countries about a month ago there, it was the NSA that was doing that to make sure that they could route all information into their own systems faster or immediately.

"BGP is essentially a relatively unprotected protocol and is seriously vulnerable to disruption," he said. "Should that happen, it could take a very long time to correct that situation." "This has to be fought at every level," he said."

Alan: Here you are, virtual worlds where they're going to do more surveys on everyone operating within them and create normative value scenarios. I'll be back with more after the following messages.

Hi folks. Alan Watt back with Cutting Through the Matrix and we'll go to the lines now and we have Rick from California. Are you there, Rick?

Rick: Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me Alan?

Alan: Yes I can.

Rick: Okay. There were some problems with the phone earlier so I just wanted to make sure. I was thinking about something yesterday and I wanted to talk to you about. Earlier, a couple of years ago, about five years ago, four years ago I was living in sort of a ghetto neighborhood and I wanted to invite – I invited some homeless people to come in and live with me. They were struggling and they were sort of friends of friends of mine and I started to notice that everybody around me was sort of psychopathic, like they were only interested in what they could get for beer money, cigarette money and so on, and then I started to notice that there was like a badge of honor in the ghetto. They call it "getting over," where you prove that you're smart by taking advantage of people. Taking their generosity for stupidity was considered a badge of honor that you were more street smart. So I began to be very frustrated and because I didn't believe in prisons and jails and law enforcement, I didn't believe in calling the cops, I started to turn to magic and voodoo thinking that maybe I could put some fear into them to respect me. Plus, they were also bullying and also wanted to fight all the time and so I thought – I didn't believe in police and jails. I wanted an alternative to the system we have and I was thinking – an African man told me that in Benin you could leave $100 on the table and no one would steal it because of the fear of the curse. Then it led me down to this quagmire and I started to take on psychopathic traits myself and now of course I see past all that, but I'm wondering what you think of all this; in a system without police and judges and jails and money, how would you deal with psychopaths at the bottom? How would you take care of people like that or how would a community take care of people like that?

Alan: No one's ever – for the actual psychopathic type, and they are all down through society. There's no doubt. No one's come up with a solution because it's a personality disorder not an illness and there's no treatment available for it. It's as almost as though part of the brain that gives them human emotion or attachment and bonding is not there. The ones at the bottom of the level, it's not all homeless people obviously, but you'll get groups of them that know each other and they do recognize each other, the same as the ones at the top. They recognize the same traits and they form their own little brotherhoods. You have to be very, very careful. Those that work with people who are homeless can recognize the normal folk with misfortunes and they do immediately recognize eventually because they get used to it. The psychopathic types, the street wise characters who can read you like a book quickly and know your weak spots and know how to manipulate you, so there's no way they've ever found to come up with it. If these same characters were born in affluent families with money and power and went to the right schools, they'd be up there with the other psychopaths ruling us.

Rick: Yes, I was thinking about that and I realize now; I don't believe in magic and voodoo and all this stuff now. I've changed. I also recognize too that a lot of them were trained in prison. They had been in prison and so I could see why you live out in the country, because when you live in a psychopathic society and around psychopaths all the time, eventually you start to take on those traits.

Alan: There's an old saying that you do, you become your opponent, and that's the problem with even the people during the Cold War. The agencies that were dealing with the Cold War became ultra-paranoid. They employed many psychopaths and paranoid people who were classically diagnosed paranoid schizophrenics were employed by the Pentagon to put their theories forward, which were adopted by the Pentagon. We found that with I think it was with Jonathan Nash, who they made a movie out of called "A Beautiful Mind," totally different from reality of course, the movie version. The man was not a nice person, never was a nice person. He lived in a fantasy world of utter paranoia where everybody around him was doing their own little game and he introduced game theory into the Pentagon and they ran the whole of the U.S. on behaviorism with the idea that everyone simply worked for their own advantage and had no interest in anyone else's safety or betterment, and they used that in society and you see it all through society today. We became part of the game theory with a psychopathic culture given to us. It doesn’t mean that everyone in it is psychopathic, but we adopt the culture because it was promoted to us.

Rick: It's like I don't think I started out psychopathic and I wasn't interested in magic but just being around it so much and being hurt by it and bullied by people, I started to get very angry. I started to even hate the masses or hate the working class, but now I view it more from above – not above but I view it more of a sympathy. A lot of them have been trained that way and I also noticed too that not all homeless people in my community were like that. There were some that were really genuinely trying to survive but I also noticed that the psychopathic ones formed brotherhoods or they formed groups like you were saying.

Alan: Thanks for calling.

Rick: You're welcome Alan.

Alan: Take care.

Rick: You take care.

Alan: I'll be back with more after these messages. Hi. I'm Alan Watt Cutting Through the Matrix and we're taking callers and we have Daniel from California on the line. Are you there, Daniel?

Daniel: Yes I'm here. Can you hear me?

Alan: Yes I can.

Daniel: Hey, what's going on? I noticed that they don't have you on Coast no more, Alan. Whatever happened with that?

Alan: On the Coast?

Daniel: Yes. They don't call you back no more. Are they scared of you now?

Alan: Coast-to-Coast?

Daniel: Yes.

Alan: Well, I know that the ratings that I got from that show they said were the best they'd ever had.

Daniel: I'm sure.

Alan: Put it this way, if I was kind to some agendas I would be back there.

Daniel: Yes I'm sure. You know I noticed that and it's just because it's such a broad listening group that they cover. I had hoped that you would be on there more, especially after that one show because you did such a fabulous job.

Alan: I could have been on every two weeks if I want along with some agendas, put it that way.

Daniel: Wow. I have a question about some ancient history. Do you think the Aztecs and the Egyptians and the Phoenicians were connected in some way because of the pyramids?

Alan: Yes. In fact, there was a U.S. professor who wrote "America B.C.," he came from Harvard, who put an excellent few books actually on that subject and he did a dig with students that was actually put on CBC radio. That's Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, for the government. They did a series on his digs in Algonquian Park and they dug up the tops of three pyramids and they did find the living quarters of priests and they found old ancient Egyptian writing and old (they called it) "Proto-Iranian" writing.

Daniel: They even found cocoa or something like that in one of the Egyptian tombs or something.

Alan: What they found – it was the Parisian group, surgeons in fact, that did a documentary. It's out there. You can get it and they took apart the stomach contents, even though it was mummified and all the rest of it, but cocaine as a pure substance. They did detect cocaine, which comes from South America; but the Phoenicians too were taking tin from England, Cornwall, for 500 years and they kept it secret to all their competitors where they were getting this tin because they mixed it with bronze to make copper. Also across Scotland too, there's Phoenician graves and mark-stones which were found, so these characters were all over the world.

Daniel: I'm sure and it's so funny because there's this – I can this kind of like they're trying to keep people from looking back at least 10,000 years. There's something there that they don't want us to look past 10,000 years ago.

Alan: That's right. That's why history began in the West (where we’re given history beginning) with Greece and Rome and so on, but you go into these prehistoric or at least megalithic type structures, even the ones in Peru, and these are incredible feats of engineering. They're all over the world the same types, plus the standing stones are all over the world with the mounds in the middle and the alignment of the stars. There was obviously a common connection between countries at one time in ancient times. They call it prehistory simply because we are not given the written works on it. Anything that's prewritten we simply are not given anything on it; but Barry Fell is the professor. You should read Barry Fell's book "America B.C." and the other ones he put out there that were fantastic works and he gives all the evidence of what they'd found.

Daniel: It seems like during the Roman conquest of Europe when the Roman church came and was trying to get rid of the remnants of that old age, when they came over here the rush seems to me was to get rid of all the shamans over here.

Alan: We know that when the first Roman invasions, it was pre-Christian – there were pre-Christian invasions of Britain and we do know that they rounded up all the Druids in many places and they burned them to death in big long houses. They burned them to death to eradicate them.

Daniel: Didn't they also – is it true that they took some of their religion and amalgamated it, kind of blended it into theirs?

Alan: You'll find basically in all the ancient world was a form of shamanism and it's called the "perennial religion." It keeps cropping up today. It's here today the same thing because it's very appealing to the individual to become a god. That's what's behind all of what they call New Age, it's really old age stuff; and through all the meditation techniques, the higher up you go, you're eventually told that you can become a god. That's the great delusion which they're full of and it's very handy for governments to train populations like that because they're taught to deny the negative, don't look it, look at the nice things in life – as their countries are slaughtering people across the planet.

Daniel: I know it works, believe me. I talk to people everyday and you can see their conditioning, kind of you can see it right on their face sometimes.

Alan: Yes, you do. I better go on to the next caller though.

Daniel: Well thank you Alan.

Alan: Thanks for calling. I have Jim from Texas. Are you there, Jim?

Jim: Yes, I'm here. Glad you started off your show talking about PNAC or Project for a New American Century, which is nothing but an update of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. This is the modern day, the last stage more or less in my opinion what it is.

Alan: Learned Elders of Zion is an interesting read. There's no doubt that whoever did write it certainly knew an agenda and that's what's perplexing about it all. We know again that there were high groups. We know too that before it came out in Russia that it was actually circulated in France about 60 years before that and it was altered again to blame just one group. Of course, too, we know that in the 1800's even Blavatsky's group at one point and other Masonic groups were calling themselves Zion with its learned elders. It's not a specifically Jewish thing at all, really, although Jews can join it, but whoever wrote it certainly did understand – even sports. They said they'd push sports to the extreme, at a time when there were no sports arenas anywhere in the West. Now they're everywhere. They knew those parts would be pushed in. They knew too that culture would have to be destroyed.

Now that was not a new theory because in the 1700's when all of this stuff first came out in the French Revolution, lots of the big writers, Voltaire and others, talked about the necessity to completely (and Proudhon afterwards and different ones), talked about the necessity to totally debase society – that all that was existing as moral, destroy it all step by step until there was no morality whatsoever or even the memory of what was moral, in order to bring in a new society. That's really what the same agenda is today.

Jim: That was started by Adam Weishaupt in Germany.

Alan: It was not started by Weishaupt at all. Weishaupt was only one man in one of the groups whose name popped up because they caught him.

Jim: Yeah, but to go back it was started in ancient Egypt or even before that, it's the same plan, same--

Alan: But this is how psychopaths again will always go in the same direction. You see, the only people truly, and psychiatrists all agree with this one thing in every study that's been done on psychopaths, psychopaths are the only people who are truly predictable by their natures. Therefore, they will always repeat the same formulas down through history when they get in control. They must always repeat the same scenarios.

Jim: Absolutely. They're like the scorpion and the frog. Why did you sting me in the middle of the river? Because that's what I do; and that's what these people do. They've been doing this for thousands of years and they cannot even control it. They don't even understand what they're doing, okay. They do it because that's what we do. That's what they did in the Boer War in England, which is controlled by this same ethic tribe that we're talking about.

Alan: It's not just one ethnic tribe here. What you're looking at is a conglomeration of psychopaths from all the dominant tribes that now belong to one. I mean Winston Churchill belonged to them just as much as the rest of them.

Jim: And Winston Churchill was bailed out by a certain ethic gentlemen in 1936 when he was going bankrupt and he became an obedient slave to him from there on after.

Alan: He was pally with Baruch but so were FDR and all the rest of them. These guys don't serve just the bankers. Psychopaths will interbred with every group and even Japanese.

Jim: Of course they do.

Alan: It's not just Jews. I mean most Jews have no idea of what we're talking about. At the top, as I say, you've got primarily just one thing that is recognizable and that's from all groups, all groups, and that's the psychopath who is interbred with the other psychopath. Believe you me, it wouldn't matter what you called them, any term at all, it's a psychopathic nature which will repeat ad nauseam until the public start to participate in their own destinies rather than sitting back and being entertained and to stop giving power to people that you're taught to almost worship. Everybody that they present to you to vote for, you know people literally grovel – and this is again a sad thing with human nature. They grovel in front. People grovel. The poorer they are the worse it is. They grovel to riches. They grovel and they bow their heads and they feel shame for their poverty.

Jim: For riches and power. It all goes back to the old I don't know actually where it originated from but the emperor has no clothes. Everybody would argue about well is this the most extraordinary finery I've ever seen or is it just – well, it's better than normal clothes.

Alan: I know. I have to gone on to the next guy. I have to keep going through. I've got five lined up here. Okay, we'll go to Moe in Oregon. Are you there, Moe?

Moe: Mr. Alan?Can you hear me good?

Alan: Yes. Be quick though. Be quick.

Moe: You see there is today my internet company because we have problems all the time we called them. They checked and then because we live on the fourth floor they came and they went on the top of some places out in the dark and they went and check everything so these people are spies. They come to your home and they look at everything in your home. They check everything. I mean what the hell. I mean to me I went through in such – I mean it was very, very awful; and you know is that happening in Canada too?

Alan: It will happen with certain people, if they put you on a list they will do it, yes.

Moe: And another thing that Iran, will the sanctions stop the bomb or start the war? Can you please answer that for us?

Alan: It's hard to say. I hear their top man in Iran is saying two things. It's like the forked tongue with the white man. It's difficult to say what game is going on here because he's already said he would give credence to the United Nations. I'm just wondering if the United Nations is getting built up to be the big hero that it was meant to be by all this fracas. They may bring us to the brink of war, terrorize us all and then they will tell us we can't go on like this and the UN must take over and everybody will breathe a sigh of relief, so who knows?

Moe: I see. Thank you very much Alan. Right now there is French exercise going on with the gulf countries and they have made an artificial island inside near to the Persian Gulf and they are attacking that island and et cetera. They made an artificial island inside near to Persian Gulf and then they are using that as target to practice with the French as of right now until five more days it's going on. Thank you very much Mr. Alan.

Alan: Thanks for calling. Bye now. Now we've got Andrew from Texas. Are you there, Andrew?

Andrew: Hi. No. It's Andrew in Victoria.

Alan: Okay. Go ahead.

Andrew: Hi Alan. I'm noticing that there may be some shifts going on, that is plans coming unraveled and I'm thinking specifically the last couple of weeks apparently a couple of stealth bombers in the U.S. Air Force have gone down. It's the first time it's ever happened and then the incident with the cruise missiles back in August, the six that went missing and five were found later. Those all seem to have the hallmarks of sabotage on them and it's occurring to me that enough people are starting to pay attention and wake up that some of the plans of the big boys are starting to come apart.

Alan: I don't know if it's even real what they tell us, because see they don't have to tell us anything that's really happening, so when they tell us that they flew a bunch of A-bombs somewhere by mistake, that just doesn't happen. They've got so many fail-safes they can't do that, so I wonder what their real game is. Is it to terrify us that the world is so unsafe? I don't know.

Andrew: It could be, as you say they don't have to tell us anything.

Alan: They don't. Believe you me, the biggest blunders they make they never tell you, so I'm very suspicious. They do want to terrorize the public in a thousand ways and this is another way to do it, to make us think, "my God we've got bombs missing now and it's happening right now, they're still losing them." That just does not happen with all the fail-safes. They don't lose planes or bombs or anything, or even go off in the wrong direction. It doesn't happen.

Andrew: Well that's true. That's not possible and switching gears slightly I wanted to mention another book called "Cloak of Green" by Elaine Dewar.

Alan: I've heard of that one.

Andrew: I've got it on order. Apparently, she spends about a fifth of the book taking apart Maurice Strong, of course you know about, and it's telling that of course I went to my local library system and not available. I went to my local university where I had a card, not available, and I think I managed to find a copy and hopefully its on its way, but again it shows you – and yet the university here teaches environmental sciences and so on and yet anything that detracts from what they're teaching simply isn't available to these students.

Alan: That's the standard way. Universities are the main way to shape – I think it was Thatcher that said that years ago. She says we must make sure the university students get the main indoctrinations because they become the future leaders and they must believe what they're taught; so they limit access to any conflicting data so that they will come through their education truly believing they know it all and it's all the harder to break through to them then because they truly do believe they know it all. It works that easily. I'll be back with more. Hang on after these messages.

Hello. I'm Alan Watt Cutting Through the Matrix on the last leg of this talk and is the caller still on the line?

Andrew: Hi Alan.

Alan: Did you have anything left to add?

Andrew: No, not really, but certainly what you're talking about with the universities and essentially dumbing people down and of course the problem we run into is that we're also brainwashed to accept people with certain credentials.

Alan: That's correct, the experts.

Andrew: I'll go and let somebody get on the line and we'll talk again.

Alan: Okay. Thanks for calling.

Andrew: Thanks Alan. Bye.

Alan: Now we've got Adrian from Washington. Are you there, Adrian?

Adrian: Hello Alan.

Alan: How are you doing?

Adrian: Good. How about yourself?

Alan: I'm kicking on.

Adrian: All right, that sounds good. Hey, I know we don't have enough time but I wanted point the listeners out to a movie that I ran upon and it's called "Return to Red." It deals with the HAARP technology and it starts off with a quote from Zbigniew Brzezinski and low budget and parts of the movie are a bit dramatic but it's worth looking at. There were times when you described how the HAARP was done over the shortwave radio, like the woomp-woomp-woomp, and they had that exact same noise inside of the movie.

Alan: What was the name of this movie?

Adrian: "Return to Red".

Alan: "Return to Red". Is it a recent one or an old one?

Adrian: It looked old to me but it's labeled 2007, but it looks like an older movie, but it's definitely worth looking at. The over exaggerated parts, the effects of what happens to the people – you see people banging their heads against the wall, things like that, their nose bleeding, all of that, and I understand that's part of Hollywood but it deals with ultra-magnetic frequencies affecting mental states so it's definitely worth checking out.

Alan: I will do. I'll try that one.

Adrian: Also, if you have time, I'd like to contact you after the show a little bit. I don't want to take up your time. I know you've got to get something to eat and everything.

Alan: Yes, you could. Give me 20 minutes to start the uploads first.

Adrian: All right.

Alan: I'll talk to you again.

Adrian: All right. Bye.

Alan: I know Adrian. We do have chatting back and forth, and I don't know if we've got time. We'll try. We’ve got is it [Mathoon] in California?

Mathoon: Hi.

Alan: Hello. Go ahead.

Mathoon: Yes. I had a question about – you spoke of or you wrote about troglodytes in your first book and you talked about perfect possession the other day. I was just curious how those two are related and how those two interact at the top of the chain?

Alan: Troglodytes again is a term given by the ancient Greeks. They called them the Horites when Rome was ruling that area and you also find Horites mixing supposedly with the northern tribes of Israel in the old Bible. They were albino-type people, very ferocious and then interbred with Manasseh who became ferocious, red-haired, blue-eyed and they actually fought against the rest of the tribes of Israel. Long, long story but you can't really fill all in at this time and the music is coming in for the ending. Maybe we can go into that in another show.

Mathoon: Thanks.

Alan: Thanks for calling. Well, from Hamish and myself, up here in Ontario, Canada, where it's rather icy and snowy, it's good night and may your god or your gods go with you.


(Transcribed by Linda)
http://visit.webhosting.yahoo.com/vi...2&j=true&v=1.2 http://visit.webhosting.yahoo.com/vi...f?us1222127109

Long Inhale....

tl;dr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Long Inhale....

tl;dr

---

"Well, they know that because they gave all the war games to the children 20 years ago to make sure there's a generation of nihilistic barbarians for this particular time in history because they want them in the military and go off and slaughter people abroad and wipe out all animals and people in kill zones and throw puppies over cliffs. That's the system. See, they gave us that, with the media too, because the media too and entertainment industry works with the security intelligence services, always planning and bringing on a culture for the future which they've planned and we're surprised and when it happens, like yeah. "


Now how could we eradicate these "programming" that is within? MMMMM maybe lucid dreaming? But the programming isn't within US is it.

I was kind of looking for a brief point by point synopsis as well as highlights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I was kind of looking for a brief point by point synopsis as well as highlights.

---

That would be giving you my point of view. You have a mind. Use and protect it. Don't allow others to shape your points of view.

Right so instead I should allow them to shape my point of view and greatly exceed my own attention span in the process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Right so instead I should allow them to shape my point of view and greatly exceed my own attention span in the process.

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Are you just allowing the information to be downloaded into you? Are you not using your conscious discernment and reasoning power? Why do you read if not to glean information worthy or unworthy of your consideration?

Yes, we've been so trained not to think, let others do that for us. I understand. Hey, perhaps you can exercise and stretch your attention span in the process, thereby developing more conscious awareness in order to assist you in being a great conscious/sentient lucid dreamer!!

No.

I wish to puke on your face, FOREVERLUCID.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omicron

I wish to puke on your face, FOREVERLUCID.

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I hear your pain body speaking loud and clear. Not to worry, it will be dissolved one day and we will all know wholeness. Also, if ya can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!!:banana:

I don't think you read it all either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I don't think you read it all either.

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So school me!:D

9/11 conspiracies are the biggest crock of bullshit I have ever read.

Read the Loose Change Guide and all of you truthers shut the fuck up.

Okay.

I'll be fair; link?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Okay.

I'll be fair; link?

---

Awwww shucks, you don't have to thank me.:oops: It's the least I could do. I can see you been a waiting for a bit!!


"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogmas."

G. Brock Chisholm, co-founder of the World Federation for Mental Health, former director of UN World Health Organization.

Top 25 Censored Stories for 2009

• # 1 Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation
• # 2. Security and Prosperity Partnership: Militarized NAFTA
• # 3. InfraGard: The FBI Deputizes Business
• # 4. ILEA: Is the US Restarting Dirty Wars in Latin America?
• # 5. Seizing War Protesters’ Assets
• # 6. The Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
• # 7. Guest Workers Inc.: Fraud and Human Trafficking
• # 8. Executive Orders Can Be Changed Secretly
• # 9. Iraq and Afghanistan Vets Testify
• # 10. APA Complicit in CIA Torture
• # 11. El Salvador’s Water Privatization and the Global War on Terror
• # 12. Bush Profiteers Collect Billions From No Child Left Behind
• # 13. Tracking Billions of Dollars Lost in Iraq
• # 14. Mainstreaming Nuclear Waste
• # 15. Worldwide Slavery
• # 16. Annual Survey on Trade Union Rights
• # 17. UN’s Empty Declaration of Indigenous Rights
• # 18. Cruelty and Death in Juvenile Detention Centers
• # 19. Indigenous Herders and Small Farmers Fight Livestock Extinction
• # 20. Marijuana Arrests Set New Record
• # 21. NATO Considers “First Strike” Nuclear Option
• # 22. CARE Rejects US Food Aid
• # 23. FDA Complicit in Pushing Pharmaceutical Drugs
• # 24. Japan Questions 9/11 and the Global War on Terror
• # 25. Bush’s Real Problem with Eliot Spitzer

Do you have anything original or insightful to say or point out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Do you have anything original or insightful to say or point out?

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My posts speak for themselves:banana:

Yes, and they are shouting "PARANOIA PARANOIA CONSPIRACY PARANOIA ANARCHY". Do make them stop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Yes, and they are shouting "PARANOIA PARANOIA CONSPIRACY PARANOIA ANARCHY". Do make them stop.

---

Amongst a whole lot of other intriguing facts and ideas:banana::banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FOREVERLUCID

Amongst a whole lot of other intriguing facts and ideas:banana::banana:

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No. They are not.


How is it that not even the people who agree with you on here like you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omicron

No. They are not.


How is it that not even the people who agree with you on here like you?

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To embittered you yes, but to myself and others I've heard from, definitely yes!!http://www.whosdatedwho.com/pictures/G/6/G6X4A8.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FOREVERLUCID

To embittered you yes, but to myself and others I've heard from, definitely yes!!http://www.whosdatedwho.com/pictures/G/6/G6X4A8.jpg

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Fuck off, Mystic7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Fuck off, Mystic7.

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I have no more time for you, so kindly stop contacting me. Thanks very much, it's been a slice kicking your mental butt!!:banana::boogie::bowdown::roll:

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/...powerline1.jpg

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/pictures/G/6/G6X4A8.jpg

The NWO Tries to bring about the most fear they can possibly create..

Just do me a favor, dreamhope, if ever a group of alien saviors come to this planet and offer you "enlightenment" or to "complete your evolution" merely by forcing a chrystalized computer chip into your brain... say no

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Just do me a favor, dreamhope, if ever a group of alien saviors come to this planet and offer you "enlightenment" or to "complete your evolution" merely by forcing a chrystalized computer chip into your brain... say no

---

You don't need a computer chip for enlightenment, you simply meditate and find the truth deep within yourself..

Hello :)

Sorry for digging this up.

But I wanted to point out a german documentary on that matter that I found a lot more convincing than all of the Alex Jones' documentaries for example. In my opinion he is far too agressive and jumps to conclusions so fast that leaves a lot of doubt in anything he says. (Also saw his show recently..)

I found a version with english subtitles (and the scenes of government representatives are of course still in english) and in my opinion it deals with the matter of the 9/11 attacks in a more "objective" way, even though I don't think there is such a thing as objectivity. And I think it leaves no doubt in why a reinvestigation is justified - without jumping to any conclusions too quickly. Still points a few fingers, though. :-)

Certainly it will give a lot of good arguments for the sceptics on the events of that day.

(part 1/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=PG_N7h...x=0&playnext=1
(part 2/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Q2yK...48CDB2&index=1
(part 3/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Bke3Np...48CDB2&index=2
(part 4/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=4m3mIE...48CDB2&index=3
(part 5/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBLSq...48CDB2&index=4
(part 6/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=di9FwF...48CDB2&index=5
(part 7/7)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mFZZcC...48CDB2&index=6

I would really be interested in what either side thinks of this film.

Very good, solid film. One of the few I've seen that doesn't seem too over the top but rater seems to be much more rooted in reality.

Quote:

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ridiculous conspiracy theory

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Yeah, that's the official story for you. :lol:

To many things wrong with 911 I never seen an accidental successful demolition without explosives involving planes before. Oh I mean a accidental faster than free fall speed pancaking of the towers involving planes....I mean 3 building one not involving planes pancaking perfectly. I mean two buildings exploding into dust, and one controlled demolition without a plane.

Sounds like hi-jackers had nothing to do with it. Media must be able to time travel too. Saying building 7 collapsed and it's still standing. What a co-incidence it collapsed 20 minutes later.

Pattern pattern, hey? lol.

Also kind of interesting, regarding recent political events - the stand of the largest oppositional party in Japan:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=1eOpZMBcYdw

Oct 08

Just roll with it people. Everybody knows Bush did this for oil money, so lets just let it go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Just roll with it people

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Yeah the towers are collapsing everyone is running for their lives dieing screaming dust everywhere. Then you call out "roll with it people, just roll, or rock and roll".

Leader of cult roll with it Half/Dreaming held a protest today. They got their signs up. "roll with it" protest. "Roll with it, roll with it, roll with it". They all chanted as the police state and big brother became all too obvious.

In the loudspeaker half dreaming said: "roll with it people, we know what's happening. Just roll into Mcdonalds we know how fat you are. Do you want fries with this? Roll with the terrorist. They did it for oil, they did it for money. So leave them alone, let it go".

The 9/11 attacks never happened. Don't believe everything you see in the media.

Don't believe the FBI either. There is no mention of the 9/11 attacks on the Osama wanted page.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I know which timeline you're coming from. George bush died chocking on a pretzel. Your in the wrong timeline. In that version yes the media screwed up and reported a collapsed and no planes came. But that's when they really stuffed it up. In this timeline they only got building 7 wrong when they said it collapsed. They still managed to press the detonator 20 minutes later and George bush just made it past eating his pretzel.

---

But in this timeline, Dionne Warwick and the Psychic Friends Network informed the media that, "Duh, Building 7 is obviously about to collapse." So a reporter assumed it already had. (*Twilight Zone music playing*)

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/...zel_bruise.jpg

We know this timeline. Maybe I can find some pictures from your timeline to share for others here less informed about where you have come from.

Here is Bush after the pretzel incident dead.
http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/...10_funeral.jpg


Here is a picture from UMs time line after the media says a plane hit the building....
http://www.assassinationscience.com/...in_towers2.jpg

And this is Mccain Trying to get new terror laws in after no 911 event.
http://home.mchsi.com/~jdeeth/mccainlaffin.jpeg

After the failure of 911 they tried a new scam. This time the story goes a Pakistan terrorist released a boulder.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/bore.jpg

After this it got so bad in UMs timeline they had to replace Bill O'reilly
http://www.foxnews.com/images/242820/0_61_320_ablow.jpg

Around this time they opened George Bushes memorial to the public.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/14...7dfacc.jpg?v=0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

Don't believe the FBI either. There is no mention of the 9/11 attacks on the Osama wanted page.

---

Don't even get me started on your timeline.

http://www.arhama.com/wp-content/upl...in-veitnam.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

But in this timeline, Dionne Warwick and the Psychic Friends Network informed the media that, "Duh, Building 7 is obviously about to collapse." So a reporter assumed it already had.)

---

Wrong timeline again. The laws of physics must be changed in that one. Here buildings can't collapse on their own, and the media doesn't believe in psychic ability but gets sources the from military industrial complex instead. In this timeline the military made a mistake when they didn't stick to the correct script. This made the media look psychic when the military gave them the wrong timing on what they were going to do.

I know which timeline your talking about though...One where Al-gore has gone insane thinking the sky is about to collapse cause the laws of physics kept changing.

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/MilitaryBallotBox.jpg

Strange timeline that was
http://visibility911.com/blog/wp-con...-hit-piece.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Don't even get me started on your timeline.

http://www.arhama.com/wp-content/upl...in-veitnam.jpg

---

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or just having fun, but look for yourself:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

In this link they call him Usama bin laden instead of Osama, and wanted for bombings in 1998 instead 911. What timeline have you ditched me in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Wrong timeline again. The laws of physics must be changed in that one. Here buildings can't collapse on their own, and the media doesn't believe in psychic ability but gets sources the from military industrial complex instead. In this timeline the military made a mistake when they didn't stick to the correct script. This made the media look psychic when the military gave them the wrong timing on what they were going to do.

---

Dionne Warwick works for the Military Industrial Complex as the host of Solid Gold. They discovered the 7th rule of thermodynamics, which is that flying passenger airplanes can collapse skyscrapers and that crumbling skyscrapers are very, very bad for the surrounding buildings. The discovery won Dionne and the Solid Gold dancers a banana. :banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Dapf_NKcE

Quote:

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They discovered the 7th rule of thermodynamics, which is that flying passenger airplanes can collapse skyscrapers and that crumbling skyscrapers are very, very bad for the surrounding buildings.

---

I don't believe in the 7th rule of thermodynamics from the military industrial complex then. They should change it to the law of 911 policestatedynamics. Which is actually the fact that no debris hit building 7 which had criminal evidence, and that the towers structure does not allow it to beat gravity even if it could explode without dynamite. The 7th law of policestatedynamics tells us by creating a fictional story with CIA agent Osama they can convince more people to give up more freedom under new terrorism laws. Creating a bigger and better police State new world oder. That's the 7th law of military industrial policestate false flag dynamics to create the NWO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I don't believe in the 7th rule of thermodynamics from the military industrial complex then. They should change it to the law of 911 policestatedynamics. Which is actually the fact that no debris hit building 7 which had criminal evidence, and that the towers structure does not allow it to beat gravity even if it could explode without dynamite. The 7th law of policestatedynamics tells us by creating a fictional story with CIA agent Osama they can convince more people to give up more freedom under new terrorism laws. Creating a bigger and better police State new world oder. That's the 7th law of military industrial policestate false flag dynamics to create the NWO.

---

To the great misfortune of all of us, the Solid Gold clip of Peaches and Herb with Dionne Warwick and the Solid Gold dancers will no longer play, so I give you THIS instead. :goodjob2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v7npHG_0Fk

If only it could prove my theory as effectively as the other video. :( Then you would know of the dangers of falling skyscrapers and professional wrestling web sites.

Speaking of solid gold. Time for the news!

All I know is that the government's story doesn't add up

You know what's really funny.
I was actually serious about some of this conspiracy...

Then I watched that southpark episode.
It seriously makes a good point. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordSturm

It seriously makes a good point. :P

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What point? I didn't watch it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

What point? I didn't watch it.

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The idea that it serves the government to have people thinking that they did pull off 9/11 to make them think the government is more powerful and more organized than it really is.

Going on about this kinda stuff isnt bringing back the people who died on 9/11 what if my dad or mom died on 9/11 and i seen this and it totally upset me? and then i killed myself?
Just leave it theres no bringing back the fire fighters the police men and innocent people who died..

Then shouldn't we stop the legal system as well. Who cares who killed person x, if it isn't going to bring him back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

Then shouldn't we stop the legal system as well. Who cares who killed person x, if it isn't going to bring him back.

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Yes. People who feel the need to kill people need help not punishment.