Thread: Is suicide a cowar- should we eat meat?

Originally Posted by Howie

I see your point.
Freedom of pain could be construed as gaining something no?
In the case of the person dieing there could be more than one answer. If there is no after life then there would be no gain regardless of how it is perceived. If, like some religions, then a suicide, like a martyr, would hold room for gain, which imo is a little bizarre.

Yeah, like I said earlier, everything I'm saying is in regards to non-afterlife expectation suicide, because that's where the question makes sense. Obviously, if a person thinks they'll get 72 virgins in heaven for killing themselves, then them killing themselves was a selfish act, because their intention was selfish. But suicide to relieve suffering alone can't be selfish in my view.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

What does a person stand to gain by killing themself?

They don't have to gain anything. That's not being selfish.

Selfishness is when you are only concerned with yourself and your own problems.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

They don't have to gain anything. That's not being selfish.

Selfishness is when you are only concerned with yourself and your own problems.

I would posit that such a ridiculous definition would mean that every single human being who has ever lived is selfish. I would define selfishness as the willingness to sacrifice others' wellbeing to actively increase your own.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I would posit that such a ridiculous definition would mean that every single human being who has ever lived is selfish. I would define selfishness as the willingness to sacrifice others' wellbeing to actively increase your own.

So you don't think someone who just doesn't give a shit about anyone but themselves is selfish?

Actually I'd define selfishness as an unwillingness to compromise for the whole. You can say all the existentialist shit you want to, but we are and always have been apart of something bigger and more important than ourselves.

And loving people is how we're designed, we're meant to enjoy serving others. But now we're taught to hold onto shit and make our own territory and defend it against everyone else. When you're taught to live for yourself, and you realize how empty and worthless it is to live for yourself, what choice do you have but suicide?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Actually I'd define selfishness as an unwillingness to compromise for the whole. You can say all the existentialist shit you want to, but we are and always have been apart of something bigger and more important than ourselves.

And loving people is how we're designed, we're meant to enjoy serving others. But now we're taught to hold onto shit and make our own territory and defend it against everyone else. When you're taught to live for yourself, and you realize how empty and worthless it is to live for yourself, what choice do you have but suicide?

Actually, that isn't true.

Humans have incredibly high sense of self-preservation, like most mammals.

All we care about is surviving.

We are born selfless and innocent because we rely a lot on learned behavior, like other mammals with large brains; like otrher primates, and elephants.

I mean, if you had a group of children who were separated from other humans, they would either die out or create their own culture/unculture. They'd never fit with other humans.

You are actually born underdeveloped compared to other animals because of your intelligence capabilities.

Being packing and territorial is just apart of being human. Selfishness is just a word to describe a behavior.

So how does that make what I said untrue? Because you can only be right if I am wrong?

And loving people is how we're designed, we're meant to enjoy serving others.

We aren't.

That clearer?

If we are evolutionarily designed to work together, then isn't that the same thing as saying we're designed to serve and love each other?

I don't understand what you mean.

Packing =/= Herding.

Humans DO NOT have a hive mentality. We do not make up a big colony that is the human race.

We are 'designed' to procreate, etc.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

The majority of suicides are commited by people who either lost their jobs, lost their girlfriend/boyfriend, or don't fit in at school. I have experienced all of the above, and I feel no sorrow.

Nailed it, that's exactly why people kill themselves.

Originally Posted by tnemrot

Nailed it, that's exactly why people kill themselves.

I hope you're being sarcastic. The aforementioned factors are merely catalysts, not causes. It takes a lifetime of emotional abuse to make a person turn to suicide.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I hope you're being sarcastic. The aforementioned factors are merely catalysts, not causes. It takes a lifetime of emotional abuse to make a person turn to suicide.

I smelled a hint of sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Howie

The may just want an escape from the hell they live, not wishing to hurt anyone in the process.

Everyone goes through hard times in life. People who commit suicide are weak - mentally.

"Hard Times" are relative, you have no idea what people go through. The mental strain can be unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

"Hard Times" are relative, you have no idea what people go through. The mental strain can be unbelievable.

I know what people go through. But still, no matter how awful their life may be they shouldn't commit suicide. Life is too valuable.

Originally Posted by Temperamental

I know what people go through. But still, no matter how awful their life may be they shouldn't commit suicide. Life is too valuable.

And why would you be the one to assign value to life. Are you "god"?

um, no. Just that every human life is valuable. Life shouldn't be thrown away like that.

That's just your opinion due to upbringing and culture. The japanese, for example, don't really see suicide as something bad. I don't want to attack you, but saying that something shouldn't be done doesn't bring any insight as to why one shouldn't kill oneself. I'm not some suicide fanatic, I wish as much life as possible (hopefully full of happiness instead of pain) to everyone, but I see suicide as some universal right of every living thing. There are many scenarios where suicide might seem a good decision.

Whenever idiots talk about life always always being better than death no matter what, I just bring up the canonical example of a person who is completely paralyzed, deaf, and blind. Or better yet, all they can feel is extreme pain. That's an example of death being better than life. Therefore, the assertion that life is always better is false.

I also agree human life has no real value. We made it up. Value isn't real, it's an invention of your head. Just how fear is only fear, value is the only value.

I'd say what is truly courageous, though, is choosing not to commit suicide when facing the real knowledge that your life will never improve and that everything you've ever attached "value" to is merely an illusion. That, however, is more courage than most people have, which is why they lie to themselves.

Originally Posted by Temperamental

Everyone goes through hard times in life. People who commit suicide are weak - mentally.

Fuck you.

Originally Posted by Temperamental

I know what people go through. But still, no matter how awful their life may be they shouldn't commit suicide. Life is too valuable.

Selfish it might be, but you are certainly in no position to tell people what is or is not right at this level, man...

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I also agree human life has no real value. We made it up. Value isn't real, it's an invention of your head. Just how fear is only fear, value is the only value.

I'd say what is truly courageous, though, is choosing not to commit suicide when facing the real knowledge that your life will never improve and that everything you've ever attached "value" to is merely an illusion. That, however, is more courage than most people have, which is why they lie to themselves.

But, going by what you said, even if the person did know that they would find fame and fortune during their lifetime, why stay living when it's all meaningless anyway? This entire thread seems like an extremely pessimistic way at viewing existence.

I've always wondered though. Why don't people who commit suicide give themselves, I don't know, a couple days, maybe weeks more for their life to improve. It seems that if you wanted to end your misery now and then held off for a bit, everything afterwards would seem like a bonus. Why would you kill yourself now if that option is open to you at any time?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Fuck you.

And obviously this guy used to know someone who did commit suicide. I wouldn't delve any deeper. Still, calling those people weakminded is in itself a closedminded statement.