Some Indications of the State of The Nation (U.S.)

U.S. Unemployment Rate History
http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp

Its funny to scroll through it and watch it steadily climb from Nixon through Bush senior, Then steadily drop to 30 year lows Through Clinton, and then turn back up the moment GW steps into office.

Keep in mind, its two months behind and things are changing quickly these days. The current unemployment rate is up to 6.5%

Dow Jones average 1974-oct 31 2008
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/dow-long.html

Notice how it averages a steady climb until about oh...2001 or so, where it just about levels off (if you average the 9/11 drop and the top of the 2006 bubble) and then drops drastically. Its currently at 8,943.81, which is damn close to the 9/11 panic numbers.

The U.S. National Debt as a percentage of our Gross Domestic Product
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

If you know anything about finance lingo, the GDP is our Gross worth (duh), and this graph is our Net Worth. Not looking so good these days. The higher the percentage, the lower our Net worth. Funny how the same trend is mirrored in the unemployment graph, and that they both show such clear changes when a Reagan or a Bush takes over.


I can't wait until GW is historically recognized as the worst president to ever hold office in the United States.

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Not looking so good these days.

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You don't say. I wonder why that is. Maybe because money is debt. There wouldn't be a dollar left if the worlds debt was paid.

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If you know anything about finance lingo

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Here we go again, trying to think your informed. If you know about finance you would be pulling your hair out right now. Everyone else in the know is. IT COLLAPSING WE ALL GOING BROKE.

George bush was not the problem don't you get it yet it's not politics that is in control of it.

I don't believe he said it was; besides, to be technical if the fed control it all, it is still politics.

Presidents do matter to some degree, regardless of who is in ultimate "control" of the money. You watch a few films and you are smarter than everyone else apparently...

The fed do not control it either. It goes deeper than that. It's the law that does it. The law that tricks you. What president has mattered recently? Yes, that's right. Absolutely nothing to help anyone. They are not authorized to print money or a currency. They are not authorized to fix any of the problems that matter. Name a problem they can fix that would do any good and I'll tell you what law overides it. Their position is a contract agreement which they give away certain rights which would allow them to help people.

All income tax goes to national debt. Your income tax is not paying for any services. It's paying for debt only. Which then goes towards another loan and the entire cycle will repeat. Then you think inflation is natural. Inflation is cause you accepted national debt and the currency which is privately owned that demand interest beyond the loans that cannot be repaid. Every time our income tax goes towards paying back the loan, we are still in debt from interest and to keep the cycle going must borrow more money. So then more interest goes on top of it. The debt gets larger till inflation becomes so bad that it makes everyone broke. You think it's all ok that it's genuine? It's getting to the point now where everyone will be broke and the controllers plan is working fine, they'll get all the wealth and property and everything they planned to steal from the beginning. Because people were too ignorant to understand their rights.

The president can't help you with it.

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

You don't say. I wonder why that is. Maybe because money is debt. There wouldn't be a dollar left if the worlds debt was paid.



Here we go again, trying to think your informed. If you know about finance you would be pulling your hair out right now. Everyone else in the know is. IT COLLAPSING WE ALL GOING BROKE.

George bush was not the problem don't you get it yet it's not politics that is in control of it.

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Delete your account. No one on this forum likes you.

They all like me I know the truth and you are doomed. My account will never be finished.

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

The fed do not control it either. It goes deeper than that. It's the law that does it. The law that tricks you. What president has mattered recently? Yes, that's right. Absolutely nothing to help anyone. They are not authorized to print money or a currency. They are not authorized to fix any of the problems that matter. Name a problem they can fix that would do any good and I'll tell you what law overides it. Their position is a contract agreement which they give away certain rights which would allow them to help people.

All income tax goes to national debt. Your income tax is not paying for any services. It's paying for debt only. Which then goes towards another loan and the entire cycle will repeat. Then you think inflation is natural. Inflation is cause you accepted national debt and the currency which is privately owned that demand interest beyond the loans that cannot be repaid. Every time our income tax goes towards paying back the loan, we are still in debt from interest and to keep the cycle going must borrow more money. So then more interest goes on top of it. The debt gets larger till inflation becomes so bad that it makes everyone broke. You think it's all ok that it's genuine? It's getting to the point now where everyone will be broke and the controllers plan is working fine, they'll get all the wealth and property and everything they planned to steal from the beginning. Because people were too ignorant to understand their rights.

The president can't help you with it.

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I agree that money without backing, especially when it's being printed by a large government body, is very bad, but that doesn't mean money is bad in general. If we just went to a system of strict gold backing (or platinum, or whatever else), a lot of our problems would vanish.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Delete your account. No one on this forum likes you.

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i like her. so stfu

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Originally Posted by ranma187

i like her. so stfu

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You must like people who can't reply without insulting someone. You're definitely a minority.

Oh no wait. You only like her because she's the only member who agrees with your crazy conspiracy theory bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You must like people who can't reply without insulting someone. You're definitely a minority.

Oh no wait. You only like her because she's the only member who agrees with your crazy conspiracy theory bullshit.

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Well i don't like you. yet you seem to result to the same tactic of not replying without insulting someone.

You're all being insulting btw
You don't need to *like* each other, but be friendly at least, or be quiet (about the person in question)
This is an open forum, and there's no need to bring this crap out in the open, right?

For those of you who haven't been paying attention, it looks like its a good time to bring this back to make some comparisons.

When I first posted this thread, Unemployment was at 6.5%. Now its at 7.6%

The Dow Jones was at around 8500. Since then, its hit down around 7500 and has since climbed and then fallen back down to the upper 7000's. Still has a downward trend (it will for awhile).

The National Debt was around 10.6 trillion, now its up another hundred billion to around 10.7 trillion.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

For those of you who haven't been paying attention, it looks like its a good time to bring this back to make some comparisons.

When I first posted this thread, Unemployment was at 6.5%. Now its at 7.6%

The Dow Jones was at around 8500. Since then, its hit down around 7500 and has since climbed and then fallen back down to the upper 7000's. Still has a downward trend (it will for awhile).

The National Debt was around 10.6 trillion, now its up another hundred billion to around 10.7 trillion.

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Lets hope the trend continues.

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Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

The fed do not control it either. It goes deeper than that. It's the law that does it. The law that tricks you. What president has mattered recently? Yes, that's right. Absolutely nothing to help anyone. They are not authorized to print money or a currency. They are not authorized to fix any of the problems that matter. Name a problem they can fix that would do any good and I'll tell you what law overides it. Their position is a contract agreement which they give away certain rights which would allow them to help people.

All income tax goes to national debt. Your income tax is not paying for any services. It's paying for debt only. Which then goes towards another loan and the entire cycle will repeat. Then you think inflation is natural. Inflation is cause you accepted national debt and the currency which is privately owned that demand interest beyond the loans that cannot be repaid. Every time our income tax goes towards paying back the loan, we are still in debt from interest and to keep the cycle going must borrow more money. So then more interest goes on top of it. The debt gets larger till inflation becomes so bad that it makes everyone broke. You think it's all ok that it's genuine? It's getting to the point now where everyone will be broke and the controllers plan is working fine, they'll get all the wealth and property and everything they planned to steal from the beginning. Because people were too ignorant to understand their rights.

The president can't help you with it.

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Haha. Tell that to Bill.

who was lucky enough to be in office during one of our biggest economic booms thanks to a technology our military developed?

anyways, I really hope Obama does change this trend, but Im not holding my breath either. Looks like we need to invent another sweet technology.

New technology cannot pull us out. The current crisis is based on the failings of a fractional reserve system that is only sustained through exponential inflation. We have reached a point in the course of this system at which enough production to support the rapid rate of inflation simply cannot exist. Fractional reserve systems are designed to be reset by a depression.

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Originally Posted by tkdyo

who was lucky enough to be in office during one of our biggest economic booms thanks to a technology our military developed?

anyways, I really hope Obama does change this trend, but Im not holding my breath either. Looks like we need to invent another sweet technology.

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Or maybe Bill knew how to do his job because shortly after Bush took office our deficit seemed to jump back up.

Looks like we need to invent another scapegoat for poor Bush and his horrible handling of the economy and his job as President in general.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

New technology cannot pull us out. The current crisis is based on the failings of a fractional reserve system that is only sustained through exponential inflation. We have reached a point in the course of this system at which enough production to support the rapid rate of inflation simply cannot exist. Fractional reserve systems are designed to be reset by a depression.

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yes, I agree. I was being a little sarcastic and a little serious, but with what you said I completely agree.

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Originally Posted by DeathCell

Or maybe Bill knew how to do his job because shortly after Bush took office our deficit seemed to jump back up.

Looks like we need to invent another scapegoat for poor Bush and his horrible handling of the economy and his job as President in general.

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Bill did not, and see above :D

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Originally Posted by DeathCell

Or maybe Bill knew how to do his job because shortly after Bush took office our deficit seemed to jump back up.

Looks like we need to invent another scapegoat for poor Bush and his horrible handling of the economy and his job as President in general.

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This depression has been foreseen for awhile now by the people who are paid to know about these sorts of things. Although I don't think he did anything differently than what most people would do in his situation, Clinton most likely had access to the information that would clue him in to this future but did nothing because he knew it would probably be smooth sailing until long after he was out of the game.

Why spend the almost certainly futile effort it would take to overhaul the fractional reserve system when everything seems like its on the up and up? For that matter, who would buy it if he said we needed to change things while the country was in it's greatest boom in history? People only want change when things are bad, even if we knew they were going to be bad and could have fixed it long before.

I don't see how 10 something years ago this current depression was foreseeable... It was not foreseeable till Bush had already sent us down the path of spend, spend, spend. No one knew what was going on with corporations and their problems...

The real problem is allowing all our work to go overseas. (one of them anyway..)

Clinton pulled us out of a deficit and Bush NAILED us down a ridiculous amount in 8 years.

you do realize Clinton aided in that job outsourcing right?

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Originally Posted by tkdyo

you do realize Clinton aided in that job outsourcing right?

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Didn't say he helped, and neither did Bush.

Clinton aided us in getting out of a deficit, and Bush put us billions of dollars into it.

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Originally Posted by DeathCell

I don't see how 10 something years ago this current depression was foreseeable... It was not foreseeable till Bush had already sent us down the path of spend, spend, spend. No one knew what was going on with corporations and their problems...

The real problem is allowing all our work to go overseas. (one of them anyway..)

Clinton pulled us out of a deficit and Bush NAILED us down a ridiculous amount in 8 years.

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The author of a website I read claims to have been predicting this for the last 30 years. I know he has been predicting it at least for the last ten (so since before Bush 2) because of archives of his website here. The date on that is 1998.

There were a bunch of people, who were predicting these economical problems a while back. (Recurring Cycle) Those people usually were independent experts and historians (this sort), but NOT the politicians - who barely see things in the historical context, rather than just the 'now', especially if popularity and vote count are far more important than actual knowledge.

Noone up there seems to be even considering, what some of the decisions we make today, might possibly do to the people tomorrow. I always wonder, why it is always the seemingly most narrow-minded, self-deluded and arrogant pricks, that run things.

This was the most awesome/awful(read as: filling me with a great and terrible awe) piece of Bernanke's testimony today.

Very interesting video Xaqaria!

It was an interesting video, though I wouldn't entirely abandon Bernanke's view on account of it. Understanding where he's coming from is an important part of understanding where we're coming from on current policy.

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Originally Posted by Taosaur

It was an interesting video, though I wouldn't entirely abandon Bernanke's view on account of it. Understanding where he's coming from is an important part of understanding where we're coming from on current policy.

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Where do you think he is coming from? Do you think his warnings about what would happen if the fed were to be audited are valid?

Even after the President promises no higher than 8% unemployment if the trillions of dollar-bailouts come through, we skyrocket up and up in unemployment. And those numbers do not take consideration of all the people without jobs. It is much higher than that. Sad, really. And the bit about Bush being the worst, sure he was bad but... remember Carter the peanut farmer? One of the worst in recent memory.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

UIts funny to scroll through it and watch it steadily climb from Nixon through Bush senior, Then steadily drop to 30 year lows Through Clinton, and then turn back up the moment GW steps into office.

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Congress makes federal laws, not the president.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Congress makes federal laws, not the president.

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That is true. Do you think that the executive administration's policies have any effect on unemployment rates(which is what the bit you quoted was referring to)?

that is, while techically correct, quite silly UM. The presiden has veto power, pushes for bills, has the vice president kicking it in the senate for those tight votes and serves as an ambassador to the people. While the congress writes them, it is always with an eye to how the current administration will react to it except for those rare bills where there is broad enough congressional support to overturn a veto. In that case, the president would be stupid for vetoing it in the first place.

A second count on which that fails as a refutation of xaqaria's point is that it is the executive that enforces the laws. The president appoints many of the people in charge of doing so and business will very quickly get a sense for where the administration and their appointees stand on issues.

A good argument would be to say that clinton was running shit during the 'pax' americana of the nineties that reagan/bush 1 delivered to him on a silver platter. Being an unchallenged military/cultural superpower of the world is apparently good for the economy so long as you don't take your position of power for granted and let it decay.