Disclosure Project (Press Conference)/Official Sources

I am sceptical about this.
Neither am I saying that I believe it nor that I don't.
But that's also besides the point: My intend is to start
a serious debate on a controversial matter- not on a
personal level, but strictly 'factual', if possible

So, I'm wondering...
what do you think of the Disclosure Projects at the National Press Club in 2001 and 2007 on here?




.part1
.playlist

That's as official as it gets, I guess.
It shouldn't be impossible to varify, no?

Below is a partial list of some of the more notable people involved in the Project:

* Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official
* Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert
* Astronaut Gordon Cooper
* Astronaut Edgar Mitchell
* Monsignor Corrado Balducci (deceased)
* Dr. Carol Rosin
* Dan Willis: US Navy, Communications
* Admiral Lord Hill-Norton: Five-Star Admiral, Former Head of the British Ministry of Defense (deceased)
* Gordon Creighton: Former British Foreign Service official
* Dr. Robert Wood: McDonnell Douglas Aerospace Engineer
* Dr. Alfred Webre: Former Senior Policy Analyst, Stanford Research Institute
* Denise McKenzie: Former SAIC employee
* Colonel Philip J. Corso: US Army (deceased)
* Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.)
* Lieutenant Walter Haut: US Navy
* Dr. Hal Puthoff
* Dr. Eugene Mallove
* Lieutenant Colonel Thomas E. Bearden: US Army (ret.)
* John Callahan: FAA Head of Accidents and Investigations
* Larry Warren: Security Officer, RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge, NATO
* Major George A. Filer III: US Air Force (ret.)
* John Maynard: Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)
* Captain Robert Salas: US Air Force, SAC Launch Controller
* Don Phillips: US Air Force, Lockheed Skunkworks, design engineer/CIA contractor, worked with Kelly Johnson
* Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown: US Air Force (ret.) Office of Special Investigations, Project Grudge
* Mark McCandlish: US Air Force, conceptual artist for Rockwell X-30 and HYSTP programs
* James Kopf: US Navy/NSA Crypto Communications
* Major General Vasily Alexeyev: Russian Air Force
(wikipedia.org)

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Also government agencies are starting to reveal files:

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The first in a series of Ministry of Defence UFO files, dating back to the 1970s, have been released on The National Archives' website today, Wednesday 14 May 2008.

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article
reports (pdf 1997-2008)

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The Danish Air Force has opened its UFO archives, providing information on over 15,000 reported extraterrestrial sightings to the public.

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article (Jan 29th 2009)

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edit: I now realized, that there is another thread. Sorry, feel free to delete or close.

Old news, free energy and stuff. I have no idea if this is real, but it's been going on for 15 years which makes this seem alittle more intresting, and so many people are involved.

UFO stands for Unidentified ALIENS!

Aliens aren't real, at least not the ones that travel from planet to planet/galaxy to galaxy.

Maybe there's some other type of being out there in other planets/galaxies, but they sure aren't traveling to other galaxies.

Do you have a source for that?
Since your statements seem so final.

I have science and logical thinking that backs me up so far. :]

Fuck yea, nitsuJ.

When science has reached its zenith and logical thinking has permeated what's far out there I'll accept that such aliens don't exit. Isn't there a lot of testimony in those vids?

Free energy is bollocks, sorry.

Aliens almost definitely aren't bollocks, but I'm sceptical that any of them have anything to do with Earth, or have the capabilities either. There are some things you just can't do in the universe.

Well for me, until it's proven that there's some sort of aircraft that can reach the speed of light, or break it, and somehow has an unlimited source of fuel/energy, I don't believe aliens are traveling here from other galaxies. I don't believe UFOs are aliens at all, just UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS.

I don't believe there's technology out there anywhere that can give an unlimited source of fuel/energy to break the speed of light, and so far according to physics as far as I know, it's not possible.

I also don't believe they're traveling through wormholes, unless they can somehow create two blackholes and make them both combine with each other to make the wormhole, and I don't believe they're teleporting either. :]

There may be "aliens" out there, but I highly doubt they're flying around in aircrafts traveling at 186,000MPH or faster.

If they are, then they obviously have some unlimited source of energy and they should give it to me, I'm getting tired of my gas guzzler sitting outside. I wouldn't mind having me one of those Banshees from Halo to drive around.

It's been proven to be impossible, really. You can't go faster than light, because light always goes at the same speed, no matter how fast you travel.

You don't need infinite energy to travel an infinite distance, by the way. As soon as you have velocity, you don't need to keep applying a force, as there is no force opposing your velocity, unlike on Earth where there is air resistance, etcetera.

Thats true, given enough time you can go any where. So they do not have to go faster than the speed of light. They just need to live a really long time, have children along the way, or something similar. Maybe they put their minds into robots and can repair them self, and don't need food or water. As for energy you just use solar power or something. Even if you enter an area of space that has so little light you can't power anything, you would continue to cruise along and eventually enter a solar system or something, power comes back on and you keep on going.

Of course, highly intelligent beings could figure out all kind of things that people might not be able to even consider today. The fact is that we do not know everything in the world.

True, but what makes you believe that all aliens are highly intelligent if they exist? They could have the same IQ as a caveman.

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Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Aliens aren't real, at least not the ones that travel from planet to planet/galaxy to galaxy.

Maybe there's some other type of being out there in other planets/galaxies, but they sure aren't traveling to other galaxies.

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That sounds pretty ignorant. If not for the ice age WE would be HELL OF A LOT more advanced then we are now, maybe space age, who knows? the ice age was millions of years or something (if i am wrong correct me), you can't say we are the most advanced species in the universe JUST because we have not seen anything. I would not bet against there being a space flight type of aliens, the universe is rather big, the universe is not just our galaxy either.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Free energy is bollocks, sorry.

Aliens almost definitely aren't bollocks, but I'm sceptical that any of them have anything to do with Earth, or have the capabilities either. There are some things you just can't do in the universe.

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Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I rather keep the debate open just incase we advance and find out things that seem impossible in todays eyes.

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Originally Posted by nitsuJ

True, but what makes you believe that all aliens are highly intelligent if they exist? They could have the same IQ as a caveman.

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Who says all? of course not all aliens are of the intelligent type. We are talking about the intelligent type, though.

Edit:
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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

That sounds pretty ignorant. If not for the ice age WE would be HELL OF A LOT more advanced then we are now, maybe space age, who knows? the ice age was millions of years or something (if i am wrong correct me), you can't say we are the most advanced species in the universe JUST because we have not seen anything. I would not bet against there being a space flight type of aliens, the universe is rather big, the universe is not just our galaxy either.

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Way to draw random conclusions. I never said we're the most advanced, I said I don't believe there's any aliens traveling here from other galaxies. So far, as far as science is concerned, aliens aren't able to travel from galaxies to other galaxies. Unless they've figured out a way an aircraft to travel at the speed of light and not screw itself up, and they've found an unlimited fuel source.

I gave the possibility to there being life out there, but I highly doubt that if there is life out there they're aliens like Independence Day, and high-tech like that.

I never said the universe is only our galaxy either, I even mentioned galaxy to galaxy travel. The universe is theoretically infinite. There's a good chance that there's life out there, but I'm highly doubtful that that life is flying around on spaghetti saucers at 186,000MPH to come hang out with Earthlings, or other people from different planets, if there are any.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Who says all? of course not all aliens are of the intelligent type. We are talking about the intelligent type, though.

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How do you know there's an intelligent type? They could be creatures that look like a big, heated up, sun dried turd with the IQ of an opossum.

Most of the time when people talk about the "aliens" that "travel" to Earth, they're talking about highly intelligent aliens. If there's a creature that's found out how to build an aircraft that can travel at the speed of light from galaxy to galaxy on some ultimate fuel source, and someone figured out how to expand it's life when traveling such a far distance, I'd consider that highly intelligent.

I've never heard of any "dumb aliens," it's always "highly intelligent aliens," or something similar.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I rather keep the debate open just incase we advance and find out things that seem impossible in todays eyes.

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That's kind of what I am thinking.
I'd really like to see a more scientific and factual handling of this
subject. The debate at the national press clubs, as well as other
publications rarely appear in the mainstream media.

But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.

Therefore, again - there are specific claims being made, there is
a lot of information about this subject - i just don't really see why
there is no real, open discussion about it. All that leaves is speculation.

And we're getting nowhere.

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Originally Posted by dajo

That's kind of what I am thinking.
I'd really like to see a more scientific and factual handling of this
subject. The debate at the national press clubs, as well as other
publications rarely appear in the mainstream media.

But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.

Therefore, again - there are specific claims being made, there is
a lot of information about this subject - i just don't really see why
there is no real, open discussion about it. All that leaves is speculation.

And we're getting nowhere.

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I didn't watch the videos (I'm dial-up and don't have the patience to load videos about aliens and UFOs), but if they're talking about UFOs, UFOs are real obviously. UFOs aren't aliens, just unidentified flying objects.

I can go outside at night-time and see an object flying through the sky with lights blinking on and off, I can't tell if it's a plane or what because it's so dark, so as far as I'm concerned it's an UFO. Mind you a UFO isn't an alien, and I'm not going to come to the conclusion that there's aliens inside of the object flying around.

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Originally Posted by dajo

But I have a question to those, who think this is idiotic:
What is your explanation for what I have postet up there?
Do you just write all these people off as being insane, lieing,
desperate for attention? I don't think it really adds up, like that.

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If they're talking about actual aliens flying to earth and cruising around in their six fours, then yes they are insane, lying, and desperate for attention.

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Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Way to draw random conclusions. I never said we're the most advanced, I said I don't believe there's any aliens traveling here from other galaxies.

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The way you are talking it makes it sound like you think we are the most advanced, that's why i said that.

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So far, as far as science is concerned, aliens aren't able to travel from galaxies to other galaxies. Unless they've figured out a way an aircraft to travel at the speed of light and not screw itself up, and they've found an unlimited fuel source.

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So...just because todays science does not know it means it's impossible for it to happen? science can't advance? that's almost as bad as religion. I'm sure there is a way to travel from galaxy to galaxy, but we are not advanced technological(sp?) enough to even comprehend it.If you have played an FPS game that is like saying "he must be a cheater, i can't kill him therefore he's cheating"

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I gave the possibility to there being life out there, but I highly doubt that if there is life out there they're aliens like Independence Day, and high-tech like that.

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Again WHY? are people this arrogant? evolution happens, just as technology advancing, how can there not be space flying aliens? space is quite vast.

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I never said the universe is only our galaxy either, I even mentioned galaxy to galaxy travel.

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You made it sound quite small by how you think humans are like the creame of the crop and nothing in the universe can be compared to us intelligence wise. The universe is bigger then everyone on the planet combined can even imagine, so the possibility of a species intelligent as humans is quite possible although probably limited to some areas in space. Humans can't be the only intelligent life in this big universe.

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The universe is theoretically infinite. There's a good chance that there's life out there, but I'm highly doubtful that that life is flying around on spaghetti saucers at 186,000MPH to come hang out with Earthlings, or other people from different planets, if there are any.

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Theoretically, only because we have yet to even find an end. Also, it is not to hang out with Earthlings, it's to explore the vastness of space. it's quite vast, so there is alot to explore and find out. There can be MANY possibilities as to why they could end up here visiting. Maybe they just wanna travel, maybe relocation, maybe seek something they need to survive on their planet that might be on a different planet, the list goes on and on and on.

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How do you know there's an intelligent type? They could be creatures that look like a big, heated up, sun dried turd with the IQ of an opossum.

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How do you know there isn't? and don't say because we have not found any. We have not found any IQless aliens and you think that is more possible then any IQ aliens which is quite baffling, you really should just say there is no aliens.

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Most of the time when people talk about the "aliens" that "travel" to Earth, they're talking about highly intelligent aliens. If there's a creature that's found out how to build an aircraft that can travel at the speed of light from galaxy to galaxy on some ultimate fuel source, and someone figured out how to expand it's life when traveling such a far distance, I'd consider that highly intelligent.

I've never heard of any "dumb aliens," it's always "highly intelligent aliens," or something similar.

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Dumb aliens? aslong as they can think and be aware they can't possible be dumb. Why can't you guys just see that things are possible and not hide behind your science? Look how big the universe is...LOOK HOW BIG!!!! you can't possible sit there on your seats saying with a straight face that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That is 1 hell of an ego trip.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

The way you are talking it makes it sound like you think we are the most advanced, that's why i said that.

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As far as I know (and concerned) at the moment, we are the most advanced. I see no reason so far in believing there's some super advanced race of organisms out there, or we'd be getting contacted by them by now in some way.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

So...just because todays science does not know it means it's impossible for it to happen? science can't advance? that's almost as bad as religion. I'm sure there is a way to travel from galaxy to galaxy, but we are not advanced technological(sp?) enough to even comprehend it.If you have played an FPS game that is like saying "he must be a cheater, i can't kill him therefore he's cheating"

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It's already been proven the speed of light can't be broken, and where do you think they're going to get an energy source big enough to get an aircraft up to 186,000MPH (appox.)? How are the aliens going to live for so long for such a long trip?

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Again WHY? are people this arrogant? evolution happens, just as technology advancing, how can there not be space flying aliens? space is quite vast.

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Because I haven't seen any reason to believe in a highly intelligent life form is living out somewhere in the universe. If they're so much more intelligent and super advanced that us, why aren't they contacting us?

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

You made it sound quite small by how you think humans are like the creame of the crop and nothing in the universe can be compared to us intelligence wise. The universe is bigger then everyone on the planet combined can even imagine, so the possibility of a species intelligent as humans is quite possible although probably limited to some areas in space. Humans can't be the only intelligent life in this big universe.

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Are you ignoring half of my posts? I just told you in that post that the universe is theoretically infinite. Humans CAN be the only intelligent life in this big universe, but there's a chance they're not. I've still seen no reason to believe something super advanced and super intelligent is out there, besides us. Maybe something equivalent to us, or a little bit more primitive.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Theoretically, only because we have yet to even find an end. Also, it is not to hang out with Earthlings, it's to explore the vastness of space. it's quite vast, so there is alot to explore and find out. There can be MANY possibilities as to why they could end up here visiting. Maybe they just wanna travel, maybe relocation, maybe seek something they need to survive on their planet that might be on a different planet, the list goes on and on and on.

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Well, since you think aliens are probably visiting us, can you tell me why they're not coming into contact with us, or what energy source they're using to fuel their aircrafts, or how they've made their aircraft strong enough to resist tearing apart when going at lightspeed.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

How do you know there isn't? and don't say because we have not found any. We have not found any IQless aliens and you think that is more possible then any IQ aliens which is quite baffling, you really should just say there is no aliens.

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I've never said there isn't, I just said I highly doubt there is. There's a difference in doubting and knowing LucidFlanders. We've not found any aliens at all yet, so as far as I'm concerned there are none. I do say there's no aliens (one's traveling from galaxy to galaxy). Maybe there's life out there somewhere, but they're not coming to Earth, or if they are no one has seen one, and they must be super sneaky.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Dumb aliens? aslong as they can think and be aware they can't possible be dumb. Why can't you guys just see that things are possible and not hide behind your science? Look how big the universe is...LOOK HOW BIG!!!! you can't possible sit there on your seats saying with a straight face that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. That is 1 hell of an ego trip.

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Once again, I'm not sitting here saying we're the only intelligent life in the entire universe, so please stop ignoring over half of what I say. As far as we know so far we are the only intelligent life form out here, there's a possibility that there is another, but there's no reason to believe there's an entire race of creatures out there with an IQ of 999,999,999,999... or something similar.

Again I ask you, if there's a group of aliens out there that's so super advanced and thousands, maybe millions, or billions of years more advanced that us, why aren't they coming into contact with us? I mean it looks like to me if something is able to create a ship that can travel at the speed of light, or somehow learned how to create two black holes from their galaxy and one in ours and combine the two to make a wormhole for travel it seems to me they'd be advanced enough to contact us.

I see no reason in believing there's some Einstein aliens out there, maybe there's some sort of life, but I don't believe there's any life out there way more advanced than us.

W...O...W... no need to reply, you're already pimped human life waaay up.:roll: You're so closed minded there is no point trying to disect what you said.

Of course I'm close minded. If something is so intelligent like you say, they should be contacting us (Wouldn't you?). I see no reason in believing in some super advanced life form out there. There's a good chance there's life out there, but I'm doubtful that it's super intelligent. It may be more intelligent than we are, but I doubt they're thousands, millions, or billions more technologically advanced than us.

If that's putting the human race on a pedestal, then so be it.

wtf?

You are argueing like you know everything - and you haven't even watched or reviewed any of the evidence and have actually no idea, what anybody who did, is talking about.

This ist just pointless.
lol

So you're telling me those videos show evidence that aliens are real..?

Or are they trying to prove that UFOs are real?

If it's the latter, I don't care. I already know UFOs are real.

I've never seen any evidence for aliens though.

UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object.

Might just as well be a new type of aeroplane. :\

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Originally Posted by dajo

wtf?

You are argueing like you know everything - and you haven't even watched or reviewed any of the evidence and have actually no idea, what anybody who did, is talking about.

This ist just pointless.
lol

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Yeah pretty annoying, ain't it?

Open mindedness to new ideas is great. Hanging on to old ideas which have been disproven is not.

Science is a methodology of inherent openmindedness, but if you have an idea we simply ask that you give evidence for it.

This is basic rational thought.

Most people realise that believing something somebody says is true just because they think so without any justification is a stupid idea - at age 8 or so. Get with it guys.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Open mindedness to new ideas is great. Hanging on to old ideas which have been disproven is not.

Science is a methodology of inherent openmindedness, but if you have an idea we simply ask that you give evidence for it.

This is basic rational thought.

Most people realise that believing something somebody says is true just because they think so without any justification is a stupid idea - at age 8 or so. Get with it guys.

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Like i said, i am keeping the debate open. Do i believe it? it as in free energy which i am guessing you are talking about. Not really..it sounds too good to be true, but i will not say no and throw a 100% hell no ban hammer on it. I don't really understand free energy or how it would work except the obvious it will fuel everything. I can't defend something i do not understand, but i believe that things that are proven wrong in todays eyes, down the road can be possible. I just CAN'T see things that are impossible in todays eyes impossible in tomorrows eyes for tomorrow has not come around. Perhaps there are a few steps we are missing in understanding something. I dunno...i just can't disagree 100%.

When did science ever prove free energy wrong?

All science has done is observed that energy is never created in any circumstance, so there is no reason to think that free energy should be possible.

There's not really any reason to despair though, because technologies such as nuclear fusion could well be possible in a few years, potentially providing an essentially unlimited energy source; harnessing the energy that already exists inside atomic nuclei.

I wasn't even going as far as free energy.

Lets stick with the basics -
I first only want a 'yes or no' on the extraterrestrial life thing.

I wonder - What kind of evidence would be necessary for
a convinced skeptic to believe it, if it were true?

We don't have enough evidence to say for sure. We do know, however, that almost as soon as water condensed on Earth, life began; which shows that it may be a likehood with the correct conditions. We also know that there at least 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, which basically means that even if the probability of life starting was relatively small (which, as I just mentioned, it isn't anyway), the probability of there being lots of life in the universe would still basically be 1.

The strongest form of evidence would be if we actually found some life. There are a few places in the solar system where it might exist.

Well, the people at the press conference are claiming,
to have loads and loads of evidence. I can't really varify
it from where I am - but it should be somehow possible.
(They show pictures, they have thousands of testimonies,
many many documents and they are of high rank, etc)

There is stuff going on, but it just doesn't hit the mainstream.
So you'd have to keep yourself up to date.

I guess the only way, to really check the facts, or dismiss
them, is, if there is an awareness of the subject. It should
be accepted to be scientifically varified - lay open all the files.
But this will not work, without public acknowledgment, that
these questions are real and should be dealt with in an
according way.

Because: When we know and it is in fact true -
we can start asking different questions. And it wouldn't
matter anymore, if we think of it as theoretically possible or not.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/welcome.asp
(You can also find a lot of official government files)

Plus:
Regardless of the unidentified objects beeing alien or human -
I'd still kind of like to know, what they were.

I am very sure, that there is a lot of bullshit out there,
a very high percentage of the pictures are very likely fake.
And I am very aware of how easy it is, to fake them.
But all it takes is one person, out of the million, to not lie.

Nonetheless - I'm not trying to convince anyone, that wasn't
the purpose, of why I created the thread (Also since I try to
stay 'without opinion'.) But I do think it is a pretty exciting
topic to think about.

Since when do half-baked testimonies, low quality video of flying objects, and government files count as evidence of anything?

I guess we're talking about two different things then..

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Originally Posted by dajo

I guess we're talking about two different things then..

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If you mean that there's evidence of UFOs, then I agree. BUT, and I cannot stress this enough, the big leap is NOT going from "no UFOs" to "there are UFOs". The big leap that requires very strong evidence is going from UFOs to alien spacecraft. Most UFO people just sort of gloss over the most important bit. I have never, in my life, seen a single shred of convincing evidence for UFOs being unambiguously non-human.

Ok, good. I can get on board with that.

But I think it's also wrong to fall into
the other extreme and to dismiss everything.

But still:
What would count as valid evidence?

- Pictures and Videos can easily manipulated.
- People lie.
- If they are not involved with the government or
have an official function, they are crazy and not
believable.
- If they are people of the government
and of high rank - it's a conspiracy.
- On the one hand, people want the government and
the CIA to release the files, on the other they can't be
trusted.

It's a little frustrating.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

I have never, in my life, seen a single shred of convincing evidence for UFOs being unambiguously non-human.

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Some indicate it, though.
For example that one guy, describing how they look like.

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Originally Posted by dajo

- Pictures and Videos can easily manipulated.

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True. And guess what, in no mainstream field of science, except perhaps zoology, are videos ever used as evidence. And even in zoology, a new species isn't confirmed until it is captured and eventually dissected.

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Originally Posted by dajo

- People lie.

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And in this case they have motive to lie.

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Originally Posted by dajo

- If they are not involved with the government or
have an official function, they are crazy and not
believable.
- If they are people of the government
and of high rank - it's a conspiracy.
- On the one hand, people want the government and
the CIA to release the files, on the other they can't be
trusted.

It's a little frustrating.

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That's why real scientists don't use anecdotal evidence. This isn't a conspiracy to hide the "truth", it's simply accepting the fact that someone saying something did or didn't happen means nothing. But that doesn't mean the likelihood of there being aliens on Earth is somehow 50/50 or something. Expecting EVIDENCE for unreasonable claims is not closedmindedness.

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Originally Posted by dajo

Some indicate it, though.
For example that one guy, describing how they look like.

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Do you realize how silly this sounds? Honestly.

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Originally Posted by Xei

We don't have enough evidence to say for sure. We do know, however, that almost as soon as water condensed on Earth, life began; which shows that it may be a likehood with the correct conditions. We also know that there at least 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, which basically means that even if the probability of life starting was relatively small (which, as I just mentioned, it isn't anyway), the probability of there being lots of life in the universe would still basically be 1.

The strongest form of evidence would be if we actually found some life. There are a few places in the solar system where it might exist.

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Yes, that's why i also said limited life in one of my posts. This ain't stargate SG1 or Atlantis where life is BOOMING in every galaxy, AND all humans. Hell there are probably just a few planets that can support us breathing it's air. But what i find intresting, out of all the planets out there we have seen on hubble, Earth while it's extremly small, looks like the most beautiful planet from space then the rest. I guess because it's rich on life, or just a big cosmos coincidence. Of course if there is life on other planets there is a high probability that we wont be able to visit without wearing suits with air. I would love if there was another planet that looked like Earth in space, can support our air via trees or another means. It would be pretty cool to fly down in your shaceship and explore the life, or no life on the planet.

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Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Aliens aren't real, at least not the ones that travel from planet to planet/galaxy to galaxy.

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If you're at all familiar with how gravity effects the way objects travel through space, the entire possibility of interstellar space travel (let alone intergalactic) opens up to us. You don't actually have to travel faster than the speed of light in order to reach a distant star (300 LY away, for example) in a timely manner (A few days travel, give or take). It has to do with the manipulation of an artificial gravitational field that would be generated by the spacecraft so that it can alter the amount of distance it travels in any given amount of time while still moving at the same speed. Does that make sense?

Gravitation to be used as an aid for transportation in space travel is another thread in itself, so I wont go nuts here. I'm just trying to say that your assumption is unfounded.

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Originally Posted by invader_tech

If you're at all familiar with how gravity effects the way objects travel through space, the entire possibility of interstellar space travel (let alone intergalactic) opens up to us. You don't actually have to travel faster than the speed of light in order to reach a distant star (300 LY away, for example) in a timely manner (A few days travel, give or take). It has to do with the manipulation of an artificial gravitational field that would be generated by the spacecraft so that it can alter the amount of distance it travels in any given amount of time while still moving at the same speed. Does that make sense?

Gravitation to be used as an aid for transportation in space travel is another thread in itself, so I wont go nuts here. I'm just trying to say that your assumption is unfounded.

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Well, even special relativity allows for travel times much shorter than the what the stationary observer would expect, but I don't think manipulating gravity would alleviate the problem of stationary observers seeing much longer travel times, no matter how short the journey is for the occupants. As far as I know, the only metric that has been proposed that's capable of solving that problem is the wormhole, but that requires negative mass.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

But that doesn't mean the likelihood of there being aliens on Earth is somehow 50/50 or something. Expecting EVIDENCE for unreasonable claims is not closedmindedness.

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It's not really about statistics, though. It's either yes or no on
the question, if we (as human) know of extraterrestial life or not.

(And by that I mean, if there are people that know,
then it means, that 'we' know)

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

And guess what, in no mainstream field of science, except perhaps zoology, are videos ever used as evidence.

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Ah, in this case I meant, what would be enough evidence for 'you' to believe it.

Just IF it was true - would there be any way, to change your mind? How?
At what point would you say, 'I was wrong, I'm convinced'?

Strictly hypothetically speaking of course.
...but do you see the point I was trying to make?

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Do you realize how silly this sounds? Honestly.

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Yes :lol:
And I really had to laugh right now.

But - silly is just not very scientific. These
people are serious about their claims, are
in a position that should justify them to be
taken seriously - and therefore should
be checked, regardless of the sillyness. :D

When they have been disproven, than we
shall laugh and point fingers.

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Originally Posted by dajo

It's not really about statistics, though. It's either yes or no on
the question, if we (as human) know of extraterrestial life or not.

(And by that I mean, if there are people that know,
then it means, that 'we' know)

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I'm sure there are lots of people that "know" there are aliens among us. There are lots of people that "know" there are giant purple bunny rabbits among us. There are lots of people that "know" pigs can fly. "Knowing" something does not mean it's true.

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Originally Posted by dajo

Ah, in this case I meant, what would be enough evidence for 'you' to believe it.

Just IF it was true - would there be any way, to change your mind? How?
At what point would you say, 'I was wrong, I'm convinced'?

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How could I be wrong? I haven't made a definitive statement, unlike some people. All I have said is that no one has given me any evidence for the outrageous claims.

What would I need to see? An alien ship, or a piece of a ship, that demonstrates a level of technology humans don't have. This would require electron microscopy to verify. Anything less could be faked. I could also be convinced by an alien itself, but again, the analysis would have to be extremely detailed to rule out a fake. I would need to see cell samples, internal organs, DNA (if applicable), etc.

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Originally Posted by dajo

But - silly is just not very scientific. These
people are serious about their claims, are
in a position that should justify them to be
taken seriously - and therefore should
be checked, regardless of the sillyness. :D

When they have been disproven, than we
shall laugh and point fingers.

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That's just the thing. You can't disprove them. Their claims are unfalsifiable. Where I come from, that's when your bullshit detector is supposed to start lighting up.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

I'm sure there are lots of people that "know" there are aliens among us. There are lots of people that "know" there are giant purple bunny rabbits among us. There are lots of people that "know" pigs can fly. "Knowing" something does not mean it's true.

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:lol:
That's not what I meant.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

How could I be wrong? I haven't made a definitive statement, unlike some people. All I have said is that no one has given me any evidence for the outrageous claims.

What would I need to see? An alien ship, or a piece of a ship, that demonstrates a level of technology humans don't have. This would require electron microscopy to verify. Anything less could be faked. I could also be convinced by an alien itself, but again, the analysis would have to be extremely detailed to rule out a fake. I would need to see cell samples, internal organs, DNA (if applicable), etc.

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I wasn't saying you did a definite claim.

My point merely was: It would be really difficult to prove the
existence of aliens to a confident skeptic. I'm not saying the skepticism
is not justified. Just saying this should also be taken into consideration.

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That's just the thing. You can't disprove them. Their claims are unfalsifiable. Where I come from, that's when your bullshit detector is supposed to start lighting up.

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I don't think they are unfalsifiable. Not at all!
It's just a mess and now noone can tell what is true and what's not.

All I'm saying in this debate is, clean up the mess
and come up with a few reasonable explanations.
(not you 'you' of course)

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Originally Posted by dajo

I don't think they are unfalsifiable. Not at all!
It's just a mess and now noone can tell what is true and what's not.
)

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Doesn't matter what you think. The claims are unfalsifiable. Sorry, that's just a fact. No matter how many times you show them that this UFO is a plane, or that UFO is a balloon, they can always say, "ah, but we just haven't found a real one yet". Unfalsifiable.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

As far as I know, the only metric that has been proposed that's capable of solving that problem is the wormhole, but that requires negative mass.

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So far as we know, certainly. Our solar system is still considered relatively young though, which means the other intelligent civilizations out there may very well have had millions of extra years to develope and discover otherwise incomprehensible means of traveling through the known universe.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

Doesn't matter what you think. The claims are unfalsifiable. Sorry, that's just a fact. No matter how many times you show them that this UFO is a plane, or that UFO is a balloon, they can always say, "ah, but we just haven't found a real one yet". Unfalsifiable.

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C'mon. You didn't watch any of that either, did you?

There are UFO claims that are unfalsifiable. But not all of them are.
And those are the ones, that I'd want to have checked out.

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Originally Posted by dajo

C'mon. You didn't watch any of that either, did you?

There are UFO claims that are unfalsifiable. But not all of them are.
And those are the ones, that I'd want to have checked out.

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You don't understand what I'm saying. Even if the "falsifiable" claims are proven wrong, there are still UNFALSIFIABLE claims to fall back to.

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

You don't understand what I'm saying. Even if the "falsifiable" claims are proven wrong, there are still UNFALSIFIABLE claims to fall back to.

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Ok.

But I'm still not talking about that.

There will always be people who will believe, regardless of the evidence.
That's just not a justification to dismiss everything.

My point is: Now there seem to be claims that are falsifiable, investigate them in a fair dealing manner. But - I think it will happen eventually, since these conferences (and all that) aren't really very 'secret'. Just a slow-going process.

let's imagine that thousands of spaceships are witnessed simultaneously by millions entering earth's orbit, recorded and documented by the masses - leaving no question at all that spaceships by the dozens has just entered earth

and let's imagine that alien like beings are witnessed by the masses exiting the spaceship

as quickly as they come, they leave

is this absolute evidence that we were visited by space beings?

we have no physical evidence, no dna, no space ship to touch with our bare hands. on top of that, before this event a conspiracy spreads throughout the internet. warning people of an advanced technology that can create large scale holographic illusions. so realistic and grand, you can make Jesus appear in the clouds for the world to see

or

let's say before or after this event, a large number of military and government personal, from various nations testify that we human beings have - spaceships. not the kind you see in NASA, but ones that defy your classroom physics. and then, a smaller number of these military and government personal warn us of an 'illuminati', out to create the largest hoax mankind has ever seen, alien invasion.

to use fear of aliens to control us and establish a new world order.

this hoax includes the classic UFO's defying our conventional ideas of space travel, and bioengineered beasts, hybrids of earth based animals, to pose as frightening aliens

or worse

that these thousands of UFO's seen entering earth's orbit are limited to only one continent on earth - South America. And all South America nations witness - First Contact! But you won't find first contact witnessed by millions in the US newspapers, or the US news. Only on the internet. When questioned, US reporters make south americans seem to uneducated to tell us if first contact actually happened. And pass it off as some sort of 'mass hysteria'.

These three things sound crazy? There ALREADY IS a large group of people ready to deny first contact as some sort of hoax. And there are thousands of americans that will never believe we have been visited, unless America was visited.

what ever the case, the human mind is capable of accepting and denying anything. no science can tell you what is, and what isn't. in the end, you decide yourself what truth is absolute. We already have both extremes on earth, from those who say without a doubt we have been visited by aliens since mankind has existed. To the next extreme, aliens never and never will exist.

until I have my own experience with UFOs and aliens, I will have faith in mankind. If thousands of people are saying they have a direct experience with UFOs and aliens, I'll listen.

For what it is worth, i actually DID watch the whole video. Bored as hell, so i am like "why not..." Took me about 4 days.

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Originally Posted by juroara

that these thousands of UFO's seen entering earth's orbit are limited to only one continent on earth - South America. And all South America nations witness - First Contact! But you won't find first contact witnessed by millions in the US newspapers, or the US news. Only on the internet. When questioned, US reporters make south americans seem to uneducated to tell us if first contact actually happened. And pass it off as some sort of 'mass hysteria'.

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Actually, the US would have reporters capturing this. Sources would be phoning in, word will travel fast to US, they will fly over as quickly as possible, assuming they are not already there in the first place. It's not like the aliens will enter orbit, then fly off. They may need to refuel their craft which will take a while, then they will be reporting things from outside their ship to their commanders or whoever is in charge unless they are free and answer to nobody, but then they would not need all those ships in the first place. I am also sure that they will be seen far before they even reach Earth, aswell as a trajectory and what time they will land at their current speed they are moving at now.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

It's not like the aliens will enter orbit, then fly off. They may need to refuel their craft which will take a while, then they will be reporting things from outside their ship to their commanders or whoever is in charge unless they are free and answer to nobody, but then they would not need all those ships in the first place. I am also sure that they will be seen far before they even reach Earth, aswell as a trajectory and what time they will land at their current speed they are moving at now.

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Why such low expectations for a super-advanced civilization?

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Originally Posted by invader_tech

Why such low expectations for a super-advanced civilization?

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They came because they were curious what Earth looked like, so why would they just up and leave after a quick glance?