Thread: Obama is president, but the war in Iraq continues.

Takes some time to clear up all the bull Bush has created.

Rome wasn't built in a day, Iraq wasn't stable in a night.

I'll tell him to hurry his ass up.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Takes some time to clear up all the bull Bush has created.

Rome wasn't built in a day, Iraq wasn't stable in a night.

I'll tell him to hurry his ass up.

So, at this moment, the war is necessary?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So, at this moment, the war is necessary?

Necessary? No. But I'm sure leaving today is not an option.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Necessary? No. But I'm sure leaving today is not an option.

Why is it not an option?

well, i would think that it would take while to try to get our troops out of there. not mentioning the cost.

Originally Posted by aorozco

well, i would think that it would take while to try to get our troops out of there. not mentioning the cost.

They could be home in a matter of days. Even if not, Obama could order that they start working on the move immediately. He could have ordered it right after he was sworn in.

So, in other words, in the minds of left-socialists, the troops could leave on a dime when Bush was in, but now they "can't" just leave when Obama is in. How convenient.

very true.

i can see why that would be a nuisance...

well the only thing i can really say is that it's easier to drop a glass of milk, and make a mess, than it is to try to clean it up.

i am not defending mr.bama cuz personally i would never had voted for him, i just think that we do have to give it time.
unfortunately.

He is right, he could have them out tomorrow if he wanted. Obama shouted change all through his campaign but we all know it was bullshit. Same status quo with a new face.

exactly why i wouldn't have voted for him.people just get so used to being spoon-fed all this bullshit that they can't seem to think for themselves. i am not atttacking those who voted for obama. i am simply ssaying that alot of the people i know voted for obama because he's a young(ish) attractive, black male, and it sickens me how they couldn't even talk on one of the current issues.

I promise you if he was Ron Paul we would have already shipped everyone out on C-130's and burned all the permanent bases to the ground.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
(Oops, I meant even worse, if that's possible.)

heh, I dont think they would be out already. but I do have a feeling he would have gotten done faster and safer.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Why is it not an option?

Because they'd rip each other apart, I'm sure that'd be the excuse.

I wouldn't care though, death to anyone that isn't American or a big-time ally of the U.S.A.

^That attitude is part of the reason why we are in a recession right now.

Yeah, I'm the leading cause of the recession. Smarty pants.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

At what point should people run out of patience and start protesting again?

What will you say about Obama if the war is still going in two years?

Personally, I don't think anyone who's the least bit aware of what's going on over there expected him to have our military throw down their guns, and walk off the battlefield (except right-wing zealots, who probably much less thought he would than just wanted to make it look like that's what he was proposing all along), at a moment's notice. He's always talked about a 'responsible pullout,' while the other side has talked about being there "for as long as we need to," which is about as arbitrary as saying "we'll leave when I say we leave" - even throwing the "100 years if need be" rhetoric out there.

I may not have been one that was with Obama from the beginning, but I do know that he's talked for quite some time about a phased pull out, and his having been in office for less than a month should leave no one with expectations that half our military should be on their way home at this point. I'm not going to be someone marking my calendar every single day that Obama hasn't fulfilled what he's allegedly set out to do. I understand that it will take time. I'm also not saying, in any way, that it's somehow clear that he's going to deliver on his promises, but I think it's way too early to be chopping the man's head off for not ending our occupation on a dime.

Just my two cents, though.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

At what point should people run out of patience and start protesting again?

What will you say about Obama if the war is still going in two years?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Rome wasn't built in a day.

But this seems a little inconsistent to me. When Bush was in, the people were (rightly so) shouting in the streets about how the war was unjust and genocidal and all that. So now, what, it's "OK"? You would think that if there's an unjust war going on, it should end immediately. That's certainly what left-socialists seemed to be shouting for prior to November, 2008. But now, killing innocent Iraqis and risking the lives of thousands of Americans is ok as long as it ends some time in the next 4 years or so? Umm...

Originally Posted by drewmandan

But this seems a little inconsistent to me. When Bush was in, the people were (rightly so) shouting in the streets about how the war was unjust and genocidal and all that. So now, what, it's "OK"? You would think that if there's an unjust war going on, it should end immediately. That's certainly what left-socialists seemed to be shouting for prior to November, 2008. But now, killing innocent Iraqis and risking the lives of thousands of Americans is ok as long as it ends some time in the next 4 years or so? Umm...

"We have to be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in" - Barack Obama

I'm not sure if you all listened to Obama's press conferences but he's said the above quote a number of times. This war is a bigger mess than most of us realize. It would take me two seconds to get a glass of water and turn it right side up, spilling the contents of the glass all over the floor. It would, however...take me possibly 1 minute or so to clean it all up. Same context applies here. Obama simply can't withdraw every single man and woman from over there overnight. Bush shat all over Iraq, and the American people handed Obama the broom, mop, dust pan, and soap and water bucket. Give the man time. By that I mean...more than one month to fulfill all of his campaign promises.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So, in other words, in the minds of left-socialists, the troops could leave on a dime when Bush was in, but now they "can't" just leave when Obama is in. How convenient.

I didn't think we could leave right away, but Bush got us in this war and he was doing a lousy job of getting it closer to a close for many many years..

I'm unsure who ever thought we could just pull out overnight after the mess we created, I'm sure someone did... but.

I expect Obama to work towards pulling out of Iraq, he can't work miracles. The sooner the better.



P.S. Just because a few people thought we could just walk out of Iraq and leave it to implode doesn't mean all left sided thinkers thought such. All we know was Bush created it and didn't seem to care if it ended any time soon, ignoring the problems in Iraq for years. Enter the Obama.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

But this seems a little inconsistent to me. When Bush was in, the people were (rightly so) shouting in the streets about how the war was unjust and genocidal and all that. So now, what, it's "OK"? You would think that if there's an unjust war going on, it should end immediately. That's certainly what left-socialists seemed to be shouting for prior to November, 2008. But now, killing innocent Iraqis and risking the lives of thousands of Americans is ok as long as it ends some time in the next 4 years or so? Umm...

I believe any intelligent American that is against the war wants to see a beginning of the end for the war. What you're saying is a bit of a straw-man, for a large number of anti-war Americans. Take myself for example. I still, to this day, believe the war is unjust. I believe it never should have been started. I believe that some of the goals the war was (allegedly) meant to accomplish should be reached, but not in the way it has been gone about. I also believe that an order for Americans to immediately lay down their arms and walk away is completely unrealistic, given the situation we have over there.

So, yeah, as opposed to the Bush Admins policy of "stay the course until God-knows-when," I will be happy to see a process (even a sluggish one) of getting our troops out of the fight in a way that won't let the instability that Bush helped create in the region completely collapse upon itself and spiral into an even worse situation. This is something that Obama and our military will have to balance out, and I wish them luck with it.

I have read all of the posts, and I will address a lot of you by addressing this...

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I believe any intelligent American that is against the war wants to see a beginning of the end for the war.

There has not even been a beginning, not even the slightest troop reduction. What specifically is Obama waiting for to begin the end of this war that had so many dissenters going off so passionately for so long? What is the event that has to happen?

What do we need to be cautious about, in your opinion?

A lot of what has been said in here is reminiscient of what the war supporters have been saying for so long. I totally agree that we can't just suddenly pull the troops out of Iraq. I have been saying that this whole time. What confuses me is why you agree with me now. What I think we need to wait for is the self-sufficiency of the new government. When they are advanced, organized, and powerful enough to no longer need us, it will be time for us to go. They are not quite there yet. What I don't understand is... what do you war dissenters and Barack Obama think we need to wait for, exactly?

Also, at what point do you draw the line? When do you start accusing Obama of being an occupier and an agitator of the terrorist nest? When, in theory, do you get pissed at Obama for keeping the troops in Iraq? How many more years do you want the war to continue?

I really don't feel like quoting what UM just said, but I will copy and paste one of his sentences:

There has not even been a beginning, not even the slightest troop reduction.

In reply to that sentence-- aren't they sending like 30,000 (YES, THAT'S RIGHT, THIRTY THOUSAND) troops to either Iraq or Afghanistan? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

This war isn't going to end this year, I won't be surprised if it doesn't end for the next 5 if not more. Although I wish it would. Leave Iraq to themselves, if they want to kill each other let them have at it. There's more important things than protecting a country from ITSELF. If they'd get the troops out from Iraq, and possibly Afghanistan we'd be saving a SHIT LOAD of money. There's been so much money wasted on this war. We really don't have the money to be spending on the dumb war anymore.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

There has not even been a beginning, not even the slightest troop reduction. What specifically is Obama waiting for to begin the end of this war that had so many dissenters going off so passionately for so long?

What is the event that has to happen?

I am not a military strategist, so I'm not sure exactly how you expect me to answer this question. I do not know how long it takes to plan a phased withdrawal, trying to take into account the most immediate reactions in the region if we just suddenly disappeared. It's been a month. At this point, whatever date I assumed would be right for whatever stage of withdrawal would be completely arbitrary, uneducated, and pointless. What I want to know is that it is something being worked on. As per his word, that's something that I'm giving him benefit of the doubt on, and I'm willing to show a little more patience to someone who has expressed repeatedly that one of his main goals is a prompt, but responsible, pull-out than to someone who has been repeatedly caught lying to the American people, and has used nothing but cowboy rhetoric when justifying the atrocity that is the Iraq War.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What do we need to be cautious about, in your opinion?

A lot of what you have said in the past - much of which I have not disagreed with you on. I'm very well aware of the possibility of the region spiraling into chaos. I'm also very well aware of the possibility of continued, deadly anti-U.S. sentiment if we stay, fighting this war. There is a lot at stake, and the situation is very complex. You are selling myself, and a lot of anti-Iraq-War perspectives short if you think our opinions are based on ignorance of those ideas.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have been saying that this whole time. What confuses me is why you agree with me now.

On that, I have never disagreed with you. What we disagree on is, while not being able to pull out now, immediately, should we work on a way to get out as carefully and responsibly as possible, or should we just keep plowing ahead, fighting this war in Iraq for the next few hundred years if "victory" has not yet been met.

Originally Posted by UM

what do you war dissenters and Barack Obama think we need to wait for, exactly?

Again, I don't pretend to be a strategist. I don't know exactly what conditions need to be met, and it's not my place to weigh the lives that will be lost if we continue this campaign against the lives that may be lost if we leave the region to its own devices. What I want to know is that the people who are educated enough to make those decisions (none of which are on this forum) are working on it, and we aren't just going to continue justifying a bloody war, which shouldn't have been waged the way it was, by just saying "oh well. Too late to stop now. ONWARD!!!! "

Originally Posted by UM

Also, at what point do you draw the line? When do you start accusing Obama of being an occupier and an agitator of the terrorist nest? When, in theory, do you get pissed at Obama for keeping the troops in Iraq? How many more years do you want the war to continue?

As of now, I don't have a "point where I draw the line." I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get me to say, but I'm just being realistic. I have never once set a time table for anyone, during this war. It's not my job. As time goes on, if I see absolutely no work being done that shows Obama is living up to his promise that he is working on a phase out, my patience will begin wearing thing. That is how this works. I'm not marking any calendars, and I'm not letting my anti-(this)war sentiment dupe me into thinking I know how long a phase-out would take, given the circumstances. What I want to know, and am willing to hold out a bit longer for, is affirmation that it is being worked on. As of now, it's not something I believe that a month in office is enough time for a responsible person to even show signs of.

But to answer your final question: I want the war to be over today, but I believe it is completely unrealistic, and pointless in this context.