http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE...eature=channel
Stumbled across this lecture accidentally and must say I really enjoyed it. Thoughts?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE...eature=channel
Stumbled across this lecture accidentally and must say I really enjoyed it. Thoughts?
I don have time to watch the video, I have to go to work, but I think yes, especially little kids. My mom works as a teacher assistant and one story she told me is that one of the special kids drew a picture of the school, the teacher made her draw another picture because she put the door on the wrong side of the school 0,o my sister remembers this one time when they were drawing pictures of what they were going to do for the summer and she drew a picture of our family jumping into the pool and the teacher said it was stupid because all our clothes were on. I remember on time I was reading an Ispy book and I was trying to find an M but I couldn't, so I turned the book upsidedown and started looking for a W, my teacher got mad at me (she though I was special).
I actually stumbled across that exact same lecture some time ago.
I have to say that schools do kill creativity. It's because of the cookie-cutter society we all live in. It simply doesn't accommodate for people who think differently or have different needs.
I see myself as an example of how society antagonizes creative people/different thinkers. I feel particularly touched by this video because when I was young they wanted to put me medication for ADHD or ADD or something of the sort. I applaud my mother for making the decision not to put me on those drugs. Throughout my life I've always been branded as 'different' by my peers, teachers and even my entire family in a positive or negative context. For quite some time this fact left me feeling completely alienated from my fellow human because I never understood why.
When somebody stole my awesome sculpture I made in art class, one of the kids told me that I could just make another one. I wanted to slap him.
I remember seeing that a while back but I didn't remember much about it, except that it must be good because I favorited it, so I just watched it again. First off, very funny speaker. The one point that really struck me was the story towards the end about the girl who was a dancer. Today kids are thrown on so many drugs just because they can't sit still to learn.
I am considered one of the "smart kids" at school because I get good grades, however there are people who do much worse in school that I consider of greater intelligence than me. People who can write music better than me, people who can take things apart and fix them then rebuild them in ways I wouldn't even consider. There is a girl at school who is a typical blonde who is often way off the mark with answers and ideas but they are so unique that I would pick her for a brainstorming team way before I'd pick most of the other "smart kids".
One thing that I also thought of is a thread that i saw at the Ultimate Guitar forums a few days ago. It was a long thread about whether knowing music theory stifles creativity in song writing. This isn't quite exactly the same as what the video was discussing but it can be approached from a similar perspective. Of course knowing music theory allows a musician to more easily express the ideas in his head because he knows how that sound in his head is represented.
The problem is when a musician relies too much on making things musically correct. This could be compared to how schools are teaching, basically that in order to succeed you need to be good at this and that and do them correctly, while wasting your time on other things isn't as productive.
All of this can come down to being freethinking to break from the system. The problem here is that by the time someone is old enough to realize that the system is corrupt they are probably already many years into their schooling.
I would say another problem is the exposure that kids get to things such as music and art at a young age in school is often negative. In elementary school in art class you build ugly houses out of construction paper and in music class you sing silly songs in high pitched voices. Then you go to middle school and are forced to try to draw using exact skills and produce art that is attractive and "correct" while in music you are forced to learn the names and works of people have been long dead, as well as other confusing ideas that will be easily forgotten. In my school district art and musical classes are electives in high school so most students don't take them because of the negative prior experiences. Students feel as if they don't have the skill to succeed in art or music because they didn't get an earlier start and did poorly in middle school. Of course this is far from the truth and it is very easy to become proficient in art or music in just a few years if you start during high school. Another part of it is that the mind has developed farther which makes art and music easier.
Do schools kill creativity? Yes but only for students who dn't recognize their own potential. Of course this is most students because schools don't try to help students succeed. Of course there are some amazing teachers out there who have good influences but I would dare to say that most teachers don't do a very good job of this. I'm a senior in high school right now and in a class we will spend a week or two getting notes on the current chapter and then we will take a test on it. I don't particularly focus on learning the stuff as we take notes on it in class so I end up basically memorizing the whole chapter the night before the test. That basically means that I could have done that much sooner. I wish that teachers would just give us the notes of exactly we need to learn and then help us apply the concepts better. Unfortunately it seems to be very true that "those who can, do. Those who can't, teach".
I feel that most time in school is wasted time because of the many hours spent at school each day I would say that on a good day there is only maybe 2-3 hours at most of actual well spent learning time, and thats being generous.
Schooling systems are in desperate need of reformation. It is hard to be successful in life when schools don't teach how life really is. Fortunately I believe that students can themselves work hard and learn and do what is actually important and relevent to their interests in order to succeed how they wish.
Yes.
All creative activities we're given in my school are under a time limit. I(and many others) just can't be as creative as I want when I'm given a deadline!
The part of the vid that affected me the most was when he said that people discourage kids from art, music, etc saying things like, "oh it's not like you'll ever be a musician..." That's definitely happened to most of us, hasn't it! :?
I remember in high school we had many choices in terms of art and music classes, but we could only fit one (or two tops) into our schedules.
"those who can, do. Those who can't, teach".
Yikes, that's a really pessimistic quote, and I'm gonna have to disagree with it. Although to be fair I'm thinking of my college professors, not high school teachers, when I say that.
I like the challenge of it all.
When given uncreative boring tasks, making something wonderful and beautiful and different of it, whilst remaining within the rules.
its quite creative.
Nothing has sparked my creativity like the boredom and stupidity of most classes in school. I drew lots of stuff, composed melodies and wrote nonsensical texts.
In university, I barely get to draw at all because I'm actually interested in the subject.
So if anything, universities stifle creativity.
The only creative task I have ever undertaken in accordance with school was the creation of a modern theatre-adaption of Othello.
Though I still think schools kill creativity, I also agree w/ this comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serkat
But good students don't draw pictures in class. Good students listen to whatever the teacher tells them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higurashi
The best students draw pictures in class but hide them whenever the teacher is looking and still manage to learn the course material.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
Like in many situations regarding the development of children, I think parents are really to blame (or praise) when it comes to how much a child's creativity is expressed. Our society is, for the most part, standardized; and so school's are standardized to bring children 'into the fold'. It is a parent's job to encourage their children to deviate from the norm in positive ways.
Too many parents delegate the job of parenting to the schools, and believe that teacher's have more authority on what is good for their children than they do. In the examples that justme gave with the pictures, even if a teacher tells the child that their pictures aren't good enough, its up to a parent to undermine the teacher to their child and show encouragement in what they do. It is my personal belief that parents should teach children that they should listen to their teachers only to the extent that they can learn the way the world works and how to 'work the system' to their greatest benefit, and then later in life if they decide the teacher is worthy of respect.
Creativity isn't just drawing. I can't be sure, but I assume if you enjoy learning what it is you are learning, chances are it is helping you to be creative; come up with new ideas, explore new avenues of thought, etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by Serkat
What does being a good student have to do with creativity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
I have total disdain for the British education system.
'Suffocating' is the pertinent word, I think.
I don't think I have ever been discouraged from being creative :/ but I do feel like kids nowadays are. Society wants everybody to be all perfect and boring and average.
A lot of teachers like to beat into the heads of their students that, when they are in class, they should pay strict attention to the material being taught and nothing else. Some kids actually do this regardless of intelligence level or how good they are doing in the class. A lot of kids are afraid to try anything different because they feel it will be unsatisfactory. They stick with what they already know will work. Therefore, some people's creativity is not sparked by the boredom of class, it is deadened because they become accustomed to following rules in association with being a 'good student'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higurashi
Who here agrees that school is a terrible measure of intelligence?
*Raises hand*
I agree, especially the public school systems we send our kids through.
Could use a good re-tooling, maybe less forgetting to develop our imaginations along side our intellect.
And no child left behind, haha.
Yes. Schools really promote conforming to what the masses want. They find what works for the majority and say this is the only way to learn so do it you dumb kid. If you have a different way of doing things you must be LD so heres a bunch of pills to make you think the right way.
I think that whats even worse is that most kids seem to look at learning as more of a chore than as a joy because of school. They look at it as just something that they have to do in order get what they want. Schools should teach children to love learning then set them free to learn what they want. I'm definetly homeschooling my kids if I have any.
Does anyone know if they are pushing uniforms in public schools in other parts of the country? They've done it in most schools in my city. I really think making children wear uniforms is disgusting.
Major citys only seem to be doing that, some bullshit about gang colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Really sick, parents need to start raising their children instead of leaving them to the streets for bullshit fake gangsters, real gangsters... don't shoot 17 year olds.
I would have not gone to school uniformed, I would have told them to throw me out I will not conform to that kind of bull.
Whatever. I don't pay attention at all in my Analytical Geometry/ Trigonometry class and I have a 102 in the class :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
Schools definitely hamper creativity... For example, standardized testing. We pretty much go to school to study for a test in stead of actually learn something, which is stupid. And because of these tests, classes have stricted deadlines and everything is rushed and it's just stupid.
Especially with the Writing Portion of the testing. You have to follow a strict format and if you deviate from it you won't pass it, which sucks because I can't write from a schematic; I have to make it up as I go along.
And I hate the whole "hurry up and wait!" attitude at my High School. I hope College is better, because by then I'm paying to be there.
This is also extremely applicable in the military, in most the same ways several of you have said.
College is a little bit better. But believe me, it's not because you're paying to be there. Sometimes that can be even more frustrating.
At highschool and lower levels, just about all the teachers seemed to be within a certain bad-mediocre boundaries, with few pleasant exceptions. In college there's a lot more variance; more really really good ones, but also more really really bad ones.
Personally, I think it's all a matter of a person's character. I definately believe schools tend to foster an environment that lacks creativity and uniqueness of thought, but it's a student's--and parent's--right, or even duty to exceed such expectations. In fact, something that spurred me on in highschool was the fact that I disagreed with a lot of what I saw, especially in my government and writing classes. I got terrible grades, but I always aced tests without studying. You have to get a kid interested in something if they're to have any hope of excelling.
But schools are not entirely to blame for this lack of interest. There are a lot of other factors.
Schools/standardized tests are definately not the best way of measuring intelligence. I think math is the only case in which this is true in any concrete way. But there are many facets of intelligence, many which could never be accurately measured on a test with a percentage. Intelligence is an enigma. It's personal and it varies. The sooner kids realize this, the better off they'll be.
It's unfortunate, but sometimes a bad example can teach you more than a good one. It's all a matter of using things to your advantage, being flexible, and believing/allowing your potential to be limitless.
Next time I'll remember to put /sarcasm at the end of my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Roxxor
Don't tell me I'm going to have to explain the above line with even more sarcasm.
Oh wait... I just did.
I realized this after I posted. But I didn't feel like editing my post :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
Ken Robbinson, what a briljant mind.
I've seen this Lecture before; YES schools kill creativity. He spoke my mind so much it brought me to tears. Cuz the story about that little girl in the end is so much my own story.
It is why I have pondered on wether or not I would continue and pick back up on studying and decided against it: My creativity is far too precious te me to have them spoil and limit it.
my sister is a high school teacher
in her first year as a teacher she came up with artsy fartsy reading project. And what happened next still shocks me
She had students, 10nth grade students who have NEVER used
- scissors
- or glue
NEVER
they didn't even know how to hold the scissors right
guys, thats scary!!! I can't imagine what that means their gradeschool was like....
creativity is so important. it's how our brains are designed to learn. we aren't designed to learn in a mechanical fashion. someone please save our gradeschools!
Are you sure they weren't just playing a joke and your sister is a tool to the students? "Not knowing how to use scissors or glue" sounds like a great gag to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by juroara
this was a reading class for high schoolers who have trouble reading 4rth grade material and write like ten year olds, who knows :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
Creativity seems to be a gift at birth. It is a resilient virtue - truly creative people will survive any kind of bad schooling. These people have a tendency to transcend the education system. Look at the world's billionaires and note how few of them finished high school. Not all of them are creative - many of them are just unscrupulous money-addicted turds; but many of them have exhibited extraordinary creativity.
The reason why so many of these people dropped out of school is probably because of the undeniable fact that schools do not encourage creativity, but they cannot extinguish the flame in a truly gifted, creative person. It could be argued that attempting to teach people creativity would actually stifle it, by spoon-feeding them a perception of what creativity is, instead of giving them nothing and forcing them to create something for themselves. But again, in spite of this, I believe true creativity would survive.
Many of the most creative people had no-one to teach them. Take two art forms that emerged in the 20th century: cinema and animation. Who taught Sergei Eisenstein to make movies? No-one. Yet he came up with the principle of montage, which resulted in some of the most profoundly creative movies ever made. Hitchcock is another one. Although he had Eisenstein to draw upon, this lowly clapperboard operator relied purely upon his own ingenuity in perfecting and defining the suspense film genre.
Who taught Max Fleischer, Bob Clampett, Chuck Jones, Walt Disney et. al. to produce animated cartoons? Again, no-one, yet what they produced was extraordinary in its creativity, and no-one has yet come within an elephant's fart of producing anything as good since.
True. Einstein too was a drop out. I mean what does that say about education?
But I think many briljant people's discoveries, like Einstein's Relativity theory, are the result from going against the grain and rapturing from conservative, mainstream ideas.
Especially me, being a born to be Musician and visual artist, have a problem in a world that underappreciates Creativity.
Depend on the professor I think. Some of them nurture creativity, my graphics professor loved to let us do our own thing. But for the most part, I feel that high schools suppress creativity, not college.
That's a myth, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKA
He had to transfer once, but for different reasons.
And he didn't get the 'Abitur' right away, since his family moved
to italy, but he got it later. (Abitur is the degree you get in germany)
He was incredibly good in math and sciences, sucked in sports and
wasn't that great with languages either.
But he was an extraordinary student, and also later he nailed university.
(Lots of studying he did himself though)
Has anyone ever heard of a school called Summerhill? I read a book about it last year. It's basically a boarding school that allows students be more free and creative. The child starts when he is young, like age 6, but it's up to him when he wants to start taking classes. According the book, during the first few years of the child's attendence, he just plays outside and has fun most of the time. Eventually, he himself will choose to start taking classes, making the work more interesting to him and less of a chore. The point of the school is not to excell brilliantly at life, but to excell at (and be happy with) whatever career the child wants to pursue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School
http://www.summerhillschool.co.uk/
yes, they do....so stop teaching and start modelingQuote:
Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant
If Einstein were hypothetically a drop-out, that would say essentially nothing about the education system. Because that is anecdotal evidence, i.e., not real evidence.
I was fortunate to have several teachers who were able to teach their subject, without having to worry about jumping through the hoops that the UK education system insisted upon. They were there of course, but because the classes I happened to be in were overall, intelligent, we could cover extra material. I was also fortunate enough to have several teachers who encouraged critical and free thinking, and learning about ideas and concepts that were not required.
The UK's system is a disgrace at the moment. It's filled with rote-learning mostly unrelated arbitrary facts without teaching critical thinking and understanding of the concepts behind the facts.
But certainly in many areas of the UK education system, creativity has no place. Neither do many other valuable skills. The entire system is geared around teaching students how to pass exams. And it needs to change.
Hell, even art class does. They give you all of these specific requirements and rules, every child's piece looks the same.
I hadn't thought about that... hmmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric