Thread: For chuff's sake... why are people still having fucking children?

Have you thought about the implication of people who look at the situation reasonably not having children? People who do not or cannot look at the situation reasonably will still procreate. This leaves the future genetic pool of humankind solely up to those who are incapable of reason to populate.

It is the moral duty of the rational human to bear offspring for the advancement of the human species.

Example; see Idiocracy

Wow. Why don't you tell us how you really feel about it? (I kid...)

I agree that the earth is overpopulated and only growing worse. Personally, if I do decide to have kids, it will be through adoption, but that is my own choice. I whole-heartedly believe that certain people shouldn't be parents the fact that promiscuous behavior is becoming more widely tolerated - if not encouraged - is not helping the problem at all. Having more kids stuck in foster care, in detention facilities, and signed up for free health care is driving up taxes and fees. I don't have much of a problem when it comes to helping people who are having a hard time financially, but I'm tired of my money going to people who are not putting forth any effort to rectify their financial situation.

At the same time, there are couples who would make loving, caring parents and the fact that a child is the product of the two of them makes that bond even closer. That child is with them from day 1 and the parents have that chance to learn everything there is to learn about their son/daughter. There's no guessing what it's been feed, where it sleeps at night, or what kinds of people have influenced its life. Sure, the act of having a child is somewhat selfish, but it's also the opportunity to provide this world with a bright and loving human being, something I feel we are lacking at times.

If you consider the kinds of kids who are in orphanages or "facilities," you don't fully know what kind of boy or girl you're going to get. Sure, you might get his/her medical records and if they have any psychological/criminal background, but you don't know what kind of treatment, discipline, or loving affection they have or haven't received. It's one thing to adopt a baby, but there are plenty of kids who come from criminal parents who didn't want to take care of another human being and/or had their child taken away. There are seriously messed up kids and a lot of parents are not capable of providing them the environment they need to become functional members of society. It's possible, yes, but it takes a special type of person to accomplish that. Plus, if the parents already have a child or children, do they want to bring an "unknown" into the mix?

There will always be offspring. I think that people need to be more aware of the consequences of bring a child into the world, especially when they are not financially, mentally, emotionally, and/or physically ready to do so. It's the biggest commitment anyone can make, and especially since it can happen without being planned, I'd hope that more people would think about what they're doing rather than constantly think "It won't happen to me."

It all comes down to people thinking first.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Example; see Idiocracy

This.

There are, just as the narrator in the video claimed, no natural predators to pick off the "inferior" (or in our case "dumb") people who screw everything they can. Either society will go through a change that will only allow the more level-headed to survive, or some other consequence will arise as the result of the inflation of the "dumb" population. That's not to bash on genuinely stupid people though, as there are plenty of those who don't feel inclined to produce offspring left and right anyways. People are still people.

But I conclude that:



WE NEED YOU
FOR PREDATION
OF THE DUMB

Originally Posted by Idolfan

WTF? We're not animals though

.........

Anyway im with Xaqaria on this, chavs breed earlier, faster and in much larger quantity (for benefit purposes), than the rest of us.. Its the intelligent persons duty to procreate as much as is necessary to tip the balance back.

People are allowed to have children because for one; that is what we are here to primarily do and two; because some people have unconditional love for their sons/daughters and noone can change that.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Age: 16

Tell me you feel the same in 10 years...

Originally Posted by Dave B

People are allowed to have children because for one; that is what we are here to primarily do and two; because some people have unconditional love for their sons/daughters and noone can change that.

But that was kind of the point Idolfan was trying to make; evolution has indeed made us baby making machines. But that doesn't mean we are obligated to procreate. Evolution has also given us intelligence and we can see that it's not necessarily useful to reproduce. The parental love kind of is also a sort of in-built feeling to ensure the survive of the children, though not all feel this love.

On the other hand the reasons for preventing birth would also apply to the living. Why should we live and suffer through all of this world?

@ Xaqaria and Invader: I have already thought about the gene pool thing, and I believe that human technology is evolving far too quickly for this to be a problem. The stupid people may be having more children at the moment but this is not going to make any significance for thousands of years. I think by that time technology will have sorted things out. Hell, we could have artificial IQ boosts in that time. We wouldn't need our genes anymore.

@ Amethyst Star: Yes, you might be able to make a child's life better if they're with you from day one. But that doesn't change the fact that you can improve the life of an existing child, however hard it may be. Thus, it is still selfish to choose the former option. However, if the child you are potentially going to adopt is simply too weighty for you, then I guess that gives you more of an excuse to have a kid. But just in case you get to that stage, there's still all the other reasons I listed to just leave it be.

@ RooJ: Good luck in tipping the balance back then.

@ Dave B: FUCK YOU. What the hell do you mean it's our primary purpose to procreate??? Oh, I'll just have a kid, and then they'll have another kid and they'll have another kid and der der der der der der der der der IT NEVER FUCKING ENDS DOES IT? If that's our primary purpose then why don't we just KILL OURSELVES??? Plus, you can't have unconditional love for your son and daughter if you don't have a son or daugher. Is it really too much of a fucking step to transfer that love onto another child? What it the freaking problem there?

Sorry, that was well to fiery. I just care about this a lot.

@ Adam: Please attack my arguments and not my age. And btw I will feel the same in ten years.

whats next?

we all have to follow the same religion?

obviously not everyone agrees that having a child is such a horrible thing. you have no right to tell someone they don't have the right to have a child.

to say that people aren't allowed to have children, is the exact same line of thinking that no one is allowed to have an abortion


ps. the world isn't spiraling down into chaos because we are overpopulated. the best research is telling us we have enough resources for every human being to live a good life. and a green eco friendly life at that. the real problem is our stubbornness to accept that real solution is to change our lifestyle, and those in power who are manipulating the world economy

WTF? We're not animals though, we're people!

Uh. No. :l

You seem to hold the view that we transcend biology. We don't. We are organisms, and as such it is indeed our primary function to reproduce.

But the population of Europe is actually falling anyway. In the UK at least, the birth rate is 1.8.

It will fall naturally. It's gotten too high and soon it will start to fall and that's that.

Actually, well this is a senseless topic nevermind.

Idolfan...

perhaps you would have rather not have had your parents have you.

If not for there "selfish" act, you would not exist here today to make this argument before us.

Genetically, it's totally natural to want to make a child. Don't worry though, the fact that we have overpopulation is not a problem.

Cuz our Earth is about to go through a massive weeding-out of humanity, aka The Crisis. Our finite/limited resources are running out. Coal, oil, fresh water (being used faster than it can be replenished)... the shit's gonna hit the fan soon, in a major way. Run out of resources = No cars. No transportation. Killed electricity. Halted food production. Infected water. Billions will die. Goodbye, overpopulation problem.

*Pfoo.*

EDIT: See this wonderful thread by Xei on the subject: Modern civilisation will be destroyed in a matter of years

It makes me want to play the 28 Days Later theme song.

Originally Posted by Xei

Uh. No. :l

You seem to hold the view that we transcend biology. We don't. We are organisms, and as such it is indeed our primary function to reproduce.

But the population of Europe is actually falling anyway. In the UK at least, the birth rate is 1.8.

It will fall naturally. It's gotten too high and soon it will start to fall and that's that.

You're totally missing the point. We ARE organisms, yes, but unlike ANIMALS we have the choice to take control of our environment and overcome our instinct. Hey, raping and killing are also instincts to a lot of people, but that gives them no further excuse to follow it. Who the fuck cares about your 'primary function' to reproduce? Your primary function can be whatever you want it to be. That's what seperates HUMANS from ANIMALS. If you want to look at NATURE for your code of ethics then be my guest. After all, the natural world is well known for it's merciful and humane tendencies.

As for the bastard retarded, "Good job your mother was pro-life" (excuse for an) argument, it is paradoxical. I wouldn't give a shit if I wasn't around, because I couldn't give a shit because I wouldn't exist. What are you implying WakataDreamer? Just because everyone's mother is pro-life that means we have to follow in their footsteps? I know this might surprise you, but I AM GLAD TO HAVE BEEN BORN. The thing is, it's not going to upset anybody to stop them being born because they won't even exist in the first place. Where's the inhumanity in that? I am merely spreading the philosophy that having a child is undesirable.

PS. I know a fuckload of people that are not exactly happy to have been born, so you might want to think about that argument the next time before you use it.

As for the armageddon thing; okay, that is a good point, I'll give you that. But ethically, I still do not want to bear the guilt of having a child endure that thing. It's my life and I can do what I want with it and I choose not to bring a kid into the world to see that. That's all it is. It's just a PHILOSOPHY. I am not FORCING anyone not to have a kid. If nobody had kids then the human race would die out, I do NOT want that to happen. Antinatalism isn't going to make it happen either.

First off, humans:

Animals
Chordata
Mammals
Primates
Homidae
Homo
Sapiens

Second: you seem incredibly ignorant of human history. Here is the jist of it: every single major event in history has been the result of a failure to transcend biology. Communism, for example: complete failure. Why? People were greedy and took over the whole thing. Technology as another example; almost all technological advancements were made during war time. The rest were down to capitalism, which is entirely powered by human nature (greed).

When there is no food left, the population will die off. There's no point bothering trying to keep it down; we have always failed to transcend nature, and at the end of civilisation, that will become more clear than ever.

Cuz our Earth is about to go throughj a massive weeding-out of humanity, aka The Crisis. Our finite/limited resources are running out. Coal, oil, fresh water (being used faster than it can be replenished)... the shit's gonna hit the fan soon, in a major way. Run out of resources = No cars. No transportation. Killed electricity. Halted food production. Infected water. Billions will die. Goodbye, overpopulation problem.

Yep, it's hard to argue with it.

The only thing I'd point out is that there's still quite a large amount of coal left, in the UK at least. This could possibly see us through until we finally develop a proper alternative such as fusion, but that iffy on its own without considering the possibility that we are at war with the world.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

@ Adam: Please attack my arguments and not my age. And btw I will feel the same in ten years.

I was... I mean when you were 10 you thought girls were icky no doubt and didn't want a girlfriend. I bet you thought you would never want one amirite?

People opinions and feelings change as they mature and grow up, and I'm sure in 10 years you will not feel the same, I don't care what you say. You cannot honestly tell me you've never changed you opinion on anything in your life after growing up a little more? All I'm saying is at your age I was the same, I didn't think I'd ever want kids, hell I didn't even want a girlfriend, but things change...

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I thought that by 2009 people would have come to their senses.

I am pissed off to an abnormal extent because of stuff like this. I had a mate at school tell me, in defense of having a child, "It's our purpose as an animal to have children". WTF? We're not animals though, we're people!

Stopped reading there.

Originally Posted by Adam

I was... I mean when you were 10 you thought girls were icky no doubt and didn't want a girlfriend. I bet you thought you would never want one amirite?

People opinions and feelings change as they mature and grow up, and I'm sure in 10 years you will not feel the same, I don't care what you say. You cannot honestly tell me you've never changed you opinion on anything in your life after growing up a little more? All I'm saying is at your age I was the same, I didn't think I'd ever want kids, hell I didn't even want a girlfriend, but things change...

You still haven't adressed any of my arguments. You speak as if you've recieved a 'revelation' of some sort. Would you fancy sharing that with me?

As for the whole humans and animals thing. You're all missing the point entirely. It's just an argument over definitions, and I'm sorry for starting it. Yes, we are 'animals', and we evolved from lower species. But, my fellow DVers, have you noticed the skyscrapers? Have you noticed the houses, and fucking roads, and fucking cars, and fucking trains, aeroplanes, tanks, missiles, science, religion, philosophy???

Do you perhaps now understand why I say people are different from animals?

THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON.

Nobody should look at ANIMALS to dictate their code of ethics. This is one way in which Darwin partially assfucked the world.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

You still haven't adressed any of my arguments. You speak as if you've recieved a 'revelation' of some sort. Would you fancy sharing that with me?

I was arguing against this statement;

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I tell you guys with all the honesty of my heart, there is little I could do on this Earth which would make me feel more guilty than having a child. Have I to spell out the reasons?

Right now, I'm sure that's how you feel. At 16 you shouldn't worry about settling down, getting married and raising a family. My point was, in 10 years time I'm sure you'll feel differently about it all

He's not saying he doesn't want to have a child. He's saying that having a child can't be justified. Don't discount his logic because of his age, even if he is wrong (I'm not saying he is.) You're just saying when he's older he will want to have a kid, as if that even has anything to do with what he's saying. People can want to have kids but choose not to, because it's unjustified. I'm not taking any sides or arguing, just trying to clear it up, because reading this thread got irritating.

I love children, don't get me wrong, and I would love to raise kids. Seriously. In fact I love kids so much I couldn't stand to leave them in any danger. I'd rather save a child than make one.

The point is, is it really too much to fucking ask to adopt instead of procreate? Or is it that you want to become PARTIALLY IMMORTAL by PASSING ON YOUR GENES and CONTINUING THE FAMILY BLOODLINE?

Ok well of course! It was so simple, you're a genius Idolfan!!!
Let's have everybody in the world not have anymore children for 70 years and.... oh shit

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Or is it that you want to become PARTIALLY IMMORTAL by PASSING ON YOUR GENES and CONTINUING THE FAMILY BLOODLINE?

Damn right I do.

A lot of things that we do aren't justified. It isn't justified to eat and drink more than what sustains your life. It isn't justified to have any material possessions that are not required for your survival. It isn't justified one bit to be sitting at the computer typing on the internet. Seriously, who the hell do you think you are, Idolfan?

The fact is sometimes we get selfish. Survival of the fittest. The world is cruel. Sorry, but that's how it is.

I'm having 2-3 kids. One to replace myself, one to replace my wife, and one to replace some random kid who gets run over on the street/a nonexistent child. Try and stop me, Idolfan.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

@ Adam: Please attack my arguments and not my age. And btw I will feel the same in ten years.

No offense but... I read your post and age has a lot to do with it here. I see it in my 16 year old brother, and because of him, I look back on myself 5 years ago and can see it too... the "I am completely matured enough by now to know exactly what I am talking about and cannot be wrong", with that same exact fiery tone you posses in your posts.

Been there done that. Was stupid, was wrong, the end.