Talk out of your Ass

I recently posted this as a reply, flipping into a rant on one person over something, though it was triggered by multiple accounts of similar behaviour by others both on and off forums. While it was posted elsewhere, I figured it warranted its own discussion.

I don't get it, what is it with people these days speaking completely away from the issue, or arguing a non-issue?

"I'm going to get milk."
"Lactose Intolerance is just another effect of damaged genetics because of our human failure to take care of ourselves. Make those who are lactose intolerant drink some more milk, maybe it'll toughen them up."
"Uh... 1% or 2%?"

Either everyone is getting more ridiculous by the day, or there are a lot of people talking about vaguely related subjects to others that are completely invisible to me, and I need to go to a psych. hospital. It seems much more likely though that the world is going insane all at once, rather than just me.

TL;DR: Shut up.

*sigh*

"I'm going to get milk" sound like something that would fit right into senseless banter, and I doubt that would count. You could always spend some of your time to point out specific posts on the forum that do this, though. You know, since you're so passionate about the issue. :)

The world is moving on, Exo.
The world is moving on.

It was a more extreme example that I made up :P

But the issues aren't simply here, they're everywhere. I've had discussions on the difference between Christianity and Judaism, only to have the fact brought up that religions are meaningless and corrupt, man-made institutions. It doesn't matter how true or false the claim is, it was completely irrelevant and only vaguely related.

Oh yes, of course. You reminded me of a little something that passed between a friend and myself last night, actually, and it went along these lines:

Myself: This movie makes that situation look pretty fun!
Friend: That situation is not fun.

This example is subtle, but you can see what's going on. Talking about how well a movie sold an idea (and they always do) got a response that was a bit besides the point.


I think the religion example works well though. It's one of those things that runs deep with most folk, and they'll find a way to talk about what they want to talk about with respect to that topic, even if you only want to discuss its spread through civilization or, say, the theology itself.

Precisely. You make a point of a movie taking an idea and glorifying it, making it look good, awesome and fun. It's a comment on how the movie industry can take even the worst of things and make them appear good, that they can take the worst of situations and make them coveted. Whereas the response you get is, more along the lines of "Are you kidding? That's not a good situation to be in at all!" That really wasn't the point trying to be made.

Perfect example. You're right, much more subtle but it works. And this is everywhere. It's like people can't comprehend what the other is saying anymore, can't read between the lines, can't comprehend metaphor and can't look past the static state of things and see their meaning and purpose. Not only is it a damper on human communication, but it seems like a symptom of a damper on intellect and understanding which is nothing good for us as people.

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

I recently posted this as a reply, flipping into a rant on one person over something, though it was triggered by multiple accounts of similar behaviour by others both on and off forums. While it was posted elsewhere, I figured it warranted its own discussion.

I don't get it, what is it with people these days speaking completely away from the issue, or arguing a non-issue?

"I'm going to get milk."
"Lactose Intolerance is just another effect of damaged genetics because of our human failure to take care of ourselves. Make those who are lactose intolerant drink some more milk, maybe it'll toughen them up."
"Uh... 1% or 2%?"

Either everyone is getting more ridiculous by the day, or there are a lot of people talking about vaguely related subjects to others that are completely invisible to me, and I need to go to a psych. hospital. It seems much more likely though that the world is going insane all at once, rather than just me.

TL;DR: Shut up.

*sigh*

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Ranting is a sign of suppressed anger caused by magical alternate dimensions being compressed by the gravity our meat production centers are creating. We need to strike down all kinds of science for it is bad and doesn't let personal, spiritual experiences soar.



I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist...

I wouldn't say its so much about people not being able to listen as people not knowing how. So much emphasis now-a-days is placed on making a statement, having your own opinion, [insert favorite variant here]. People are forced so hard into having their own views that they don't know that it's okay to at the very least listen to what the others are saying. It eventually grows into almost a sickness where anything even vaguely related to what they are saying triggers them into a self-righteous stubborn rage. I admit to doing this sometimes as well.

Exactly, Exo.

The question you (we) now have to ask is as follows: Is this a slowly emerging new phenomenon, or are we only now noticing what's been going on in human communication for thousands of years? I agree that it displays a lack of immediate intelligence or a lack of focus on the situation. My guess is that, like with all other things, people eventually get too comfortable with what they're used to doing and fall into a sort of careless 'autopilot state' (imagine how you first drove a car: full attention to everything. Compare that to the way you drive now). They'll pick a response that appears to be the best choice, without having to put much effort into coming up with it. Heuristics, yes?

The other question: Is this a problem we can help other people fix?

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

I don't get it, what is it with people these days speaking completely away from the issue, or arguing a non-issue?

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I am utterly convinced

that the only reason people do that (apart from just being dumb, in some cases)

is because they don't have a substantial argument for whatever it is you're discussing.

Which, IMO, is exactly why it pops up in religious discussions so often.

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

"Lactose Intolerance is just another effect of damaged genetics because of our human failure to take care of ourselves. Make those who are lactose intolerant drink some more milk, maybe it'll toughen them up."

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in this case it's a consequence of us not being evolved to deal with bovine milk. Drinking more milk isn't going to toughen anyone up. Is this response an example of what you're talking about? ;)

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Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

I am utterly convinced that the only reason people do that (apart from just being dumb, in some cases) is because they don't have a substantial argument for whatever it is you're discussing.

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That might be jumping the gun a little. Could it be that they don't find what you are talking about interesting and so are trying to change the subject to something that they find a little more interesting?

In debates, it is often necessary to get 'recursive' and discuss related topics to fit things together. If a claim, A, is made which rests on another claim, B, then it can become necessary to debate the validity of claim B.

EDIT: Athough this can also be a symptom of people trying to change the subject to look they didn't loose the debate. It can go both ways.

People do often have pet peeves though and so they can try to fit them into a conversation whenever the get the chance.

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

But the issues aren't simply here, they're everywhere. I've had discussions on the difference between Christianity and Judaism, only to have the fact brought up that religions are meaningless and corrupt, man-made institutions. It doesn't matter how true or false the claim is, it was completely irrelevant and only vaguely related.

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People speak out the associations that they feel coming up. I often see how people come into a topic only to announce that it's stupid to discuss it and how they don't care for it. They do it because they feel that it's actually related to the discussed topic. And it is, for them.

IRL it happens much more often. I believe that the reason why is happens is that we often find what others say boring. What you say is never boring, but if somebody else says something that isn't interesting enough, you don't care to talk about it.

In Invader's example:

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Myself: This movie makes that situation look pretty fun!
Friend: That situation is not fun.

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it sounds as if his friend knew what he was saying, but he didn't really care for Invader's thoughts. So instead he chose to say something related to what he heard, but without discussing his thoughts.

But there are different types of going off-topic. It depends on what kind of conversation you're having. I believe that wanting to always stay on-topic is freaky. In this case you wouldn't speak your mind, and would suppress your thoughts, and you'd tolerate it only if the conversation was extremely interesting for you.

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Originally Posted by Arutad

People speak out the associations that they feel coming up. I often see how people come into a topic only to announce that it's stupid to discuss it and how they don't care for it. They do it because they feel that it's actually related to the discussed topic. And it is, for them.

IRL it happens much more often. I believe that the reason why is happens is that we often find what others say boring. What you say is never boring, but if somebody else says something that isn't interesting enough, you don't care to talk about it.

In Invader's example:

it sounds as if his friend knew what he was saying, but he didn't really care for Invader's thoughts. So instead he chose to say something related to what he heard, but without discussing his thoughts.

But there are different types of going off-topic. It depends on what kind of conversation you're having. I believe that wanting to always stay on-topic is freaky. In this case you wouldn't speak your mind, and would suppress your thoughts, and you'd tolerate it only if the conversation was extremely interesting for you.

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I agree with a lot of what Arutad is saying here. Also, I believe that it's somewhat like a standard of society to be able to flow through conversations like this, I often find myself jumping from topic to topic very quickly in conversations with people and losing track of what I was initially trying to discuss, because we end up going off on a tangent. Personally, I find it makes for good conversation, it keeps the conversation fresh and interesting, without tiring out the subject, and just leads into more conversation on more subjects.

I will never consciously take something way off-topic on purpose, but if I see an association to something else that I find is relevant to the subject or whatever, I will bring it up.

Perhaps you don't mean for your example to be taken literally, but in the example of "This situation looks fun! - That situation is not fun", I think something like that comes from the fact that that person wants to tell you that no, that situation is indeed not fun. If you had elaborated, and said "The company really made that situation look fun by emphasizing whatever whatever", but still indicate that you're aware that the situation in real life is indeed not fun, then the second person would not have a response like that. But because the person feels that you think that that situation is fun, they are going to try to correct you on it, because that's what people do, they try to put forth their own opinions, as they obviously believe their own opinions to be the right, or best ones.

To me though, this seems more like a subconscious way of trying to develop conversation that has eased its way into peoples minds, and that may be why its seen so prevalent now. That is, if I understood the thread correctly....

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Originally Posted by Bayside

To me though, this seems more like a subconscious way of trying to develop conversation that has eased its way into peoples minds, and that may be why its seen so prevalent now.

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Do you think that it wasn't prevalent before?

Well, that's actually hard to say, as I'm a young person, and I have no idea what the past was like. But, it would make sense if it was just as prevalent as ever.

I think it's natural. You see it all the time when you're in a group of people. People talk and bring up whatever associations come up for them related to the current topic at hand. The most interesting conversation (related or unrelated) or the most charismatic person "wins" a few more seconds of people's attention and the process repeats itself.

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Originally Posted by ExoByte

I recently posted this as a reply, flipping into a rant on one person over something, though it was triggered by multiple accounts of similar behaviour by others both on and off forums. While it was posted elsewhere, I figured it warranted its own discussion.

I don't get it, what is it with people these days speaking completely away from the issue, or arguing a non-issue?

"I'm going to get milk."
"Lactose Intolerance is just another effect of damaged genetics because of our human failure to take care of ourselves. Make those who are lactose intolerant drink some more milk, maybe it'll toughen them up."
"Uh... 1% or 2%?"

Either everyone is getting more ridiculous by the day, or there are a lot of people talking about vaguely related subjects to others that are completely invisible to me, and I need to go to a psych. hospital. It seems much more likely though that the world is going insane all at once, rather than just me.

TL;DR: Shut up.

*sigh*

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Moooooooo


Moooooo


I love cereal.

Drinking more milk gives me acne in strange uncomfortable places. I tried stopping dairy all together, but then I broke a toe. Moderation!

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Originally Posted by l000needles

I think it's natural. You see it all the time when you're in a group of people. People talk and bring up whatever associations come up for them related to the current topic at hand. The most interesting conversation (related or unrelated) or the most charismatic person "wins" a few more seconds of people's attention and the process repeats itself.

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It's how the mind works, and incidentally exactly how dreams work. Dreams are formed in the same way, unstable ones just go off on a tangent more often.

The other question: Is this a problem we can help other people fix?[/QUOTE]
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Maybe.

The following have been used as training techniques in attempts to fix me:
"Shut the *#@! up!" " You're derailing the thread!" "Wtf?" "You're interrupting again!"

A more effective technique would be to providing forum users with ADHD meds to assist with impulse control. :happyhappy: