Printable View
All I heard him say was something about secret societies and the next thing you know, their, restraining the guy, tasing him constantly....and people are sitting there watching. What was that all about? I'm sorry but that shit was funny, he really didn't have to make a scene about it though, I would have just walked out of there. He didn't break any laws, so I'm really confused why those campus police acted that way.
I wonder what it feels like to get tasered lol
Uh.
We don't have a telepathic link to your brain stem (thankfully).
Did it ever occur to you to actually think about the people that read your stuff before you decide to spew words out? You know, how they might not know what you're on about
oh sorry, i was assuming everyone saw this before. It's pretty popular on the net.Quote:
Originally Posted by Photolysis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
The guy asked if he was a part of skull and bones society and then they just slay him. Who was he talking to?
Guess freedom of speech is out the window.
omg, you made a funnyQuote:
We don't have a telepathic link to your brain stem (thankfully).
I've changed my mind since right after that happened. The police were ridiculous in telling the kid to stop talking, so the police screwed up there. When all he did was merely keep talking, the police (if they were right, which they weren't) needed to verbally tell him to stop a few more times. They got physical way too quickly. Then the kid resisted, at which point tasering is justifiable, but he should not have been put in that situation in the first place.
That clip cuts out a lot of what happened. These two videos show much more:
I counted, he was asked 5 times to get to his question, which he never really did. Even when he did have a sentence that ended in a question, he didn't stop to hear John Kerry's reply. That's why he was cut off, because he was just preaching, not asking a question.
A normal Q&A session is like this:
As you can see, the person doesn't go on ranting and preaching. They ask their question, listen to the reply and move on.
When they cut his mic off, they first just tried escorting him outside. They didn't have cuffs out and seemed to have no intentions of arresting him at that moment. However, then he resisted. He pushed the officers and resisted as much as he could. The officers had no better solution, it was either let him rant all day when people were there to listen to someone else, or they could use some other force to get him out. So what would've been better? Hitting him with a baton?
If you think that the officers overreacted, then you're just looking at as if he asked normal question and got tased, but that's not what happened. All he would've had to do is ask and listen, but he never did.
And if you still disagree, then consider that Andrew Meyer (the victim) himself has since agreed that he was out of line and that the officers were doing their job. He says that in this interview:
Yes, I've discussed this before :p
Wow. I guess patriots and truth-seekers are the new terrorists :p
What did he do? Ask too many damn questions...one of the campus police officers had a smile on his face. That's sick....
How much time was between the cops' first request for him to stop talking and when the cops got physical? I am at work and can't hear it.
I think if the guy hadn't spoken with the tone he did while asking the question, then the police wouldn't have asked him to stop. Had he said it in a calm way then I bet there would have been no problem and the question would have been answered and without tasering.
In the first video I linked, he starts his "question" at 0:10. The officers ask him to get to his question at 0:35, 0:42, 0:48, 1:18, and then finally cut his mic at 1:40. So from the first time they tell him to ask his question, it's about 65 seconds or 1:05 before they cut his mic and start to escort him away. After all the struggling and hassle, he is actually tased at 3:08.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
He just wasn't asking a question. It was a university forum for people to hear from John Kerry and he went up and started ranting. Throughout his speach, he never stops talking for more than a second. So he clearly wasn't interested asking a simple question which is what the senator was there for. If he wanted answers to his series of questions, then he should've spoken with Kerry in an interview or something, not a public forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD
So there was never a warning about getting physical. He kept disobeying their demand that he get to the question and then he got to it, at which point they got physical. I have sound now, and I watched the video again. It looks like he asked about Skull and Bones and immediately got physically handled. That is unnecessary force. The cops should have said for him to stop talking or else be escorted out, if he really needed to stop talking, which I don't think he did. That part is ridiculous too. Once he was grabbed, however, he shouldn't have resisted. I still think the guy is an asshole and an attention getter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyre
For what it's worth, they cut it immediately after he asked about Skull and Bones. The soundboard isn't right beside them, so they would've motioned to have him cut off a few seconds previous to that. Probably around the same time he mentioned Clinton being impeached for a blowjob.
http://images.encyclopediadramatica....esomeweb20.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Vampyre
Your comment causes me to experience joy
lol that's coolQuote:
Originally Posted by WakataDreamer
don't tase me bro :3
He was asking for it. I would have knocked him out just to shut him up.
yea, your probally right.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofclutch
That guy got pwned by that taser though. People were just sitting there watching like...wow..until he started screaming for help is when people started saying stop.
He did kind of shove them back when they were grabbing him, so I don't think he is entirely innocent. However arresting him his ridiculous. I don't know what happened, but what normally happens if after taking the person down the station they leave them there over night or whatever then release them without any charges.
As for it being a public forum. A forum implies discussion, not a lecture. So when you open the floor to questions, you put yourself at risk for people asking questions you may not like, and possibly even ranting.
This still went way too far IMO.
Don't tase him, bro!
He said it himself that he broke the rules. I don't know specifically which ones, because I don't know what the rules of a forum usually are. Nonetheless, I imagine it was related to him ranting and never listening to anything Kerry says in response. I would assume this because the people there were interested in hearing from Kerry, not a random student's lecture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
And as for the police going too far... what would've been better? Talking to him got nowhere. Cutting his mic and escorting him caused him to get physical. They tried for a while to just pull him out, but with him resisting, he ended up on the ground and still resisting. At which point, what else should they have done, honestly? Should they have pulled out batons? Guns? Pepper spray?
I have a hard time seeing the police's actions as over-reactive, when Andrew was the one who started pushing, shoving, jumping, and yelling; not the police.
They should have escorted him from the building obviously. How bloody hard can it be, there were at least 5 cops there.
Quite clearly an extremely painful device intended for decapacitating dangerous individuals in extremely dangerous circumstances is not warranted here, and if you think otherwise you should be hanging your head in shame really, for having a very warped view of how a police force should be allowed to operate, and the reasons for that.
They tried and he resisted too much. The video cuts around 2:13, so you don't see how he goes from being escorted out to on the floor. However, it's obvious that they weren't intending to subdue him further until they couldn't take him out, even in handcuffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
EDIT: Actually, the second video I posted shows that he tried to break away from the police right by the door and they grabbed him, ending up on the floor.
Look at it from the police officers' point of view it kinda goes like this:
Phase 1: Guy is thanking Kerry before asking a question.
Phase 2: Guy is taking a little long to get to his question. Ask him to get to the point.
Phase 3: Guy is ranting, not getting to his questions, and clearly not listening to Kerry's replies. Cut his mic, let's just take him outside and have the forum continue normally.
Phase 4: Guy is resisting, violently, from being escorted outside. Continue to pull him out, arrest if necessary.
Phase 5: Guy is inciting a riot by calling out for help, encouraging people to fight the police. Get him out quickly by any means.
Phase 6: Guy is on ground, resisting arrest. He won't turn over. All he's doing is calling out for help and resisting more.
Phase 7: Guy is handcuffed and still resisting arrest. Use taser to subdue him.
Phase 8: Guy is subdued and we can now take him outside.
So I must ask: where did they go wrong, and what would have been the better alternative?
I believe it was warranted. They did attempt to simply escort him at first, but he resisted heavily, kicking and swinging trying to get away. He continued to resist even when they told him they'd tase him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
It can in fact be difficult for even five people to subdue one. Do you know why police use tasers? Because they use the tool of pain to incapacitate the individual without causing any long-term effects. They do their job efficiently, the guy didn't resist at all after he was tased. If they hadn't tased him, he would have continued on to resist. What were they supposed to do? Hit him in the side of the head with their ASP batons?
Perhaps a misconception is that he was arrested for ranting and taking too long to ask his question, which isn't the case. He was escorted out of the forum for that. However, he started pushing, resisting, and calling out for help which is inciting a riot. That is why he was arrested.
If he had simply cooperated, they probably would've gone outside and they would've said something like "This is a public forum, not your time to preach. If you want to lecture people about your ideas, then hold your own forum." Then they'd probably just let him go. If they intended to arrest him from the start, they probably would've had cuffs out when they first started escorting him away. The cuffs didn't come out until he was on the floor though.
Exactly, it is not meant for a lecture.. and that is what this prick was doing till he got the tasing he deserved. He's an attention whore and this thread only adds to the attention that a stupid child gets for shitting on the wall and laughing at you. I hate back-packing pretentious students like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
~
I just think it's kind of funny that 4 cops couldn't manage to get him out of the building, whether he was struggling or not. I'm not sticking up for the student or anything, but how is a taser justifiable when you've got 4 cops on top of one kid? With that much man (and woman) power it can't be that hard to get his arms and cuff them...
Is there any way you can prove this? I've never had to subdue someone, but it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult for that many officers to effectively subdue one student, unless they were all trying to do their own thing, and not working as a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Eagle
That's considered 'inciting a riot'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyre
He definitely should have cooperated with the officers, but still, tasering a guy on the ground encircled by 4-5 officers is a bit ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyre
Edit: Fuck, I didn't mean for this too be a separate post. If someone could merge this and my previous post that would be way cool.
Maybe they thought he was a Ron Paul supporter lol [/joke]Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbus
Yes, inciting a riot is encouraging others to riot or otherwise violently oppose police. Him pushing and shoving and jumping around shows that he felt the need to aggressively oppose police, and by calling out for help, he was encouraging other people to do the same. The only thing worse he could've done, would be to actually attack the officers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbus
Just imagine what would've happened if someone responded to his cries for help and started attacking the police. Then the police would have to retaliate against that person as well, and it would just snowball into a riot scenario.
Whether or not you think it's easy to handle someone from resisting arrest shouldn't matter. I can assure you, it's not as easy as it sounds, even with 5 people. Nonetheless, the officers tried and it failed so they proceeded to other methods. After being tased, he stopped resisting as much, and he didn't suffer any long-term injuries. Thus, the taser was effective in doing exactly what it's meant for.
Once again I must ask: "What would have been the better solution?" If you're only response is: "They should've carried him. There was 5 of them." That's insufficient, because (regardless of your opinion about how easy it should be) they tried that and it failed.
I'm not wholly convinced that they fully tried to simply grab his arms, cuff him, and carry him out, as all the video shows is him encircled by officers. The fact that they 'failed' to cuff him (which I'm not convinced that they did) could also be attributed to the fact that one officer had his taser pointed 'at his chest,' instead of putting his effort into securing his arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampyre
I dunno, the kid definitely had it coming for resisting, but I still think they could have subdued him without the taser.
At first, they weren't trying to arrest him. They were just trying to take him outside, where they'd talk to him. There isn't more than two people holding him until he's on the floor. At which point, you can see them pulling his arms and trying to cuff him, but he keeps resisting and they can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbus
If you think it's easy for 4-5 people to grab someone when they're resisting, have some friends of yours try to "arrest" you. Chances are you'll be able to resist enough that they can't unless they use something other than their hands.
EDIT: If you still think the officers' actions were over-reactive, then I guess we might as well go all the way. Next time there's a murderer under arrest, we should just give them the cuffs and ask that they put them on.
Of course there are times where it is hard to subdue one person. It is especially hard if the person is going ballistic and you are not supposed to use force. Remember that, in order to subdue someone, they ought not to use any force at all really. This brings us to the question - would it have been better if they got more physical or just used the taser?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catbus
Let us not also forget that the victim himself has admitted that the police officers did the right thing and that he was unreasonable.
~
One would think that a single taser application would have been enough to subdue a boy. They made the mistake of telling him to "get up" afterwards, which, with all due respect, is a retarded command to make after having turned someone's muscles into jelly.
Except that he did get up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Invader
Just for those who are against what the cops did, what do you think they should have done? Keeping in mind that Andrew himself admits he was in the wrong - I am trying to quell the argument of "they shouldn't have done anything" because even he admits he was antagonizing.
~