Our Effect on Dream/Culture

Because of something someone said in another thread, I came to sort of a revelation today. This site is googles top response after wikipedia on Lucid dreaming. I've been visiting this site for close to 4 years now and it has taken me this long to realize this fact, and really understand the implications.

Virtually everyone who has an interest in Lucid Dreaming has a signifigant chance of finding this site and gathering information from it. That puts all of us here in quite a lofty and responsibility laiden position. What do you all think about this? Does this in any way make you want to change the way you behave on this site, or is this all very nonchalant to you? That isn't intended to imply that anyone necessarily needs to change, I am just personally realizing that there may be many many more people who read what I have to say than I have realized while posting here during my 4 years, and it makes me think about how I may have personally affected dreaming culture, and maybe culture in general.

p.s. Someone out there in mod-land can feel free to find a more suitable arena for this discussion.

Hrm... that is pretty heavy. I wasn't aware that DV was that high up on
google's search for lucid dreaming.. It's odd to think that there may way over
the amount of people I suspected might be reading what I (and we) have to
say. If anything, I feel I ought to be contributing more to the on-topic section
because of this. You're right in that we are put in a rather high position of
responsibility.

I feel it's appropriate to ask if the administrators have a way of knowing how
many visitors DV gets daily, and if that information could be shared with us. I
hear references to lucid dreaming made here and there, it goes without saying
that many of those who do not know what it is will be going to google first.
Second after wikipedia.. Never would have occurred to me. I'm going to have to
mull that over a bit more to fully realize its meaning.

I've briefly thought about the implications our posts may have (and by "our", I'm referring to the more notable members here) and who may be perusing our forums.

Quote:

---

What do you all think about this?

---

I'm sort of nonchalant about the magnitude of it. I'm aware that the potential implications are vast but still, I don't walk around on pins and needles here. I suppose that what I'm saying is that I'm being myself here, and in hindsight, I can't recall an instance in which that's ever translated into a "bad thing".

Quote:

---

Does this in any way make you want to change the way you behave on this site, or is this all very nonchalant to you?

---

I believe I answered this above.


What a lot of people don't realize is that Dream Views is a big site, our guest numbers are high, and all those guests are reading OUR posts. Some of them just lurking and some deliberating on whether to join or not (possibly to speak to some of us).

All in all, I think members should be more conscientious of their actions here.

I don't have time to make a large post now, but I'll definately be posting in this thread again later. I have too much to say on the topic.

I just felt it necessary to show my support for this thread and bringing more attention to this fact.

Meh. I must have lurked around DV for 3 or 4 years before I registered and I don't think it ever had a big impact on the way I looked at dreaming.

But then again I was already a lucid dreamer before I met the term or DV, it probably affects the outlook of newcomers. Even more so because when it comes to dreaming and such the internet is a vast wasteland of mysticism and pseudo-science (all the astral-something forums, etc). Dreamviews provides a shelter from all that.

This site actually been near the top in google for years now. Which becomes apparent when you see just how huge the forum is. I mean, just count the number of forums, then the number of sub forums. We got far more than an average site, and honestly more than any other site I know of.

Meh.
I mostly post off-topic, so anything they see me post shouldn't really affect them.
But that's me.

Even if anyone interested in lucid dreaming is likely to hit dreamviews.com, it doesn't mean that all that many of them will venture into the forum, or do more than look up specific information or ask a couple questions before they move on, if they do wander in. My impression, from helping people with their computer/internet issues and talking to librarian friends who help the public use computers and the internet, is that casual internet users don't know what to do with a message board and are at most marginally aware of their existence.

Also, while we're the first hit after wikipedia and wikihow, that's two HUGE diversions, especially if you look at the level of detail in the Wikipedia page.

I recently discovered that my mock tribute page c. 1998 for Marian Engel's Bear--a novel widely taught as central to both Canadian and Feminist literature--still tops Google. I don't therefor assume that I've revolutionized Canadian Feminist literature.

Hm, Dream Views even comes out at number 1 in Google's index when you type in "Conscious dreaming" which has far more results (8,000,000+) than the term "lucid dreaming". o.o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I recently discovered that my mock tribute page c. 1998 for Marian Engel's Bear--a novel widely taught as central to both Canadian and Feminist literature--still tops Google. I don't therefor assume that I've revolutionized Canadian Feminist literature.

---

I question how you'd compare that to lucid dreaming, a topic that a far greater percentage of
people are familiar with. And what are the keywords that turn up your mock tribute page?
Xaq is pointing out that DV has a louder voice that we all happen to be contributing to as
members with extensive experience on general dream issues. Because of our knowledge
and the general public's lack thereof, we're responsible for passing that knowledge on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Invader

I question how you'd compare that to lucid dreaming, a topic that a far greater percentage of
people are familiar with. And what are the keywords that turn up your mock tribute page?
Xaq is pointing out that DV has a louder voice that we all happen to be contributing to as
members with extensive experience on general dream issues. Because of our knowledge
and the general public's lack thereof, we're responsible for passing that knowledge on.

---

I just shared the Bear thing because it makes me laff :p Any combination of Marian+Engel(s/'s)+Bear will bring it up.

I'm just pointing out that the subset of people who we influence are those 1) interested enough in lucid dreaming to go beyond Wiki AND 2) interested in using the forums on an informational website. The overlap is significant, and no doubt we draw people who were formerly exclusive to one domain into the area of overlap, but while the majority of people interested in lucid dreaming may well have seen the DV front page, it's highly unlikely that a majority have ever laid eyes on the forum, much less gone 'below the fold' in any depth.

I want people to put this into perspective.

The Lucidity Institute, founded by Stephen LaBerge; the institute founded for the sole purpose of expanding and keeping information on Lucid Dreaming, the very reason more than half of what we know on Lucid Dreaming exists today, and arguably the very reason this forum even exists today, is ranked below us on the Google index.

Dreamviews is the authority on Lucid Dreaming, Dreamviews is what introduces people to it and what helps make people veterans in it. Dreamviews is the most powerful resource for Lucid Dreaming information and discussion. we have the greatest archive of information, theories and hypothesis', tutorials, discussions and other resources on Lucid Dreaming and all its aspects, and we still continue to grow. Dreamviews is the flagship of dreaming and dreaming culture. This is why it is beyond important that we make the proper impression.

To say that it is no secret that I've rather agressively voiced my views on the subject before is an understatement. But I think it is important why people realize how many of us quit the staff, and how many more quit the forum, and why. Some saw the damange of their community, but with the founding of places like Mortal Mist, the reality became more clear. More people were afraid what would become of Dreaming culture due to, not simply the commecialization of Dreamviews, but the issues that arose from management of the community.

This place has a community and a culture of its own, but it represents something greater and is the gateway to a whole other world of possibilities. Given that this is, for the majority of people, their first step into the world of lucid dreaming. It is important that we give the right impressions. Ads about learning to be psychic, read minds, and predict the future with Tarot cards are not the way to go about this. Nor are some of the actions undertaken by the staff, the governing body, reflective of the personality that we should want associated with our community.

Let me explain what I mean by that last point. Our community, our forum and culture, is just as an important aspect as the content we keep. The entire purpose of this place is to introduce people to and educate people on Lucid Dreaming. The entire purpose of this forum is to serve as a resource for people to learn and further teach others about this ability. However, we are driving people away. Some of the most long standing and well known members have now left, and they felt like they were driven away. Many would tend to agree.

Unfortunately, the loss of these members was more than people realize. How many of those that left were more knowledgeable on Lucid Dreaming than any of us ever will be? Some of the wisest and most informative people have left, leaving a void in out community that is difficult to fill.

Changes happen. This is true, and things like this are bound to happen at some point. Sometimes we do need to just suck it up and move on. But to just let things go with the flow, take it as they come and do nothing to preserve everything this place stands for will be the downfall of this community. Try not to think of that in relation to its importance to us, but its importance to Lucid Dreaming.

Dreamviews is a commercial entity now. Its entire existence depends on how profitable it is, and how successful it is. There is nothing inherently wrong with this. But the current mindset by the higher ups of "TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC!" is detrimental and entirely counter intuitive to the preservation, and therefore, success of the community. If Dreamviews fails commercially, the Flagship sinks. Sure we can all hop back on the LD4ALL lifeboat, but there is forever a void in Dreaming culture which is being popularized by us, and everything this community stood for would be in vain.

This is why I get angry with some of the decisions made. This is why there is a very "Us vs Them" mindset between members and staff nowadays. Which is unfortunately another problem that is going to be more difficult to fix. This mindset was being born while I was still on staff and has only continued to develop.

All this goes beyond just the loss of long standing members, but the keeping of new members. People feeling like they're walking into a civil war aren't going to stay. People who have experienced dreaming, come in and see ads giving the impression Lucid Dreaming is some New Age form of Magicks or Witchcraft, are not going to stay.

The failure to build a community is the same as the death of a community, and will have the same effect in the end.

This is why it is of the utmost importance that we do everything we can to fix any problems we have, and improve Dreamviews where we can. It is important that all of us take a stand and do what we need to do to live up to the role and responsibility that we undertake by simply being here.

My $0.02 CDN.

TL;DR: Get to work.

I think that no matter what online forum you post in, your posts will have an impact regardless of how few or how many people read it....I generally take the stance that it is possible for the 'highest level' of people will be reading what is post so I try and make the posts as coherent, controversial and intelligent as possible.