Telekinesis

Watched the matrix for the first time in about a year the other day, and it had me wondering about telekineses. I mean, after all of the stuff that i have been interested in recently, it doesn't seem that far fetched. Most strong to me is the fact that the government had/has a remote viewing study center. I don't mean that the government is right about everything or even most things, but if they spend so much money on it, there must be some kind of truth behind it. And if you can see around the world using energy from your mind, why wouldn't you be able to make a small object move slightly?

what is your opinion? Also, if you think it is real, do you think that anyone who believes in it can do it, or just people born with it. Another short thing. (and "the men that stare at goats" gave me this idea lol) do you think that you could... kill or knock out something with it? i mean i don't want to kill anyone, but next time someone pegs me in the face in gym, it would be cool to you know, hold up some blood and knock them out...

PK is bullshit.

Every test on the subject has refuted it as a possibility.

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Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Every test on the subject has refuted it as a possibility.

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That is 100% false.
Tell it to Dean Radin.

I think it is possible. Is it likely? Probably not. The (very plausible, and even likely) immaterial nature of the universe would leave room for its possibility. Observable actions such as the quantum entanglement of electrons (the ability of the changing of one electron's spin to affect another electron's spin, over an infinite distance, simultaneously) almost imply the possibility. There is a lot that says such might be possible, but nothing that has been quantified to a degree that surpasses scientific scrutiny - even if the reason for such actions remain unknown.

So, yeah, I'm open-minded about it - however skeptical.

The brain cannot create kinetic energy in objects because energy has to be transfered, and energy cannot be transferred without some sort of direct connection, such as a collision. Magnetic and Large Gravitational fields can do this as well, but the brain has little to none of both that would be significant to be able to say, lift a pencil or really anything at all.

In theory, thoughts have mass (look up noetic science), but a single thought will do very little. However, if you compile a large group of people and get them all thinking about exactly the same thing, you may achieve more concrete results. I still seriously doubt, however, that even the world thinking about moving a boulder will achieve anything at all. The theory goes that this "collective thinking" is more prone to bring order from chaos more than anything else. Of course, this is just what Dan Brown said in his new book, so it's probably full of holes...

I remain skeptical.

I do not beleive in this REALLY, but

I learned the other day that if you shined a flashlight at, say, a balloon, it would move a TINY bit. Like way tiny. My chemistry teacher told us this.

You can also see energy actually flowing out of people, as well, under perfectly dark situations. It's a truly tiny amount of power, generated from the use of ATP in the body, but it remains nonetheless.

Also, welcome, LDS, to the extended discussion forums. Beware the r/s forum!

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Originally Posted by Mario92

You can also see energy actually flowing out of people, as well, under perfectly dark situations. It's a truly tiny amount of power, generated from the use of ATP in the body, but it remains nonetheless.

Also, welcome, LDS, to the extended discussion forums. Beware the r/s forum!

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Just so happens that you will not see me much here.

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Originally Posted by Mario92

In theory, thoughts have mass (look up noetic science), but a single thought will do very little. However, if you compile a large group of people and get them all thinking about exactly the same thing, you may achieve more concrete results. I still seriously doubt, however, that even the world thinking about moving a boulder will achieve anything at all. The theory goes that this "collective thinking" is more prone to bring order from chaos more than anything else. Of course, this is just what Dan Brown said in his new book, so it's probably full of holes...

I remain skeptical.

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Oh my God I need to read it, I'm awaiting it in the mail.

I think it's highly unlikely, or we would have perfected it or made amplifiers and shit already.

I'd believe the phenomenon would be possible if and only if the physical
universe is built on top of some form of "mind", conscious or not. If that
foundation can be touched by conscious thought, a real-world effect could
possibly result from it. Telekinesis, wishful thinking, ritual magic, prayer and
what have you, would all essentially boil down into modes of trying to achieve
an outcome by utilizing this principle.

If that's the case.

No idea if it's possible, it would be cool but i'm not going to start believing in it. Maybe in the next millions of years of evolving more we could do it, who knows. Time is our only answer.

I'm open to the idea of it. Do I believe a lot of what people say about it? No. But Dean Radin's work leaves me to believe that perhaps there is something grounded in science going on here, that we just don't understand. Don't forget, quantum mechanics is a really, really intricate field that could possibly explain a lot of things. Maybe even, someday, God.

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Originally Posted by A Roxxor

The brain cannot create kinetic energy in objects because energy has to be transfered, and energy cannot be transferred without some sort of direct connection, such as a collision. Magnetic and Large Gravitational fields can do this as well, but the brain has little to none of both that would be significant to be able to say, lift a pencil or really anything at all.

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Are you familiar with the 'Schroedinger's Cat' thought experiment? If so, what do you think about it, and its possibility?

If not, at crash course into the theory is that:

Given the implications of quantum mechanics - and the idea of a 'holographic universe', and David Bohm's Implicate and Explicate Order theory - it is quite possible that there is no "physical reality", universe exists merely as a system of waves. It is the perceptions of our consciousnesses, born inside of this wave, that give the universe the illusion of physicality, and our 'mind's are what interprets this perception of these waves as a static/physical reality. Should this be the case, the question is posed that it is the observers' assessment of a situation that manifests a certain outcome.

Particularly: If a cat is put into a box and a poison is released, the cat exists in a superposition of both dead and alive (a waveform), until it is actually observed, in which case it is the observer's observation which collapses the waveform and manifests the true state of the cat, upon opening the box.

Sure, it's just a theory (though well-developed, if you follow the surrounding literature), but if such a thing is the true state of the universe - as hinted by the non-locality of electrons (that their position cannot be truly determined until they are directly observed), then the 'interconnectedness" of all things is definitely possible. And if that's the case, then the ability of a mind to exert influence upon the physical would be possible. Even if it's micro-PK, it still counts as PK. If a mind can influence something as small as the true state of an electron, then it's possible that - with time - it could come that the mind would be able to develop the ability to influence things on a macro-scale.

At least, that's my take on it.

No, it isn't possible. The point about quantum physics is that it is inherently random. When you observe the cat, it has an exact probability of either being dead or alive. The mind does not and cannot influence this; it only observes it. Think of it in terms of a dice being thrown with your eyes closed. Before you open them, as far as you are concerned, it could be anything. And then when you do open them, you find out what the number is. But you don't influence the process according to your will at all.

With regards to telekinesis in general... no, it isn't possible. No experiment has ever observed this happening, and there have been relatively huge projects (like PEAR) which have given very obvious null results. The fact that there is such a huge incentive to actually perform an experiment to confirm such a phenomenon makes it seem very unlikely that it is possible. There is also no reason to believe that it should be possible. Even with the aid of technology we generally can't make objects move at a distance without touching them.

Why would you want to anyway? You can move things with your mind already; use your arms.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Why would you want to anyway? You can move things with your mind already; use your arms.

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Perhaps it can be usefull saving lives? instead of personal gain. Being able to telekinesis would be pretty usefull in the world today if you use it in the right ways. it's far FAR more usefull then using your arms.

Well yes, okay, it could actually be pretty useful in those kind of situations.

Unfortunately it's still not possible.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Well yes, okay, it could actually be pretty useful in those kind of situations.

Unfortunately it's still not possible.

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Probably not, but who knows about a million years from now what is possible and not possible.

The laws of physics haven't changed for 14 billion.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but perhaps the laws of physics do not need to change. Perhaps, humans will develop incredible mental capacities that, to some extent, their thoughts can develop enough energy to move certain objects.

Thoughts don't generate energy in any sense. The body generates energy via respiring carbohydrates, which is required to power the process of thought. And even then there's no mechanism by which we or in fact anything else can do localised work from a distance.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Thoughts don't generate energy in any sense. The body generates energy via respiring carbohydrates, which is required to power the process of thought. And even then there's no mechanism by which we or in fact anything else can do localised work from a distance.

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Yeah, I know, but still...take a look at noetic science, which essentially claims that thoughts have mass, and even the power to shape certain aspects of the world; the power to draw order from chaos. Perhaps...

Not going to happen in our lifetimes, at any rate.

Thoughts don't have mass. The gravitational field caused by the entire human body is billions of billions of billions times weaker than that caused by the Earth.

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Originally Posted by Xei

No, it isn't possible. The point about quantum physics is that it is inherently random. When you observe the cat, it has an exact probability of either being dead or alive. The mind does not and cannot influence this; it only observes it. Think of it in terms of a dice being thrown with your eyes closed. Before you open them, as far as you are concerned, it could be anything. And then when you do open them, you find out what the number is. But you don't influence the process according to your will at all.

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Look into the Global Consciousness Project. Scientist have proven through quantum mechanics a global psychic energy. Nothing is truly random or chaotic and is influenced by consciousness on some level. It's been proven that conscious expectations have an affect on a dice roll.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

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If you want to get more into this check out Holographic Paradigm by David Bohm and Karl Pribram. It's still a theory, but very interesting and correlates to what spirituality and mystics have been saying for so long.

The theory is that the universe is a hologram, but not in the literal since. This universe is a hologram that reflects your thoughts/expectations/beliefs about it.

Everything exists as one unified field of information/knowledge/consciousness but the universe as we know it is a simulation of parts of it.

At the sub-atomic level, reality behaves in accordance with the expectation of the observer. This is important because everything in the universe is made of these sub-atomic particles; information and energy, fluctuating in a sea of information and energy. When you change the information field that an atom is in, you change the atom. And our feelings are what change those fields.

This is why mass media and propaganda is so dangerous. If you switch your brain off and subscribe to the mainstream media illusion, you are literally creating their reality for them. You are being used to create what others want - and your creation becomes somebody else's.

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Why would you want to anyway? You can move things with your mind already; use your arms.

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lol


Like bill hicks once said: As Bill Hicks once said: All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

The only way to really understand this is to experience it and one of the easiest ways of doing that is by taking certain hallucinogenic drugs to force your consciousness past the illusion.

Despite all the wishful thinking in this thread, telekinesis is much like an other "psychic phenomenon" is completely unproven and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that is possible. Obviously, as with everything else, there is a small chance that it possible, merely due to the fact that we know so little about the universe. However, until the day that it is proven to be at least slightly plausible we may aswell accept that it is absolute bollacks.

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Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Look into the Global Consciousness Project. Scientist have proven through quantum mechanics a global psychic energy. Nothing is truly random or chaotic and is influenced by consciousness on some level. It's been proven that conscious expectations have an affect on a dice roll.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

------------

If you want to get more into this check out Holographic Paradigm by David Bohm and Karl Pribram. It's still a theory, but very interesting and correlates to what spirituality and mystics have been saying for so long.

The theory is that the universe is a hologram, but not in the literal since. This universe is a hologram that reflects your thoughts/expectations/beliefs about it.

Everything exists as one unified field of information/knowledge/consciousness but the universe as we know it is a simulation of parts of it.

At the sub-atomic level, reality behaves in accordance with the expectation of the observer. This is important because everything in the universe is made of these sub-atomic particles; information and energy, fluctuating in a sea of information and energy. When you change the information field that an atom is in, you change the atom. And our feelings are what change those fields.

This is why mass media and propaganda is so dangerous. If you switch your brain off and subscribe to the mainstream media illusion, you are literally creating their reality for them. You are being used to create what others want - and your creation becomes somebody else's.






lol


Like bill hicks once said: As Bill Hicks once said: All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

The only way to really understand this is to experience it and one of the easiest ways of doing that is by taking certain hallucinogenic drugs to force your consciousness past the illusion.

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No, independent mathematicians have looked at the GCP's data and there is nothing noteworthy. The GCP don't even have a hypothesis for what the data might do; it's junk science.

There's no evidence that reality changes according to what we expect or desire. Two basic observations which support the negation of the hypothesis: people are sometimes surprised, and stuff sometimes happens to people that they don't want.

We are not all one consciousness, consciousness is the sum of one's experiences and I don't experience anything that happens to anybody else. I experience what happens to me. Hence, a distinct consciousness, my own, and when I die it will cease to exist.

(Note that I have no reason to want to believe this, I'm forced to believe what the evidence tells me; you however have a massive incentive to believe your version because it gives you a justification for denial of your own mortality).

You think the Holographic paradigm is junk science?.. There's scientific evidence to support this but I guess you'll ignore that too.

anything that has anything to do with mysticism ideas or theories you dismiss right away.

mortality? These theories don't have anything to do with death, their just theories and you seem to get real offended on these kinds of topics...so who is the one in denial now LOL

I dismiss nothing right away. I am open to any idea. Just provide me with evidence.

Saying 'there is evidence' doesn't cut it. I've read that the data clearly shows that intention has no effect.

And you were the person who first mentioned mortality. So if it's a deviation then that's your fault, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Xei

There's no evidence that reality changes according to what we expect or desire.

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Yea it does, look into the placebo effect..you can heal your own body if you really believe it or expect it.

In the placebo effect, a patient is given an inert sugar pill, told that it may improve his/her condition, but not told that it is in fact inert. Such an intervention may cause the patient to believe the treatment will change his/her condition; and this belief does indeed sometimes have a therapeutic effect, causing the patient's condition to improve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

This is how affirmations and subliminal messages/images work. The more you believe something subconsciously, the more it becomes true in reality.

Firstly, the placebo effect is something of a contentious issue. Some researchers think that the brain's expectation of healing can cause physiological changes which actually do aid the healing process, but others think that it is simply caused do the patients deluding themselves because of their positive expectations of the treatment.

But secondly, and most importantly; your inductive step is completely flawed. It wouldn't be particularly surprising if the workings of your brain could have an effect on your body, because the brain is attached to the body. The whole purpose of the brain is to make the body do things. That's completely different from the whole of reality, to which your brain is not causally connected.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Some researchers think that the brain's expectation of healing can cause physiological changes which actually do aid the healing process, but others think that it is simply caused do the patients deluding themselves because of their positive expectations of the treatment.

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That doesn't make sense.

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Some researchers think that the brain's expectation of healing can cause physiological changes which actually do aid the healing process

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but others think that it is simply caused do the patients deluding themselves because of their positive expectations of the treatment.

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You just said the same thing in a different way.

From Mr. Emoto's work we're provided with hard evidence, that human vibrational energy, thoughts, words, ideas and music, affect the molecular structure of water, the very same water that comprises over seventy percent of a mature human body and covers the same amount of our planet. Water is the very source of all life on this planet, the quality and integrity are vitally important to all forms of life.

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You just said the same thing in a different way.

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...what the hell? :l

Real physiological changes due to brain.

False feeling of changes due to delusions.

They're completely different.

And if you read about that study you'll find that Mr. Emoto went through all the pictures and threw out all the ones which didn't match the thought and only chose the ones which looked like they did match the thought.

He even admitted himself that it wasn't science. And that's hard evidence..?

Also humans don't have 'vibrational energy'. Can you define what is meant by vibrational energy? And water molecules only have a single possible structure.