Obama didn't bow?

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11-17-2009, 01:26 AM
Alric

Obama didn't bow?

Obama says he didn't bow to the king of Saudi Arabia. However Its pretty obvious that he bowed to the emperor of Japan.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...d303970c-popup

I really don't have a problem with him doing a respectful bow, however that is a bit extreme. Any lower and he would have had to go down onto his knees and do one of them sitting bows.

If he is going to bow to anyone, it shouldn't be more of a head bob. Anyway, if you watch the video of him bowing to the emperor of japan, it looks a lot like the bow he did to the king of Saudi Arabia. I am not sure you can really buy the story that he wasn't bowing, when you compare the two.
11-17-2009, 03:12 AM
Xei

I don't understand what the problem is. Are you saying America shouldn't feel the need to be polite to other countries? :l
11-17-2009, 03:16 AM
Dannon Oneironaut

I don't know if bowing is as customary in Saudi arabia as it is in Japan. Everyone bows to each other in Japan no matter which class one is in. And this being the Emperor who is descended from a God and all. Is the king of Saudi Arbia descended from a god? But he did bow very very low. and isn't Obama supposed to be the son of God or something? Why should he be bowing?
11-17-2009, 08:21 AM
Licity

Bowing isn't really as much of custom in Saudi Arabia I don't think... In Japan, the bow is widespread. To not bow to the Japanese emperor would be like not shaking hands with the President.
11-17-2009, 08:25 AM
Alric

The problem most people have with it, is that it is far past being polite. No one even remotely on the same level would ever bow like that, even in japan. Which is the message he sends, that the US present is far below the level of emperor.
11-17-2009, 08:29 AM
Alric

Also, its the fact that they lied about it. Saying that he never did it the first time, then he just goes and does it again.
11-17-2009, 08:39 AM
Armistice

I have read that in Asian culture, it is customary for someone who is of lower "level" to bow deeper than the person who's a higher "level"

Ex: a student would bow lower than a teacher

It is a little too low? Yah. Does it really matter? No. The bow should only be a little deeper just to show respect. I'm sure Obama was just going off the typical stereotype of deep bows, and is made to look like an idiot now. Wah. Get over it

As for Middle Eastern custom, hand shakes are fine. I've never heard of a Mid Eastern bowing :?
11-17-2009, 08:42 AM
Invader

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

Obama says he didn't bow to the king of Saudi Arabia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

it looks a lot like the bow he did to the king of Saudi Arabia.

I do not understand.
11-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Alric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invader

I do not understand.

He did two nearly identical bows. He claims the first one wasn't a bow, and admits the second one was a bow but was just meant to be respectful. So you can believe the first one really wasn't a bow and just happened to look look identical to what he considers a bow. Or you can believe he lied about it. Which if you think its just a silly thing, then you got to ask, why is he lying about something so silly?
11-17-2009, 11:32 AM
Marvo

The fuck is wrong with you? Christ.
11-17-2009, 01:28 PM
khh

Why exactly does it matter if Obama bowed? Or how low?
11-17-2009, 02:02 PM
Taosaur

Quote:

Originally Posted by khh

Why exactly does it matter if Obama bowed? Or how low?

CUZ HEZ ANTICHRIS!!! IZ IN BIBEL!
11-17-2009, 02:10 PM
Xei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

The problem most people have with it, is that it is far past being polite. No one even remotely on the same level would ever bow like that, even in japan. Which is the message he sends, that the US present is far below the level of emperor.

Which is of course wrong because Americans are the master race.

Dolt.
11-17-2009, 03:02 PM
ClouD

Obama says stupid things to satisfy stupid Americans?
11-17-2009, 03:20 PM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Which is of course wrong because Americans are the master race.

Dolt.

He was arguing in favor of equality, not American superiority.
11-17-2009, 03:36 PM
Scatterbrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

He was arguing in favor of equality, not American superiority.

Does it really matter? How is Obama being humble going to affect America negatively?

You still have a bigger army and more nukes than anyone else so...
11-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Does it really matter? How is Obama being humble going to affect America negatively?

You still have a bigger army and more nukes than anyone else so...

We don't want the world thinking the man with his finger on the trigger of all of that is a pussy. They might get the "paper tiger" impression Bill Clinton gave Al Qaeda.
11-17-2009, 05:20 PM
Xaqaria

To me its the same old thing with Obama. He's pretty good at telling everyone exactly what they want to hear. He bows when he's with foreign leaders because his desire to be superficially pleasing to his company is more than his self respect.

If he honestly respected himself, his country and his foreign hosts, he would do as they do, no more and no less. I can't be sure that it wasn't just a mistimed photo, but the emperor appears to be giving a slight nod and a hand shake while obama is worrying so much if he's offending anyone that he's staring at his knee caps.
11-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Xei

Quote:

He was arguing in favor of equality, not American superiority.

They were his hosts.
11-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Alric

Its not even about him showing he is strong or anything. Its about having self respect, and him representing the US. We want a message of being independent, not that we are here to serve them. The US president is a servant of Japan, so why even act like it?

Though the big issue, is that he is doing it to everyone. He knew everyone got upset the last time he did it, but he did it again on purpose. You have to wonder why.

Though you are right. Him increasing the debt, and trying to move the country further towards socialism is far worse, and way more important issues. Only reason I bring it up, is because I found it interesting that he lied about doing it, then did it again.
11-17-2009, 10:56 PM
Kraftwerk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I don't know if bowing is as customary in Saudi arabia as it is in Japan. Everyone bows to each other in Japan no matter which class one is in. And this being the Emperor who is descended from a God and all. Is the king of Saudi Arbia descended from a god? But he did bow very very low. and isn't Obama supposed to be the son of God or something? Why should he be bowing?

Indeed. Hes the messiah :p

Anyways, I think the slight customary bow is fine, but he bowed a little to low for my taste to that emperor.
11-18-2009, 01:06 AM
Invader

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

not that we are here to serve them

But we are there to serve them. We are here to serve everyone. We
exists to exact justice and to defend freedom for everyone! HUZZAH!
11-18-2009, 01:30 AM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invader

But we are there to serve them. We are here to serve everyone. We
exists to exact justice and to defend freedom for everyone! HUZZAH!

No way. Screw all non-Americans. They don't count. Why are we even talking about them?
11-18-2009, 01:41 AM
Invader

Quote:

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Screw all non-Americans.

The lack of context makes this quote so win that it makes my brains hurt.

It should be sigged.
11-18-2009, 01:44 AM
juroara

bowing is a sign of respect, not a sign of servitude. Obama is simply trying to do what is the most culturally accepted way of showing respect.
11-18-2009, 01:44 AM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invader

The lack of context makes this quote so win that it makes my brains hurt.

It should be sigged.

Oh shit. You cheated! Don't do that to me!!!
11-18-2009, 04:05 PM
Dannon Oneironaut

The emperor of Japan is not the Prime Minister of Japan. It is customary to kiss the ass of fake royalty. Like the queen of England. She has no power, she is just a figurehead. Same with the emperor of Japan. He isn't bowing to the prime minister of Japan like that.
These figurehead Monarchs are empty figureheads of bygone times. As such all they have is their hoonor and respect we give them, they have no power. It is a custom and a tradition, but that is all. Obama did exactly what he was supposed to do and it was appropriate. If he didn't bow that low before the emperor it would be rude.
11-18-2009, 06:05 PM
Alric

No it wouldn't, since no one else bows that low to him either. Actually someone posted a video of that on the web, of over 50 people from important offices around the world meeting with the emperor, and not a single one of them bowed to him. Its not normal, or expected. There was also people saying that the news in japan refused to show the photos of it, since they were even embarrassed by how the president acted.

Also that definitely isn't a custom the US has ever followed. The average US citizen wouldn't even bow to any of the royalty like that, nor would they be expected to.
11-18-2009, 06:47 PM
Marvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

No it wouldn't, since no one else bows that low to him either. Actually someone posted a video of that on the web, of over 50 people from important offices around the world meeting with the emperor, and not a single one of them bowed to him. Its not normal, or expected. There was also people saying that the news in japan refused to show the photos of it, since they were even embarrassed by how the president acted.

Also that definitely isn't a custom the US has ever followed. The average US citizen wouldn't even bow to any of the royalty like that, nor would they be expected to.

Having a black president isn't a custom that the US ever followed. Shut up.
11-18-2009, 07:03 PM
Alric

Oh so sensitive. I have to wonder why some people think its silly, but then they get so offended by someone bringing it up?

Obviously they see a problem with it, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to defend it and get so upset about someone bringing it up.

Probably has to do with the fact, if its silly it makes Obama look even worse. Because why would the president of the US lie to the public over something inconsequential? It makes you wonder, if he is going to lie about the small pointless stuff, what important things are he lying about?
11-18-2009, 07:07 PM
Xei

Quote:

Also that definitely isn't a custom the US has ever followed. The average US citizen wouldn't even bow to any of the royalty like that, nor would they be expected to.

Then get out of their goddamn country and go back to America.
11-18-2009, 07:11 PM
Alric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xei

Then get out of their goddamn country and go back to America.

Why? If they are fine with it, why shouldn't you be? They expect to be treated with respect, but none of them ever expect to be bowed to by people outside their country.
11-18-2009, 07:19 PM
Xei

So if they don't expect good relations, you shouldn't bother to engage in good relations?

You realise such a mentality has a large amount to do with what's wrong with the world?
11-18-2009, 07:25 PM
Alric

That is not what I said at all. Its not expected because its not customary or appropriate to the situation. Making the emperor feel awkward by doing an over exaggerated low bow has nothing to do with being respectful. It shows a lack of knowledge for their custom. And an attitude that our own customs don't matter, and just makes him look weak and submissive.
11-18-2009, 07:27 PM
Universal Mind

Maybe Obama should have kissed the emperor's shoes and called him Lord. Then shined his shoes and sucked his toes. It would have made the relations even better.
11-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Xei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

That is not what I said at all. Its not expected because its not customary or appropriate to the situation. Making the emperor feel awkward by doing an over exaggerated low bow has nothing to do with being respectful. It shows a lack of knowledge for their custom. And an attitude that our own customs don't matter, and just makes him look weak and submissive.

Are you Japanese? From what I've read it was received as being respectful.

I don't think it makes him look weak either. I mean, what is this, Captain Obvious time? You're the only remaining superpower on Earth with overwhelming military and industrial strength. Nothing he can do could possibly make him look weak. As a result he looks humble.
11-18-2009, 08:09 PM
Alric

That isn't entirely true. We do have the biggest military, however we have no industry in this country(atleast compared to what we once had). Economically the US is in horrible shape, and we are the largest only in the size of our debt.
11-18-2009, 08:23 PM
Xei

Fair enough, although actually the UK is on a par with the US as having the largest debt to GDP ratio in the developed world. And the UK is the only Western country still in recession. We're even more fucked to be honest.
11-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Alric

The US has been in a depression for years and still is. They keep claiming it was only a recession but everyone knows the truth. And they been claiming we have moved back out of it and are doing better, but all data points to the fact that its still getting worse.

Its not a competition though. Most western countries are having huge problems economically because they follow the practice of 'borrow today, and ignore the future and let someone else worry about it.'
11-18-2009, 10:39 PM
Universal Mind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

Most western countries are having huge problems economically because they follow the practice of 'borrow today, and ignore the future and let someone else worry about it.'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...en-Brother.jpg
11-19-2009, 01:18 AM
Indecent Exposure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvo

Having a black president isn't a custom that the US ever followed. Shut up.

Are you being serious? Sombody posts a decent point about the topic at hand that disproves what the previous poster has to say and you reply with this? You honestly don't belong in extended discussion, fuck off to senseless banter if that's all you have to offer.

Considering he harks on about improving international relations and understanding eachother's customs and traditions you'd certainly expect he'd have it all worked out. But it doesn't really matter does it, he'llmake a pretty sppech about change soon and make everybody really happy. Yay!
11-19-2009, 03:47 AM
juroara

Alric, I don't think you get it

Leaders of the world, even if they are useless and powerless figureheads, still represent their nation. Obama represents America when he is in a room with other world leaders.

what you and I do doesn't matter, we aren't the representatives of America
11-19-2009, 04:48 AM
Dannon Oneironaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by juroara

Alric, I don't think you get it

Leaders of the world, even if they are useless and powerless figureheads, still represent their nation. Obama represents America when he is in a room with other world leaders.

what you and I do doesn't matter, we aren't the representatives of America

Who cares?!!! All the leaders are bullshit anyway. These leaders don't represent us! They represent multi-national corporations and centralized banks! They are all trying to form alliances to get the last of the world's nonrenewable resources. Obama represents the one world government. Obama is doing the same as Bush did but with charm where Bush had no charm or tact.

Do you realize that in Japan they don't shake hands? What if this discussion was in Japan and they were saying that the Emperor's handshake wasn't firm enough? Come on! Do you really think that the U.S. should try to prove that they are better than other countries on diplomatic visits? Do you really believe that the U.S. is better than other countries? Japan is pretty damn cool. I considered moving there if I could get a work visa. Everyone had healthcare, there was virtually no crime or no homeless. Everyone was very polite. And they love the U.S. over there.

Obama realizes that the world is getting to small for separate countries, for better or for worse. It is inevitable. The one world government, the new world order, it is all a reality now. Obama is here to bring it on. Whether or not you agree or disagree it is a reality.

what really concerns me is that all the multinational corporations and the centralized banks are currently pulling off the greatest con game of all and moving all the wealth upwards. And I can't figure out which side Obama is on. On one hand he hasn't changed anything that Bush did except with a nice face, on the other hand he is just one man having to contend with the all the house of representatives, the congress, and the Senate, and the Republicans and Democrats, and the tense crazy clusterfuck of the whole rest of the World, and is into keeping the internet free and open and unregulated. It seems like he has a heart, but maybe that is just part of the disguise. Like Nostradamus said, the Antichrist will come preaching change and hope in times of War and will quickly rise to be the highest power in the world and then rule over the whole world (united nations).

But maybe Nostradamus was a Christian and saw that Obama was the president during 2012 when everything seems to get out of hand and change or whatever will happen and Nostradamus interpreted Obama as the anti-christ from his own narrow mind and beliefs. Or maybe Nostradamus was just crazy and didn't see shit.

But if Obama is the Antichrist then according to the prophecies it the Christ consciousness will return to all the people and usher in an era of peace. So, there is much more serious stuff to be thinking about than whether or not he bowed to the Emperor of Japan.
11-19-2009, 08:14 PM
Marvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by imran_p

Are you being serious? Sombody posts a decent point about the topic at hand that disproves what the previous poster has to say and you reply with this? You honestly don't belong in extended discussion, fuck off to senseless banter if that's all you have to offer.

You guys are discussing whether the most powerful man in world bowed too far before the emperor of Japan. This thread honestly doesn't belong in extended discussion, unless extended discussion means discussing pointless things such as this situation extensively.

And I stand by my post. The mentallity being instituted here, is that the president did something that is unusual compared to "normal" presidential behaviour and thus it was wrong. This kind of mentallity is exactly what makes so many people afraid to ever go out and do something special.

About him lying, I would compare it to somebody doing something, then realising they probably shouldn't have done that since people won't accept it, and then deny it. Then later when they feel they're ready to take the pressure that performing this action entails, they do it and stand by it. Kind of like a homosexual who is not quite yet ready to come out, but does something that indicates that he/she is homosexual, yet denies it, and then a year later he/she comes out, because he/she is ready. Your president came out of the respectful-bowing-closet, so to speak.
11-20-2009, 05:47 PM
Alric

So you think he will continue to do it, to everyone else he meets then? The actions of the president does matter. You might think its just being respectful, but a lot of people do not. The problem isn't that its just unusual. If he did something unusual and it was an improvement then people would be happy, however many consider his unusual actions to be a step in the wrong direction.

As for why its on this board, its because its about politics and is apparently interesting enough that it got many replies.
11-20-2009, 06:16 PM
slash112

Bowing was a sign of respect. Ok, so he bowed to far, so what? Maybe he wasn't sure if his sign of respect was getting across because maybe he didn't know how far he was supposed to bow, so he went further down so his respect was noticeable for sure.

That is exactly what I would end up doing. Although... the reason I would end up doing it is because I am very unsure about myself and the things I do... I'm sure he is not like that. But still... You cannot judge a person badly because he is polite and respectful.
11-20-2009, 09:45 PM
Marvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alric

So you think he will continue to do it, to everyone else he meets then?

Bowing to an emperor who deserves such respect, yes, that is pretty much the standard that your president just set. However, bowing before royal persons, such as the queen of England or Denmark isn't a custom that anybody really follows. You simply shake hands, maybe a subtle nod.
I think it's up to every other powerful person how they greet other people. Your president chose to do a respectful bow, his predecessors only shook hands. Of course, everything he does changes his image. It's up to him if he think greeting in a certain way is dangerous or not to his image. I guess he misjudged.

Quote:

The actions of the president does matter. You might think its just being respectful, but a lot of people do not. The problem isn't that its just unusual. If he did something unusual and it was an improvement then people would be happy, however many consider his unusual actions to be a step in the wrong direction.

I haven't really seen too much of an uproar about Obama's unusual customs, but what with me living in Denmark, I probably won't hear too much about it.
Are people in the US really that critical of how their president behaves?

Quote:

As for why its on this board, its because its about politics and is apparently interesting enough that it got many replies.

I don't feel like going in this direction, but the majority of the posts in this thread are people pointing out how pointless the situation is. I suppose this did make it's way into the media though.
11-20-2009, 11:24 PM
Dannon Oneironaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvo

I haven't really seen too much of an uproar about Obama's unusual customs, but what with me living in Denmark, I probably won't hear too much about it.
Are people in the US really that critical of how their president behaves?
.

Well many Americans that like Sarah Palin are scared to death of Obama. They haven't traveled to Europe and don't know that America is not as free as Europe is. All they know is what they've been taught in school and what Fox news says. They are not living in the real world. They have this delusion that America is better than other countries. Obama seems unamerican to them because he is intelligent, and people are afraid of s leader being more intelligent than them. And also because he lived in Indonesia and he has a Muslim name and he is Black. The U.S.A. is very different than Denmark. In fact, compared to Denmark the U.S. is backwards. There is nothing like Copenhagen here.

I remember George Bush kissed the pope's ring. Now was there an uproar on these forums then? I don't know.

yes it is traditional to kiss the Pope's ring. But what it means is that you give all your power to the Pope and you follow whatever he says because you think he is infallible. That goes a little too far. I mean, the previous Pope was in Hitler's side! That isn't the same as bowing to the Emperor of Japan. What kind of message does that send?
11-21-2009, 02:12 AM
Armistice

Guess what else nObama didn't do

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...f/image001.jpg

How un-American. Oh wait... we don't know his nationality because his birth cert is "missing". WAFJ :?

He should be impeached
11-21-2009, 04:11 AM
Dannon Oneironaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistice

Guess what else nObama didn't do

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...f/image001.jpg

How un-American. Oh wait... we don't know his nationality because his birth cert is "missing". WAFJ :?

He should be impeached

He is actually a space alien! :banana:

But seriously, he will become the first president of the world, that is why he is unamerican.
11-21-2009, 08:07 AM
wasup

I think it's funny how on one side everyone thinks two inches higher and he would have been disrespectful and insulting Japan and entirely ruining relations between Japan and the U.S. and on the other side you think two inches lower and we would all be soon bowing down to Japan as everyone thought we were submissive pussies who can't fight back. He's just fucking bowing for christ sakes put away your rulers.
11-21-2009, 05:27 PM
NeoSioType

I believe for diplomatic reasons Obama has ulterior motives for his deep bow, otherwise I don't think he would have bowed that deeply.
11-21-2009, 09:42 PM
Marvo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoSioType

I believe for diplomatic reasons Obama has ulterior motives for his deep bow, otherwise I don't think he would have bowed that deeply.

You don't understand. If the japanese emperor is anything like the queen of Denmark, then the way Obama treats him doesn't matter. You don't earn a country's respect by treating their royalties well.
11-22-2009, 04:56 AM
ClouD

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasup

I think it's funny how on one side everyone thinks two inches higher and he would have been disrespectful and insulting Japan and entirely ruining relations between Japan and the U.S. and on the other side you think two inches lower and we would all be soon bowing down to Japan as everyone thought we were submissive pussies who can't fight back. He's just fucking bowing for christ sakes put away your rulers.

+1
11-22-2009, 06:56 AM
Dannon Oneironaut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvo

You don't understand. If the japanese emperor is anything like the queen of Denmark, then the way Obama treats him doesn't matter. You don't earn a country's respect by treating their royalties well.

Japan might be different than Denmark. They still love the Emperor.

Do not forget that The U.S.A. was the only country that used nuclear bombs on another country and that country was Japan, and since then we have forbidded them from having a military. I doubt the message sent is that the U.S. is a bunch of pussies who can't fight back. I think the message was more meant to be, "Sorry that we run around bullying all the other countries and I am sorry we nuked you. There isn't much else I can do to apologize enough to you and your people so I will bow."