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Supreme court just ruled in favor of corporations to give unlimited campaign contributions..
As if our government wasn't already sold out enough
heres a ballsy comment from keith olbermann
(I don't like this liberal douche but what he says in this comment is dead on)
lol its funny to see the mainstream media finally admit we do live in a fascist corporate run government.
What is your view on this, everyone.
That's not going to last. The president just introduced this: http://my.barackobama.com/FairElections
This can not last, or else the US will go very Republican very fast, which will cause the US to spiral down hill really really fast.
You actually believe he will reverse that?....ahahahahaha obama is the biggest corporate puppet since bush and cheney.....
If anything he will protect this supreme court decision and just say alot of useless rhetoric condemning it to make his sheeplike followers happy.
Obama is bought out, a sell out like all other sell out politicians, don't believe a word their scumsucking mouths utter.
After all most of obama's campaign contributions were corporate, why wouldn't he protect corporations especially when his dem buddies are going for re-election this nov, how nice it would be for them and their corporate buddies to funnel more cash into their campaign then their REd counterparts (repubs).
Listen dude, forget obama, forget clinton, forget them all...they are all corporate cock suckers, they lie and deceive, ITS THEIR JOB TO LIE!
and its your job as an american to filter through the bullshit and stop falling for their pipe dreams of change and free healthcare and all of this socialist utopia nonsense which will never work.
You're making massive assumptions about the man and his ideas here, in fact about a lot of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
And it isn't very convincing.
Also free healthcare isn't a pipe dream. I can vouch for that, considering I get it.
Ron Paul is a douchebag, get over it!Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
Obama doesn't even talk to lobbyists, I"m confused by your ignorance. :?
And you do realize that every civilized country other than the US has free health care working right now, don't you? Your sense of credibility amuses me :lol:
theres no such thing as free healthcare, idiots.
and ron paul would make a better pres than this corporate puppet in chief.
obama doesn't talk to lobbyists is the most absurd comment ever written in human history...just wow, he is surrounded by lobbyists like bush was.
I've never seen such sheer ignorance in my whole life.
yea, free healthcare is possible, so who the fuck pays for surgery and doctors visits, who pays for the pills, god?
get real NOTHING IS FREE IN A WORLD BASED ON MONEY!
also i never mentioned ron paul, why did you bring him up, because you cant face the facts and like to drift from the topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
But seriously. We don't pay any money, and we get healthcare. Same for every citizen of my country.
I mean, that's just the way it is, man.
This isn't an opinion.
There's not much I can say here. It.. it's just how it is. I have free healthcare. I am not American.
You've never been outside of the US, have you? :(
Don't be so suicidal man.Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
yes i lived in italy and while the patient doesn't pay anything upfront they do pay a tax so, its not free you nitwits...NOTHING IS FREE
free healthcare is a fantasy, come back to reality.
most 'free healthcare' systems are going bankrupt including france, italy, england and many more
why? because they actually believe you can give services for free and not have negative consequences.
If I don't have a job and dont pay taxes as a result I still get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
f-f-f-f-freeeeeeee
thats not free, someone pays a tax for your services.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
wakeup child, this isn't the disney channel, this is life and if you want something you or someone WILL PAY FOR IT.
don't give me that free nonsense, its a lie and anyone who believes it is a complete idiot.
Someone paying for it somewhere doesn't mean it isn't free for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
I get it free. Even if I'm a NEET my whole life
Why are you so negative about everything? It makes any opinion of yours coated in a whole feeling of weird rampantness. I don't like it. You talk like you're on fire or something and you've got a big frown.
:(
forget i said anything, obviously u believe that when someone else pays for something its free, well THATS NOT TRUE.
When a mom or dad purchases a car and hands it to the kid, is it free? NO
it might be for the kid but it was NEVER FREE...
god people are stupid.
BTW
BACK ON TOPIC RIGHT NOW IVE HAD ENOUGH FREE HEALTHCARE TALK NOW SHUT UP AND LEAVE THE THREAD AND GET A LIFE.
I want to know your opinions of the godamn video and topic, 1 more word of healthcare or ron paul and this thread is DONE.
You're sounding like a fool. Noone will have a meaningful conversation with you, because you've blinded yourself with anger and ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
Back On Topic Godamnit!
do you know how to read?
(and yes i do talk with passion, a burning fire, so what? im passionate about what i say because I am 100% behind it, if you don't believe what you say don't bother saying it and you're right that im angry, im angry at brainwashed naive people like you who wouldn't see the light if it was shun inside their retina with the brightness of 1000 red giant stars.)
It's all very well to be passionate about something, but if that means you just shout down and insult whoever you're talking to, noone's gonna want to talk to you now are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
also "a burning fire"
lol
This thread isn't going back on topic until you calm down and talk like a grown up, instead of a silly teenager.
DUDE, can you get back on the topic of the supreme court ruling that corporations can dump unlimited funds into politicians campaigns.
THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM and i would appreciate it if you would:
A) discuss it
B) STOP TALKING ABOUT OFF TOPIC STUFF
C) all of the above.
If you cannot follow these instructions, just leave the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
It doesn't feel like a very serious problem if we have you just ranting like a child now though does it.
you can start by stopping your overuse of caps lock.
That's pretty fucked up. The whole corporate support thing, that is. I don't understand the logic behind the Supreme Court's decision. I mean, I'm not a fan of the American political system, but Jesus Christ how can you expect any result other than than the candidate buddying up with the largest corporation winning? I understand that having virtually unlimited resources for campaigning doesn't necessitate an automatic victory, but it's sure a hell of an advantage.
I agree. But nothing really surprises me anymore.
yup yup, it seems the corporatocracy/fascist oligarchical government rules again.
Personally, I think Carôusoul is the one with a child like arguement. At least a short sighted and naive one. Under that system, most people are paying not only for their health care, but the health care of other people. Such as the ones like himself who don't work because he wants to leech off of others. Though I am sure he does work, and only plans on quiting to leech off of others in the future.
Its hard to call it free health care, when the vast majority of people are paying more than they would for private health care. How does increasing the cost of health care, help the average person? It clearly doesn't, but it isn't for the average person. Its for the welfare state, and wealth redistribution.
As for Ron Paul, you can't diss him. Even if you disagree with him, he is the only politician who speaks of the important issues facing our country, and he is the only one actually explains his plans in detail. When obama was there with a campiagn of, "Change, change change..." And had no substance behind his words, just a mantra he repeated over and over. Ron Paul was discussing he exact plans at length, in full detail. Even if you hate him you have to respect the transparency his campaign had. Everyone knows what he stands for, and what he would do.
It's done because we like to help those not as well off as ourselves, and we care about others, because that's how the human race is going to move forward. Also I don't work because I'm a student.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Also as far as childlike goes, I didn't say his argument was childlike, I said the way he was talking was like a teenager, which it was.
Goddamn. I usually don't get involved with politics much anymore, but this seems huge. I'm no Obama supporter by any means, his empty campaigning still leaves a sour taste every time I think about it. But if he can shut this down he'll have my support. If not...well this is the kind of legislation that makes me want to jump ship.
LMAO free healthcare? I live in Canada and I get taxed hardcore for the healthcare. I cant call it free, nothing is free and I agree with that. Either you pay the money for insurance companies or the government it is the something for the pay part.
Back on topic :
I cant believe American supreme court made that decision, this is absurd and ridiculous ! Politicians are gonna be bought off like prostitutes LMAO .... it was happening behind the scenes but now it is LEGAL LOL
Iunno what will happen with America but I lost all respect for that country... I cant believe people are so ignorant not to see that this is another start of a corrupted government. AMERICA WAKE UP ... STOP EATING MCDONALD's AND GO FKNG RESEARCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS : Democracy and republicans are now officially Bullshit. Corporations will rule the government point to that..
It would be nice if that was true, however it is not. If it was true, you would donate your extra money to charity or help others. No, it is more about stealing other peoples money and giving that away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
It is not nearly as generous when your using someone elses money.
The welfare system is built on the basis of equality. I don't think that's a bad thing, but you may. Taxation is not stealing, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
It is when you don't have a voice. Which goes straight to the orginal point of this topic. That because of the ruling people wont have a voice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
Yeah, I agree with you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
I'm absolutely disgusted by this ruling, but somehow not surprised in the least either.
It's not like this sort of thing hasn't been going on for ages...what bothers me is that now corporations don't even have to pretend to seem on the up-and-up. They get a free pass to do as they please. And no one even seems upset about it, as far as I can tell.
The Republican arguments I've heard for this nonsense are complete lunacy to boot; "but this will help the labor force hurdyhurr". Absolute cockshit.
Here's the ruling.
Gah. I need to go think about mushrooms and dancing animals for a while now.
The beast shows His true face. Why so mad guerrilla, did you forget the american government is a power cult? Now people will have to admit that our elections are just a ruse, as they have been for as long as I've been alive.
We need to completely revamp the electoral process if we want to continue on as a democratic country. Actually start being would be a more accurate phrase.
I am not so bothered by this. Maybe I should be, but the more people who get targeted by the inquisition the more resistance; maybe this shit can finally stop and we can have a society where law is not based in exploitation of fear.
Last night I had asked a friend of mine when he expected we'd see the world's
first corporate government. If this lasts, it's going to be an interesting turning
point in human history considering the already substantial power that
corporations wield. This new potential influence over the law is going to be
interesting, at the very least.
Buy your guns while you still can, folks.
Oh Capitalism, what have you done.
So I've been thinking about this a lot, and I remembered that I thought there was one possible benefit to all this. At the very very least, hopefully a greater portion of the population will be aware of how much corporations are contributing financially to the political process. Sure, there were ways to find this out before, but no one really seemed all that interested in knowing.
At least if corporations can do what they've already been doing, and do so without fear of the public finding out...well, hopefully people will start to notice, and hopefully that will sink in a little bit. Getting them thinking, for a change.
The thing that irks me the most is the continued correlation of corporations having the same rights as individuals. Really? How does this seem even remotely logical? There are many very obvious reasons why there should be limits placed on corporations that are not placed on individuals. Big business should be kept in check the same way government is supposed to be "checked and balanced" if you ask me.
If only one is, or neither are--for various reasons, i.e. the public just can't be bothered to care--there are way too many inroads for either one or both to become [either overtly or discreetly] the dominant influence on the political process. And in any case that benefits only the dominant. So sad.
I really just can't help getting so fired up about these things; it's not like I can't see them coming...but I just wish that made the eventual blow a little less upsetting.
:shakehead2:
its not capitalism that caused the crisis, its greedy corporatism that got us here, and idiotic central banks that kept inflating the money supply...capitalism is the solution not the problem, the federal reserve has limited the scope of real capitalism so for the past 97 years under their policies we have been under a quasi capitalism merged with greedy corrupt corporatism and the military industrial complex is one good example of the corporatocracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
also, the monkey in my sig is almost directly responsible for americas financial crisis. He increased the money supply by 80+ percent, more than the current ben bernanke character puppet of the bankers.
When the international bankers say jump obama says how high, just look at the recent re-nomination of ben bernanke by Obama and his failed central economic planning federal reserve system, a system which is destroying the country.
Why would wealthy corporations care about Republican principles? I thought you said Republicans are all a bunch of backward ass hillbillies. Are you saying rich corporate people with power are Republicans too? :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja9578
Hey, we might have a much greater degree of capitalism in the near future! Damn, a lot more jobs will be created and the standard of living will go up. That will empower poor people and make them no longer dependent on the Democrats. How sad for the Democratic Party! :cry:
In the case of multinational corporations, they don't really answer to anyone. I mean, other then their stockholders; but they're not constricted by one countries policies. The world economy and free market has become a tool to manipulate governments, so multinationals can steal their resources and cheap labour so that we over here in the Americas can pig out at the mall.
The appointed bodies...errr sorry not appointed, this isn't a democracy... to basically carry out these operations are the World Bank and many of it's sister organizations. They'll organize huge loans to these third world countries, under the name of "trying to help these people", but this money never goes to the poor of the country. It goes into infrastructure projects like hydroelectric plants, electric grids, highways, chemical processing plants, railways, airports, etc. Things only the rich of the country and multinational corporations will benefit from. Then these countries are left with mass debts, unable to pay them off because they're resources aren't going towards poverty reduction; it's all being exported to countries like USA etc.
Often when these countries can;t pay off these debts the the World Bank or IMF will offer structural adjustment plans (SAPS). These are basically to cut government subsidies for food, fuel, education, etc, which fucks the poor even more. They're forced to work for 25 cents a day making Nike shoes or Levi Jeans, whatever, you got it.
I can't stop worrying about the environmental implications of this.
I think the OP is a little bit off in his assumptions of what the supreme courts ruiling means for the political process. The ruiling didn't say that corporations can donate infinite amounts of money through campaign contributions, it just made it legal for corporations to spend as much as they want on political advertisements (like tv commercials) or movies. While this will obviously help certian political canidates, it is far from being the end-of-freedom bill that the OP was implying. Not to mention, This was actually a big win for freedom of speech advocates.
It's not the end-of-freedom, you're right.
But I firmly believe there are well-founded reasons for limiting how much any given corporation can spend on political advertising. Big money has been/is/always will be carbuncle in the side of any democracy; this just an open invitation in my opinion.
It's a sad fact, but there are people that pay a good deal of attention to political endorsements made on television. But it's also a sad fact that they are often skewed and/or a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Even more sad is that there are some people who rely on such things to make up their minds for them.
I'm ever the fan of free speech, but this ruling has a lot more complex implications than just that, I'm afraid.
Can the average person go out and spend even a fraction of what Exxon-Mobil can to speak to those people who only get their information from television? Absolutely not. Does Exxon-Mobil stand to gain a whole heck of a lot for spending that much? Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by commondreams
Truly, I'm sorry to sound so negative about this. Forgive me. This kind of thing just puts me in a mood.
:thinks postive thoughts: cuttlefish&blacklicorice.
I have to disagree with Olbermann's lack of faith in the internet. There are some pretty tricky bastards out in Cyberspace who will find ways to circumvent any censorship the government can impose.
Republicans are wrong about mushrooms but right about money.Quote:
Originally Posted by acatalephobic
corporations survive by making a profit, and by definition operate at the expense of the environment. they have been making so many decisions on our behalf for so long it's confusing as to why so little is done about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by acatalephobic
you would think patriotism is preventing this from happening and not picking up a gun to enforce your ideals overseas. the supreme court's decisions show how much they are an extension of the 'fox guarding the hen house' trend (as in, this is basically the same as ex-oil tycoons regulating the oil industry).
Fuck, you're all fucked.
Seriously, I don't know what goes through the average American's head sometimes. As for healthcare, that kind of ties in to it. Because it is corporations who run private health care, if you didn't realise that.
Government health care is THE best option we have in a monetary system. It's a proven fact. All the people saying it's not are republican's, or people who have been swayed by what republican's say. I just don't see how you can not see that. If corporations (insurance companies) basically own health care they can do whatever the fuck they want to you. Raise prices, decline treatment etc. etc.
With free health care the government cannot deny you treatment, it's as simple as that. And you only pay for what you need instead of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars which you might never spend which just goes straight to these corporate fucks who will buy the people you elect.
If you move to another country for a while, as a citizen, you will see how much better our health care is and realise you fucked up.
But yeah, basically you guys are fucked. Who wants to make a bet that judge was paid off?
The government does not do this already?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
The government does not do this already?Quote:
...instead of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars which you might never spend which just goes straight to these corporate fucks who will buy the people you elect.
They can't even run the post office, and you want them running healthcare. Smooth.
Yes, the government does those things in socialized healthcare countries. They pay the bills, so they make the rules. If a life saving medicine is too expensive for the government to feel like paying for it, BANNED! If too many people abuse the system of free goodies, WAIT IN LINE, BITCHES!! WE'LL GET TO YOU WHEN WE GET TO YOU!!!
There's always going to be lines if there's heaps of people needing treatment. Got nothing to do with who runs health care. Insurance companies aren't gonna set up hospitals and train doctors and nurses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
And no they don't do that already. If a treatment is proven, you get it. Simple as that. Yes the system has flaws, but America's system is WAY more flawed.
When stuff is free, people abuse it. Big time. Got a headache, why not go to the doctor? Your son has a toe ache, why not go to the doctor? You want pain pills because they're fun? Go to the doctor! You want to miss work, go to the doctor! You're feeling a little less than euphoric today? Go to the doctor! Why not abuse the system? What's in it for me?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
Um, when subjected to fear mongering ad campaigns a la America style people are likely to spend money no matter how much it costs.
Yes, people are scared of everything in this day and age. But America is the worst for this. And you are the people with the worse health insurance.
It's not a flaw of the health care system, it's a flaw of society and a failure to regulate bad information/pharma advertising.
So say that was fixed, no one is virtual hypochondriac anymore, we still have cheaper health care and yours' still sucks.
If "not free" is your definition of "sucks", then sure. But we have the best quality heathcare in the world. That is why celebrities and leaders from all over the world come here for surgery. We also lead the world in medical technological advancement. Capitalism is effective when it comes to quality and advancement.
What I said about abuse applies everywhere. That is why people have to wait in such long lines for life saving care in countries where medicine is socialistic. Imagine being in that nightmare.
Last I heard that waiting in lines applies everywhere. Especially in America due to lack of gun laws etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
As for quality, again, nothing to do with the actual system. Researchers just go to America because there's more money spent by government for research etc. For example stem cell research was pushed by an Australian in America. But yeah, nothing to do with the health care system.
Yeah, I'm going to read all that.
Seriously.
I was hoping you would quickly catch where it denies this...Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
Our lines are much shorter, and the expensiveness of a drug never keeps it from being legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
I wasn't talking about researchers, but we do attract those too because of the profit incentive involved in medical advancement.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
son of a bitch we're talking about healthcare now?
Any type of corporate contributions and lobbying should be banned...
Agreed. Also they spend way too much parading their asses around anyway.
From what I understand the supreme court reversed this decision this week....someone help me search for an article or confirmation (would be sweet if its reversed)
Guerilla's current sig: http://dreamviews.com/community/sign...ic17769_34.gif
Are those five of the clowns in the Barnum and Bailey Circus?