Thread: Banned Literature

Banning anything is ridiculous, really.

Depends on context. If we're talking outright "This book shall not be sold nor read in the United States" then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. However, if a school district has banned certain books from their curriculum then I can understand it. In the same respect, I could get behind the restriction of certain literature until an age requirement is met, as is done with movies. I had a 13 year old ask me if I've ever read Chuck Palahniuk's "Choke" once. I allowed as how I had, but immediately regretted it, as he tried to talk to me about the book. There are some things kids should have to wait to know about.

Of course it is wrong. Banning anything that can not cause anyone harm is wrong. Banning ideas are even worse. No matter how stupid or bad a book may be, it should never be banned.

Just to throw a wrench in the debate...

Mein Kampf (Hitler's autobiography) is banned in Germany. Is this acceptable now? Was it acceptable right after WW2 ended?

I have no opinion on the matter I'm just curious about people's responses.

I thought I was pretty clear. When I say its never acceptable I mean never. No circumstance is ever going to make me change my mind, because a book can't harm anyone.

Although I agree that a book should never be banned,

because a book can't harm anyone

I disagree with this. Books contain words, and words ideas. Has anyone not seen a person get hurt emotionally or psychologically through the use of words? Furthermore ideas can change the world. If that idea involves violence or forceful conversion to a given set of beliefs, a book can be very harmful in the hands of an irresponsible human being.

Ideas don't hurt people, only a person following the idea can. As for words hurting people. I think its a little silly to worry that someone might be hurt by what a book says. If it offends them they simply need to put the book down.

Banning said book won't stop the harm from coming, however; it will just force it to take another medium. Banning books isn't the answer to stopping anything except education. Education, on the other hand is a good way to ensure that the content of a book doesn't serve to do harm to people unchecked, if that makes sense.

I have quite a few books that are banned in various places around the world, and I enjoy all of them quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Alric

Ideas don't hurt people, only a person following the idea can.

The reaction going on in the brain in response to an idea is not entirely unlike the reaction that follows from eating bad food (or helpful medicine, if the corresponding idea is a good one). Those with more resilient physical qualities may withstand food poisoning better than others, and likewise those with better mental constitutions will not be as effected by persuasive ideas that promote violent behavior.

If you are referring to an idea's lack of consciousness in that it cannot make the choice to harm someone, then in the strictest sense you'd be correct and we could say that poison also does not harm people, and that medicine does not help people (but rather that it's the person choosing to take the medicine or give another person poison that does the harm). These are just formalities. The actual physical reaction (even neural activity in the brain) in a system can be detrimental to the larger system of which it is a part, regardless of choice or intent.

I don't think we should ban any drugs either. If you willingly take a drug, and you know its effect, then more power to you. Its your body do as you will. If you are not harming others, I have no reason to stop you.

If a person wants to read a bad book, by all means they should.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just to throw a wrench in the debate...

Mein Kampf (Hitler's autobiography) is banned in Germany. Is this acceptable now? Was it acceptable right after WW2 ended?

I have no opinion on the matter I'm just curious about people's responses.

Hehe, just last week we watched three of Goebbels propaganda movies, but
it was at the university and those are banned as well (Jud Süß, Kolberg and
Triumph des Willens) - and to be honest, I don't think it's right to just ban them.

These are important peaces for educational purpose.
Right after WW2 I can understand that they were forbidden, but now,
especially since national socialism is such an in depth discussed topic
in germany, I believe people should be allowed to view them, as they
should be allowed to read Goebbels books and Mein Kampf, just to see
what mechanisms were used to manipulate the people into a sick ideology.

Also: Media manipulation has become way more advanced now. I don't
think anyone would really be tricked by any of this stuff, since a lot of the
techniques are very clever, but not contemporary.

The responsibility lies with those who act on the literature.

Any law which tells you what you can't read is telling you that you do not have the reason or autonomy to decide whether or not something somebody is telling you is reasonable; as soon as somebody does this, they have reduced your status to that of a child.

If somebody tells you that black people are the devil incarnate and you decide to go out and kill a bunch of black people, that's your own lookout for being a goddamned idiot.

From a pragmatic standpoint there may be a few exceptions, but very few indeed. The banning of Mein Kampf in Germany is reasonable enough for example, as that country needed to make a clean break from its past, and the book in question is just a throughly vile, stupid and pointless piece of hate speech.

I think its clear that banning literature is wrong. Freedom of thought is, in my opinion, one of the most important of our freedoms.

I think that banning literature is an excellent idea, because the banned status is what makes some things so attractive.

No better way to spread the ideas in a book than to ban your people from reading it.

Originally Posted by WakataDreamer

I think that banning literature is an excellent idea, because the banned status is what makes some things so attractive.

No better way to spread the ideas in a book than to ban your people from reading it.

Only since the advent of the internet, hard to read a book that isn't in print .

As far as I know there is no such thing as a banned book in America! Sure, there are schools that ban books. But school is an educational setting and they have to make judgment calls when certain books start saying that the holocaust never happened.

I don't go to the library much, so I don't know how often libraries ban books or if thats right or wrong. I just know if there really is a book I want to read, I can probably find it on the internet.

I don't know about outside America. But I do know that the Vatican supposedly has plenty of historical, religious and cultural texts they are hiding!

Some schools have tried to ban books, though as far as I know, libraries are not allowed to ban books, and most carry even the bad ones.

I can't remember the quote, but Robert Anton Wilson once said something like, I want to thank the nuns(refering to the catholic school he went to) for telling me what books not to read.

Banning books just draws attention to them. The same is probably true with drugs and guns. By banning them they gain a new quality, which only adds to their level of appeal. I've talked to a few people who said that they probably wouldn't smoke weed if it was legal(this was when I was in high school). I always thought that this was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, but that doesn't make it untrue.

Banning something because it is "bad" or "evil" is probably the stupidest thing we as humans do. The only things I can think of that rival it are War and patriotism. If something is truly bad for you, explain why it is bad and people won't do it. But of course this isn't something that is actually bad for you, but rather something that might change the status quo.

Are there any books out there being banned that you are reffering to, Irken? If so, where in the U.S. is this happening?

Or else it's purely hypothetical. Which is fine, too.

I would disagree, Xei, that Mein Kampf should be banned even in Germany. Mainly because it's a dangerous precedent. I understand why you would think so, though. (But I don't have a problem with Germany's 'banning' since it is not actually illegal to read in Germany, nor own. Which I just now looked up and was surprised by- apparently it is simply illegal to print. Which is perfectly legal since the governemnt owns the copyright. Who knew?)

But what about a book like the anarchists cookbook, which enables otherwise ignorant people to create bombs and, (at the time,) hack systems?

Originally Posted by spockman

Are there any books out there being banned that you are reffering to, Irken? If so, where in the U.S. is this happening... But what about a book like the anarchists cookbook, which enables otherwise ignorant people to create bombs and, (at the time,) hack systems?

Nice I was hoping someone would bring up the Anarchist's Cookbook. No no particular books were being banned that inspired me write this. Actually I wrote this after seeing the South Park ad for their episode in which a book is taken off the banned books list and given to the students.

Maybe the Anarchist's Cookbook simply needs a disclaimer or something to deter people from going out and destroying shit. However banning it would only make it a cult icon. People would read it lots probably and some would even use it if they were stupid enough or disturbed in some way. At that point literature is not the problem itself but the patients own madness and at that point measures should be taken to help someone seeking to harm people out of extremist point of view. Though measures such as banning literature are completely wrong

To try and control people will make them curious of why they need to be protected, however to educate people will only help them.

Originally Posted by spockman

But what about a book like the anarchists cookbook, which enables otherwise ignorant people to create bombs and, (at the time,) hack systems?

With the internet, banning such underground texts is next to pointless.

When you are banning a something you are basically telling people they are to stupid or irresponsible to act as an adult, and so you have to decide for them, what is or is not acceptable. Which is why most people probably agree that its so bad to try banning things. Though our governments continue to try to ban things all the time.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just to throw a wrench in the debate...

Mein Kampf (Hitler's autobiography) is banned in Germany. Is this acceptable now? Was it acceptable right after WW2 ended?

I have no opinion on the matter I'm just curious about people's responses.

Well, considering in Germany, if you do research in the archives about the Holocaust and try to present findings that alter the official story in any way, you go bye-bye to jail.

Hitler would be proud?

Knowledge should not be banned. That is just ridiculous unless you are trying to control how people think.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

That is just ridiculous unless you are trying to control how people think.

Isn't that the point of banning a book in the first place?

It's a shame that the best method of control that is used to control the flow of information is banning the medium, making information impossible to get to, instead of educating how the information should be used so it doesn't impact people in the wrong way. I'm sure 99% of the population aren't going to stand up and start dictatorships if they read Mein Kampf, I'm sure that people aren't going to go all witchcraft on your ass if they had read Reginald Scot's Discoverie of Witchcraft back in the 1500's, and I'm fairly sure you won't have Christians abandoning religion if The Da Vinci Code wasn't banned in the Vatican.

When people are smart and know what is not homicidal, they could probably co-exist.